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Archive-name: motorcycles/QuackFAQ
Posting-Frequency: monthly, near the 18th Last-modified: 1997/9/18 Version: 2.10 Expires: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 00:00:00 GMT See reader questions & answers on this topic! - Help others by sharing your knowledge
QuackFAQ -- Frequently Asked Questions about Ducati Motorcycles
Version 2.1
18 September 1997
Copyright 1994 (C) Jon Wright
Copyright 1997 (C) Robert Robillard
Hit count since 3 September 1997:
Welcome to the Ducati FAQ, a compendium of factoids culled from the many
musings and ramblings of knowledgeable individuals who have "been there,"
and some who just pose but happen to remember the best parts. While we
believe this information to be correct, keep in mind that this is an
"Everyman's Truth," gained by hearsay outside of official channels, and
could be somewhat inaccurate. However, this information can be extremely
useful...just take it for what it's worth and check your information with
reliable sources before doing anything expensive or life-threatening. And
when you find out more or different information, post it to the list so
that everyone else can scam it.
No doubt there are gaps in the information provided, and some may now be
out of date. Please send new information to the the Ducati List or to Duke
Robillard, duke@io.com (that's me!). Also, the information appears to favor
the "rubberbandheads," belt-driven Ducatis of recent vintage. Again, this
is not intentional but a by-product of the list's content. Send me other
info, and I'll put it in.
This FAQ was originally built by the estimatible Jon Wright, in whose debt
we all remain. Jon acknowledged his debt to the many who have helped with
and contributed to this FAQ, giving particular thanks to Michael Nelson,
Tom Dietrich, Godfrey DiGiorgi, Mike Lee, Brad Turner, Bob Koure, Sheri
Coble, Ian Gunn, Ed Hackett, Beth "Wolverine" Dixon, TJ "Teej" Noto and Ed
"Gooz" Guzman for their contributions and support. In addition, Niclas
Cederlund and Vicki Smith have done a great deal for online Ducatisti.
Michael Nelson converted the FAQ to HTML, and Niclas Cederlund has done
work updating that HTML.
The information in this FAQ is supplied "as is" without express or implied
warranty. Parts of this work are Copyright (c) 1994 by Jon Wright, parts
are Copyright (c) 1997 by Robert Robillard.
A new version of this document usually appears monthly, sometime around the
18th. It was last modified on September 18, 1997, and its travels may have
taken it far from its original home on Usenet. It may now be out-of-date,
particularly if you are looking at a printed copy or one retrieved from a
tertiary archive site or CD-ROM. You can always obtain the most up-to-date
copy on the WWW at http://www.io.com/~duke/QuackFAQ.htm. There is also a
copy on Niclas Cederlund's Site, http://www.micapeak.com/Ducati/ Lastly, A
draft of the next version is usually on
http://www.io.com/~duke/QuackFAQ-beta.htm. This is the "Beta"
version...it's got stuff I'm working on and it could very well be broken at
any given time.
This article was produced for free redistribution. You should not need to
pay anyone for a copy of it. This FAQ may be freely distributed in its
entirety provided that this copyright notice is not removed. It may not be
sold for profit nor incorporated in commercial documents without the
author's written permission. So there....
TABLE OF CONTENTS
1. "My brakes squeal. Is there anything I can do to restore my dignity?"
2. "My brakes really suck; what can I do to improve their performance?
Add-ons?"
3. "What's the best way to bed in my new brake pads?"
4. "Can my rotors be re-turned?"
5. "Should I use DOT 3, 4 or 5 brake fluid when replacing?"
6. "How do I remove that friggin' retaining pin out of my Brembo calipers
to get the brake pad out?"
7. "Can I convert my 750ss' front disk arrangement to dual disks?"
8. "How long should the choke be engaged while warming up my Duck?"
9. "I've been told recently that the previous 3000 mi. interval between
valve adjustments has just been upped by Cagiva to 5000 mi. Is this true?"
10. "What kind of servicing is due at 12000 miles?"
11. "Do you have to read Italian to understand the shop manual?"
12. "I pulled my plugs recently and while the tips were dry and dark with
the porcelain a brownish color, both had this oily film on the threads.
Should I be worried?"
13. "What kind of chain should I use for my 900cc bike?"
14. "My Duck's dry clutch seems to moan and groan a lot. Should I opt for
the Barnett or what?"
15. "Are dry clutches inherently finicky? If so, why did Ducati put them on
their bikes?"
16. "What is the best way to break in my new bike's motor? I've heard that
a petroleum-based oil is best for the break-in period, but then I should
switch to a synthetic oil. Is this true?"
17. "Which oil is best for my Duck? Can I use car oils?"
18. "Should I worry about that white scum that seems to appear inside the
oil sight glass?"
19. "Should I be worried about my crankcase breather seeping, specifically
a light mist on the back side of the engine case, between the right
swingarm pivot and the clutch cover?"
20. "Do most of you guys have the European kickstand that automatically
flicks up when the bike is straightened up?"
21. "Where can I get OEM and aftermarket Ducati parts and accessories?"
22. "Which tailpieces are most commonly used by other Monster [M900] riders
and how were they set up?"
23. "Do I really need a steering damper on my Monster [M900]?"
24. "What kind of performance increase can be expected from going to the
Ferracci/Staintune/Termignoni/CarbonTech/etc. exhaust canisters?"
25. "The shop is recommending Dynojetting and changing the pipes. How much
performance will this buy me? Are there other things I can do?"
26. "My fuel-injected Ducati seems to pop a lot when I'm accelerating; no
smoke, just noise. Is it too lean? What is the equivalent of rejetting the
carburetors for highly-evolved steed?"
27. "I hear there are better plugs than the factory recommends, some type
of extended nose plugs. True?"
28. "Is there anything I should know regarding touch-up paint application?"
29. "To remove the unneeded stickers on the tank and other places, is the
best way to warm them with a hair dryer and peel gently?"
30. "How do I remove my in-line filter that lives INSIDE my gas tank?"
31. "What is the 5mm Allen key trick that everyone talks about?"
32. "Do I really have to remove the radiator on my water-cooled Ducati to
adjust the horizontal cylinder's valves?"
33. "I just noticed that greyish smoke is coming out of my exhaust pipes
when I close the throttle. I heard there was a problem with valve guides
wearing prematurely on later Ducatis. Is this the cause? How can I tell on
mine if it doesn't smoke?"
34. "Loctite comes in so many different colors (strengths). Which color do
I use for my particular application?"
35. "I seem to have a charging problem on my fuel-injected Ducati
(907ie/851/888 etc.). Even when ridden daily, the battery seems to need a
charge every few days or so. Is this common, and what can I do about it?"
36. "I signed up for Reg Pridmore's CLASS, a high-performance school. What
kind of prepping do I need to do to my bike before I get there? What can I
expect?"
37. "What kind of luggage can I get for my sport-tourer?"
38. SUMMARY -- Favorite Modifications and Changes Seen on the Ducati List,
by Model and more or less in Order of Importance.
39. "I have one of the Weber-carburetted Ducatis (Paso 750/906, 750 Sport)
and it's driving me crazy trying to keep it in tune. Is there any hope?"
40. "Can vertically challenged [re: short] people still ride Ducatis?"
41. "Where can I get neat Ducati pictures to drool over?"
42. If you can't afford a Ducati, but still have Duc-lust...
43. Shameless quickie product endorsements.
44. Nifty tricks, tips and mods every self-respecting Ducati owner ought to
know about.
45. PRODUCT WARNINGS!
46. Where's the Ducati Newsgroup/Mailing List?
47. "What would you do for a 916?"
48. "Any words of wisdom about leaky clutch slave cylinders and rebuilding
them?"
49. "Can you find Neutral on your Duc?"
50. "Where can I get stickers?"
51. "So, is there a big long list of what non-standard parts you can use on
your duck?"
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ARCHIVES
If you can't find what you search for in the heading above, you might want
to try searching the Ducati Mailinglist Archives:
SENDER Enter the sender or subject or text you
SUBJECT wish to look for. Help available.
BODY
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1. "My brakes squeal. Is there anything I can do to restore my dignity?"
Squeal can be caused by the vibrating of some mass, in this case, hard or
soft spots or hot/cold spots in the disk material, warped disks, or glazed
pads. There can be other causes too numerous to mention. Two possible
solutions to change the vibration frequency:
A) Damp the vibrating brake pad with a copper shim or some type of goo.
This'll change the frequency enough that it will pass out of the annoying
range (for you, maybe not for dogs and deer). The copper shim between the
piston and pad back decouples the the high frequency vibration that is
being transmitted as "squeal," the copper acting as a bearing surface.
B) Lubricate the BACK side of the pads; in theory this just lets them move
more freely and go past the annoying range. Some folks have tried sanding
the pads on a flat surface using 80-40 grit sandpaper to break the
occasional glaze, chamfering the leading edge of the pad by about 15
degrees or so.
Return to the Table of Contents
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2. "My brakes really suck; what can I do to improve their performance?
Add-ons?"
(Thanks to Michael Nelson, nelson@seahunt.imat.com, and Julian Bond,
julian@shockwav.demon.co.uk, for help on this one.)
