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[l/m 9/7/2004] High tech employment, a romantic notion DW (25/28) XYZ

( Part1 - Part2 - Part3 - Part4 - Part5 - Part6 - Part7 - Part8 - Part9 - Part10 - Part11 - Part12 - Part13 - Part14 - Part15 - Part16 - Part17 - Part18 - Part19 - Part20 - Part21 - Part22 - Part23 - Part24 - Part25 - Part26 - Part27 - Part28 )
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Panel 25

See reader questions & answers on this topic! - Help others by sharing your knowledge
So you want a job in the backcountry?
What are you doing in computers?
Don't expect to find anything in
GO visit a job placement office.

	4. There are many senses of the word "wealth," not all of them material.
	I'm not talking about trying to make a deep philosophical point here
	about which is the true kind.  I'm writing about one specific rather
	technical sense of the word "wealth."  What people will give you money
	for.  This is an interesting sort of wealth to study, because it is the
	kind of that prevents you from starving.  And what people will give you
	money for depends on them, not you.

	When you are in a business, it's easy to slide into thinking that
	customers want what you do.  During the Internet Bubble I talked to a
	woman who, because she liked the outdoors, was starting an
		"outdoor portal."
	You know what kind of business you should start if you like
	the outdoors?  One to recover data from crashed hard disks.

	What's the connection?  None at all.  Which is precisely my point.
	If you want to create wealth (in the narrow sense of not starving)
	then you should basically be skeptical about any plan that centers on
	things you like doing.  That is where you idea of what's valuable is
	least to coincide with other people's.
	Hackers & Painters
	Chapter 6 How to Make Wealth
	Paul Graham

This is a common "romantic" idea.  At this stage, the probability of
mixing computers and the outdoors is very remote.  Like the idea of
being a fire lookout or ranger or someting else?  Just telling you
the odds (1000:1 is common).  It helps to have a background in some outdoor
field: geology, forestry, botany, biology, surveying, aerial photo
interpretation, driving trucks, law enforcement, etc.  The work is at times
"back breaking," hot, hard, and sweaty.  Sound discouraging?  Intentionally.
I want to dissuade you from marginal ideas.  Why?  Because these organizations
need real hard working people.  It's scary work in cases.  Consider this
because I've had friends recently lose homes in Santa Barbara, that's a
very real thing, and they need people who realize this on fire lines.
You can't hesistate in that environment.

Next, if you are seeking a summer job with someone like the US Forest Service,
if you are reading this anytime after Feb. 1, you are most likely out of luck.
You need a Standard Form 171 from the US Government.  These jobs come
in the 1s and 2s odds tend to be in the 1:1000.  Pay is low.  Jobs like
these do not involve sitting around.  You must have excellent eye sight,
also remember that most fire towers are lightning rods.  Maybe smoke
jumping?  CA Department of Forestry?

Hints: depending in region, if you are on quarter system, take Spring Qtr. off.
The earlier they can get you the better.
Law enforcement skills for many of these jobs help.
There are sometimes the odd cases of someone not showing.

There is summer camp conuseling and guiding requires some very good skills,
a wide-range of experience, etc. for firms like NOLS, OB, YMS, etc.
If you are young, you have some disadvantages.
Working for a guide service, such services select their staff the year before.
Apprenticeship is typically in order first.
Guiding in National Parks and Forest requires a concessionare's permit.
It's illegal to "simply" guide on public lands.

Other examples of high tech work: snow hydrology (much harder than
backpacking, competition for jobs, extreme avalanche danger [most
resignations]), glaciology (naw, no future), field biologist, field geologist
(petroleum and mineral exploration, compromise environmental values?),

From: John Cooley <johnc@csupwb.ColoState.EDU>

A backcountry job

Actually, one job is commonly available on a very part-time basis, mostly in
the western US. You can become a wildland firefighter. 

An example of how to get started:
The Larimer County Sheriff's Department (Northern Colorado) gives an annual
one-week training for people wishing to acquire a "Red Card", which means
they are supposedly qualified wildland firefighters.  The training given in
Larimer County is 32 hours (1991), and basically qualifies you to operate a 
shovel or a pulaski under the direction of someone else, and, with luck, stay 
out of trouble.  Written and physical tests are given.  The physical requires 
that you be able to run 1.5 miles in 12 minutes.  They don't like their 
firefighters dying because of heart attacks.

