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misc.kids FAQ on Childhood Vaccinations, Part 4/4

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Archive-name: misc-kids/vaccinations/part4
Posting-Frequency: monthly
Last-Modified: September 25, 1999

See reader questions & answers on this topic! - Help others by sharing your knowledge
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Section 5. Stories of Parents

The questions asked were as follows:

Now, the questions for parents (or parents to be) about vaccination.  The
following questions refer both to the regular vaccinations which are
recommended for all children, and to any optional vaccinations which your
child may have gotten (such as hepatitis B or flu shots).  (This list of
questions has been slightly modified from the first posting, to correct
a typing mistake which made some questions appear to be addressed only
to vaccinators.)

These first questions are meant for people anywhere on the spectrum
as far as what vaccinations they chose to give or not give their
children.  What vaccines did you (will you) choose to give or not give
your children?  What were your reasons for making the choices you did?
How did you go about making your decisions, and what resources did you
find helpful in getting the information you needed?

For parents who have vaccinated your children, do you have any advice for
parents who are about to have their children vaccinated about things they
should be prepared for?

For parents who have not given the recommended infant vaccinations, are
you planning to have your children vaccinated later?  Why or why not?
In particular, would you vaccinate your daughter for rubella when she hits
puberty?  Why or why not?

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From: Paula Burch <pburch@ROC.MBCR.BCM.TMC.EDU>

We choose to give our son all of his vaccinations as recommended by the
pediatrician. Vaccinations are one of the few true successes of modern
medicine, and despite some extremely small risks prevent far, far more
agony than they ever cause.=20

Some who would otherwise choose to have their children vaccinated cannot,
for odd medical reasons. These individuals depend absolutely on the rest
of the population's being vaccinated. Parents who elect to refuse
vaccination for their children, for no better reason than that they've
been listening to some quack, put not only themselves but these other
children in danger. When a child who cannot be vaccinated dies due to
infection from a child who could have been vaccinated but wasn't, the
parents of the latter child are morally though not legally guilty of the
dead child's murder. When only a small number of children are
unvaccinated, the risk is small, but when many elect to refuse
vaccinations, the risk of an epidemic becomes quite high, and in some
cases this has already been seen on a small scale.=20

Almost all problems blamed upon the pertussis vaccine actually have had
nothing to due with the vaccine, but were observed coincidentally in
children who would have had the problems even in the absence of the
vaccination.=20

In no case has our child shown any reaction at all to any of the
vaccinations he has received, through 18 months, except for pain
immediately after the injection. Even if he had shown some problem,
however, I would still be convinced of the necessity of the immunization.
A one in a million risk of a side effect is a whole lot better than a one
in twenty, or worse, chance of dying. It is my duty as a mother to do what
I can to improve my child's chances of good health, and it is extremely
clear that immunizations improve the odds tremendously.=20

At the turn of the century, no more than one or two out of five children
could be expected to survive to maturity. Vaccinations are one of the
primary reasons why our own children can expect to grow up.=20

Having said that, I saw no reason to give the hepatitis B vaccine to my
newborn. My peditrician gives it when the child is several months older,
which seemed preferable to me, as there was so little risk of exposure
before that time. The need for vaccination against hepatitis is much lower
than the need for immunization against the diseases of childhood, but, as
the hepatitis vaccine is genetically engineered, there is essentially zero
risk of ill effects, so I felt it was well worth getting.=20

Paula Burch
pburch@bcm.tmc.edu

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From: jag@ampex.com (Rayaz Jagani)

(It would be easier to answer/comment if the questions were
enumerated, I hope the following does not further confuse the issue)

I tend not to allow my child to be vaccinated.

My HMO (Kaiser Permanente), has not given me actual numbers of
efficacy/side effects over the life of an average person. I understand
that the definition of side effects is what happens within 6 weeks.
If the effects are known to be longer, why should side effects be of
shorter duration?

My wife, who is an M.D. thinks differently. Our son got all the
recommended shots. I had my fingers crossed.
He also got the works for our recent trip to India/Pakistan.
I don't think it worked as he did land up with stools etc.,
was prescribed some anti-biotic (Bactrin or something).

I dont take any shots when I visit that region; but then, I grew
up there, not that I was vaccinated regularly there :-)

About the hepatitis B shots, not enough is known. Also, should
babies be given this or more likely adolescents... if they are
becoming sexually active. Apparently, they do get some residual
effects from their infancy vaccines.