Before you contemplate investing serious money in add-ons that may or may
not make that much of a difference, start with the basics first; they're
less expensive (usually) and can make all the difference in the world. The
items you can try below assumes there aren't more serious maintenance
issues like deteriorated seals, minor rust in the master cylinder or just
plain crap in the lever pivot.
1) First, just bleed 'em and replace the fluid with some good DOT 4 stuff.
Flush 'em out real good, and clean the dust and crap out of the caliper(s).
Make sure when you bleed them that you get ALL the air out; often a bubble
will get caught in fittings and in the "L" junction where it goes into the
master cylinder. Removing the master cylinder from the bars and tapping on
it with something like a plastic screwdriver handle while bleeding them
will often dislodge such bubbles.
Bubbles often get caught at the junction with the M/C. One way to clear
them is to go through the normal bleeding procedure and then bleed the
brakes from the bottom up. You can do this by leaning the bike on its
sidestand with the forks hard left. This gets the reservoir to the top of
the system. Then gently pull the pads back, this forces fluid up the lines
taking the bubbles with it. You can actually do this with the calipers in
position with a mole wrench but use a bit of cloth over the caliper so you
don't mark it. Its really easy to squirt fluid everywhere from the
reservoir so don't fill it too full and put the cover on first.
Some people have had success leaving the bike overnight with a bungee cord
round the brake lever which also seems to persuade the bubbles to move.
2) While you're at it, get some fine emery paper and lightly sand the
rotor(s). The key word is LIGHTLY. You don't want to sand in some low
spots; just get the glaze off of them. Make sure they aren't warped by
inspecting them laid down on a perfectly flat surface, and that they are
within the proper limits for thickness. Better yet, have someone make the
inspection for you -- how many folks actually have something that's
perfectly flat?
3) Check the pads. Make sure they aren't glazed, and if you didn't break
them in properly (see Paul Thompson's excellent piece on breaking in new
pads, included in this FAQ) put new ones in and break THEM in properly.
4) Lube the lever pivot points to make sure everything is moving freely.
If, after all of the above, the lever still feels mushy, it could be a good
excuse to ante up some money and swap your rubber brake lines for braided,
stainless ones.
It seems that the stock Brembo pads aren't very good at dissipating heat.
When they get hot, they get the brake fluid hot. When the brake fluid gets
hot, the lines can get warm and spongy feeling. This can manifest itself as
FADE. Riders have reported that the lever can, in fact, come all the way
back to the bars over extended hard uses when the fluid temps get elevated.
This is bad. Try different brands of pads -- EBC, Ferodo, SBS all make pads
for the Brembo calipers.
The absolute last thing to try would be either replacing the rotors with
cast iron ones, or replacing the master cylinder with a larger one. This is
a last resort, and not for the weak of wallet. Definitely try all the other
stuff first -- a complete set of lines including two for the front brake
rotors, one for the rear and one for the clutch runs about $150 as of this
writing, not counting installation. Opt for Kevlar if you can afford it.
If you've done all that and you've still got mushy brakes that drive you
crazy, you can put on a racing Brembo or AP Master Cylinder, or a Nissin
Master Cylinder, like the one from the Kawasaki ZX-7R. I hear this is
actually the setup Doug Polen used in 1993 to win the World Superbike
Championship on the 888.
The reason this works is likely because the Nissan master cyclinder has a
larger piston (5/8") than the stock Brembo. Word is that up to '97 (98?)
almost all Ducatis have had a M/C with too small a bore. The larger bore
means the lever harder to pull, but it flows more hydralic fluid, which
moves the calipers faster. Consequently, the lever doesn't need to move as
much, which eliminates what we call "sponginess" and prevents the lever
from coming all the way to the bar.
People have successfully used the master cylinder from the 1992 ZX-7R (not
the ZX-7, but the ZX-7R, the race replica version), and from a 1994 ZX-7. I
also heard that all the ZX-7 master cylinders with remote reservoirs are
the same between 1992 and 1995, which seems likely. I even got a part
number: 43015-1392.
The reservoir should be < $85 used. Two guys bought new ones from Crazy
Caton's (a mail order parts place, 800-745-BIKE) for $135. Someone else
used East Coast Warehouse (800-544-4814) and it came to $145, including the
banjo bolt (see below).
This has been done on 888's, 916's and 900ss's. Someone also put a ZX6
master cylinder on a Monster. I've come to suspect that any good Japanese
master cylinder would work on any Duc, but those are the ones I got reports
on.
You need a new banjo bolt; the one on the Duc's Brembo master cylinder
doesn't fit the Nissan. (The banjo bolt is the funky bolt that connects the
brake lines to the master cylinder. It's hollow, and brake fluid flows
through it). Lockhart Phillips has cool ones with a built-in bleeders for
about $20. You also need a new brake lever; the Brembo lever doesn't fit.
You need to come up with a support for the remote reservoir; it doesn't
come with one. People have done a number of things: used the support from a
CBR900RR, adapted the Duc support, fabricated something, or re-used the
remote reservoir from the Brembo system with the new Nissan caliper.
The actual work of replacing the cyclinder is pretty straightforward: take
off all your body work (brake fluid eats paint, and you'll spill some),
drain the Brembo, take it off, put the other one on, and bleed it 8 or 10
times. :-> On 916's, there's a little locating pin on the handlebar to
position the cylinder, and keep it from rotating. A cavity in the ZX7
cylinder fits over the pin, but not firmly. One guy filled the cavity with
expoxy to get a good fit.
Return to the Table of Contents
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3. "What's the best way to bed in my new brake pads?"
(Reprinted from an article by Paul Thompson, Apple Computer.)
Here's what I do, with good results:
1) After mounting the new pads, ride around a bit and apply the brakes
often but not too hard, to make sure they're in place correctly.
2) Now find a long, fairly straight section of road where you can safely
travel about 35 MPH. Select a gear which is about halfway to redline. Drag
your brake (do the front and rear separately) as you apply throttle. Keep
doing this until you feel the brakes start to fade. You'll probably smell
them about this time too.
3) Get off the brake, speed up to about 70, and then brake hard again using
only that brake. Repeat one more time.
4) Continue riding without using that brake to allow it to cool completely.
What's this all about? I'm told that the process of getting the pads very
hot (called "green-fading") bakes away the adhesives near the surface of
the pad which interfere with full braking. As the pads wear, the adhesives
will recede naturally after the initial baking. I've used this procedure
every time I replace my pads, and have noticed vastly improved brakes each
time.
Return to the Table of Contents
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4. "Can my rotors be re-turned?"
Yes, bike rotors can be surface ground with a liquid cooled surface grinder
so long as they aren't thinner than specified in the shop manual after your
done. Surface grinding is more precise than turning. It will not, however
cure warped disks, so if that's the case, don't screw around with your life
and go get the new rotors. Note that if your rotors are vented, the vent
holes must be re-chamfered after grinding. If this isn't done properly, you
will have little hard spots around every hole. You'll feel this soon
enough.
Return to the Table of Contents
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5. "Should I use DOT 3, 4 or 5 brake fluid when replacing?"
(Thanks to Michael Ragsdale, from the race list, for some of this info.)
DOT 3 and DOT 4 are functionally very similar. 4 has a higher boiling
point, but motorcycle brake systems don't generate the kind of pressure and
temperatures that need it on the street, in general, although it certainly
won't hurt your system to put it in.
DOT 5 is very different--it's silicone based, doesn't absorb water, isn't
corrosive, is bad for some seals, is hard to bleed, and is not miscible
with 3 or 4. Stay away from it--it needs a system designed for it. And it
comes as stock item in Harley's, so it must be terrible. :->
DOT 5.1 is compatible with DOT 3 & DOT 4 (If I ever get hold of the
bonehead who named DOT 5.1...)
Here's more detail than you really want:
DOT3 is an aliphatic polyether.
DOT4 is borate ester based.
DOT5 is polydimethylsiloxane (silicone based).
DOT5.1 is borate ester based, thus its compatibility with DOT3 and
DOT4.
More information can be obtained from the following standards documents:
DOT3: SAE J1703
DOT4: FMVSS 116; proposed SAE standard J1704
DOT5: SAE J1705
DOT5.1: No SAE spec
If you are interested in obtaining copies of these standards documents, you
may order them directly from SAE at
http://www.sae.org/PRODSERV/STANDARD/gv/179.htm
According to DOT Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards specification
49CFR571.116 (which refers to SAE documents J1703, J1704, J1705), the
minimum equilibrium reflux boiling point requirement in deg C for each is:
DOT 3 205
DOT 4 230
DOT 5 260
DOT 5.1 260
This shows that, all else remaining the same, DOT 5.1 has a significant
advantage in heat capacity over DOT 4. Note that these specifications are
for completely dry (no H2O content) brake fluid.
Of course, all else does not remain the same and other than boiling points
and H2O content (which is very detailed in itself), most other properties
were beyond the scope of testing/interest of my friend. Any other
information should be gained from SAE, DOT or other authority.
Return to the Table of Contents
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6. "How do I remove that friggin' retaining pin out of my Brembo calipers
to get the brake pad out?"
Basically, you drive it out from the WHEEL side of the caliper using a
punch. It has a spring collett on the outer end that fits into a recess on
the caliper. Looks kinda like this:
/ \
===| |============= <---- drive it out from the INSIDE
===| |=============
\ / PIN
COLLETT
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7. "Can I convert my 750ss' front disk arrangement to dual disks?"
