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alt.romance "FAQ" (part 1 of 3) [posted monthly]

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Alt-romance-archive-name: FAQ-part1
Archive-name: romance-faq/part1
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Last-modified: 2006-12-31
Version: 62

See reader questions & answers on this topic! - Help others by sharing your knowledge
[This may be the last time that I post this FAQ. I'll be offline for an
unknown time because I don't want to pay the new broadcasting fee for
"internet PCs" here in Germany. Maybe I'll read e-mail occasionally with
a PC that belongs to somebody else. Good-bye and happy new year! -Henning]


@}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`--   Alt.romance "FAQ"   @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-


Subject: Table of contents: Part 1: #0# Introduction #1# Abbreviations #2# Is it love or not? #3# Nice guys and general stuff #4# Kissing and hugging #5# Snuggling and sleeping #6# Gifts #7# Flowers and their meaning Part 2: #8# What do women want? #9# Dating #A# Sensitivity training #B# Backrubs and massages #C# Fireplace scenes and the RFA #D# Breaking up #E# Literature Part 3: #F# "I love you" in various languages #G# ASCII graphics Search for the string #?# to find the corresponding chapter!
Subject: #0# Introduction Don't expect an appropriate answer to any of your questions in this "FAQ"! When it comes to romance no question has one simple answer, but many different answers. It all depends very much on the persons involved. Yet you can find many interesting ideas that could inspire your creativity. Try to adapt them to your individual needs/tastes/styles/characters/cultures or better try to invent something new! Contrary to other subjects a FAQ on romance can't be a list of objective questions and answers that everyone can agree on. This "FAQ" is largely composed of quotes from different people's postings. It isn't just a sterile list of questions and answers that doesn't reflect the authors' personality and passion, but a mixture of various ways of advice giving. Always remember that this "FAQ" doesn't contain eternal truths, but just the opinions of the authors! Feel encouraged to disagree! Don't take everything seriously! Some things to remember when posting to alt.romance: * Feel free to ask questions that already are in this "FAQ"! There will always be some answers that can NOT be found in a short FAQ on the delicate subject of romance... * If you want to prove how smart you are please post the most useful, most empathizing advice instead of the most biting flame! * If you need to post something that has nothing to do with romance please consider setting the "Followup-To:" line to more appropriate newsgroup(s)! * Advice on posting to Usenet can regularly be found in news.announce.newusers. * Don't post personal ads! There are more appropriate newsgroups for that, for example alt.personals.ads or soc.personals. * Don't ask for penpals here! Such requests should go to soc.penpals. * Don't post chain letters / pyramid schemes! That's illegal in most countries. You and your postmaster might be flooded with complaints and your "Wanted" poster be added to <http://www.usps.gov/websites/depart/inspect/wantmenu.htm> * Don't post commercial advertisements! You will not only get flooded with complaints and risk losing your account - you even risk getting on various blacklists <http://math-www.uni-paderborn.de/~axel/BL/blacklist.html> More about advertising on Internet can be found in news.announce.newusers. * If you want to complain about inappropriate postings, please do so via e-mail, but don't mailbomb! You might hit an innocent newbie who left the terminal unattended or someone who is the victim of a forged posting... The Net Abuse FAQ (posted to news.admin.net-abuse.misc and other groups) <http://www.cybernothing.org/faqs/net-abuse-faq.html> explains how to detect the most simple forgeries. Better read it before you send a complaint to postmaster@where.abuse.apparently.came.from Thanks to all who contributed to this "FAQ" by posting interesting articles and making helpful suggestions! Any comments and suggestions for improvements are welcome!
Subject: #1# Abbreviations AIDS = Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (see the sci.med.aids FAQ: <http://www.aids.wustl.edu> BF = BoyFriend BTW = By The Way FAQ = Frequently Asked Questions (if you've never seen one, read news.answers!) FYI = For Your Information GF = GirlFriend ILY = I Love You IMHO = In My Humble Opinion IMNSHO = In My Not So Humble Opinion IMO = In My Opinion IRC = Internet Relay Chat LDR = Long Distance Relationship LJBF = Let's Just Be Friends MOTAS = Member Of The Appropriate Sex MOTOS = Member Of The Opposite Sex MOTSS = Member Of The Same Sex POV = Point Of View RFA = Romantic Fire Association RP = Romantic Partner SO = Significant Other (not Sex Object :-) Please consider using RP instead!) STD = Sexually Transmitted Disease XSO = ex-SO YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary :-) = smilie (indicates humorous remark; some other smilies: ;-) :) 8-)
Subject: #2# Is it love or not? From: haywire@wpi.WPI.EDU (Haywire) @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,- subject: mature love vs. infatuation While cleaning out my room I found a memo from my freshman year about planned parenthood, social deseases, etc... Inside I found this: TEN QUESTIONS TO ASK ABOUT YOURSELF AND YOUR RELATIONSHIP 1. What do I want from this relationship? 2. Have I told him/her what is important to me in a relationship? 3. Does he/she tell me what is important to him/her in a relationship? 4. Am I happy with the way things are? 5. What type of changes would make it better? 6. Can we talk about touching? 7. Do I feel good about the touching we do? 8. Am I feeling pressured or am I pressurring? 9. How does the relationship affect other things or people in my life? 10 Who can I talk to when things get tough? Then it goes into these definitions: MATURE LOVE *both are individuals apart from the other *each accepts the fact that neither is perfect *the relationship is strong in tough times as well as happy times *the love gives each person energy to devote to all aspects of life *the two people are close friends *each person continues to grow as an independent human being *there is joy in giving as well as receiving *there is honesty and trust between the two people *each feels a responsibility to the others well being INFATUATION IS NOT LOVE *the person depends on the relation for self esteem *the person takes more from the relationship than they give *each is jealous of the others seperate activities *the relationship drains the person of energy *the person is afraid that the other person will lose interest in them *the person can only think of the other person What do you think From: U51754@uicvm.uic.edu (Kimikimkim) @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`--- @}-,-`--- subject: How do you know when it's love? (Summary of replies to a survey) [...] 1. When you see someone you like, how do you attract that person? *I flirt and smile a lot. I try to let them see who I am by sharing myself. *I find out what our mutual interests are and I try to find a way to share them. *By conversations and phone calls, make the other person know that you are alive and interested in him/her. *Do not put on an act, just be yourself. *You cannot go out and try "lines" on him/her, these are normally turn offs. *Do not try and move too fast. If it is meant to be, it will happen. 