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An Sampler - part 1 of 3

( Part1 - Part2 - Part3 )
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Archive-name: alt-support-depression/An-ASD-Sampler/part1
Posting-Frequency: bi-weekly
Last-modified: 1999/3/29
Maintainer: Stewart/sna <>

See reader questions & answers on this topic! - Help others by sharing your knowledge
               An Sampler


Is this an "official" post of some kind??
	No.  This is *not* an official post of
(ASD).  This post (in 3 parts) has been approved by the moderators of the
*.answers usenet newsgroups.  Approval by the moderators of the *.answers
newsgroups means that;
(1) these posts can appear on the moderated usenet newsgroups, news.answers
and alt.answers
(2) these posts will be archived on the anonymous FTP server
(3) these posts can be "autoposted" using a FAQ server run by

Is this some kind of FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)??
	Over the 2 years that I have been reading,
there have been many discussions about what should or should not be posted,
and about what this group is or is not.  On several occasions people have
suggested that a FAQ be formulated to put down on paper (as it were) the
expectations that members of this group have of each other.  I am sorry,
and happy, to say that I have not been able to compile such a document.  If
this is a FAQ, then it is a very unconventional FAQ.  Aside from the
FAQ-style Questions and Answers here in the beginning of this post, that
explain what this post is and is not, the rest of this post does not
conform to the usual FAQ format.

If this is not a FAQ, then what the heck is it??
	This Sampler is an attempt to collect some
of the simple expressions of personal experience that make (ASD) such an important place.  This Sampler cannot
be all things to all people.  Most of the posts to ASD will never find
their way into this Sampler simply because this is only a *very* small
"sample" of what is posted to ASD, and because so much of ASD simply does
not fit into this very limited and constrained format.  Anything less than
the whole of every single post to ASD reflects the hand of whomever chooses
to sift and winnow through the 300+ posts that find their way to ASD each
day.  Thus this Sampler reveals as much about myself and my own personal
values, as it does about ASD and the people who participate here.
	Although I sometimes find life very painful, I personally do not
really want to die.  But to leave ASD is to die here in metaphor.  So, when
I leave ASD, I would like to leave behind a little bit of myself so that I
might somehow live on.  I thought this list might be a good way to do that.
Perhaps this Sampler can act as an "indirect FAQ by example" for ASD.  In a
way, I guess this Sampler provides an indirect and rambling answer to the
question "what is this newsgroup all about".  The real and complete answer
to this question, however, cannot be contained in any summary, digest, or
sampler.  The real answer to this question can only be found in the
statement "this group is what we make it when we post to it".  The real
answer to this question can only be found here on ASD each and every day.

If I don't have a post in this list, does it mean all of my posts are
	No.  Absolutely not.  As I said above, this is only a *very* small
sample of ASD, and most of ASD simply does not fit this format.  In
addition, about 90% of the entries here were chosen by me.  So if your
words are not found in this Sampler, then it likely means that *I* did not,
for whatever random or twisted reasons, pick out something that you have
said.  I really wish you would nominate something you said.

If I don't have a post in this list, does it mean that I am worthless??
	No.  Absolutely not.  See the answer to the question above.

Is this list static, or set in stone??
	No.  It is my personal belief that this ASD Sampler is only useful
if it continues to be updated by those who read ASD.  Not only is the
content of this list modified by what people say on ASD, but even the very
name of this list has been modified based on feedback from readers.  If you
have read or said something that you think should be included here then
please submit it to me by e-mail (  If you are not the
person who posted what you submitted to me, then I will try to contact the
original "owner" of the post and ask them if they mind that we include
their words in this list.

Where can I find a "real" FAQ for ASD??
	There are other informal FAQ-style posts that appear on ASD from
time to time.  However, the only FAQ-style post that is currently approved
by the moderators of *.answers for posting on ASD is the
" FAQ" (in 5 parts).  This FAQ is very informative
with respect to depression, but it contains relatively little information
related specifically to ASD.  For more information related specifically to
ASD, you should check out as a resource.