You can just install the second disk and caliper onto the 750ss but you
might find that the lever travel becomes great enough to bottom into the
bar. The 900ss master cylinder has a larger diameter and pushes more fluid,
giving you a little less travel to achieve the same pressure and a firmer
feel. Recommendations include switching to the one used on the 1994 750ss,
which is factory-equipped with dual front disks and uses a remote reservoir
master cylinder -- unfortunately not found in the States but possibly could
be sourced.
When the second brake assembly and stainless lines are installed (you WILL
install stainless steel lines with this, right?), be sure that they are
bled very thoroughly. The recommendation from PI Motorsports and BTF Motors
is to use a vacuum bleeder for the best results. The design of the brake
caliper and double banjo union off of the master cylinder makes it easy to
trap air bubbles, causing a terribly mushy feel. Slater Brothers sells a
kit containing a second disc, caliper, and line for $595 as of this
writing, which may be used on the 750ss. This price doesn't include the
16mm master cylinder, but you can purchase one from them for $150.
Slater Bros.
POB 1,
Mica, WA 99023
(509) 924-5131
If after reading the above you didn't want to go to all that trouble, you
might think about just adding the stainless lines and 16mm master cylinder.
There is as least one poster who is very happy with this.
Return to the Table of Contents
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8. "How long should the choke be engaged while warming up my Duck?"
Generally, not very long, just enough until you can keep it going without
it. This can be anywhere from a few seconds to one or two minutes,
depending on the clime. You can feel the side of the cooling fins on air-
cooled models for the beginnings of warmth. When you DO get it to sustain
an idle, start riding but don't rev the motor until it's fully warmed up as
the oil isn't really circulating in the mechanical bits yet, about 10 to 15
minutes or so. An engine will warm up more quickly when it's got a light
load, as opposed to sitting idling away.
No engine should ever be run on enrichened mixtures longer than necessary,
as this is a prescription for premature carbon deposits on your exhaust
valves. Note that fuel-injected bikes have a fast-idle setup, which
obviates worrying about the mixture; it turns off the cold start setup when
its good and ready and you only have control of the fast idle.
Return to the Table of Contents
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9. "I've been told recently that the previous 3000 mi. interval between
valve adjustments has just been upped by Cagiva to 5000 mi. Is this true?"
Yes. Recent service manuals have been updated to reflect a 4600 mi.
interval, despite the continuance of the 3K figure in the owner's manual.
And even better: as of 1996, Ducati has changed the recommended valve check
on 916 engines to 6,000 miles. there is no check at 600 miles any more, the
first one is at 6,000. supposedly they are running the engines in at the
factory and testing them before delivery.
The stability record of modern Duck valve clearances seems to be rather
high. Many folks are noting that clearances are retained well into the 10K
range. Keep in mind this all depends on usage -- racebikes can expect some
deviations from this due to the number of engine-hours spent at redline,
etc. However, pit crews ought to be checking this regularly, anyway, right?
Note that it wouldn't be out of the ordinary to find one right off,
however, so don't risk it. There's no guarantees that you'll be as lucky as
the next person. If you're perceptive, you can hear them click or jangle if
they get a little sloppy.
If you end up checking the valves yourself, there's a video made by PI
Motorsports just for you. It's probably worth checking out, as the most
important thing concerning valve clearances (and belts, too) is to keep on
top of a potentially expensive situation before it gets by you. If you find
that you, in fact, need to replace a shim upon inspection, the advice would
be to leave it torn down and take the bike to a Ducati dealer you trust.
They have the replacements, and those don't come in all the incremental
sizes so some grinding may be necessary to get the precise fit necessary.
With the bodywork off, you might save a little labor expense. As an
example, Dale at BTF Motors in Livermore charges $25 per shim for labor to
install one, whereas you can probably count on five to six hours of labor
if the nice expensive mechanic has to do the assembly/disassembly of really
simple things. Unless, of course, you really like your mechanic....
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10. "What kind of servicing is due at 12000 miles?"
At 12000 miles you should:
* change oil and filter
* check and adjust valves as necessary
* install new plugs
* re-trim EFI if necessary, including re-balance
* service fuel filter/air filter as required
* replace and set tensions on the cam drive belts
* lube and inspect all cables, bulbs, connections, etc....
It's probably also a really good idea to flush and bleed the brakes every
year, and relube the steering head and suspension pivot bearings. The 851
runs the swing arm pivot in the cases like the 750ss/900ss series bikes,
which don't need service, but you ought to lube the pivot bearings on the
rear suspension yearly. Finish it with flushing/refilling the fork
assembly, which is easier done pulling the fork legs off first
(facilitating lubing the steering head).
Return to the Table of Contents
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11. "Do you have to read Italian to understand the shop manual?" -- some
anecdotes to amuse you.
From: Ian Gunn (gunn@watson.ibm.com)
How else can you understand the owner's and shop manuals, or the parts
book? Certainly not by reading the purported English translation, with its
references to 'pressostat', 'thermic group', 'drain tube', etc. Only by
reading the Italian in the 851 manual was I able to discover that the
instructions for 'removing the motor together with the frame', which I
never wanted to do, were really instructions for removing the engine
complete FROM the frame, which was what I was trying to do all along.
Michael Nelson (nelson@seahunt.imat.com)
One problem I've run into with the service manuals is that in spite of the
fact that they have a very detailed chart in the back with torque settings,
it can be a real challenge to find the item you're looking for in the chart
due to the terminology. For instance, the torque for the intake and exhaust
manifold bolts is listed under "suction and discharge flange stud bolts."
Mike Lee (mikel@ichips.intel.com)
Oh yeah, also: "The absence of a heat exchange element between thermic mass
and radiant mass could cause an overheating in the piston-cylinder
assemblies with consequent seizures and, worse, damage to the crank
mechanism."
Oh, and does anyone have the correct torque setting for the six screws that
hold the clutch plates to the drum/basket? I can't seem to find that in the
torque listing sections or the clutch area. Or perhaps I didn't realize it
was listed as the "thermic unit to final drive coupling rotational
mass...." =8^)
and a final note from Julian Bond, julian@shockwav.demon.co.uk:
Highly recommended is the Haynes Manual for 600, 750, 900 2-valve twins '91
to '96. It's ISBN 1 85960 290 8. Details on http://www.haynes.com
Return to the Table of Contents
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12. "I pulled my plugs recently and while the tips were dry and dark with
the porcelain a brownish color, both had this oily film on the threads.
Should I be worried?"
Probably not. This can happen from time to time on bikes (cars, too) with
no oil consumption at all. Many Ducati owners have noticed this phenomenon,
and it doesn't seem to correlate to any problem areas. As long as the
electrodes and the insulators look good, you can postulate a more realistic
picture of the health of the engine.
Return to the Table of Contents
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13. "What kind of chain should I use for my 900cc bike?"
(Thanks to Godfrey DiGiorgi for some exhaustive research on this whilst
recuperating.)
Ducati went to 520 size chains a few years ago to lighten the bikes and
allow for a wider tire. A 520 chain on a high output 900 class machine is
really a narrow, small chain for the application. Most older Duc twins have
530s. Consequently, if you're getting really good mileage out of your
chain, like over 10K or so, it must be a pretty damn good chain in OEM
specifications, right?
Ducati specs the DID brand 520VL for use with their big bikes -- SS,
851/888, 907, Monster. It's possible the 750's also use this chain as OEM.
This chain is a "special chain series" for DID, also including:
Model Plate Thickness Wear Resistance Tensile Stngth Wght
inner outer INDEX lbs. 100L
520VL .087 .087 2430 8100 3.88
520VM .079 .079 3140 8050 3.39
520ERV2 .079 .079 2820 8180 3.53
The VM is the X-Ring Gold premium chain and the ERV2 is for racing
applications, also gold but without any type of warranty on it's life. All
are only sold with press master link, by the way. From the DID data, we can
surmise the OEM chain that Ducati uses is inexpensive and gets good tensile
strength through thick link plates at the expense of some weight. A swap to
the VM or ERV2 chains will give effectively the same strength and
durability but will be lighter; of course, it'll also be more costly.
According to RK literature, they do not have a chain that matches the DID
specs in terms of tensile strength. While you can use one, keep in mind
that it will probably not last as long. RK is not fond of the clip master
link supplied with their GR520SO, the closest match, for the reason that it
is still slightly under spec.
Tsubaki recommends only the 520 Omega, with only 7600 lbs. of tensile
strength, again with a clip master link. The technical rep for Tsubaki said
that a more reliable press fit link could be had on special order, and in
fact would only make the recommendation with this link in mind. Tsubaki
differentiates their chains by using sintered pins that are also somewhat
larger than their competitors. For comparison purposes, the 530 Sigma chain
made for bikes like the CBR900RR has a tensile strength of 10,300 lbs.
Tsubaki makes a point of noting that Scott Russell used a Tsubaki chain on
his Kawasaki at Daytona this year, and Pascal Picotte, riding a Ducati, did
not. Russell won, obviously an endorsement for chains, but note also that
Picotte's broke in the melee, ending his race. Doug Polen used Tsubaki
Omega's for both his World Superbike and AMA Superbike winning seasons.