2. And once that person is attracted to you, how do you know you're in love? *By looking into his eyes and seeing my reflections through the tears of joy in his eyes. *By enjoying and appreciating the little things he did for me and getting goose bumps at the sound of his voice when he called my name. *I would say that if you are waiting for it to happen, it will take longer or it will not happen. Be patient with it. *When I know that I have seen my lover's soul and I love it. *Sharing daily things with each other and showing undivided attention to that person. 3. When you're in love, how would you express it? *Making the other person the most important person in your life is the key. *By being there and being able to count on the other person. You must be honest too. *I do his laundry and make his dinner for him when he is too tired to do them. *I do the mush stuff: cards, flowers, weekends away, etc. *I treat him well. I treat him like a best friend because he is. 4. And after expressing your everlasting love, how does your significant other return it? *By telling me how he feels deep inside, opening up to me, and telling me every little thing about his feelings towards things. *He returns my love by holding my hand when we are walking across the street. *Just seeing the glow and smile on the other person's face means that it must be love! *Love is a give and take arrangement. You must give love in order to receive it. *He loves me all the time! He purrs when I wake him up in the morning. He hugs me throughout the day. *When he looks at me, I see the love in his eyes. He treats me as though I was precious. Failing all else, one slightly insane guru suggested a sure fire method: *I would light my hair on fire and place a live salmon in my vest pocket to attract her. I know I'm in love when she can enjoy my salmon, but still respect my mind. I show her my love by doing interpretive dancing with fluorescent lightbulbs, followed by splashing multicolored dayglow paint against my thighs, and then dinner at McDonalds. And I know she loves me when there's an absence of gunfire and lawsuits. [...] From: drl@sol.acs.unt.edu (Laakso Dianna) @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- subject: seeing 'the signs' (body language etc.) peregrin@husc13.harvard.edu (James Peregrino) writes: [...] >1) she makes an attempt to break your personal space. i.e gets a little >closer to you than most people do. Yes, this is something some of us do. When standing and talking to someone I'm attracted to, I move just a little closer. If there's an empty seat beside him then of course I sit there. If he's done something kind for me then I touch him lightly on the arm when I say 'thanks'. Etc. >2) she conveniently runs into. Especially if your daily patterns are >predictable. Yep. I would try to be where he is.... but not so often that I would make a pest of myself. >3) her dressing patterns change. But balance this with knowing that it >could be due to a change in season. If she begins to wear pretty things, like romantic dresses, or skirts instead of jeans, jewlery when she never did before, perfume, a more attractive hairstyle, then interpret it as a sign. These are all things I find myself doing when I'm interested in someone. >4) Is she nervous around you? Makes silly mistakes? Definitely a sign, especially if she's just getting to know you... however, if the nervousness diminishes, DON'T take it as a sign that she's losing interest! Personally the more I like him and the more I get to know him, the less nervous I am around him. >5) When you are having a conversation with her and it is going well (or >very interesting) does she appear inordinately happy about that? How do you know women so well? ;) You'll see it in her eyes...if she thinks things are going well and that you're interested in her too, then it will show. Just take a good look into her eyes. You can't miss it. >6) Has she made any attempt to feel you out? A personal question dropped >in the middle of a conversation. Look for questions such as "Where are >you from?" "What town do you live in?". And especially any information >that could be used to determine if you are single or attached. 'What do you like to do in your free time?' 'How do you like this or that about your job?' 'Tell me about your family' I've been in a situation before when I was almost positive that he was interested in me, but I got the feeling that he was waiting for me to ask about his personal life, because it had something to do with his hesitation in starting a relationship with me. I didn't ask though...most women wouldn't unless they are very assertive (wish I were). Don't take it as a sign of non-interest if she doesn't take hints like that. >7) Body language: Either A) Looks you right in the eye. B) Avoids your >glance. Contradictory? Sure, but it is up to you to test this. Does >she look everyone else right in the eye? You job is to see if you can >find a consistent pattern of things that she does differently around >you. I look him straight in the eye, and hold his eyes a moment longer than I would in ordinary conversation with just anyone. James, you're a pretty observant guy. I wish they were all! - Dianna
Subject: #3# Nice guys and general stuff From: 274-0106@mcimail.com (Paul J. Wilczynski) @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`- @}- subject: Nice guys / meeting women I've been reading a lot of postings from guys who are having problems finding a relationship. Many of them (but not all) speaking of their being a 'nice guy' and not wanting to be aggressive. This is coming from someone who's 43. I've wanted to comment on these postings for a while, and finally decided to do it. When I was a teen thru my mid-20s, I characterized myself as a 'nice guy'. Same story I hear here on a regular basis ... lots of women would tell me what a great catch I'd be for someone else. Sounds nice the first time you hear it. Maybe the second, and possibly the third. After that, it gets old really fast. What I finally realized, after a *long* time, was that I was waiting for "something" to happen, and it didn't. I *certainly* didn't want to offend a women by suggesting we be something more than friends, did I? I *certainly* didn't want to risk getting my face slapped by suggesting (in any manner) that the bedroom might be an appropriate place to spend the rest of the evening, did I? Let me tell you, in no particular order, what I've learned about this whole thing called "relationships between men and women". Take it for what it's worth ... and remember it's often worth what you pay for it. Some of these points are interrelated ... 1. With rare exceptions, women are not offended if you make a pass at them, as long as it's done with some amount of taste. In fact, after a fairly short period of time (mileage may vary), women draw an important conclusion if you *don't* make a pass. And that conclusion is that you're not terribly interested in being more than a friend. Let me explain that I consider 'make a pass' to be a very broad term ... it can be something as non-threatening as putting you hand on her arm briefly and telling her that you think she looks especially nice tonight. 