Posting-frequency: Bi-Weekly (11th/27th of each month)
[It has been a long time since I've posted (and, frankly, since I've
been able to read news. But I'm back. -sks]
Welcome to the moderated misc.transport.air-industry newsgroup. This
group is intended for discussion of the airline/air travel industries.
Discussion of personal air travel belongs in the rec.travel.air group.
Buying and selling of travel belongs in the rec.travel.marketplace group.
Buying and selling of aircraft belongs in the rec.aviation.marketplace
group. Technical discussions of aircraft design belongs in the
The moderators' goal is to maintain an active and open discussion
without burdening readers with excessive traffic that is not relevent to
the newsgroup's charter.
This file is the "m-t-ai posting FAQ." The following guidelines
specify what role the moderators will play in determining the content
of this group. A separate FAQ will include answers to various
questions that are frequently asked on the group. This file is posted
twice per month.
Recent Modification History
01-Nov-97 Added pointer to DejaNews for accessing related newsgroups
12-Aug-97 Provided new references for airline and airport codes
11-Aug-97 Added alt.travel.uk.air to related newsgroups
23-Jul-97 Added "nospam" address policy
06-Jul-97 Updated moderator list
27-Jan-97 Fixed typo, added warning about leaking confidential information
19-Jan-97 Updated moderator list
12-Jun-96 Added notice of classified postings
12-May-96 Minor corrections and clarifications
10-May-96 Added suggestions about citing sources
29-Feb-96 Added rejection for posts written in a language other than English
29-Feb-96 Added references to rec.aviation.marketplace
29-Jan-96 Added suggestions for changing subject lines and editing
29-Jan-96 Added alt.flame.airlines to list of related newsgroups
12-Jan-96 Added sci.aeronautics and alt.disasters.aviation to list of
09-Sep-95 Added section on airline/airport abbreviations and how to
obtain a list of codes
12-Aug-95 Expanded list of related newsgroups and added descriptions.
12-Aug-95 Added sci.aeronautics.airliners to introduction section and
did some reorganization
18-Jul-95 Updated moderator list
16-Jul-95 Added section on how to post articles to misc.transport.air-industry
15-Jul-95 Finally received permission to cross-post to misc.answers and
Subject: WHAT WILL M.T.A-I MODERATORS ACCEPT?
Any posts that discuss issues regarding the air industry are welcomed
here, provided they do not fall into the reject category (see "WHAT WILL
M.T.A-I MODERATORS REJECT?" below). Appropriate discussions would
include, but are not limited to:
* Airline deregulation in Europe, effect on member states, and
* The financial health (or lack thereof) of airlines.
* Airliner models as related to airline routes, resource allocation,
* Comments about the industry from insiders (most US airlines have one
or more employees who read/post to the net, we hope to attract
serious comments from these posters to this group).
* Discussion of all aspects of airline management.
* Fare changes and discussion of their effects on airline yields.
Press releases from airlines and other airline industry-related
corporations (i.e. Boeing, Airbus, McDonnell Douglas, IATA):
* As long as the content is largely informative and not blatant
* Announcements of fare sales, route changes, aircraft purchases,
Topics can range from small cargo charter operations in the far east to
major international passenger carriers such as British Airways,
American, or Lufthansa. All aspects of commercial aviation operations
As a trial, we are taking some of the more "commercial" and less
"discussion-oriented" posts and posting them seperately in digest form
Subject: [CLASSIFIED] misc.transport.air-industry classified for (date)
Anyone who submits something that will go in a "classified" posting
will receive a response saying, "This will be posted in the
misc.transport.air-industry classified in the next week."
Examples of things that will be accepted:
(1) major airline seeking Boeing 727 captain with 3000 hours
experience, email firstname.lastname@example.org"
(2) "737-300 for sale, Herb, call me at 1-800-BUY-BOEING"
(3) "airliner models wanted, email email@example.com"
(4) "AN-124 for lease during the month of April"
Here's what we WILL NOT accept in the classified postings:
(1) buying and selling of airline tickets or frequent flyer miles
(2) anything non-airline-industry relevant (baseball cards, etc)
(3) resumes/CVs. job postings are fine but NOT resumes.
(4) posts over about 20 lines (which automatically stops resumes :-)
Subject: WHAT WILL M.T.A-I MODERATORS REJECT?