One poster related that he had good results racing his 851 using the
clip-style master links. There is a special tool that must be acquired to
put the clip on, however, as it is an interference fit. He recommends that
you clean the side plate and clip of the master link with lacquer thinner,
followed by a drop of superglue, before you put it on. Once in place, he
sticks some Permatex blue semi-hardening sealer over the clip and side
plate. The blue Permatex makes it easy to spot the link with the clip when
doing a pre-ride inspection, and the semi-hardening nature of the goop
makes it easy to see if there has been any relative movement between the
clip and the link. He has never had a problem with splitting links on his
racebikes.
Regina recommends their 135 ORS model, which has gold external links and
copper rollers. Link plates are .087" thick, both inner and outer, average
tensile strength is rated at 7510 lbs, and weight is .75 lbs per foot
length. Recommended fitment is with a press fit master link. They sell the
proper tools to assemble and fit both the clip and press fit master links,
should you choose.
Return to the Table of Contents
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14. "My Duck's dry clutch seems to moan and groan a lot. Should I opt for
the Barnett or what?"
You may just need the Ducati factory clutch update -- a factory upgrade to
the clutch pack for all '91 and '92 dry clutch machines that was made
standard on the '93s. The update kit is amusing: it's one plate, a special
slightly convex one, and instructions on how to reorder the plates in the
clutch pack. You take one out, you shuffle the deck and viola! smoother,
quieter engagement is supposed to result.
The '91 and '92 904cc motors were equipped with a clutch which had flat
pressure plates, dual sided friction plates, one convex pressure plate and
one specially thick, single sided friction plate. Somewhere around late '92
or early '93, Ducati revised the clutch pack. The revision is to toss the
thick friction plate, add another convex pressure plate, and shuffle the
pack a little bit. This upgraded clutch pack is a warranty/ upgrade item
and should be available free of charge from your dealer to my knowledge.
The new pack is installed thus:
(cover side -------> engine side)
Pp - Fr - Fl - Fr - Sp> - Fr - Fl - ... - Fr - <Sp - Fr - Fl - Fl - Ba
where:
Pp - Pressure Plate
Fr - dual sided friction plate
Fl - Flat pressure plate
Ba - clutch basket/hub
Sp - convex or spring pressure plate. These plates are distinguishable by a
single dot on one of the spline tangs, on one side only. The directional
arrow ("Sp>" or "<Sp") indicates which direction the dot should face.
... - continue alternating however many Fr and Fl plates in between.
Return to the Table of Contents
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15. "Are dry clutches inherently finicky? If so, why did Ducati put them on
their bikes?"
(from a discussion by Godfrey DiGiorgi (ramarren@apple.com), with comments
by Michael Nelson (nelson@seahunt.imat.com), and Tom Dietrich
(txd@mkt.3com.com)
From: Godfrey DiGiorgi
"The 750SS has a wet-clutch -- much less "grabby" and sensitive (especially
in traffic)."
I've heard this same myth over and over again, relating to more than just
Ducatis, and I'd like to set the record straight.
A dry clutch is not more grabby or more sensitive than a dry clutch, nor
can you slip a wet clutch more. The reason that race machines went to dry
clutches was to *improve* disengagement, reduce the amount of clutch
material infiltration into the lube system, and to allow cleaner, smoother
engagement through better cooling and less inter-plate stiction. Clutch
friction material is very abrasive and a major source of bearing wear if it
gets around the filtration in the lube system, a major cause of worry in
older engines without full flow filtration systems.
Wet clutches when slipped expand more because they can't shed heat as
quickly, and the oil stiction masks the chattering of disk/plates as well
as some characteristics of overheating. Just because you can't feel it
doesn't mean it isn't happening. Typically, a wet clutch capable of equal
power transmission at the limit requires more spring pressure to prevent
slippage and longer travel to ensure disengagement.
"Ducati clutches are particularly grabby"
The old bevel driver wet clutches were great, until the 900SS which
produced just enough more torque that there was inadequate spring pressure
to keep them from slipping under hard (ab)usage and inadequate mechanical
advantage to correct that without making them unbearably difficult to
operate for long periods. The solution was to go with a dry clutch for the
lighter spring pressure and cleaner disengagement; this was only done in
racing aftermarket kits and special factory racing fitments, however.
Ducati's clutches since the Pantah have been both wet and dry. The dry
style were typically fitted to the higher performance machines, the wet to
the economy models (it costs more gaskets and housings to isolate the
clutch). It's always been a light clutch for the power output of the
engine, and handicapped by the nearly ideal sporting gearbox (closely
spaced gears with a tall first) and the tall street gearing fitted (for
noise reasons). The detail implementation of the clutches has always been
problematic, both in actuation mechanism and in clutch pack design.
As such, none of them tolerate brutal slippage like an motocrosser well.
Not that kind of design; an motocrosser doesn't have as large a set of
power pulses to deal with, being a two stroke motor anyway. A clutch should
NOT be slipped unnecessarily in any case: just enough to get off the line,
just enough to get gears to mesh without strain or clashing. Slipping the
clutch on any machine is throwing the engine's output away as heat which
will affect some portion of the mechanical bits.
Small factors in the detail assembly of an individual clutch still make a
big difference. The clutch in my bike was actually quite good as delivered,
it would chatter only when oil wet and hot (failure of a small seal
accounting for that) but had a slightly harsh final engagement. It was also
quiet. The repair done to correct the oil seepage and the factory clutch
pack upgrade has now improved the clutch action to perfect, as best as ever
I've had on any bike. It does not chatter, even when abused through nasty
traffic, lever pressure is slightly reduced, engagement is broad but
secure. The downside is it's somewhat noisier. I spent probably 1.5 hours
just examining the clutch plates and assembling the pack into place -- very
small detail differences can make a big difference here. I spent a lot of
time making sure it was right, according to factory spec and my experience
as a mechanic. It works to my complete satisfaction.
Please, let's not propagate myth that dry clutches are finicky and wet
clutches are not. Dry clutches, from an engineering design standpoint, have
several advantages. Detail design implementation and individual assembly
make for large variances in the quality of an individual unit. With modern
materials and techniques available, you can design a clutch of either type
to suit the needs of the application well. How well you implement the
design, how well the assembly is completed will affect greatly the overall
quality of the component.
I opine that a novice rider on a modern Ducati will notice no difference at
all on a properly setup 900SS clutch vs the 750SS unit, it's just not a
valid criteria of differentiation for selection of a new machine. The 750SS
was the price leader in the '92-'93 range (now they have the 600SS in
europe as well, but the US market has dictated the 900SS CR instead). The
wet clutch was fitted as a cost-reducing measure, period: they already had
the design from several previous generations of wet-clutch Pantah motors.
But Michael Nelson disagrees:
Even the Ducati World SuperBike riders such as Polen and Fallappa have
trouble with THEIR Ducati dry clutches. I've read interviews with Polen
where he blamed the dry clutch (which incidentally on HIS bike was a
specially modified billet aluminum jobby.... the BEST one Ducati and Fast
By Ferracci know how to make, and LOTS more expensive than the ones that
come on the production bikes), for his consistently bad starts.
The Ducati dry clutches supplied on recent manufacture rubberband head
motor bikes are NOTORIOUS among the motorcycle press and among a large
percentage of owners as being quite funky in design and execution. While I
agree that a proper multiplate dry clutch CAN be designed (all the 2 stroke
125/250/500cc bikes use them), Ducati has yet to do so. These dry clutches
are especially silly on streetbikes.
Heck, all the Japanese manufacturers seem to be fully capable of designing
and executing wet clutches that are capable of reliably withstanding LOTS
more horsepower on MUCH heavier bikes (ie: the Kawasaki ZX-11, the Honda
CBR900RR, the Suzuki GSX-R1100, ad nauseum). And they still provide smooth,
progressive, easy to use operation with much less lever effort.
The Ducati dry clutch design is difficult to assemble correctly (even
Ducati themselves can't seem to get it right, and they've even revised the
design) , noisy, and it literally beats itself to death with all that
rattling. I had to replace my friction disks at around 5,000 miles, not
because the friction material was worn out but because the tangs on the
edges of the plates were mushroomed and flattened out. As they rattle, they
cause the mushrooming of the edges, that creates more clearance, which
creates more vigorous rattling, which creates more clearance, and so on.
In effect, they beat the crap out of themselves, the steel clutch basket,
and the aluminum clutch hub. You can't have all that rattling and banging
going on without SOMETHING getting damaged in the long run. It's a poor
implementation of a questionable design for a streetbike.
And Tom Dietrich chips in:
... the one point nearest and dearest to the hearts of race bike tuners
everywhere. The beloved and much sought after horsepower. Not having the
clutch spinning in that heavy oil frees up a couple of ponies for duty at
the rear wheel that were previously lost in the oil. Free ponies! It's
enough to make a grin come to the most stone faced tuner/builder.
Michael responds with:
True, and that's probably an advantage worth having on a racebike.
Especially because most roadrace bikes only have to start from a dead stop
once during a race, and they have the $$$ and time to tear the bike down
after each race and correct whatever may be wrong with the clutch. However,
I still maintain it's a silly feature for a streetbike, where reliability
and smoothness are considered more important by most people than a couple
extra ponies.