My conclusion is, that if you are looking for answers, a long
term view, and hard numbers, there is a lot of gray area.
All the numbers are based on samples, statistics, control groups,
duration of followup, etc. You decide what you want to bet on, in
this russian roulette.

There may also be a legal requirement in public schools, private
schools can probably do anything they wish. I think
you can get around public school limitations, however, you may
have to go to court.

You may wish to hunt the sci.med archives for more discussion;
I dont know how enlightening you will find it :-).
Below is an example:


EX:From: mcdonald@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (J. D. McDonald)
EX:Newsgroups: sci.med
EX:Subject: Re: infant seizures after vaccination
EX:Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 13:52:43 GMT
[deleted rest of header]
EX:In article <93245.161304ICGLN@ASUACAD.BITNET> <ICGLN@ASUACAD.BITNET> wri=
tes:
EX:>Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1993 16:13:04 MST
EX:>From: <ICGLN@ASUACAD.BITNET>
EX:>Subject: Re: infant seizures after vaccination
EX:
EX:>nnget 93245.161304
EX:>In article <CCqJyM.8Gw@toads.pgh.pa.us>, geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)=
 says:
EX:>>
EX:>>
EX:>>Seizures and epilepsy are not uncommon in children.  They often begin
EX:>>about the age that the child is vaccinated.  No correlation has
EX:>>been shown between the vaccine and the development of epilepsy.
EX:>>It is likely just coicidence.  The child needs a good pediatric
EX:>>neurologist.  Denver is likely the only place in the State of
EX:>>COlorado that has one.
EX:>>
EX:>>--
EX:>Given that a large portion of children are vaccinated; and that seizure=
s and
EX:>epilepsy occur around the same time as vaccination; how could one possi=
ble say
EX:>that no correlation has been shown. Where are the controls in this stud=
y?
EX:
EX:>Certainly not every vaccinated child has seizures. And not every child =
will be
EX:>allergic to milk, either. The fact that not every child has a reaction =
to
EX:>vaccinations is no argument against the notion that they may cause reac=
tions
EX:>in
EX:>some. Unlike the milk allergy, where one can eliminate milk from the di=
et and
EX:>see if the condition gets better, it is not possible to unvaccinate som=
eone.
EX:>While the connection is not absolute, there are **NO** grounds for dism=
issing
EX:>vaccinations as a possible source of health complications.
EX:
EX:
EX:There is NO reasonable doubt that vaccination with the pertussis vacine
EX:can cause permanent and serious neurological harm. That has been
EX:proven again and again in court cases in the US. In fact, just this
EX:last week another child was awarded millions of dollars in damages
EX:after being brain-damaged by this vaccine. Note that one need=20
EX:not make any qualifications about that .. not "may have been", but
EX:"was". This is simply no longer debateable. It is only this one vaccine =
thaty
EX:does this. It is often given in combination with two other vaccines.
EX:If those are given alone, the vaccine is safe.
EX:
EX:The vaccine is still required in some places EVEN THOUGH it is known
EX:that it can cause SERIOUS harm to children.=20
EX:
EX:Doug McDonald=20

Best of luck.
--=20
Usual disclaimers/caveats apply.
It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he
already knows.  -Epictetus

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From: madrone@cruzio.com

In article <gazissaxCHyIIJ.Fuo@netcom.com> you write:
>These first questions are meant for people anywhere on the spectrum
>as far as what vaccinations they chose to give or not give their
>children.  What vaccines did you (will you) choose to give or not give=20
>your children? =20

Morganne received 1 dose of DPT, 2 doses of DT, 3 doses of oral polio
and 1 dose of MMR.  Matisse has received 1 dose of tetanus vaccine
and we plan to vaccinate her for polio.  Both girls will receive
rubella vaccinations at puberty (if they show no immunity at that
time).

>What were your reasons for making the choices you did? =20

I was undecided with Morganne but decided to vaccinate her anyway.
After she had severe reactions to the pertussis and MMR vaccines,
I did more reading and consulted with the doctor.  We came up with
the following:

1)  Additional doses of pertussis or MMR could be dangerous or deadly
    for Morganne and were not advised for siblings, either.
2)  The side effects of the diptheria, pertussis, measles, mumps
    and rubella vaccines are a greater health risk to healthy
    children than the diseases themselves.
3)  There are concerns about vaccines wearing off.  I would rather
    my children contract mild illnesses (mumps, rubella, chicken pox,
    measles) as children.  I am haunted by the prospect of a population
    of young women whose immunity to rubella may wear off just as
    they begin to bear children.
4)  The risks of tetanus and polio (and the safety of the vaccines)
    are greater than the risks of the vaccines.  So my children will
    receive these vaccines.
5)  The risk of rubella in a pregnant woman is very troublesome.
    Therefore, I will delay this vaccine until puberty.  This will
    give them a chance to receive more effective immunity from the
    natural disease and will also put them at lower risk for
    reduced vaccine immunity in their childbearing years.