2. If you're interested in a women as possibly more than a friend, you *have* to tell her that - somehow - fairly soon. Probably by the end of the first date. Again, it doesn't have to be anything Outrageously Significant, but it's got to be *something*. (see last sentence above). It doesn't have to be words. It at least has to be some sort of signal. 3. On the subject of compliments: a. Women enjoy receiving them. b. But not *all* the time - they get boring and embarrassing. c. And they *know* when you're lying. d. You're much better off complimenting a woman on something she has some control over. Her hair style. A piece of jewelry. Her presentation in a class. Not particularly her eyes, her skin color, the size of her breasts. *Especially* not the size of her breasts. 4. *Practice* dealing with women, especially if you're shy. They usually don't bite (some do, actually, but that's another topic and doesn't come until somewhat later in the relationship ...) How? Easy: a. Say hi to at least 3 women a day you've never spoken to before, or maybe even never seen before. Say it when you pass them in the hall. When you sit down next to them in class. When you buy something from them in a store. Why? 1) Because you'll probably at the very least get a suprised smile which will make you feel *lots* better about yourself 2) Because they might say something back to you, and then you're talking Don't worry about saying anything else. Just "hi". If you want to be brave, and it's the right situation (not passing in the hall, for example), you could try "I don't think we've met ... my name is <insert first name here>." But "hi" is fine the first time. b. Don't wait until you see the woman of your imagined dreams before you strike up a conversation. Try to talk to any woman about anything without making a pest of yourself. The worst that can happen is that she'll indicate she's not interested in talking. Think of that reaction as her loss. c. What can you talk about? Literally, anything. "Whew, it's cold outside!". "Excuse me, what time have you got?" (possibly followed by "that's a nice watch!", but only if you believe it (see 3c above)). d. Who do you talk to? Anyone! It's practice, remember? 5. On the subject of being "aggressive" (which "nice guys", of course, don't like to be) ... a. Don't think of it as "aggressive". Think of it as "self-confident" but not really cocky. b. This quality (and I use that word in a positive sense) is one which reflects your feeling (you have this feeling, don't you?) that you're a man worth knowing. Forget about "nice guy". Unfortunately, "nice guy" equates to wimp/dweeb in too many people's minds. Sure you're nice - most people are. So what? c. "Aggressive" in my definition isn't wolf whistles or cat calls. It's not leering. It's not pawing a woman's body. It's taking some initiative and not waiting for madam perfection to drop into your lap (which you as a "nice guy" deserve by definition, of course). It's showing some honest interest in something about a woman. I could go on, but that's probably it for a start. Comments? I'd be interested in comments from women as much as men. Paul From: 274-0106@mcimail.com (Paul J. Wilczynski) @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`- @}- subject: More on Men and Women Because of a flood of positive mail (well, a small flood) in response to my recent posting about relationships between men and women, I thought I'd pass along a few more random observations. Remember: advice is worth what you pay for it, and this is based on my experience. Your mileage may vary. Since I actually got more responses from women (saying that many of the points applied equally to women, too), I'm going to divide this up into sections. A. Both sexes ... 1. Remember that members of the opposite sex are people, just like you. Women aren't orifaces, guys. Guys have feelings too, women. 2. One of the things that you'll come to find most attractive about a person of a the opposite sex in terms of a relationship is that the person is attracted to you. I have to give credit to a discussion in some newsgroup to this idea, but it really hit me when I read it. Think about it: if a person doesn't *want* to have a relationship with you, that's really not an attractive quality about the person, is it? Ever take a course in marketing? A market is defined in part by those people who want what you're selling. If a person doesn't want what you're selling, the person isn't in your market! Not everyone is going to want what you've got, great as it might be. 3. Smile. Not grin, but smile. 4. *Try* to see beyond what a person of the opposite sex looks like on the outside. Of course, if you look at a person and have to suppress a gag reflex, that's probably not the one you want to spend a lifetime with, as nice a personality as (s)he may have. Remember all those pithy little sayings like "beauty is only skin deep"? Well, try to remember them. Some of the most beautiful women I have ever known you wouldn't notice walking down the street. But when they smiled that special smile at me and only me ... whew. If their Weight isn't quite Proportional to their Height (WPTH), so what? Of course, on the other side of the fence, the campus beauty queen is only human, too, beneath all that lucious, sexy, curvy ... (oh, stop it, Paul!!!!) 5. Try as hard as you can not to get involved with people who are married, no matter what they say about the state of their marriage, unless they're separated and have filed papers for divorce. 6. Think about what you say before you say it, from the point of view of hearing someone else say it to you. My worst experience in this area: the first time I ever bedded a woman was when I was about 23. (Late bloomer, obviously). She was about 10 years older than me and previously married. Things were going well, but I was nervous. Right at Beginning Moment, she looked up at me and said "Is this your first time in saddle?" The situation turned out fine, fortunately (she took the role of Teacher), but the phrasing of the question could have used some work. B. For men ... 1. I hate to say this is this section, but I think it may apply somewhat more to men then women. Keep yourself clean, ok? You may have a great mind and a stunning personality, but if your potential sex partner has to hang odor eaters around you, it's making the situation just that much more difficult. 2. Forget about the idea of getting into bed with a woman with the intention of both of you keeping your clothes on all night, unless that's the way you want the relationship to be for the rest of all time, or unless you happen to be into the sex game called "I'm a priest, you're a nun". If it's late at night and you're a long way from home (or drunk) and she offers with the caveat that no Private Parts will be exposed, politely decline the offer. Tell her that she's much too attractive for you to be able to do that without being overwhelmed by passion (assuming you believe it, of course), then sleep on the floor or the couch. 