What is up with the SPAMBLOCK. in all the e-mail addresses??
	I have been getting more unsolicited e-mail (SPAM) than I care to
receive.  I am sure that a lot of it is because jerks use programs to
"harvest" return e-mail addresses from the "headers" of usenet posts.
Although I do not think that such programs harvest e-mail addresses from
the "body" of usenet posts, I have added the term "SPAMBLOCK." to each
e-mail address.  If you want to respond to someone who posted something
that is in this list, you will need to manually remove the "SPAMBLOCK."
from the address.

2, 4, 6, 8, who do we appreciate??
	If it is not obvious, I want to thank all of those who have
consented to have their words placed here.  In addition, I want to thank in
advance anyone who responds and gives me feedback of any kind.  If you find
anything on this list that you do not like for any reason, please let me

So where is this ASD Sampler already??
	It starts right below.  It is in three parts, with the oldest
quotes first and more recent quotes at the end of the third part.

   An Sampler,  part 1 of 3


Kimma Rock <> wrote:
	Like my ideas, feelings, opinions, and actions are somehow invalid
or otherwise compromised because I was in the loony bin, or because I have
faulty brain chemistry and an American Tourister showroom full of baggage.

John Timothy <> wrote:
Subject line: A message from your mother
	It's a lovely day outside!!  Would you PLEASE stop spending so much
time at that computer.  Why don't you at least take a little walk, get some
fresh air?  A little physical activity wouldn't hurt you.  Don't forget to
wear your jacket!!

Cindi James <> ended a somewhat harsh response with:
	Cindi pulling on her flame retardant leather undies.

Sslasher <> wrote:
	Ever been told you're "overqualified" for the position available?
Now what the fuck is that supposed to mean, and what can you possibly say
in return?  "Oh, don't worry, I'm much dumber than my resume makes me out
to be?"

William Reynolds wrote:
	Today I feel ill, dizzy, and weak, my guts in turmoil.  And while
I'm reasonably certain this is so, I wonder if my head has directed my body
to misbehave.  There is plenty to be angry about these days and I cannot be
sure if it is swallowed food or swallowed anger that has made me ill. wrote:
	Over and over again the Bible says, "Believe in God, and you will
see good things happen."  The Bible has it completely backwards, I think.
A true profession of faith is, instead, "See good things in what happens,
and you will believe in God!"  Religious beliefs ask us to celebrate the
good things in life.  To seek them out, and enjoy what pleasures we can
while we are alive.  Thus, the proper prayer of thanksgiving is not, "Thank
you God, for all of the great things in my life", but rather, "Thank you,
God, for giving me the ability to enjoy what pleasures there are in my

Sslasher <> wrote an opinion on how to avoid a flame war:
	If someone says "I think shock therapy is so great that everyone
should try it", and you don't agree, the proper response ought to be;
"Many people have had a bad experience with shock treatment and it is not
for everyone".  One should NOT say;  "You are obviously the product of 200
years of inbreeding, and you are a moronic insensitive clod who should take
your asinine opinions elsewhere".

APsychoS <> wrote:
	I will send you directions on how to assemble these lights along
with a materials list and directions for use.  I am a Clinical Psychologist
with 10 years experience treating SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder).  Send
$5.00 along with a stamped, self addressed envelope to.... Timothy) wrote in response:
	Of course, you COULD just post that info here on ASD and let
everybody have it for free, but I guess that wouldn't be the American way,
would it?   <sigh>

Alan Harding <> has been known to use the following
signature file:
	The opinions given above may be mine.  They might also just be what
I feel like saying right now, okay?

"David N. Brock" <> posted the following to several
support groups:
	Available for your inspection.  A medical emergency I.D. card that
could save your life.  For complete information go to . . .
"Nicole" <> responded with:
	I want a card that says  "No, I really mean it this time.  Please
leave me alone."

Cindi James <> used the following sig file "from the land of
reduced expectations":
	Life is good.  My toilet hasn't overflowed once today.