The following types of articles will be rejected:
1. FORMAT PROBLEMS
Posts rejected for these reasons will be returned with a note
explaining why. For the time being, the moderators will lean on
the side of leniency.
A. Post does not quote enough of the previous post to provide
an understandable level of context.
B. Post quotes a long previous post in its entirety and does not
provide any new content. "I agree" posts fall into this category.
C. Post quotes text without proper attribution.
D. Post includes an attribution line for a previous post, without
including any of material to be quoted.
E. Post has a "nospam" return address where the "nospam" appears in
the hostname part of the e-mail address. For example:
firstname.lastname@example.org is legitimate, but
email@example.com will be rejected, possibly without any
indication from the moderator.
F. Followup postings that do not have an adequate "References:"
header. The "References:" header allows threaded news readers to
place the post in its appropriate sequence, along with other
articles on that subject. Without the "References:" header, news
readers treat the post as if it starts a new thread. If this
happens to your posts, please complain to your local system
administrator to provide better news posting software.
G. Posts not written in English (unless a particular audience is
2. COMMERCIAL POSTS
Any post that involves the intent to sell or buy something directly
[but see the interim note about the m-t-ai classifieds posts above].
These types of posts will be returned to the poster with a pointer
toward rec.travel.marketplace and/or rec.aviation.marketplace:
Examples: Tickets for sale, frequent-flyer coupons for sale or
trade, looking for tickets, become-a-travel-agent-and-
get-free-travel-that-isn't-really-free, cheap calling card
offers, pyramid schemes, scams.
Hyped-up press releases will also be rejected.
In addition, off-topic posts selling things NOT related to travel
will also be automatically rejected. These include spams and other
cross-posted messages (usually on how to make money).
3. MISDIRECTED QUESTIONS OR ANNOUNCEMENTS
The following types of posts will be returned to the poster with a
pointer toward rec.travel.air. The general rule of thumb is that
misc.transport.air-industry is a forum for discussions about the
industry in general, while discussions about personal travel
belong on rec.travel.air.
* "What is the 800 number for Air Foobar?"
* "What is the cheapest fare between Podunk and Peadum?"
* "Please suggest a good travel agent in Peoria."
* "How do I do courier travel?"
* "Does anyone have experience with Air Foobar?" or
* "Let me tell you my recent horror story with Air Foobar!"
* "I want to blow up Air Foobar's corporate headquarters because
my luggage got lost, so what would be the best explosive?"
* Announcements of new web sites that pertain to air travel.
* "Which is more comfortable, Air Foobar or Air Barfoo?"
The moderators will accept the above types of posts *IF* they are
related to the industry. Example:
* "Airfares between Podunk and Peadum have systematically risen ever
since Air Foobar pulled out of the market."
* "Will travel agents be able to survive after the commission cap?"
* "Courier travel is being declared illegal."
* "Is Air Foobar's service deteriorating?"
* "How well is the XYZ baggage system working?"
* New web pages linking to airlines.
* "Has Air Foobar's tight seat pitch prevented them from attracting
business travelers to buy high-yield, full-fare tickets."
Misc.transport.air-industry has a large (and growing) readership,
which includes professionals from several airlines and other
industry-related companies. In an effort to maintain a professional
and interesting level of discussion, the moderators will reject posts
for the following reasons:
* Posts that contain profanity, particularly when the article offers
little other redeeming content.
* Duplicate posts (from the same poster) or identical posts on the
same topic (from the same or different posters).
As the newsgroup readership grows, the amount of traffic is starting
to increase. The following suggestions will make the group easier to
* Use an appropriate subject line on your posting. If a thread
moves to a new area, be sure to change the subject line.
* Be sure to edit down quoted text to the minimum possible.
To keep the level of discussion as professional as possible:
* If you are quoting text from a printed source, please explicitly
state the title, country of publication, date, and page number so
that others who wish to investigate further may try to do so.
Similar information would be helpful even for non-printed sources
such as television documentaries or news programs.
* Be careful to avoid posting proprietary business information or
other confidential matter. Most companies, including airlines,
will take severe action (including termination) if they discover
that you did leak information.