3. Often (not always, but very often) when a woman tells you about a problem she's having, she's not looking to you for the solution. What? That doesn't make sense? See intro to section C. What she's often looking for is comfort and reassurance and knowing that you're there. That's why, when you analyze the situation and present her the options as you seem them in decreasing order of probable success, she looks at you like you're from Mars and/or bursts into tears and/or storms off saying "you haven't heard a word I said!". Note that this doesn't really apply to a women who comes to you the day before a final saying she doesn't know the material. She's looking for your notes or a course summary she can stick in her shoe for consultation, not your comforting words that she'll ace the test in spite of having no concept of what the course was about. I understand, the nuances of this are rough. Stick with it. C. For women ... [This section's a little tough for me because, frankly, I don't really understand women. No man will *ever* absolutely understand women, hundreds of books oriented towards Understanding Women to the contrary. Oh, I understand them *more* as time goes on, but it would take more than one or two average male lifetimes (AMLs, as we call them) to Understand them.] 1. Whoever invented the game of "play hard to get"? Sheesh. Lots of guys have enough lack of self-confidence without playing *this* game. I mean, you don't have to come out and say you want to bear his children, but try to be honest. 2. Men's emotional swings can be just as wide as yours, PMS notwithstanding. Your smile can make a guy's day (or week), and your lack of attention can bring him to the depths of despair. 3. Rejection is *very* hard for a lot of guys to take, so if you're going to be doing any rejecting, give some thought to how you phrase it. Personally, the rejection phrase I've found easiest to take is "I'm already involved with someone". That wasn't a rejection of anything about *me*. That's it for now, Paul From: shirriff@sprite.Berkeley.EDU (Ken Shirriff) @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`--- subject: Nice Guys vs. Jerks (summary of a discussion) Q: Why do women go out with jerks instead of "nice guys"? This is one of the age-old Usenet questions that bores nearly anyone who has been on the net more than six months. There are several different meanings of "nice": Being a friendly, decent human being: generally a good thing. Being inoffensive, shy, boring, lacking self-confidence: almost always bad. People labeled "nice guy" usually fall into the last category; people can be nice without it being the defining facet of their personality. There are several different meanings of "jerk": Being an actual jerk: not attractive to most women. Being self-confident, assertive, outgoing: generally a good thing, but the nice guy may consider him a jerk. The nice guy vs. jerk debate thrives on this ambiguity, as well as the false division of people into nice guys or jerks. Women generally prefer self-confident guys over shy, boring ones, but this does not mean they prefer "jerks" over "nice guys". Men labelled "nice guy" may be submissive about their emotional needs. They would generally rather avoid an argument rather than let one develop. They are not loud or aggressive, and generally despise men who are, usually on the grounds that such men are insensitive and heedless of hurt they do to others. "Nice guys" face several impediments to relationships: they lose out in competition to assertive men and they appear to lack self-confidence. (Andrew Bettison) The canonical scenario is the woman always tells the nice guy about what a jerk her boyfriends are, but never goes out with nice guy. The nice guy remains single and frustrated (also known as LJBF: "let's just be friends"). a) The woman probably doesn't need to discuss her boyfriend when everything is fine, so the nice guy may form a unjustly negative image of the boyfriend. b) A barrier to a relationship with the nice guy is "don't sleep with friends". c) The interesting question in this scenario is why does the nice guy stick around with this woman who is draining his emotional support when he could find someone else. Note the symmetry that he is attracted to this "jerk" woman instead of finding a "nice woman". Being fun and interesting is the quality that gets you friends. Being nice is the quality that helps you keep the friends. Being sexy, flirtatious, and aggressive at the right moment gets you in bed with the woman you want. (strake) It is not true that women, in general, prefer assholes. Women, in general, prefer guys with self-confidence. Unfortunately, assholes are generally pretty self-confident. (slf) "Being *nice* is not enough." Okay, fine, you're *nice*. But you also need to be *interesting*. (Pooh) Maybe the cause-and-effect are backwards; guys who attract lots of women are jerks because they don't have to be nice. Some women say "you're too nice to go out with" as a "polite" way of saying "I don't want to go out with you". Clearly some women do go out with jerks (e.g. codependency, women who want extra excitement, women who want to "rescue" the jerk). However, lots of women do go out with nice guys; after all, most nice guys end up in relationships, married, etc. Besides, why would you _want_ to go out with a woman who is attracted to jerks. From: dabbott@leon.atnf.csiro.au (David Abbott) @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`- @}- subject: Re: Helpful Hints to NicePeople(tm) Karen Ronan <ronan@mendel.berkeley.edu> writes... >This won't be very thorough, but here are some hints to "nice people" on >how to stop others from taking advantage: > >- Give serious thought to how you feel when you have been taken advantage >of: e.g. hurt, betrayed, disappointed, scared, embarrassed, angry. Think >about exactly what behavior of your friend triggered exactly which >reaction in you. > >- Think about whether this reaction is entirely justified, partly >justified, possibly an overreaction, or what. Think about whether the >reaction is the same one you've been feeling since childhood in similar >situations. Think about whether you want to have this reaction for the >rest of your life, or whether you are ready to change the reaction. >(Sometimes you will still want to have that reaction.) > >- Think about whether you maintain your emotional boundaries or whether >you allow others to invade your emotional boundaries. If you let them >invade your boundaries, what are you willing to do to prevent this in the >future? Are you willing to say "No"? Are you willing to say, "I'm >angry"? Are you willing to say, "I'm finding it hard to tolerate what >you did, and I'm very hurt"? Even if it means the other person will get >defensive and angry with you? Are you willing to stand up for yourself >because your feelings are important ? > >- Think specifically about what you /can/ tolerate as opposed to what you >/actually/ tolerate. Give yourself permission to stop tolerating what is >intolerable. > >- Permit yourself to refuse people access to you if they're incapable of >treating you respectfully. > >- Respect yourself and respect others. Believe that others are doing the >best that they can, even if they are operating at a very low level. >People don't have the perception that you do. People don't know what you >are feeling or thinking and are unconscious of hurting you. > >- Think of communicating your feelings as giving information to someone, >not as imposing demands on them. > >Other hints welcome. > >Karen - Keep a diary of everything hurtful or enjoyable, and read each entry a week later. You soon realise if you are an oversensitive bastard. David. [...]