"Barb Toews" <> wrote:
	Am I asking for suggestions or advice?  I suppose.  Whatever I get
will be stored away in my mailbox for those furtive moments when I have the
energy to read and respond to them.  Mostly, I am just glad for a newsgroup
where I can beak off and blurb it all out and that's okay.

Jane <> wrote:
	I managed to crawl out of the lowest level of hell, step-by-step,
stair-by-stair, memorizing each mural on the wall of each level of Hell.  I
finally made it out.  But describe to me the picture that you see and I
will tell you what level of Hell you are in.  It took *that* long for me to
get out.  So, here, I am.  Hopeful for all of you, knowing that there is an
end to the madness and darkness.

John Timothy < > responded to a question about the DSM4:
	The DSM4 is a big fat book that your public library probably has.
However, if you're trying to diagnose yourself, you might want to get a
second opinion.  Like, sit down with a therapist AND the book.  That way,
you're not totally dependent on the discrimination and judgment of someone
whose critical faculties MAY be impaired by a mood disorder.  If you know
what I mean.

The Black Knight <> wrote:
	But what do you do when people complain to you?  Do you say, "Well
geez, sorry, but I was so fucking depressed that I couldn't stand the
thought of dealing with you and all the shit that accompanies it"?

The Black Knight <> wrote:
	My Doc is just so fucking out of it!  She says to me, "I wish I had
your intelligence."  Yeah, well, you get depression along with it, free of
charge!  Don't you get it, stupid?  The two are interrelated, intertwined.
Then I get, "well, it sounds to me like you're being a little
self-pitying."  Well, fuck-you-very-much, Doctor.  Until you've gone
through the hell of depression, don't fucking talk to me about self-pity,
you complacent bitch!  She is so fucking smug and self-righteous.
"Aldo J. Tartaglini, Ph.D." <> wrote in response:
	Doctors who address patients in an insensitive manner are in need
of remedial supervision.  If finding another doctor is not feasible for you
at this time, you should let your doctor know how angry her comments make
you.  She works for you.  She needs to learn how she can be most helpful to
you.  A supervisor once told me "patients are the best supervisors".  By
this he meant that the patient knows him/herself better than the doctor
ever will and can therefore provide crucial information and clues that can
maximize the doctor's chances of effectively assisting the patient.  The
doctor-patient relationship is much more of an equal partnership than some
doctors may care to admit.  They need to be reminded of this from time to

James Houck <> wrote:
	This is my first post.  Not just my first post here - my first post
ever . . . . I'll share my personal beasts but not first thing.  It is, I
suppose, impolite to let one's own personal beasts out to play with other
peoples personal beasts without an initial round of introductions.

<> wrote:
Subject: Depressed about fat and/or ugly chicks
	I'm new to this group and I am depressed because all I see are fat
and/or ugly women.  Don't laugh!  Women have really let themselves go over
the past 20 years!  Don't they realize that men are really getting
depressed over about it?  This is a very serious issue so please be serious
with me.  Men now have to compete against each other for the very few slim,
attractive women that are out there.  This leads to depression.  If all
women would take care of themselves we can rid ourselves of this type of
<> responded with:
	And the Armenian judges give it a 5.6 on the Olympic Troll-O-Meter!
<> responded with:
	More like 9.95.  What a jerk!
<> responded back with:
	The Armenian judges lodge a formal protest!  It was sufficiently
trollish, of course, but way too obvious.  It was poorly written, poorly
executed, and was so incredibly lame as to lack the true drawing power of a
really masterful troll.  Maybe as high as a 5.9 for the sheer stupidity of
the premise, but a 9.8?  Never!  The Armenian judges tear their hair out,
throw their balalaikas down in dismay, and perform the traditional Armenian
Dismay Chant!  They demand a recount!
	Editors note:  In the meantime, this one post generated over 100
responses in it's thread alone, not to mention spawning several other
threads that had their fair share of responses.  Seems like it was an
ineffective trolling device in theory, but quite effective empirically.