After you do all this, you can be placed on call to fight wildland fires.  If
there are no fires, you don't work.  If you can't be reached, you don't work.
If you are doing something else, you don't work.  If all goes well, ("well"
being a relative term here) you get to go to a fire, get hot and filthy, and
risk your life for the princely sum of $8.33/hour.  

It's fairly easy to get started in the wildland firefighting business.  Contact
your local Emergency Services agency (Sheriff's Department, Forest Service,
etc.) and find out about training. They like to have people up to speed by the
beginning of June, so find out what's going on by the beginning of March, at
the latest.  If you stay with it, you can actually make a career out of it, and 
you'll have some amazing and unusual experiences.
The Department of the Interior Automated Vacancy Announcement System
(AVADS) provides electronic access to notices of job opportunities in
the Department.

TABLE OF CONTENTS of this chain:

25/ A romantic notion of high-tech employment		<* THIS PANEL *>
26/ Other news groups of related interest, networking
27/ Films/cinema references
28/ References (written)
2/ Ethics
3/ Learning I
4/ learning II (lists, "Ten Essentials," Chouinard comments)
5/ Summary of past topics
6/ Non-wisdom: fire-arms topic circular discussion
7/ Phone / address lists
8/ Fletcher's Law of Inverse Appreciation / Rachel Carson / Foreman and Hayduke
9/ Water Filter wisdom
10/ Volunteer Work
11/ Snake bite
12/ Netiquette
13/ Questions on conditions and travel
14/ Dedication to Aldo Leopold
15/ Leopold's lot.
16/ Morbid backcountry/memorial
17/ Information about bears
18/ Poison ivy, frequently ask, under question
19/ Lyme disease, frequently ask, under question
20/ "Telling questions" backcountry Turing test (under construction)
21/ AMS
22/ Babies and Kids
23/ A bit of song (like camp songs)
24/ What is natural?

The following section will likely get thrown out with Jerry's new volunteering
panel (10).

Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1993 20:55:38 -0500 (EST)
From: "Jerry M. Wright" <>
Subject: Backcountry jobs

A couple of comments on backcountry jobs from someone who used to be
in wildlife management.  I moved on to neurobiology and biophysics.
The pay is better, more jobs are available and the work is much easier.

Are you independently wealthy?  For many professional jobs you are in
competition with people who are and are well qualified to boot.  There is
something nobel about dedicating one's life to reestablishing an endangered
species, restoring habitat, establishing a park, etc. that attracts this

Do you have a skill that you can use to support yourself
in between jobs?  Will your family support you during periods of 
unemployment?  Will your family support you after you get the job?  The
entry pay scale is low.  I know of several rangers collecting food stamps.

Realize that many permanent jobs in the backcountry require lots of
experience.  That means lots of years working seasonal jobs such as
waterfowl banding to get the experience.  One resouce ranger I know in
Hawaii worked nine years as a seasonal employee before a permanent
position opened.  He was a commercial fisherman in the off seasons.
The same holds for most wildlife/resource management positions.  A good
park/forest manager will sometimes manage to open a job at just the right
times for someone they know is skilled and works well with the other 
people already employed.  However, this requires the manager knows you
exist and can perform which takes us back to several years ofseasonal

Also, realize that your purpose is not to live in the backcountry 
and dust the scenery but to deal with humans who impact the resource.  Not
all people are cooperative about this either.  Poachers by definition are
usually carrying guns and object to being stopped.  You can be mauled
by a mining company with a mad dog lawyer - court room battles can 
be just as deadly as a duel except the dying takes longer.  Certification
by the National Wildlife Federation as a wildlife professional requires 
college level courses in law enforcement and public speaking in addition
to fundamental course work in biology/ecology.

