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who would win in a fight, an apbt or a caucasian ovcharka....

<< Back to: rec.pets.dogs: American Pit Bull Terriers Breed-FAQ, Part 2/3

Answer by macker
Submitted on 5/28/2004
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i never said all dogos are that way, you have to realise that there are different bloodlines just like pits, but a bit more extreme. Dogos love their families and will prtect them at all costs BUT they tend to have problems realizing that neiborhood children and small neighborhood pets arent something they can hunt, im talking about truly game bred dogos not the watered down version that are usually bred in the states which are very nice looking and usually very show wearthy but like i said waterd down that usually happens when a breed bgins to have popularity. i got my dogo in argentina because i travell alot due to my job so im all over SA but im from NY.Like i said your dog looks ok from a sheperd point of view its probably a great guard dog as most sheperd breeds but i doubt its a fighter. And about its fur , it is from the russian mountains so im guessing its fur is used to keep it warm not help it in dog fights retard.

Answer by unknown
Submitted on 6/6/2004
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Here... I've slightly changed the list... (All dogs are ranked as if they were GAME BRED) If the dogs are not game bred then the fights outcome can be unpredictable. Dogs that can fight... First Class - APBT - Tosa Inu Dogs that have GREAT potential to be first class� Between first class and second class - Dogo Argentino - Presa Canario Dogs that have little or no chance of beating the first class... Second Class - American Bandogge (APBT/Neapolitan Mastiff cross) - English Bull Terrier - American Staffordshire Terrier - American Bulldog - Bully Kutta - Fila Brasileiro Dogs that have GREAT potential to be second class� Between second class and third class - Neapolitan Mastiff - Mallorquin Bulldog (Ca De Bou) Dogs that have little or no chance of beating the second class... Third Class - Caucasian Ovtcharka - Cane Corso - Spanish Bulldog, and Spanish Alano (could be 2 breeds, or could be 1) - Gul Dong - Dogue De Bordeaux - Guatemalan Bull Terrier - Indian Bull Terrier - Staffordshire Bull Terrier - Akita Inu Dogs that have GREAT potential to be third class� Between third class and fourth class - Bullmastiff - Alaskan Malamute And finally dogs that have no chance or little of beating the third class but can still hold their own... The fourth class - German Shepherd - Doberman Pinscher - Rottweiler - Shar Pei - Wolf Hybrids - Chow Chow (yes, even the Chow Chow) - Most of the ovtcharkas - A few shepherds - Thai Ridgeback - Tibetan Mastiff, (and almost every other of mastiff origin that I didn't name, including the Boerboel and others) The Fourth Class can go on forever. It mainly consists of your most common, popular breeds that you think so highly of� Believe it or not, when it comes down to, pound for pound that's just how it is!

Answer by Babs
Submitted on 6/11/2004
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This is the most pathetic, uneducated, unintelligent topic that I have ever read and you people should be ashamed of yourselves. You sound like high school teenagers 'my dog is tougher than yours' Dogo's are big game hunting dogs CO's are flock guardians Pit's fighting dogs Tosa's are endurance fighting dogs You are comparing apples to oranges...to answer your questions put a pit into a CO's flock and see what happens to the pit. First off, you people need to do some serious research on breeds because you sound like fools, nevermind talking about fighting dogs. Most of the info here people posted is pure rubbish To the last post, it is Koochi which is not a Caucasian Ovcharka so please study up on that.

Answer by Babs
Submitted on 6/13/2004
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First of all, I understand that pits and Tosa's are fighters but you cant compare a Tosa fight in Japan to a pit fight nowadays. Tosa's are bred for endurance and to be silent etc...the fact is, who cares about dogfighting. Someone compared it to shamrock and boxing those are two adults who decided for themselves that they wanted to box or ultimate fighting. Animals in a natural enviroment are flight vs. fight. Humans have bred them to fight and molded them into what they wanted to. I dont care if you are from Pakistan, USA or China you are talking about dogfighting where insecure men have to prove themselves with their dogs. In regards to breath wasting, I am sure that you have done enough of that with these people...In Turkministan (sp) it is called Koochee, I have never heard it pronounced in other spelling and that is from people in their native country. Kochee is a subspecie at most from a CO...I stumbled upon this board by accident and I am sorry that I did. I will go back to my more educated, intelligent, molosser board.