Finally, Godfrey rebuts:
... I didn't say that *Ducati's* clutch, any of them, was not finicky. I
said that a dry clutch was not in and of itself any more finicky than a wet
clutch, and that a properly installed and adjusted dry clutch was
indistinguishable to a novice from a wet clutch.... By the way, I've had
plenty of experience with blown and improperly assembled Honda, Kawi,
Suzuki and other clutches. I was a parts manager and freelance mechanic on
those machines for a total of about 3 years. They ain't poifect neither...
;) My VFR, Hawk, and CB750F clutches all needed 'clearing' first thing in
the morning, just like the Norton, and I managed to get the Hawk clutch to
slip a couple of times when I was being particularly abusive.
BMW, Guzzi and Morini are three other companies whose dry clutches I have
owned that come to mind immediately. The older BMWs have a somewhat sudden
engagement characteristic, the Guzzi a little less so, due to the high
rotational speed and the mass of the pieces not the fact they are dry. The
Morini I rode for about three weeks before I discovered it had a dry
clutch.
It all depends upon the individual design. The 'finickiness' is not endemic
to the type. With a proper design the action is indistinguishable. On the
Ducati, the clutch design is light and somewhat weak. When properly fitted
and adjusted, no novice can tell the difference. Again, I opine that a
novice rider on a modern Ducati will notice no difference at all on a
properly setup 900SS clutch vs the 750SS unit. It works like a clutch
should work, at least in street use.
The myth is that "dry clutches are finicky and wet clutches are not." The
fact that Pantah and later Ducati clutches, both wet and dry, are
problematic does not contradict this. Nor does the fact that a wet clutch
masks chattering and over-heating problem more effectively from the
operator.
"The beloved and much sought after horsepower."
Tom raises the point that a wet clutch will absorb more horsepower from
sloshing about in the oil. Again, this is a design detail problem, not an
factor inherent in the type. On certain machines where the clutch was
chain-driven from the crankshaft around the clutch basket, it was essential
that the chain dip into the lubricant, and the oil sling would indeed cost
some hp if you overfilled the lubricant. On most designs, this is not much
of a factor (note that very few wet clutches really sit in an oil bath,
they are just made such that oil splash necessary for lubrication to
portions of the drive mechanism can be in with the friction components. A
wet clutch will absorb horsepower but by adding heat to the oil more
likely.
"My dry clutch has lasted practically forever"
Mikhail reports that his modified clutch is hanging in there for 15000
miles so far. I report my 750gt clutch in my original long distance
traveler was in perfect condition condition at 60,000 miles (3mm acceptable
wear limit, less than .5mm measured at that point), and the last I heard
was that this same original 1975 clutch was still running strong at
100,000+ miles when last I heard from the bike's owner somewhere in 1988.
At 13,000 miles, the 907's clutch (all original pieces with the exception
of one new spring plate for the update and one oil seal) is in as new
condition with regard to wear: no warpage, no reduction in plate thickness,
springs at spec, just a little bit of chatter marking on the center driven
hub. I'll report how it fares over the next 13,000 miles. I use the bike
pretty hard but I don't abuse the clutch unnecessarily.
"The Pantah I have has a wet clutch and has hardly been touched for more
than 15K miles, while my 851's needed replacing after just 4K." A 40 hp
engine using a clutch of essentially the same design as a 90 hp engine, and
the 40 hp clutch doesn't wear out as quickly... sounds to me like the
design was probably set up for the 40 hp engine, and the reduced longevity
in the 90 hp case was a compromise result of wanting the same weight and
layout in a similar motor...
Such is as it is. I don't consider these machines to be perfect in any
way... if they were, why would I be looking forward to the next one? I
expect continuous improvements as new designs come around. Hopefully
they'll address the clutch someday soon and give the same perfect action
that mine has now with a bit more longevity and perhaps a little quieter
operation soon. Although I have little complain about, it'll appease those
who do.
Beth W. Dixon sez it best: "I don't care what's happening as long as I like
the feel (tm) of what's happening. A wet clutch may not be any better/worse
than a dry one, but I really didn't want one more thing I wasn't used to
when learning the Duc." I simply purport that if you have a properly setup
clutch on any Duc, Beth would be unable to tell the difference.
Return to the Table of Contents
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16. "What is the best way to break in my new bike's motor? I've heard that
a petroleum-based oil is best for the break-in period, but then I should
switch to a synthetic oil. Is this true?"
Opinions and lore abound on this issue, but the general consensus is that
the key to engine longevity is sticking to frequent oil and filter changes
using quality lubricants, petroleum or synthetic, roughly about every 2500
- 3000 miles. Another frequent tip that seems to be mentioned often is the
concept of varying the load against RPM, and watching the heat, during the
break-in. Vary the load on the engine, but be careful not to lug it. Take
the motor through the full range of RPM's using less than full throttle.
Slowly feeding a load on it now and then to bring it up to 5500-6000 for a
little bit, then backing off again is a good idea, as it helps the rings
break in. These engines in general really want to be running at 3000-3500
rpm at the low end. At any rate, don't let your right wrist get the better
of you -- there will be plenty of time to use full throttle once it's
broken in. Let the bike heat up to full operating temperature and then let
it quietly cool off. Do this often for the first 100 miles or so. Don't
ride in traffic or other situation which will force the bike to idle for
long periods of time -- MAJOR heat buildup!
Another frequent tip from the Net is to ignore the Slick 50.
Return to the Table of Contents
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17. "Which oil is best for my Duck? Can I use car oils?"
More Than You Ever Wanted to Know About Motor Oil.
by Ed Hackett (edh@maxey.unr.edu)
(Editor's Note: before you read all this, you might want to consider the
short answer from Julian Bond : "Pretty much any synthetic motorcycle oil
can be used such as Silkolene Pro-4 or the motorcycle version of Mobil 1.
The factory recommend Agip 4T Super racing which is a 5W/40 grade
synthetic." Personally, I think you can use any brand name, so long as you
change it every 6 weeks. :->)
Choosing the best motor oil is a topic that comes up frequently in
discussions between motoheads, whether they are talking about motorcycles
or cars. The following article is intended to help you make a choice based
on more than the advertising hype.
Oil companies provide data on their oils most often referred to as "typical
inspection data". This is an average of the actual physical and a few
common chemical properties of their oils. This information is available to
the public through their distributors or by writing or calling the company
directly. I have compiled a list of the most popular, premium oils so that
a ready comparison can be made. If your favorite oil is not on the list get
the data from the distributor and use what I have as a data base. This
article is going to look at six of the most important properties of a motor
oil readily available to the public: viscosity, viscosity index (VI), flash
point, pour point, % sulfated ash, and % zinc. Viscosity is the measure of
how thick an oil is. This is the most important property for an engine. An
oil with too low a viscosity can shear and loose film strength at high
temperatures. An oil with too high a viscosity may not pump to the proper
parts at low temperatures and the film may tear at high rpm.
The weights given on oils are arbitrary numbers assigned by the S.A.E.
(Society of Automotive Engineers). These numbers correspond to "real"
viscosity, as measured by several accepted techniques. These measurements
are taken at specific temperatures. Oils that fall into a certain range are
designated 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 by the S.A.E. The W means the oil meets
specifications for viscosity at 0 F and is therefore suitable for Winter
use.
The following chart shows the relationship of "real" viscosity to their
S.A.E. assigned numbers. The relationship of gear oils to engine oils is
also shown.
_____________________________________________________________
| |
| SAE Gear Viscosity Number |
| ________________________________________________________ |
| |75W |80W |85W| 90 | 140 | |
| |____|_____|___|______________|________________________| |
| |
| SAE Crank Case Viscosity Number |
| ____________________________ |
| |10| 20 | 30 | 40 | 50 | |
| |__|_____|____|_____|______| |
|_____________________________________________________________|
2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20 22 24 26 28 30 32 34 36 38 40 42
viscosity cSt @ 100 degrees C
Multi viscosity oils work like this: Polymers are added to a light base
(5W, 10W, 20W), which prevent the oil from thinning as much as it warms up.
At cold temperatures the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow
as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up the polymers begin to
unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it
normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C the oil has thinned
only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of
looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that
will not thin more than a 50 weight would when hot.
Multi viscosity oils are one of the great improvements in oils, but they
should be chosen wisely. Always use a multi grade with the narrowest span
of viscosity that is appropriate for the temperatures you are going to
encounter. In the winter base your decision on the lowest temperature you
will encounter, in the summer, the highest temperature you expect. The
polymers can shear and burn forming deposits that can cause ring sticking
and other problems. 10W-40 and 5W-30 require a lot of polymers (synthetics
excluded) to achieve that range. This has caused problems in diesel
engines, but fewer polymers are better for all engines. The wide viscosity
range oils, in general, are more prone to viscosity and thermal breakdown
due to the high polymer content. It is the oil that lubricates, not the
additives. Oils that can do their job with the fewest additives are the
best.
Very few manufactures recommend 10W-40 any more, and some threaten to void
warranties if it is used. It was not included in this article for that
reason. 20W-50 is the same 30 point spread, but because it starts with a
heavier base it requires less viscosity index improvers (polymers) to do
the job. AMSOIL can formulate their 10W-30 and 15W-40 with no viscosity
index improvers but uses some in the 10W-40 and 5W-30. Mobil 1 uses no
viscosity improvers in their 5W-30, and I assume the new 10W-30. Follow
your manufacturer's recommendations as to which weights are appropriate for
your vehicle.