I strongly recommend that folks interested in backcountry work do some
volunteer trail building/maintainance work first to check out what is 
really involved physically.  You get to talk first hand with the 
rangers and managers who just might remember your name on a seasonal
application or even be willing to give you a reference.  This can also 
give you some real insight on the job market.  The American
Hiking Society has quite a few 10 day trips you can sign up for.  Cost 
is $40 plus transportation to the site.  They require good physical
condition and extensive backpacking experience.  If you can't meet 
these qualifications, why are you look for a job in the backcountry?
The Adirondack Mountain Club also has trail maintainance trips from 1 
day to 5 days and sometimes 10 days.  Again nominal cost.  I guarantee
that 5 days in the Adirondacks wrestling with basalt rocks in cold rain,
knee deep mud, and black flies will temper noble ideas.


Sometimes it is necessary to grab the bull by the tail and 
face the situation.

Department of Interior WWW Automated Vacancy Announcement System


Looking for an H-912 (container).



Looking for an H-912 (container).

User Contributions:

Bad weather scuppers Russian President's flypast as he stages Victory Day show of marine corps power

Putin the actual glitz: gorgeous Russian soldiers take centre stage (moreover selfies) At massive wining Day parade of 13,000 troops, Tanks and rockets as Moscow strongman warns the lessons of WW2 'are relevant once again'Vladimir Putin forced to cancel military flypast over Red Square at the last minute over fears of bad weatherThreat of thunder and cloud over Moscow saw the huge Victory Day display of military powergroundedDespite cancellation Russian president pledged to 'guarantee the high drives of our armed forces'By Chris Dyer For Mailonline and Will Stewart In Russia and Afp and Reuters

issued: 10:14 BST, 9 May 2019 recently: 18:10 BST, 9 probably 2019

Russian lead designer Vladimir Putin took a defiant tone at Moscow's annual military Victory Day parade in Red Square, Declaring that the country continues to strengthen its armed forces.

The Kremlin strongman observed on as 13,000 troops and more than 130 pieces of weaponry were paraded through the capital in a show of Russian military power.

discussing his country's battle with Nazi Germany, Putin then warned 'the lessons of the past war are relevant once again' as he made his case for 'guaranteeing the high faculties of our armed forces'.

Russia's ties with the West soured correct its annexation of Crimea from Ukraine in 2014, And Moscow has continued to challenge the nation through its staunch support for Syrian President Bashar al Assad and Venezuela's President Nicolas Maduro.

Among the hundreds of pieces of military hardware paraded in front of veterans and dignitaries was Russia's Yars mobile global nuclear missile launcher and its advanced S 400 air defence missile system, Which Moscow has deployed in Syria guard its forces and Putin's new 120,000 4.4 lite V 8 ragtop limousine.

have been also regiments of glamorous female soldiers on display who were pictured smiling as they filed past Mr Putin.

It also included military equipment, Ranging from a T 34 tank renowned for its toughness in World War II to lumbering Yars ICBM launch units, Ground to air rocket missile parts and Russian Armata tanks.

Russian female military servicemen march during the Victory Day parade on Red square in Moscow on Thursday afternoon

Smiling Russian naval cadets were pictured marching in perfect step as they filed past Putin the actual Victory Day parade

Russian Armata tanks roll down Red Square the particular Victory Day military parade to celebrate 74 years since the victory in WWII in Red Square in Moscow

Russian Ground Forces commander in Chief, Colonel common Oleg Salyukov salutes the troops from Putin's new 120,000 collapsible limousine during the Victory Day military parade today

Russian President Vladimir Putin delivers a speech face to face with St. Basil's Cathedral during the Victory Day parade i which he pledged to'guarantee the high performance of our armed forces'

Russian Yars RS 24 intercontinental ballistic missile systems roll through Red Square during the Victory Day military parade in downtown Moscow today

Vladimir Putin kisses his class teacher at school Vera Gurevich during a certified reception marking 74 years since the victory in WWII, doing Kremlwearing

Russian military law enforcement stand in formation [url=]single ukraine ladies[/url] during a Victory Day Parade in the city of Grozny, Chechen Republic

Former Soviet chief Mikhail Gorbachev (core) Is in the middle of his assistants as he arrives to attend the Victory Day military parade in Red Square today

Crowds of people carry portraits of their relatives who fought in World War II as they have fun playing the Immortal Regiment march on Tverskaya Street in Moscow

Russian Pacific Fleet leader, Admiral Sergei Avakyants compares the troops in a vintage car during the Vi (...)
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