Subject: HOW TO POST TO MISC.TRANSPORT.AIR-INDUSTRY
Generally, you should be able to post to misc.transport.air-industry
as you would any other newsgroup. Your posting will automatically be
forwarded to the misc.transport.air-industry moderators. The
moderators will review the post to make sure that it conforms to
these posting guidelines and then approve it for distribution. If your
article is rejected, you will receive a note explaining why.
Because your article needs to be approved, you should not expect to
see it appear immediately in the newsgroup. The post will usually
appear within a few days of your submission, and usually faster.
If, for some reason, you find yourself unable to post to the
newsgroup (e.g. your submission does not appear in the newsgroup and
you do not receive a note from the moderators), you should contact
your local news administrator. Most posting problems are caused by
misconfigured news software.
If all else fails, you might try framing your post as an e-mail
"Reply." Draft your (follow-up) article as if you were e-mailing a
reply to the original article. Change the "To:" line of the e-mail
to firstname.lastname@example.org, Please, only use this approach as a last
resort and ask a local guru for help if these instructions don't make
sense to you.
Subject: WHEN ALPHABET SOUP IS NOT A TASTY DISH
Each airport is assigned a three-letter abbreviation, and each airline
has a two character (letters and numbers are used) abbreviation.
Regular readers to the group recognize an amazingly large number
of these codes, and regular posters use the codes liberally in their
As a rule, you should limit the number of airport/airline codes that you
use in your postings. If you wish to use a code that is not widely
understood, then define the code when you first use it. For example,
RG will begin non-stop service between JFK and GPS on July 13th. The
flight will depart JFK at 3:00pm and arrive GPS at 3:02pm.
you should say:
Varig (RG) will begin non-stop service between JFK and the Galapagos
Islands (GPS) on July 13th. The flight will depart JFK at 3:00pm and
arrive GPS at 3:02pm.
Note that JFK (New York's Kennedy airport) is a common enough
abbreviation to probably not need explanation.
The International Air Transport Association (IATA) provides a search
engine for locating airports by three-letter code or by city name:
The Airport Search Engine is a bit more powerful. It lets you search
for airports by IATA abbreviation, city, or country:
You can search for airline (two-letter and three-letter) codes at the
IATA web site.
Another list of the most common airline codes is available
at the following URL:
Subject: RELATED NEWSGROUPS
Note that all of these newsgroups may not be available to you. If you
cannot access them, please contact your news administrator or use
* rec.travel.air General discussion of air travel, often
from a passenger (rather than industry)
* rec.travel.marketplace Buying and selling of any travel-related item
* rec.aviation.marketplace Buying and selling of aircraft and related
* rec.aviation.* Discussion of flying from an aircraft
* sci.aeronautics Technical discussion of flying in general
* sci.aeronautics.airliners Technical discussion of aircraft design
* comp.simulation Discussion of simulation of all sorts
* alt.disasters.aviation Discussion of aviation disasters
* alt.flame.airlines For those who are angry about airlines
* alt.travel.uk.air Discussion of air travel in Britain
Subject: LIST OF MISC.TRANSPORT.AIR-INDUSTRY MODERATORS
Helen Rose <email@example.com>
Ronald Cluett <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Kevin Cuddeback <email@example.com>
Christopher Davis <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Daniel Grove <Daniel.Grove@eng.sun.com>
Eric Olesen <email@example.com>
Sandeep Singhal <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Stephan Tolboom <S.Tolboom@kub.nl>
Gordon Werner <email@example.com>
Subject: WHERE TO OBTAIN THIS FAQ
If you are not reading this file on misc.transport.air-industry,
news.answers or misc.answers directly, you may obtain the most current
version at: rtfm.mit.edu in the directory pub/usenet/news.answers
(/pub/usenet is a link to pub/usenet-by-group). This is an anonymous
site--you ftp there as anonymous, and use your email address as your
password. The file is:
If "ftp" sounds like alphabet soup and it doesn't mean anything to
you, there is another way to retrieve the file. Simply send an
email message to firstname.lastname@example.org, subject ignored, with
the body of your message saying any or all of the following:
You may also send them the following message to learn how to ftp:
The FAQ files are also accessible over World Wide Web at
This is the end of the misc.transport.air-industry posting guidelines FAQ.
[ Usenet FAQs | Web FAQs | Documents | RFC Index ]
Send corrections/additions to the FAQ Maintainer:
singhal@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Sandeep Singhal)
Last Update March 27 2014 @ 02:11 PM