Viscosity Index is an empirical number indicating the rate of change in
viscosity of an oil within a given temperature range. Higher numbers
indicate a low change, lower numbers indicate a relatively large change.
The higher the number the better. This is one major property of an oil that
keeps your bearings happy. These numbers can only be compared within a
viscosity range. It is not an indication of how well the oil resists
thermal breakdown.
Flash point is the temperature at which an oil gives off vapors that can be
ignited with a flame held over the oil. The lower the flash point the
greater tendency for the oil to suffer vaporization loss at high
temperatures and to burn off on hot cylinder walls and pistons. The flash
point can be an indicator of the quality of the base stock used. The higher
the flash point the better. 400 F is the minimum to prevent possible high
consumption. Flash point is in degrees F.
Pour point is 5 degrees F above the point at which a chilled oil shows no
movement at the surface for 5 seconds when inclined. This measurement is
especially important for oils used in the winter. A borderline pumping
temperature is given by some manufacturers. This is the temperature at
which the oil will pump and maintain adequate oil pressure. This was not
given by a lot of the manufacturers, but seems to be about 20 degrees F
above the pour point. The lower the pour point the better. Pour point is in
degrees F.
% sulfated ash is how much solid material is left when the oil burns. A
high ash content will tend to form more sludge and deposits in the engine.
Low ash content also seems to promote long valve life. Look for oils with a
low ash content.
% zinc is the amount of zinc used as an extreme pressure, anti-wear
additive. The zinc is only used when there is actual metal to metal contact
in the engine. Hopefully the oil will do its job and this will rarely
occur, but if it does, the zinc compounds react with the metal to prevent
scuffing and wear. A level of .11% is enough to protect an automobile
engine for the extended oil drain interval, under normal use. Those of you
with high revving, air cooled motorcycles or turbo charged cars or bikes
might want to look at the oils with the higher zinc content. More doesn't
give you better protection, it gives you longer protection if the rate of
metal to metal contact is abnormally high. High zinc content can lead to
deposit formation and plug fouling.
The Data:
Listed alphabetically --- indicates the data was not available
Brand VI Flash Pour %ash %zinc
20W-50
AMSOIL 136 482 -38 <.5 ---
Castrol GTX 122 440 -15 .85 .12
Exxon High Performance 119 419 -13 .70 .11
Havoline Formula 3 125 465 -30 1.0 ---
Kendall GT-1 129 390 -25 1.0 .16
Pennzoil GT Perf. 120 460 -10 .9 ---
Quaker State Dlx. 155 430 -25 .9 ---
Red Line 150 503 -49 --- ---
Shell Truck Guard 130 450 -15 1.0 .15
Spectro Golden 4 174 440 -35 --- .15
Spectro Golden M.G. 174 440 -35 --- .13
Unocal 121 432 -11 .74 .12
Valvoline All Climate 125 430 -10 1.0 .11
Valvoline Turbo 140 440 -10 .99 .13
Valvoline Race 140 425 -10 1.2 .20
Valvoline Synthetic 146 465 -40 <1.5 .12
20W-40
Castrol Multi-Grade 110 440 -15 .85 .12
Quaker State 121 415 -15 .9 ---
15W-50
Chevron 204 415 -18 .96 .11
Mobil 1 170 470 -55 --- ---
Mystic JT8 144 420 -20 1.7 .15
Red Line 152 503 -49 --- ---
5W-50
Castrol Syntec 180 437 -45 1.2 .10
Quaker State Synquest 173 457 -76 --- ---
Pennzoil Performax 176 --- -69 --- ---
5W-40
Havoline 170 450 -40 1.4 ---
15W-40
AMSOIL 135 460 -38 <.5 ---
Castrol 134 415 -15 1.3 .14
Chevron Delo 400 136 421 -27 1.0 ---
Exxon XD3 --- 417 -11 .9 .14
Exxon XD3 Extra 135 399 -11 .95 .13
Kendall GT-1 135 410 -25 1.0 .16
Mystic JT8 142 440 -20 1.7 .15
Red Line 149 495 -40 --- ---
Shell Rotella w/XLA 146 410 -25 1.0 .13
Valvoline All Fleet 140 --- -10 1.0 .15
Valvoline Turbo 140 420 -10 .99 .13
10W-30
AMSOIL 142 480 -70 <.5 ---
Castrol GTX 140 415 -33 .85 .12
Chevron Supreme 150 401 -26 .96 .11
Exxon Superflo Hi Perf 135 392 -22 .70 .11
Exxon Superflo Supreme 133 400 -31 .85 .13
Havoline Formula 3 139 430 -30 1.0 ---
Kendall GT-1 139 390 -25 1.0 .16
Mobil 1 160 450 -65 --- ---
Pennzoil PLZ Turbo 140 410 -27 1.0 ---
Quaker State 156 410 -30 .9 ---
Red Line 139 475 -40 --- ---
Shell Fire and Ice 155 410 -35 .9 .12
Shell Super 2000 155 410 -35 1.0 .13
Shell Truck Guard 155 405 -35 1.0 .15
Spectro Golden M.G. 175 405 -40 --- ---
Unocal Super 153 428 -33 .92 .12
Valvoline All Climate 130 410 -26 1.0 .11
Valvoline Turbo 135 410 -26 .99 .13
Valvoline Race 130 410 -26 1.2 .20
Valvoline Synthetic 140 450 -40 <1.5 .12
5W-30
AMSOIL 168 480 -76 <.5 ---
Castrol GTX 156 400 -35 .80 .12
Chevron Supreme 202? 354 -46 .96 .11
Chevron Supreme Synth. 165 446 -72 1.1 .12
Exxon Superflow HP 148 392 -22 .70 .11
Havoline Formula 3 158 420 -40 1.0 ---
Mobil 1 165 445 -65 --- ---
Mystic JT8 161 390 -25 .95 .1
Quaker State 165 405 -35 .9 ---
Red Line 151 455 -49 --- ---
Shell Fire and Ice 167 405 -35 .9 .12
Unocal 151 414 -33 .81 .12
Valvoline All Climate 135 405 -40 1.0 .11
Valvoline Turbo 158 405 -40 .99 .13
Valvoline Synthetic 160 435 -40 <1.5 .12
All of the oils above meet current SG/CD ratings and all vehicle
manufacturer's warranty requirements in the proper viscosity. All are "good
enough", but those with the better numbers are icing on the cake. The
synthetics offer the only truly significant differences, due to their
superior high temperature oxidation resistance, high film strength, very
low tendency to form deposits, stable viscosity base, and low temperature
flow characteristics. Synthetics are superior lubricants compared to
traditional petroleum oils. You will have to decide if their high cost is
justified in your application.
The extended oil drain intervals given by the vehicle manufacturers
(typically 7500 miles) and synthetic oil companies (up to 25,000 miles) are
for what is called normal service. Normal service is defined as the engine
at normal operating temperature, at highway speeds, and in a dust free
environment. Stop and go, city driving, trips of less than 10 miles, or
extreme heat or cold puts the oil change interval into the severe service
category, which is 3000 miles for most vehicles. Synthetics can be run two
to three times the mileage of petroleum oils with no problems. They do not
react to combustion and combustion by-products to the extent that the dead
dinosaur juice does. The longer drain intervals possible help take the bite
out of the higher cost of the synthetics. If your car or bike is still
under warranty you will have to stick to the recommended drain intervals.
These are set for petroleum oils and the manufacturers make no official
allowance for the use of synthetics.
Oil additives should not be used. The oil companies have gone to great
lengths to develop an additive package that meets the vehicle's
requirements. Some of these additives are synergistic, that is the effect
of two additives together is greater than the effect of each acting
separately. If you add anything to the oil you may upset this balance and
prevent the oil from performing to specification.
The numbers above are not, by any means, all there is to determining what
makes a top quality oil. The exact base stock used, the type, quality, and
quantity of additives used are very important. The given data combined with
the manufacturer's claims, your personal experience, and the reputation of
the oil among others who use it should help you make an informed choice.
Return to the Table of Contents
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18. "Should I worry about that white scum that seems to appear inside the
oil sight glass?"
It's a little condensation, an emulsion of oil and water, the byproduct of
combustion. For every gallon of gas you burn, you'll receive free of charge
roughly one and a half times that back in water, and unfortunately a little
can make it into the oil supply one way or another. It sort of goes away
when you change your oil, and then comes back again. The problem is that it
is very noticeable in the Duck's sight glass. You don't notice it the same
way on a dipstick.
This is why it's so important to ride for extended lengths, particularly
Ducatis as they seem to take a while to heat up their oil. About ten miles
or so at highway speeds is mentioned as a figure. Some folks swap their oil
after this just to be on the safe side, but it may not be needed unless
it's really excessive. 'Course you can always ride further and/or
faster....
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19. "Should I be worried about my crankcase breather seeping, specifically
a light mist on the back side of the engine case, between the right
swingarm pivot and the clutch cover?"