Subject: #4# Kissing and hugging From: jodar@girtab.usc.edu (Nicholas Jodar) @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-- >Alright guys...Here's the situation. I am not desperate, just looking for >a variety of answers to work with on this one. Say you take a girl out >and you get back to her apartment and it's time to say goodnight. What >should you do to get the kiss started and also, under what circumstances >would you throw a girl a nice kiss. Just looking for some ways I haven't >used and/or considered. Thanks... Well, there are many ways to do it, most dependent on your style. You could avoid kissing altogether: a small momento to remember the occasion with, a nice bow with a flourish, a good handshake, a wave goodbye, a gentle caress of her cheek. You could make it a neutral kiss: throw her a kiss, kiss her hand, kiss her cheek, kiss your finger and touch it to her lips. And of course, there's the KISS kiss... :-) Tell her (if you haven't already) how much you enjoyed the evening, and ask if she'd like to go out again. DO NOT tell her you're going to call her just to have something to say. Many men do this and it drives women nuts because the men never do call. If you can, tentatively schedule your next date. If you can't do that, at least let her know you'd like to go out again. One good way to end things is by giving her a big hug. I don't know of too many people that refuse a nice hug. If you hugging isn't up to par, practice a bit, first. You'll find lots of people willing to help you practice. :-) A good hug is firmly snug, but not crushing, requires a relaxed holding of the other person, (like you would hold them if you were trying to comfort them), and often includes some small movement, like rocking from side to side. Hugs last anywhere from one second to one minute, depending on how the people feel. After you give her a hug, you can look her in the face while remaining embraced. Stare into her eyes for a moment as you smile. If she pulls back, let her go, but keep smiling. If she doesn't, then just hold her. If she looks down at your mouth, or closes her eyes, this means she's expecting a kiss. Try being as delicate as possible... That's usually a good way to kiss for the first time. The memory of it will be like a butterfly, light and beautiful.... It's all fairly straightforward... Anybody else have any nifty ideas? -Nick From: kika.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,- [...] Kissing.. what a great topic and one of my favorite pastimes.. :) I can relate to a certain extent with your friend. I consider kissing to be an artform. The more creative the kissing, the more artistic and pleasurable to the palette. (pun intended) Men who french kiss during the entire exchange turn me off completely. Slow sensual and *mutual* touching, tasting, nibbling, licking, and variations thereof, combine to make the best kissing IMHO. The way a man kisses, tells me a great deal about how good of a lover he would be. Which bring me to another point.. men that just clamp their lips on yours and never move their lips or change the angle of the kiss, lose out on the whole rhythm and motion of a kiss. It should be something dynamic and explorative, but not explorative in the way that some jam their tongues in your mouth as though they were searching for fillings or something! :) From: bweiss@cs.arizona.edu (Beth Weiss) @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`--- subject: First kiss: Are glasses a problem? [...] If she resists, is scared, or feels guilty, she's not ready to be kissed. If your gentle attempt to kiss her doesn't meet with shy acceptance, then she's not ready--and you should stop. If that happens, tell her you understand, and ask if you can try again in a few days or a few weeks. > But, what embarrassing it is, if our glasses stop my way just on > the critical moment.... From experience, glasses don't get in the way very much at all. If only one party is wearing glasses, it's hardly ever a problem. If they both are, kissing can still be done quite easily. However, if you're worried about it, you might try this (and it will give her a chance to decide if she's just a little timid or if she wants you to stop): Reach over and gently take off her glasses, saying softly, "I'd like to kiss you" (optional: take off your glasses) Then kiss her gently > ps. Note that the important keyword : First Time. IMHE, first kisses don't tend to be as passionate as those shown in the movies--you can do it with glasses on. If they get in the way, one or both of you will pull back long enough to take them off. From: ar2j+@andrew.cmu.edu (Anthony Russell Rosania) @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-- When I first kissed my first girlfriend, our glasses bumped and clicked, we both laughed took them off, and we kissed, not picture perfect romance, but it was a good tension breaker, we we're both alot more relaxed that way.