>How did you go about making your decisions, and what resources did you=20
>find helpful in getting the information you needed?

Our family doctor was very helpful.  I also found the writings of
Robert Mendelsohn and George Wootan (both MDs) very helpful.  Mothering
magazine was another good source of information.  George Wootan's book
has an especially good section on the risks and benefits of the various
vaccines.

>For parents who have vaccinated your children, do you have any advice for
>parents who are about to have their children vaccinated about things they
>should be prepared for?

Know what severe reactions to watch out for and take any unusual reactions
seriously.  I didn't know until later that Morganne's reaction could
have resulted in brain damage or death.  Report the reactions to your
doctor.

Prepare for mild illness for 1 week to 10 days after the vaccination.
It can and does happen.

>For parents who have not given the recommended infant vaccinations, are
>you planning to have your children vaccinated later?  Why or why not?

I covered this above, but will summarize.

1)  The effectiveness of some vaccines (particularly pertussis) is
    questionable.
2)  The incidence of diptheria is quite low and diptheria is now
    treatable.
3)  Measles, mumps, rubella and chickenpox are mild childhood diseases
    with few side effects for healthy children.  (These diseases are
    dangerous for malnourished children, however).
4)  Each vaccine carries certain risks.
5)  The immunity conferred by a vaccine is generally shorter-lived and
    less complete than the immunity conferred by the natural disease.

Note that we are choosing to vaccinate for polio and tetanus.

>In particular, would you vaccinate your daughter for rubella when she hits=
=20
>puberty?  Why or why not?

Yes.  Childhood rubella vaccinations seem short-sighted to me in light
of the tendency for the rubella vaccine to wear off.  But young women
need immunity to rubella to protect their unconceived children.

>(Please mail responses to this account.  Your name will be included inthe
>FAQ unless you specify otherwise.)
>
>If anyone is interested in reviewing the FAQ when I have written a draft,=
=20
>send me email (I have one person reviewing it already).  I have found=20
>some information about vaccinations in other countries, so I no longer=20
>need that question answered, but if anyone on sci.med (or on misc.kids,=20
>for that matter) can suggest good resources to check to keep this FAQ=20
>current after I have written it, I'd welcome them (one thing I've noticed=
=20
>in my research is that there are lots of changes happening).
>
>Lynn Gazis-Sax
>
>
>
>


--=20
Heather Madrone
madrone@cruzio.com (WAS madrone@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us)

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From: kellihmt@ausable.crd.ge.com (Margaret T Kelliher)

Lynn,
Here's my 2 cents. Hope it's what you're looking for.
Margaret

We've given all recommended vaccinations so far (15 mos
and 4 years) We did delay certain of Colleen's shots=20
because she had a very rough neonatal period and we=20
couldn't see stressing her system more than necessary.

Why did we do this? All these things are a bet. Given
the relative rates of disease, and the seemingly bad
effects of these diseases, and the relatively low risks
of the shots, it seemed a good bet to take the shots.
(And it makes it easier to get into school and day care.)

I did a little reading (Parents, and a few articles my
doctor gave me at my request), but in large part, I=20
trusted my doctor, who has always answered my questions
to my satisfaction. With the hepatitis B, I also talked
to several other doctors: ob/gyn & pediatric neurologist
in particular, and read some articles on the subject.

Advice:=20

Give them tylenol immediately after the DPT shot.

For all shots, leave extra cuddle time in the schedule.
If nursing, try to make an opportunity to nurse the baby
immediately after the shot. Once they are verbal, prepare=20
them for it (but not too graphically).

Always ask questions about the shots effects and what to
look for. DPT especially; I believe that the first=20
adverse reaction is supposed to be somewhat mild; while
subsequent ones are more likely to be devastating. I would
not allow a second one if the first one raised a question.

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From: carolp@teleport.com (Carolyn Peterson)

Pertussis vaccine.

This vaccine is one that many parents worry about giving their children.
They do so for good reason.  There is a lot of information out saying that
the vaccine could cause problems with their child's health.  Who wouldn't
worry!