anna wrote:
	I think of ASD as a great big house, with all you guys in it.  Like
a commune.  People are hanging out together, talking in groups or to me.
Some people are in a room with the door closed, talking together, helping
each other in ways I don't know about.  And I wander through the rooms and
corridors, stopping, listening, moving on if there's nothing I can
contribute, but always, *always*, glad to be here.
	Some people or conversations I avoid.  Some people are mean, or
abrupt, and I am vulnerable.  Some conversations scare me, or worry me, or
are too high-brow for me to understand.  Some people I'm afraid I can't say
anything to.  Some people here are so far *out there*, are so close to the
edge, in such agony that I am helpless, and I feel that I, with my trifling
experience, would hurt more than I could help if I were to try to touch.
Others here are far more skilled at caring, listening and supporting than I
am, but I'm learning.
	And other people, who have been around longer than I have, I'm a
bit in awe of, maybe a tiny bit scared of.  I feel privileged if they
respond to my posts, and I look up to them like I used to look up to the
big kids in the school playground.  I blush and feel awkward when I speak
to them.  I feel most at home with fellow newbies, because I know that they
probably feel as lost as me, and are probably as desperate for a friend as
I am.
	In this house (the ASD house), moods change with the day of the
week and the time of day.  Friday and Saturday nights there's a party mood.
People stay up too late, and don't make sense, and have to be told to go to
bed.  But as soon as they've gone off to bed, the early shift is up.
Sitting in their dressing-gowns, rubbing their eyes, drinking coffee (as I
see them).  Catching the tail end of the night-time conversations and
carrying on.  There is always life in this house, and always love.  If I'm
in tears, someone will always make us coffee, pull up a chair and put their
arm round me.  If I'm angry, someone will help me snort and fume in a fury
of indignation.  If I'm happy, someone will always share it, and I can
always double it by giving some (I hope) to someone else.  And you guys,
who are so real.  Your words turn into three dimensional human beings who
talk to me and tell me what I need to hear.
	Why don't I meet people like you guys in real life?  Maybe I do,
but we just don't recognize each other. wrote:
	I wondered if the group would be willing to let me be the escrow
agent for the two cents that are posted every day on ASD?  Right now, I
think I've collected about 18 cents and I'm sure that there is more to
come.  Pennies add up, ya know. wrote:
	You need to be a member?  How do I apply?  What are the requirements?
Editors note:  Shit, am *I* a member??  How do *I* apply??  What are the

Michael Leatherman <> wrote by way of qualifying his own
	My judgment CAN get a bit screwy from time to time!
Alan Harding <> responded with:
	Along with "your mileage may vary" (YMMV), this has to be one of
the universal truths around here.

Stewart/sna <> wrote in response to a newbie
delurk post:
	Welcome to the group.  Heard you loud and clear.  Care to tell us
more??  We are like one big poorly trained therapist with 1000 eyes,1000
hands, and 1,000,000 stupid ideas.  But we are FUCKING FREE.  Ain't that a

Cindy Van Camp <> wrote:
	My youngest son had his tonsils out.  I took him home and a few
hours later, he stopped breathing.  Called 911 after trying to revive him
myself.  I have never felt so helpless in my life.  The paramedics saved
him.  He is fine now.  He had a delayed reaction to the codeine they gave
him for pain.  My baby.  I will never take my kids for granted again!!!
Stephen Valianatos <> responded with:
	This only goes to show I was right about mentally ill people not
being able to handle the responsibilities of children, you should put your
babies up for adoption if you love them.  But then again, your babies are
probably mentally ill because of your behavior, and no one would want them
anyway.  It is clear you have no business raising children in your
	Editors note:  You can bet this response from Stephen generated a
lot of angry mail.  It is included in this Sampler, not because there is a
single appropriate, good, or funny response to it, but rather because ASD,
Cindy, and even Stephen continue despite it.

Ruby <> wrote in response to a troll:

meerkat <> wrote the following after reading this Sampler:
	Hey !!  Everything that I write is a priceless pearl of infinite
wisdom.  All of my words should be written down on parchment and engraved
in stone for posterity.