Subject: #5# Snuggling and sleeping (See also: alt.cuddle) subject: How to hold your SO all night long From: RJD118@psuvm.psu.edu @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,- [...] I personally have always preferred lying on my back with my arms around her, her head on my chest, legs intertwined. Since the last two gf's slept on their sides/chests, they used my chest as a pillow. I gotta say, to whoever says that sleeping with you arms around your SO is torture, I never found that to be the case. I always got my best sleep when I was with someone else (and that ISN'T because of being worn out...just the comfort factor). The only probl em I ever ran into was that my last girlfriend was a late riser, And I tend to be a bit of an early bird, especially when I get a deep sleep...and, when she was laying on top/side, it was REAL tough to move at all without waking her... Some Simple Observations From My Point Of View Redneck! From: Foxy Lady @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`- [...] There's nothing I love more than to fall asleep in my lover's arms, waking up in the morning, still cuddling, is something I dream about. But, alas! My SO can't sleep when I'm in the same bed as him - even if I'm not in contact with him! I spend the whole night restraining myself from touching him, and he sleeps badly just because I'm there. When I'm in his arms I feel so secure. I become so relaxed, I sleep really well. I just wish he could relax with me too. From: Pamela Kay <szafrans@copper.ucs.indiana.edu> @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- My spouse and I have reached a really great compromise (I think, weve been together for 4 years...seems like yesterday..with 3 kids and one on the way....it feels like a 100 years sometimes :) We lay in the spoon position for a while and when he starts to drift off (which is very quickly when he horizontal :), I roll over and we hold hands. There are times when I wake up in the middle of the night and we are still holding hands. Many nights we also intertwine our feet. Close enough to touch, far enough to sleep comfortably. Mrs. B From: kkr42091@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (QUEEN ZENOBIA!) @}-,-`-- @}-,-`--- @}-,-`--- [...] yes i like to have my fiance sleep with his head on my chest and vice versa also. I do not really find it uncomfortable to sleep next to my fiance in this manner. I think perhaps i can find it more comfortable because i have some extra padding who know :) [not fat just extra padding :)] [...] -kimberli k roan From: kirk@duke.cs.duke.edu (Kirk Franklin) @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-- I like sleeping side by side, like spoons, or lying on my back and having the other person's head on my chest. >* separate beds in separate rooms (probably the best if one or both are > snoring too loud, or on those nasty days when you hate each other) This is why God invented couches. It's also very healthy to recognize that there will be times someone will be sleeping there. I also believe in each person using their own sheets, to eliminate the problem of hogging the sheets. It's no fun to get in trouble for something you did while you were asleep...or while they're asleep. A former girlfriend once had a dream about me doing something she didn't like, and I was in trouble all the next day. No worries, Scooter Corleone From: todd@csrnxt1.ae.utexas.edu (Todd W. Thompson) @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`- aatresa@lims04.lerc.nasa.gov (Teresa Kline) writes: [...] >I have never been more uncomfortable than when someone is trying to hold me >while I sleep. I can't turn over, I've got someone either breathing or >snoring in my ear, and it's just darned unpleasant. Sorry, guys. :) > >Teresa YAY! Someone, and someone of the opposite sex, who agrees with me! I'm one of those people who HAS to roll around a lot and kick covers and flip pillows over (it's colder on the other side, you see) and so on. And it used to annoy the heck out of my girlfriend. And now I find someone else who's like me in this respect! ALRIGHT! Now all I have to do is find one who'll date me.. :) Todd From: michael@gandalf.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (Michael Haardt) @}-,-`-- @}- [...] If you can't find sleep, try throwing pillows in your faces. You soon will get exhausted enough... :-) It is one of the most wonderful things to look at your SO's face, when she awakes and there is nothing comparable to spend hours in the bed, just hugging and kissing. Michael From: <RJD118@psuvm.psu.edu> @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}- As an answer to the "too hot" remark...less covers always seemed (Yes, past tense..) to do the trick for me 'n mine. I have found that EVERY female I have slept with (I am not saying had sex with...that limits the generality quite a bit...and I am not saying that this is true for all women...) have slept better with me holding them than they did without me holding them. But my roommate and his girlfriend DON'T "cuddle up" when they go to sleep... neither one "feels comfortable" that way. So they are pretty much back to back, with hands held between them. I guess you just have to find a way that both people can enjoy, and also sleep comfortably...try different ways, and then go to what "feels best".... [...] From: keo@netcom.com (Kyle Elisabeth Overstreet) @}-,-`-- @}-,-`--- @}-,-`--- subject: waking up [...] Now that we have been together as long as we have, I think it's fun that he gets these erections in his sleep, because he wakes up very surprised to find he's having sex!-- PLEASE don't try this with a new partner until you find out how he feels about it! This is one way to rape a man-- and I go slowly with him... and if he says no-- even in his sleep-- I stop. Most of the time, this is his favorite wake up call, though