Thanks to Julian Bond for some of this
Unless it's a lot of oil, no. If it IS a lot of oil, the concern isn't that
the breather is having a problem, rather that there's excessive blow-by,
say, from a damaged ring or similar oil-retaining device. Most Ducs tend to
mist from the breather a bit because it's a small crankcase volume for the
displacement -- translate: high crankcase pumping action. California bikes
get a more proactive crankcase ventilation system so they tend to stay a
little drier.
Also, the seal between the breather assembly and the crankcase is not very
good as the breather is plastic and deforms easily. One thing to try is to
Unscrew it and carefully clean everything and then use instant gasket on
the breather and washer.
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20. "Do most of you guys have the European kickstand that automatically
flicks up when the bike is straightened up?"
In Cagiva's divine wisdom and fear of bonehead lawsuits, they've devised a
universally-despised retraction system for the sidestand that is sure to
NOT be there when you really need it, like when you want to avoid expensive
damage to the pretty parts of your new Ducati. Otherwise it's reliable as
hell [sic]. Fortunately, almost all dealers will, if asked, cut off the
head of the Allen screw that holds the spring or better yet, replace it
with a bolt supplied by PI Motorsports of Glendale, CA. You can always
drill it yourself, but do it ASAP or someone will sit on your bike and then
lean it back on the imaginary sidestand for you!
Mike Pugh, pug@habu.gvg.tek.com
has his own answer -- your mileage may vary:
"I have what I think is a unique solution, which is reversible and not too
difficult to implement.
The basic issue is that the allen head screw in question prevents the
spring from going "over center". The spring has a metal plate which extends
from the top mount to below the allen head and is what actually contacts
the allen head "post". I replaced the plate with another one made of
aluminum which is shaped like a sideways "U" with the same length between
centers for the holes the spring mounts in and the frame connection, but an
effective slot for where the allen head pin mounted. It took a machinist
about 10 min. to make it to my drawing, It could be made with a hole saw
and a drill but might take more like 40 min."
A very crude drawing to give you the Idea:
| O | Mounts on pin on frame (or whatever)
\ \____
\___ \
\ \
__ / /
/ _ _ /
/ /
|_O_| Connect Spring here.
Return to the Table of Contents
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21. "Where can I get OEM and aftermarket Ducati parts and accessories?"
Three good sources are Gio.Ca.Moto in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
(954-524-5272, www.giocamoto.com, email giocamot@bellsouth.net), Fast By
Ferracci, near Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (215-657-1276, www.ferracci.com),
and PI Motorsports (formerly Pro Italia) in Southern California, (3518
North Verdugo Road, Glendale CA 91208, 818.249.5707,
www.pimotorsports.com). All of them have on-line catalogs, and you can get
hardcopy, too, if you call.
Return to the Table of Contents
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22. "Which tailpieces are most commonly used by other Monster [M900] riders
and how were they set up?"
European Cycle Specialties in Garden Grove, CA, and PI Motorsports
(formerly Pro Italia) of Glendale, CA, offer their versions of what the
well-dressed Monster should have. Wilson's, of Fresno, CA, sells a unit
made of carbon fiber that doesn't require you to cut the frame rails.
Andy Birko (ayb@umdsun2.umd.umich.edu) offers his own solutions:
"On mine, I cut the tailpiece short just below where a U.S. size tailplate
is. I then abbreviated the plate holder and relocated the reflectors so
that they would not extend below the plate. This setup looks much better
than stock and also makes it much easier to put the beast on a swingarm
stand.
"I've also seen another mod where the guy made three simple brackets out of
aluminum. Two were just 90 degree brackets facing rearward to hold the
plate. The other was like this:
________________
| |
| |
This bracket is used to hold the turn signals on. All three brackets bolted
to the rear two bolts (of four total) used to keep the stock fender on.
With a mod like this, it would be very easy to change back."
Return to the Table of Contents
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23. "Do I really need a steering damper on my Monster [M900]?"
It's been observed that most riders who complain about Ducati steering are
in fact putting too much weight on the handlebars. Bending your arms a
little and settling back into your seat are far cheaper than any steering
damper, and will improve your riding skills.
With this said, the Monster seems to suffer from over-sensitivity due to
its combination of overly strong springing and heavy compressions damping,
in concert with the stiff chassis derived from the 851, wide tubular
handlebars and upright riding position. This also makes for some impressive
wheelies. It uses the same fork as the 750ss, which means it isn't
adjustable, and has slightly longer trail figures as such with the same
rake as the 851/888. This is not a prescription for head shakes, but if
you're worried about it, a switch to lighter fork oil might alleviate some
of the compression damping that makes you think this. Try 7 wt. -- the
factory is 10.
Return to the Table of Contents
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24. "What kind of performance increase can be expected from going to the
Ferracci/Staintune/Termignoni/CarbonTech/etc. exhaust canisters?"
Very little. The best application of the freer-flowing exhaust is in
conjunction with a jet kit and airbox modifications. By itself the cans are
estimated to be worth only 1 to 3 horsepower improvement over stock, with
little variation between designs. You could possibly improve that figure
using the "spaghetti" header designs offered by some manufacturers, but
that's another story.
However, the canisters lighten the bike by a bit and sound REALLY GOOD. For
instance, the Staintune aluminum jobbies weigh in at about 8 lbs. each,
which is a 22 lb. weight savings compared to the stock cans. You can expect
a bigger savings with carbon fiber. And we all know that carbon fiber is to
the Ducati owner what chrome is to the Harley-Davidson owner....
There are differences in sound between the various makes, so you may want
to listen to a set before you buy. The Staintunes, being made of aluminum,
tend to resonate with a "tinny" sound and can be described as mellow (but
this is not necessarily quiet). The CarbonTechs (and Pro Italia's house
brand, which are "unbranded" CarbonTechs), tend to be rounder-sounding and
have a "bark" to them. Some say they sound louder, although the author has
compared the two on identical bikes side by side and is not convinced. One
750ss owner recommends you purchase aftermarket mounting brackets for the
CarbonTechs application as they must be shoe horned into the standard
mount. Left for long, the carbon fiber components can separate. They can be
procured from PI Motorsports.
Return to the Table of Contents
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
25. "The shop is recommending Dynojetting and changing the pipes. How much
performance will this buy me? Are there other things I can do?"
The Ducati standard jetting in the US is somewhat lean to accommodate
emissions requirements, and the airbox is restrictive for noise control.
The Dynojet kit, in conjunction with a K & N air filter, seems to be THE
standard modification for carburetted Ducatis that improves the tune of the
motor all the way around. Less restrictive exhaust cannisters at this point
would be a tasty and useful touch as well. After all, you bought the Duke
for that nice Ducati music, right?
Contact Dynojet (406-388-4993, FAX 406-388-4721) before ordering a kit to
make sure the kit you order or have installed is appropriate for the
altitudes you ride in. It does make a difference. You get several sizes of
jets to experiment with, and weaker diaphragm springs so the slides rise
faster, quickening throttle response. Be prepared to play with the setting
for a time, following their guidelines.
It used to be that you had to do some serious cutting into your airbox if
you decide to add the K & N kit, but nowadays, K & N makes a filter
specifically for our airboxes.
While you're at it, many owners spring for reduced gearing with aftermarket
sprockets. The general consensus seems to be 39 teeth for the 900ss and
derivatives (including the 750ss), and 42 teeth for 907ie's. This is also
to restore the European performance levels, as only the Americans get
unusually elevated gearing for EPA reasons.
Julian Bond has another suggestion:
If you're happy with the standard levels of noise, at least make sure
you're 900ss has the standard European jets. Replacement exhausts, Dynojet
or Factory kit, K&N and open airbox certainly work but can take some
fiddling and dyno time to get them to work properly. The airbox gets
seriously loud at some RPMs which you may not like. The Euro jetting is:-
Carb Mikuni 38-B67
Choke 38
Needle Valve Jet Y-2
Main Jet 140
Starting Jet 70
Idling Jet 42.5
Needle Jet 5C19, 4 pos from top
Air screws 4 turns out
Return to the Table of Contents
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26. "My fuel-injected Ducati seems to pop a lot when I'm accelerating; no
smoke, just noise. Is it too lean? What is the equivalent of rejetting the
carburetors for highly-evolved steed?"
Thanks to Brad Turner (mbt@mkt.3com.com), Godfrey DiGiorgi
(ramarren@apple.com), and Michael Nelson, (nelson@seahunt.imat.com) or
research.
Why yes, it is. If you have a fuel-injected Duc, fear not because you can
achieve similar results to rejetting with a better chip. Again, Cagiva
leans the mixture out to pass emissions in the States, but the European
chip corrects this situation. Even better, posters report the best
improvements by using the enhanced chip by Fuel Injected Motorcycles
(available from PI Motorsports, (formerly Pro Italia) of Glendale, CA),
which removes some mapping anomalies (you know, bugs) from the factory
chips. Combined with the aforementioned K & N air filter mods a 907ie owner
reports roughly 12 hp. more in the midrange and possibly 6 to 8 hp. at the
top end, as an example. Regardless, it's worth it just for the full 9000
rpm redline instead of the factory 8700 limit. Fast By Ferracci also makes
a chip that some posters have used, but many have since switched to the FIM
version.