Dart <> wrote:
	I am glad that you find solace in your religion.  However, having
been brought up in the same faith, and having been depressed since
childhood, I find that I have no faith in *your* god.  I take no blame for
the mental state I am in.  I've been told that *HE* gave it to me, as a
test.  I am not Job.  I have test anxiety.  I was *BORN* like this.

Joseph F. Salerno Jr. <SALERNO@USA1.COM> wrote:
	How do I use this??
Virginia Lore <> responded as follows:
	With interest, with honesty, with humility, with playfulness.  You
can rant, rave, or crawl cautiously below the crossfire.  You can pool your
wit and wisdom with ours, take what you need, add back when you've got some
extra.  You can come and go at will, hug and poke and handshake.  Try an
experiment, throw out a line and see what comes back.

Diane Wilson <> wrote:
	There is a difference between sacrifice and codependency.
Sacrifice is a gift.  Codependency is demanding that the gift be
appreciated. wrote:
Subject:  I ejaculated today
	I am so excited!  I have not been able to come in months, since I
started taking my antidepressant.  It used to take me so long to cum that I
just would not bother.  Today, I tried for the first time in weeks and Wow!!
Editors note:  So sue me.  I am a man and I could relate to this.

PitWithAVu <> wrote in response to a post about
parental love:
	Wow, how fortunate for you to be from such a home.  I don't think
(if you asked them) that any of our parents would say they don't love us.
But generally, parents love a child and express their love in a way that is
meaningful to *them* (the parents).  However, what the child needs is love
expressed in a way that is meaningful to the *them* (the child).

Barb <> responded to a post about "ESSENTIAL OILS AND
	Please take your "essence of spam" and....<bleeeeeeeep!!!>

Cheryl Shipman <> wrote:
	For those of us that are practicing opening up, ASD can be a less
frightening and less risky place than "real life".  After all, if I decide
this post is too revealing of me, I can always delete it without sending
it.  And knowing that leaves me brave enough to finish it, and then, what
the heck . . . let it go out there.

Lioness <> wrote in support of Cristi Cave:
	{{{{{ Cristi }}}}}   Cyberhugs are a nice convention, I just wish
that they didn't feel so inadequate.
Cristi Cave <> responded with:
	Well, they didn't feel inadequate from *this* end.  My God,
everyone here has been so incredible.  I don't have enough time to respond
adequately to the love and support that I've received.  Not even so much
numbers, it's the *quality* of caring that got to me.  Yes, you got through
to me.  I was in a living Hell there for awhile.  But thanks partly to you,
I've recovered my balance, at least momentarily.  I've managed to settle
down enough to participate in painfully open dialogue with the love of my
life and we have reached an understanding, just this evening.  There was a
lot of fear and pain there, but every bit of the love is still there, and
still intact.  And it looks like we're intact, too.   {{{{{ ASD }}}}}

Joseph A. Ferreira MD <> wrote:
	First and second opinions offered on medical conditions.  To
contact the doctor for more information or with questions visit our web
site or call . . . .
Barb <> responded with:
	Go away until we look like we are trying to use the Yellow Pages
rather than participate in a support group.

Cheryl Shipman <> wrote:
	My therapist has an unwitting contribution to the Sampler.  She
tells me:  "analysis not paralysis".  Right up there with the definition of
Psychoanalysis as:  "care of the id by the odd".
Editors note:  I don't think these were really "original words used here on
ASD", but what the heck.

Stevie Mark Nielsen <> wrote:
	I don't have much tolerance for trolls, but I do try to remember
they are (most likely) people too, and they probably need some kind of
help.  I just don't know what to do for them.  Perhaps we need some
scientific/medical research into "trollness" as a behavior disorder.  Is
there any such thing as Chronic Asshole Disorder?
Diane Wilson <> responded with the correct DSM4
	Chronic asshole disorder, infantile
	Chronic asshole disorder, adolescent
	Bipolar chronic asshole disorder
	Dissociative asshole disorder
	Borderline asshole disorder
	Atypical asshole disorder
	Chronic asshole disorder, not otherwise specified