Subject: #6# Gifts From: wong@bullet.ecf.toronto.edu (WONG Peter Chih Chen) @}-,-`--- @}-,-`--- subject: Teddy Bears A way to deliver your gift: I strapped the first one I gave her into the passenger seat of my car, and I told her I was bringing a friend to meet her but to be cautious because he's very shy and a lot younger. So she approached the car very timidly when I picked her up and she got confused when she couldn't see anyone as we approached the car. When I opened the door and introduced her, her reaction was wonderful. --Peter From: mlb@cisco.com (Marcia Bednarcyk) @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`- @}- Ah, holiday and birthday gifts. They're fraught with such meaning, which makes getting the "perfect" thing at the right time so "important". I use quotes deliberately, because we tend to blow these things up way out of proportion. Here are my list of suggestions for gift giving. Take them as you will, they seem to work ok for me. BTW, I'm assuming at this point you've decided that you would like to give your SO a gift for whatever reason :-). 1. Reduce the importance of the occasion, and give up the quest for the "perfect" gift. This is the hardest part, I know, because you want the person to be delighted with the gift. Remind yourself that if s/he isn't delighted, it's not the end of the world. (If it is, you have more problems than a gift will solve.) Remember: panic makes it harder to choose a gift :-). 2. Start thinking about gifts early. This gives you time to think about what you want to get, your price range, and if you happen to see the "perfect" thing you can get it when you see it. 3. Here's the real work: *observe* your SO. What does s/he like that s/he doesn't have? What would make his/her life easier? If you're at a friend's house, does s/he spend the whole time playing with/admiring/gushing over something? Is there something that consistently catches his/her eye when you're shopping together? Does s/he keep mentioning a certain thing? This is the real secret, since it allows you to find out what s/he really likes. And it is hard, since it requires you to listen, observe, and remember without taking notes. I got into this habit early, since I have a few people I like to give things to who are impossible to buy for. But I get ideas all year long by watching and listening, and generally I do pretty well. For example, 2 years ago I saw the books of the Monty Python scripts and got them for a dyed in the wool Monty Python friend who I knew didn't know they were out. He loved them :-). And last year I was given a watch that I have loved for ages but never got around to getting for myself for various reasons. 4. Help out your SO. If they've ever lamented that you're difficult to get things for, drop a few hints. Mention you like something, or something else would be really useful. Miss Manners may frown, but in the past I have been so grateful for any help. 5. If you're really, really stuck, ask your SO what s/he would like. Most common answer is "You don't have to get me anything", which, of course, you don't listen to at all. Better to ask "What have been your favorite presents" or "What do you think of <something>?" or anything to get the conversational ball rolling. Hopefully you can pick up the clues there. 6. If all else fails, there's always a romantic dinner/picnic, flowers, or candy. Assuming your SO likes those kinds of things ;-). What it all comes down to really is knowing your SO, what s/he likes, and tailoring the gift within your time and budget constraints to those likes. From: mlhoward@unix.amherst.edu (Meredith Howard) @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`--- subject: Romantic Care Package > >Hello all! > > I'm a college sophmore and my boyfriend and I go to separate > >schools. ONe of the things we do to keep the romance going is to send > >each other romantic care packages every now and then. The thing is, > >I am starting to run out of ideas. In the past we have sent each other > >romantic music mixes, candy, stuffed animals, red ribbons for tying > >letters togehter, flowers, even pizza on one occasion. ANd lots of > >cards. If anyone has more ideas for relatively inexpensive but romantic > >things I could send my sweety, I would very much appreciate it. I have > >great faith in the ability of this group's readers to come up with some > >wonderful suggestions. :) > > Thanks! Meredith > > Well, I got some awesome responses alright. I think it's only fair that I post them for everyone to share. I think I've got everything everyone mailed to me, but if I forgot one please post the addition- they were all neat. 1. Have a friend take lots of pictures of you doing fun things while you and your SO are apart. Then, find some pictures of your SO and insert him/her into all the ones of you having fun. 2. Make a tape of yourself talking, singing, or telling a favorite bedtime story. By the way, does anyone have any suggestions for good bedtime stories? :) 3. Get access to a cool graphics program and a scanner, and make an official certificate saying "World's Best Boyfriend/Girlfriend", with your SO's pictureon it. 4. Make something childishly creative, using Elmer's glue and construction paper. 5. Send a lock of your hair, esp. if it's in a plastic envelope that they can carry in their wallet. 6. Send a lipstick imprint of your lips, lamenated, that they could keep with them. 7. Send the most romantic candy- hershey's kisses, and it's new complement, hershey's hugs. 8. Take pictures of you doing really ordinary things that will make your SO think of all the little things that are so nice about being together. Even stuff like brushing your teeth is good. 9. Make a little book complete with illustrations of what you have been doing over the past week. I think these were all great because they are all very personal, and most are things that involve time and energy, but not necessarily a lot of money. They are also the kind of things that you would want to keep and remember for a long time. Thanks to everyone who contributed. --- Meredith