Answer by khan
Submitted on 6/14/2004
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i've never really justified dogfighting. nor do i think that its right. dont judge ppl yu dont know. i just love fighting dogs . for their courage and determination. i admire them. as for ppl wanting to fight and animals not wanting to?. well , these particular animals love to fight. i know. any enthusiast would know. its in their blood. i'm not saying its right , but thats how they were bred. by ppl. its the breeders' fault. herding dogs love to herd. labradors love to retrieve. fighting dogs love to fight. and anyone who says they dont , does'nt really know them that well. its like , all books and sites on fighting breeds will advise "dont bring yur staffy or english bull terrier or pitbull puppy into a house where theres already another dog". do some research . yu'll find it everywhere. i too believe that dogfighting is cruel. but i just love fighting breeds. theyre not like other dogs. they have this fearless honor. and that is an admirable trait. and kuchi is still not an english word. and pakistan is a mix of several central asian as well as indian and persian cultures. and its just as much a pakistani term as it is turkmenistani. and like i initially said , i called it an "ovtcharka type" dog. y are yu so thick?.lol

Answer by Mike
Submitted on 6/21/2004
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Damn how do you come up with this stuff, where do you people get your information?? kindergarteners? Listen each dog gets its respect for what it does and can only be considered top dog at what it does. Any dog can beat any dog given the right situation. For example you throw in any dog no matter of what size, color, strength it doesn't matter. You throw it in the pit with a bred pit fighter (APBT, SBT, EBT, and a few other breeds bred to fight) and I guarantee you your dog's ass will get whooped. If you throw a pit fighting dog in the middle of a flock of sheep and lets say a caucasian ovtcharka is there I can "almost" guarantee the pit fighter will get it's but whooped becaused thats what the ovtcharka was bred for. You can't just compare these two dogs in your head, use logic people...

Answer by #1O.G
Submitted on 6/23/2004
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there is no way a pitt bull could beat a caucasian mountain dog.for example pitts were bred to FIGHT other dogs.caucasians were bred to KILL OTHER ANIMALS meaning wolfs,foxes,coyotes, what ever is a threat to the flock. if there is no flock to protect they naturally protect their owners or "family" from any threat. a small 65 lbs pitt with just its strong jaws as an advantage is no match for a caucasian. thunderhawk caucasians advertise their dogs of having the stopping power of a .45 caliber pistol. ive seen how aggressive they can get.pitts and caucasians are pretty equal when it comes to aggression but the brute size and strength will lead it to a victory over a pitt bull. the only thing a pitt could win over a caucasian is a popularity contest only because of its "bad reputation" research the caucasian yourself the numbers don't lie. if only more people knew about them and what they are capable of then their would be no doubters out there! you can't really judge a winner by its breed reputation alone you have to evaluate what the individual breeds are capable of. :)

Answer by jose
Submitted on 6/24/2004
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Thank u #10 G finnally some1 wit comman sence. The CO is an amazingly aggresive dog no matter what they need no training what so ever. Pitts need to be trained to fight u cant just throw a pit in the ring. CO will fight and win without any training just because they have been bred that way. Most dogs are either human or animal aggresive and not the best at both. the CO seas no diffrence he only sees a threat and his mission in life is to neutralize that threat and they will kill any pit that they see as a threat. so if the owner is there in the ring the CO will kill the pit and try to kill the ref and any bystanders just because he seas them as a threat. And by the way these dogs do not start biting right off. They rush their enemy and tackle them to the ground and then attack while the enemy is on its back not giving it chance to fight back!!! thats why they have the stoping power of a .45. i say they have the stoping power of a .357 magnum or a 12 guage. O and by the way the pits 2 advantages in this fight its jaw power and gameness would have no chance because the CO has plenty of fat and fur around its neck for protection and too much strength to overwellm the pit early not giving him a chance to fight a long fight using his gameness. SO in the end a CO would beat a pit in a fight no matter where it took place. Its like the rambo vs. rocky / the killer vs. the fighter and the CO or the killer would win!

Answer by Babs
Submitted on 6/25/2004
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Please be very cautious of Thunderhawk's dogs...Her CO's are not socialized well. I can give you the names of people that have paid for pups and never got them (with actual emails)...She is in the middle of divorce her dogs are kennel raised and new facotry russian lines....be very cautious of her. She actually made herself look like a fool on National Geographics episode of Designer Mutts. Part of the show was on old dog breeds and yes, they are one of the oldest breeds. Her dogs were uncontrollable and a poor representaion of CO's. I knew of her before and that show was the icing on the cake for her. Other people to be very cautious of is Anna Frumina (convicted puppymiller in PA), Eugene Zelynk and Yelena Levitina when it comes to the CO & CAS....BUYER BEWARE She has caused a lot of issues in the CO world....Approach with caution... CO's are NOT vicious man eaters. They are very protective and with proper training and socialization than can be great animals but they need a handler that is very familiar with LGD breeds