Michael Sangree < wrote:
Subject:   Anybody else have multiple orgasms on Nardil?
	I mean, not me, but heck, if there were a pretty girl out there who
did, and she had like a boss car like a Firebird or an IROC-Z, well, if she
had a driver's license and money, I'd be more than willing to trade lessons
in WordPerfect 4.2 or IBM Displaywrite III, which looks like it's called
"eye-eye-eye", but that's actually a Roman Numeral for 3, which means it's
even cooler than like if it just had a 3.  Plus, I have a big cookie jar
full of Nardil, because I've been pretending to take it but actually saving
it for my multiorgasmic Nardil-taking honey, whom I just know is out there,
dying to learn Wordstar or Multimate, did I mention those too, howabout
Wang, I have one, I'm an expert user, call now, operators are sort of
standing by.
I love you totally in advance for your compassionate efforts to overlook my
big tummy,
Editors note:  No, *I* do not have a clue what this is all about.  But hey,
you don't have to understand something intellectually to laugh and learn
from it.

Leaf <> responded as follows to the question of why one
testicle hangs lower than the other:
	Well, obviously a woman's more objective voice is needed here.  One
necessarily hangs lower to accommodate the brain.

Gemma <> wrote:
	If depression is such a treatable disease, why are we all here?  It
seems like many, if not most, of us have been trying different meds and
therapies for years.
wombn <> responded with:
	Many diseases cannot be cured once-and-for-all, but instead, are
"managed".  I think depression is that way for lots of folks.  My
depressions have had such a profound affect on me and my life that, most
times, I only find a common understanding with others who have gone through
similar experiences.

Gemma <> has used the following signature file:
	Gemma, who, after all, has once again decided to refuse to give up.

Jill Merrill <> wrote:
	I'm not much of a "newsgroup type" because I'm scared of crowds.
So reading ASD feels like walking into a huge party where everyone knows
each other except me.  I feel both ten feet tall and invisible.  I've
gotten a lot out of corresponding with other depressed people.  It's just
that e-mail is more my style, and lately I seem to have more time than
e-mail.  An empty inbox is a sad thing indeed.

Michael Fried <> wrote:
	I am a clinical intern doing psychotherapy.  A client of mine found
on-line relationships to be his most intimate and least anxiety-producing.
I am conducting exploratory research, to better assess and treat clients
who report spending time on-line.  I will make the results of my research
Stewart/sna <> responded with:
	I am quite sure that you mean well, but it is *my personal* opinion
that ASD is here for people who need support or who feel the need to give
support.  I hope that you can actually participate in ASD.  Short of that,
I am quite sure you will not find anything even remotely close to what you
are looking for.
Michael Fried <> then asked:
	How would one respectfully sample on-line users for research
purposes such as mine?
Stewart/sna <> took off his clothes and tried again:
	Consider this metaphor/analogy.  ASD is like one big orgy.  We are
all here getting naked and having sex with one another.  I mean we are
really naked.  Really having sex with each other.  Then along comes someone
wearing a white lab coat who says:  "This is fascinating.  I have heard
that people get naked and have sex like this.  I want to help other people
with their naked sexual experiences.  Does anyone here on ASD mind if I put
electrodes on their private parts to record what is going on.  I promise to
compile a lot of statistics and to report back to the group and to the
world at large all about this interesting naked sex thing that goes on
	When the response is less than enthusiastic, the researcher in the
white lab coat says;  "I don't get it.  Why don't people on ASD think this
is a good idea.  Don't they understand how interesting this is?  Don't they
understand how they can help me personally and professionally?  Don't they
understand how they can help others out there in the big old world?"  In
point of fact, I think we *DO* understand all of those things.  But what I
understand now, even more than ever, is that ASD is a process that takes
place in a context.  ASD is not a product that results from specific
content.  In other words, you really cannot capture this experience unless
you actually take your clothes off and join in the fun!!  The more you try
to capture the experience with your clothes on, the farther away from it
you will find yourself.  You will find yourself swaddled in layers upon
layers of data, less naked and less sexually fulfilled.  Now does anyone
have a cigarette?  I feel exhausted, and I need a few drags before I drift
off to sleep.

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