Subject: #7# Flowers and their meaning From: ae498@yfn.ysu.edu (Dawn Bott) @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,- [...] this whole flower language started in Constantinople in the 1600s, and was brought to England in 1716 by Lady Mary Wortley Montagu who had spent time in Turkey with her husband. The interest then moved to France (of course) where the Book Le Langage des Fleurs was printed with over 800 floral signs. Many were toned down in the English translation at the time of Queen Victoria because they were quite lusty and risque! (aww..wish i could get my hands on an original Frence copy!!) anyway...here are a few "nice" ones.. [...] White rosebud - heart ignorant of love Crocus - abuse not Rhubarb (!) - advice Indian jasmine - attachment Holly - Am I forgotten Deep red carnation - Alas! for my poor heart Deep red rose - bashful shame Full red rose - beauty Burgndy rose - unconscious beauty (hmm?) Unique rose - call me not beautiful Turnip(!) - charity Chrysanthemum - cheerfulness in old age Buttercup - childishness Great yellow daffodil - chivalry Lettuce - coldheartedness (i guess! [iceberg..get it?] ;) Moss rosebud - confession of love Red poppy - consolation Red tulip - declaration of love yellow sweetbrier or yellow rose - decrease of love Mistletoe - difficulties, I surmount Yellow carnation - rue, distain Thornless rose - early attachment Anemone - expectation Scarlet poppy - extravagance, fantastic Blue violet - faithfulness Purple lilac - first emotions of love Forget-me-not - hmm....gee? Damask rose - freshness White rose - i am worthy of you Peach blossom - i am your captive Iris - i have a message for you White daisy - innocence yellow rose - jealousy dandelion - love's oracle Lotus flower - estranged love Ivy - marriage Provence rose - my heart is in flames yellow iris - passion Dog rose - pleasure and pain Christmas rose - relieve my anxiety Filbert - reconciliation Spanish jasmine - sensuality Peony - shame White poppy - sleep yellow chrysanthemum - slighted love Amarylis - splendid beauty Honeyflower - sweet and secret love Pansy - thoughts Zinnia - thoughts of absent friends Forget-me-not also means true love White and red rose together - unity Parsley - useful knowledge Pink carnation - woman's love lady slipper - win me and wear me (i swear that's what it says!) Marigold - vulger minded Rosemary - your presence revives me Ice plant - your looks freeze me From: barrett@server.cs.jhu.edu (Dan Barrett) @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-- FLOWER IT MEANS... =========================================================================== Red rose Love Yellow rose Friendship White rose Fear Pink rose Indecision Green rose I am from Mars Lily I am dead Dandelion I am very cheap Dandelion going to seed I am very cheap and I am dead Buttercup I do/don't like butter (rubbed on chin) Chrysanthemum I have periodontal disease Carnation I ripped this off of some guy's tuxedo Posey I want sex immediately Daisy I want sex immediately with a large yak Sunflower I am hungry Crabgrass I just escaped from a mental institution Scallion I am clueless From: jggoslin@vela.acs.oakland.edu (The Seventh Stranger) @}-,-`-- @}-,-`--- The Language of Flowers. Flowers may be combined and arranged so as to express even the nicest shades of sentiment. If a flower is offered ``reversed'', its direct signification is likewise reversed, so that the flower now means the opposite. A rosebud divested of its thorns, but retaining its leaves, convays the sentiment, ``I fear no longer; I hope.'' Stripped of leaves and thorns, it signifies, ``There is nothing to hope or fear.'' A full-blown rose places over two buds, signifies ``Secrecy.'' `` Yes,'' is implied by touching the flower given to the lips; ``No,'' by pinching off a petal and casting it away. `` I am,'' is expressed by a laurel leaf twined arround the bouquet; ``I have,'' by an ivy leaf folded together; ``I offer you,'' by a leaf of Virginia creeper. COMBINATIONS. Moss Rosebud and Myrtle. A confession of love. Mignonette and Coloured Daisy. Your qualities surpass your charms of beauty. Lily of the Valley and Ferns. Your unconscious sweetness has fascinated me. Yellow Rose, Broken Straw and Ivy. Your jealousy has broken our friendship. Scarlet Geranium, Passion Flower, Purple Hyacinth, and Arbor Vitae. I trust you will find consolation, through faith, in your sorrow; be assured of my unchanging friendship. Columbine, Day Lily, Broken Straw, Witch Hazel and Coloured Daisy. Your folly and coquetry have broken the spell of your beauty. White Pink, Canary Grass and Laurel. Your talent and perseverance will win you glory. Golden-rod, Monkshead, Sweet Pea and Forget-me-not. Be cautious; danger is near; I depart soon; forget me not. ABOR VITAE - Unchanging friendship. CAMELIA, WHITE. - Loveliness. CANDY-TUFF. - Indifference. CARNATION, DEEP RED. - Alas! for my poor heart. CARNATION, WHITE. - Distain. CHINA-ASTER. - Variety. CLOVER, FOUR-LEAF. - Be mine. CLOVER, WHITE. - Think of me. CLOVER, RED. - Industry. COLUMBINE. - Folly. COLUMBINE, PURPLE. - Resolved to win. DAISY. - Innocence. DEAD LEAVES. - Sadness. DEADLY NIGHTSHADE. - Falsehood. FERN. - Fascination. FORGET-ME-NOT. - True love. Forget me not. FUCHSIA, SCARLET. - Taste. GERANIUM, SCARLET. - Consolation. GERANIUM, ROSE. - Preference. GOLDEN-ROD. - Be cautious. HELIOTROPE. - Devotion. HONEY-FLOWER. - Love, sweet and secret. HYACINTH, WHITE. - Unobtrusive loveliness. IVY. - Fidelity. LADY'S SLIPPER. - Win me and wear me. LILY, DAY. - Coquetry LILY, WHITE. - Sweetness. LILY, YELLOW. - Gaiety. LILY OF THE VALLEY. - Return of happiness. MIGNONETTE. - Your qualities surpass your charms. MONKSHEAD. - Danger is near. MYRTLE. - Love. OATS. - The witching soul of music. ORANGE BLOSSOMS. - Chastity. PANSY. - Thoughts. PASSION FLOWER. - Faith. PEACH BLOSSOM. - I am your captive. PEAR. - Affection. PRIMROSE. - Inconstancy. QUAKING GRASS. - Agitation. ROSE. - Love. ROSE, DEEP RED. - Bashful shame. ROSE, YELLOW. - Jealousy. ROSE, WHITE. - I am worthy of you. ROSEBUD, MOSS. - Confession of love. SHAMROCK. - Lightheartedness. STRAW. - Agreement. STRAW, BROKEN. - Broken agreement. SWEEP PEA. - Depart. TUBEROSE. - Dangerous pleasures. VERBENA. - Prey for me. WITCH HAZEL. - A spell. @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- End of part 1 @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`-- @}-,-`- ______________________________________________________________________________ | Probably I won't be able to read e-mail after 2006-12-31 Henning Klaskala | because Germany plans to ban the poor from the internet | with an absurd broadcasting fee for "internet PCs". This E-Mail: | fee would raise my costs for internet access by >1000%. alt.romance.FAQ | I'll rather go into internet exile, trash my old PC and @online.de | hope that the fee will be declared unconstitutional soon.

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