Apparently FBF uses the "some is good, more is better" approach to
engineering (if you call it that) their EPROMS. On the Duc EFI systems the
CPU basically does a series of table lookups. On the 907's 6801 based
processor these table lookups produce an injector values from 0-255 to
indicate how long to open the injector -- for a richer mixture, they just
spray for a longer time, for leaner, a shorter time. According to Duane at
Fuel Injected Motorcycles, all that FBF did was to do an across-the-board
bump of all of the values in the table. He claims that if you look at the
table lookup outputs a lot of the time under acceleration you'll see 0xff
[maximum value] outputs when that is really not appropriate based on an
exhaust gas analyzer. The upshot of this is that the bike tends to run
richer and mileage suffers. According to him he does his EPROM tables with
a brake dyno and EG analyzer setup. When running with the FBF chip, too
rich is what seemed to be happening. It wasn't uselessly too rich but it
was noticeable. Side effects of the too-rich settings, however, are carbon
build up in the exhaust and crappy mileage.
Note: some fuel-injection units use dual-capacity EPROMS to independently
map the two cylinders, combined with a faster CPU for more precise
metering. These can be found in the 888 series Ducatis. Make sure you
specify which model (SP1, SP2, SP3, etc.) when you order.
Fuel Injected Motorcycles Fast by Ferracci
P.O. Box 851 1641 Easton Rd.
Apollo Bay, Victoria 3233 Willow Grove, PA 19090
AUSTRALIA 215.657.1276 phone
61 52 379 222 phone/fax www.ferraci.com
(sold by Pro Italia in
the States, 818.249.5707,
www.pimotorsports.com)
Return to the Table of Contents
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27. "I hear there are better plugs than the factory recommends, some type
of extended nose plugs. True?"
907 owners using the older DR8ES spec jobbies are now using DPR8EA-9, with
reports of elimination of surging that seemed to appear around 4100 rpm and
more low rpm smoothness to boot.
851/888 owners used to the Champion A59GC are now using NGK D9EV spec plugs
with improvements.
M900 (Monster) and 900ss' are switching to NGK DPR8EA-9 or NGK DPR8EV-9
from the Champions.
Note: The Champion plug uses a 16mm drive and the NGKs use an 18mm socket,
so pick up a new on board plug wrench if you make the switch.
For those of you who were wondering, and those of you who weren't. Here is
the NGK Spark plug code straight from the book:
Example DPR8EA-9
prefix
D P R
Thread diameter construction Resistor
A : 18mm M compact type
B : 14mm P projected Insulator
C : 10mm U Surface Discharge
D : 12mm Z inductive Suppressor
E : 8mm
8 E A
Heat Range Reach Firing End Construction
2 Hot E: 19mm A: Special Design
H: 12.7mm B: Single Ground, Special alloy
L: 11.2mm C: Dual Ground, Spec. Alloy
F: Taper Seat G: Racing Type
Z: 21mm GV: Racing V-Type
Blank: L: Half Heat Range
18mm phi 12mm S: Standard Center Electrode
10 Cold 14mm phi 9.5mm V: Fine Wire Center Electrode
X: Booster Gap
Y: V-Grooved Center Electrode
The -9 at the end is a gap code, I believe it is a max gap of .9mm; eg., -
15 would be a max gap of 1.5mm
Return to the Table of Contents
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
28. "Is there anything I should know regarding touch-up paint application?"
Believe it or not, Ducati uses slightly different shades of that beautiful
red (SFI Red, according to the wizened souls of the Church of Ducati), so
make sure you get the primer and paint specific to your bike. It seems to
vary by year. Note that the undercoat is pink primer, not white, which
explains why it's so damn hard for the dealers to match original paints.
Shop wisely.
You might try Color-Rite Distributing (http://www.color-rite.com/). They
have pens and spray cans to match many of the factory colors.
colorritebh@earthlink.net
West Coast Sales Office:
11603 Groveland Ave.
Whittier, CA 90604
For Info-310-947-9796
Fax-310-902-8068
To ORDER CALL 800-736-7980 OR EMAIL US
East Coast Sales Office:
123 Blaine St.
E. Bangor, PA
For Info-610-588-7350
Fax-610-588-1570
To ORDER CALL 800-358-1882 OR EMAIL US
When you finally find the perfect match, sand the afflicted area very
gently, just enough to get most of the big scrapes out. A little filler
might be useful here. Let it cure all the way, then sand gently again. Wash
thoroughly after each sanding. Lastly, apply the paint in t-h-i-n coats and
let each set well between each layer. Finish with a clear coat. It will
take longer if it's cold in the garage.
Don't be discouraged if it doesn't come out exactly right -- the secret
seems to be the pink primer. Not all pieces use the pink stuff, though, so
check first.
Return to the Table of Contents
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29. "To remove the unneeded stickers on the tank and other places, is the
best way to warm them with a hair dryer and peel gently?"
Yes, then a tiny bit of ether (aka: starting fluid) on a cloth will take
off the remaining glue.
Return to the Table of Contents
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30. "How do I remove my in-line filter that lives INSIDE my gas tank?"
How to remove your in-line filter -- 750ss & 900ss & sl, 851 variants, 750
& 906 Pasos & 907ie, and assorted unnamed rubberbandheads.
by Michael Nelson, (nelson@seahunt.imat.com)
Predicament:
"With my recent flaky engine response and poor idling, I would like to look
at the contents of my in-line gas filter. My manual shows one INSIDE the
gas tank. Anybody play with these before? Any way to take it out for a
look/replace?"
Yes. If it's like the 851's, you have five or six 4mm allen screws that
hold the cap assembly in place. Remove them (only three of them actually
hold it in place... the ones at 12 o'clock, 4 o'clock, and 7 o'clock when
viewed from the seat... the others are dummies and don't need to be
removed). Lift that sucker off. BTW, I'd disconnect the battery (to avoid
sparks) before starting on this job, and do it in a well ventilated area
with no nearby flame sources (water heater pilot lights, etc.). Around the
perimeter of the aluminum casting that remains in the tank, there are a
series of 2mm or so Allens. Back each of them out so you can see about 1/8"
of threads. You don't need to remove them completely, but if you do, stuff
a rag in the hole first so you don't drop the little buggers in the tank.
When you get them all loosened, the aluminum fitting will be held in by
tension from the black rubber o-ring and the green rubber o-ring lower on
the fitting. Pull up firmly on it 'til it comes out, and then underneath
there will be a drain hose. Loosen the clamp and pull it off. Remove the
aluminum casting and set it aside.
Now you just reach down into the tank and the gasoline and feel around.
There will be numerous rubber fuel lines in there. Feel down toward the
bottom of the tank near the seat. That's where the fuel pump lives. The
fuel pump can be identified by feel because there are two wires going to it
as well as a couple of fuel lines. The fuel pump is mounted in a rubber
collar and is just a slip/tension fit in the collar and a bracket in the
tank... you can just pull it out. Once you pull the pump out, you'll be
able to pull the whole shebang including the lines and filters out above
the big hole in the tank where it is easy to loosen the clamps on the fuel
hoses.
Nifty cost-saving tip: the BMW K-bike filter is the same as the Duck one at
a considerably lower price. Went over to the BMW dealer in SF and picked
one up... $12.00. And yes, it's the same as the one Ducati sells for more
than twice as much. It's BMW part number
"13 32 1 461 265"
Remove the old filter, plug in the new one, reconnect the hoses and
re-tighten the hose clamps. Push the fuel pump back into its mounting, and
reassemble everything in the reverse order. It all sounds complicated but
it's a lot harder to describe the procedure than it is to actually do it.
Return to the Table of Contents
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31. "What is the 5mm Allen key trick that everyone talks about?"
(Thanks to David M. Lewis for point out that the key goes between the belt
and the *idler* pully, not the adjusting pulley.)
-- the quick-and-dirty (and surprisingly accurate) method for adjusting
belt tension on two-valvers and four-valvers with belt-driven cams.
Surprisingly, this technique is taught at the Ducati Service Mechanics
school, even though Cagiva supplies a very-expensive tool resembling a fish
scale to complicate this simple task.
Since there's very little actual tension applied to the belts via the valve
gear (remember, this is a desmo, although there are retainer springs), the
trick is to be able to pass a 5mm Allen key between the idler pulley and
the belt. If you can't fit it in there, it's too tight; if the belt is
loose enough to fit anything bigger, it's loose. That's it.
While you're there, you might check the pulley bearings, as they have been
known to go away from time to time. If they rotate roughly, or not at all,
they go.
The adjusting process itself isn't particularly critical, but what is
critical is that you don't want the belt to be so loose as to hop a tooth
or flap around, nor so tight that the cylinder and head expansion stresses
the belts fibers and causes it to break. Trust the Church's cumulative
experience -- bad things, bad things happen (to paraphrase Dennis Hopper).
There is an equivalent trick for four-valvers. Find the SHORT run of the
belt between the two pulleys:
this one, not the long one
|
v
______
(O O)
\ /
| |
With the belt TIGHT, scribe a line on the head even with the edge of the
tight belt. The tension is correct when you can depress the middle of that
run 3mm (not 5mm, due to the shorter run) with "moderate" thumb pressure.
So adjust it, and then check it by putting a 3mm allen in the middle on top
of the belt, and depress the center of the run until the TOP surface of the
allen is now even with the scribed line on the head, indicating 3 mm of
--
Duke Robillard, duke@io.com
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