Answer by khan
Submitted on 6/28/2004
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okay all yu "caucasians would kill anything" ppl. , do u actually think a caucasian could kill a fighting molosser??...all molossers are heavier and stronger than the ovtcharka. and most are bred to fight. and kill!. what do u think would happen if the fight were allowed to go on???...do u think pit fighting is "play" fighting??...do u think pitbulls and bull terriers give a damn about the caucasians guarding instinct or any given situation they may find themselves in??...are yu ppl stupid??....lol...btw , kuchi is not an afghan nomadic tribe. lol...maybe yu should "read" more often. yu go and say that in afghanistan and they'll shoot yu dead and throw yu to the "dogs"...lol...the kuchis that is...lol

Answer by khan
Submitted on 7/1/2004
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almost 100% of dogfights in pakistan (especially when bully dogs are used) end in slight , superficial damage . theres so much loose skin around these dog's necks and bodies that the teeth really dont penetrate. plus big dogs just wrestle. their teeth are mostly blunt. yu come over here and watch a fight and u'll see what i mean. yes , it IS cruel to pit "bull and terrier" breeds against each other. and such breeds are rarely being used in this country at fights atleast. for this very reason. too much damage . but almost none are killed. owners end most fight after ten minutes to half an hour. but i'm not trying to say thats its "okay" in any way. just stating the facts. course its cruel and wrong. but theres a flipside to it. these dogs were bred for one purpose. its not their fault that they fight. it was the fault of their human breeders. but thats what they are. and if they are not allowed to fight every once in a while , they'll turn into vegetables. like the english bulldog. and whats a fighting dog that cant fight. y is it justified to use dogs on wild boars and not in fights?.y does'nt anyone talk about dogs throats "actually" being ripped out by boars etc .? y is that "sport"?

Answer by khan
Submitted on 7/2/2004
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larger dogs DO fight in that way. i have'nt just seen videos. i've seen the real thing , over and over and over again. and the damage dont by their teeth is mostly superficial. the dog that tires out or turns away , loses!.they almost "die" of exhaustion.lol. and they can be fought again and again. throughout the season. bull and terrier breeds do so much damage to each other that they cant be fought more than once or twice in a few months. they cut through the larger dogs , given the chance. some owners think the larger dogs will eat their lil terriers alive , cuz of the roughing up.(and the size difference). and pull their dogs out prematurely and are hence , "beaten"!..lol...let it go the distance , and if yu got a good dog , just see what happens. the larger dog wont know where to run to.

Answer by mike A.K.A. fun man
Submitted on 7/3/2004
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In detroit i know a few people looking for the ultimate dog have imported CO's from russia, they have decided to fight them of course for the money. Many pit fighters will not allow them in the ring because they are a risk to the audience and the ref. Its a done deal the CO wins in this fight im sorry. and no these dogs dont have blunt teeth and no they dont tire easilly, these are flockguardians and bred killers, the have great stamina and will keep coming until the "threat" is dead or until they are restrained physically!!! Babs i own a apbt from fighting lines although i dont fight him. all my brothers have deep roots into the fighting world because they breed and fight themselves, so naturally i think i would know things on this subject. I myself own a very game and dog aggresive pit and i myself doubt he could win against a CO although i would never give him the chance to. If you are very iterested in the subject call a CO breadr and ask for a tape. I know thunderhawk CO's sell tapes of their dogs at work. As some1 said before its like rambo(CO) vs. rocky(pit) was was ment to fight, the other was ment to kill, who do u think would be the winner?

Answer by khan
Submitted on 7/4/2004
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hey detroit , what about a CO vs. a sindhi bully dog.?? and btw , like i said before , pit fighting is not play fighting. bull terrier breeds fight to kill. they dont just fool around. maybe , in the few fights yu've witnessed , the pits were inexperienced with long haired dogs and did'nt know how to get thru that particular obstacle. in pakistan , ppl often hear of the odd koochee beating a bull breed. cuz the dog could'nt find a hold. but any experienced bull terrier finds its hold and takes the message home. there is more dogfighting in pakistan than in any other country in the world. i've not only seen em all , i've been "in" em. fighting dogs run in the family. i attend major fights across the country every year. no one in their right mind , pits a koochee (ovtcharka cross , afghan variety) against a good fighting bull terrier or bully dog. no one!