Unfortunately, the possibility of getting the illness and problems from the
illness does not seem to be publicized as much as the potential
complications from the vaccine are.  Pertussis, or whooping cough, is still
present today and can easily be transmitted.  The last booster for the
illness is given around 4-6 years, after that the illness isn't severe, so
boosters aren't given.  Adults can have the disease and just think they
have a bad cold.  It's a completely different story for infants.

Friends of ours came down with colds and a bad cough.  They continued their
normal routine.  Their 3 month old daughter also came down with the "cold".
The disease reached the pertussis stage while the mother and child were
thousands of miles from home.  The baby had horrible coughing spells,
projectile vomiting and apnea attacks after the coughing.  She was
hospitalized for 3 weeks, with 8 days of that in ICU due to whooping=20
cough (or pertussis).

Our 3 month old child and several other infants that age had all been
exposed to the disease at a play group.  The infants received their second
vaccination early and were put on erythromycin for 10 days as a precaution.
That stuff is wicked for young children.  After one day, our daughter
started screaming at the sight of the antibiotic bottle.  It took two of us
to get the medicine down her and we were fortunate that she only needed two
doses a day.   The only thing that gave us the strength to force her to
take the medicine was the knowledge that our friends' child was so ill many
miles away.

During this time, we learned that whooping cough is still quite active in
the United States.  Countries that don't vaccinate against it have children
dying from the disease each year (I don't have the numbers any more.)  The
immunization isn't complete until after the 3rd shot at six months.  Even
then, there is a small chance they could come down with the disease.  The
only other case of pertussis that our pediatrician had seen at the time was
from a child who had been vaccinated, but still came down with the disease.
--=20
Carolyn Peterson         =20
carolp@teleport.COM =20

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From: Diane Lin <dlin@weber.ucsd.edu>

Our son has been given the full range of immunizations--polio, DPT
(diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus), MMR (measles, mumps, rubella),
Hib (meningitis), and Hepatitis-B.  We made the decision to have our
son vaccinated for all of these because (a) we felt there was a moral duty
to have him vaccinated, both to escape the free-rider problem, and
to contribute to the herd immunity**, (b) the risk of serious side-effects
did not outweigh the benefits of immunization, and (c) the increased
numbers of children who are not immunized is steadily going up,
which increases the chances of an epidemic, and while most of the
diseases are fairly minor, we didn't see the point in exposing our son
unnecessarily.  In making our decision, we spoke to our
pediatrician, other parents, and read the views expressed in misc.kids :-).

When our son got his first DPT shot, he cried for about 4 hours
afterwards, and I was at a loss to comfort him.  After calling my
husband to come home, we were finally able to get a little bit of
Infant Tylenol into our son's system.  That helped tremendously so
that he could nurse and be comforted.  After that, we made sure we
gave him some Infant Tylenol just before he got his shots, to ease
the discomfort.  Also, after his first MMR shot, I had forgotten
that some kids display symptoms of measles anywhere from a few days
to a week after the immunization.  I didn't panic, but I wish I had
kept that in mind!

--=20
Diane C. Lin=09=09=09"The only rational way of educating
dlin@weber.ucsd.edu=09         is to be an example."
(Dylan's mom, 2-3/4 years)=09                --  Albert Einstein

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From: sunfire@earthlink.net (Joseph Karr O'Connor)
Subject: Immunization story

Dear Lynn Gazis-Sax,

I've been to your Web site and I have a story you might want to post there:

Helpless Child Under Fire

When the subject of vaccinations first came up for my daughter, Siobhan, I
set out to gather information from friends. We had been in a group which
met to study what the birthing process was all about, and I began by asking
people in this group what they were doing about immunizations for their
children. My wife, Linda, does legal research for a living and she started
bringing home reams of research about vaccinations. Soon we could see it
was proper to call vaccinations off as long as possible. Siobhan has severe
developmental delays. Her only diagnosis is Infantile Encephalopathy, but
that's just a label to put on an as yet unexplained situation. She is
unable to communicate verbally and can't walk and she'll be 3 years old in
July. She looks to be moving toward walking but is not close at all to
speaking. She developed exactly backwards after a diagnosis of "failure to
thrive" early in the first year.

We resisted all minor and major efforts to get us to vaccinate her.
Receptionists would exclaim in horror or bewilderment: "She hasn't had her
shots?" Doctors would sniff loudly and bark condescendingly. At best it was
as if we were daft and had to be humored. At worst we were threatened with
child neglect. One doctor finally told us that in New York state (Ithaca,
New York, is where we lived 'till we moved back to California in January of
this year) all doctors are required by law to support vaccinating children
and if one is found not actively pushing vaccinations that their license to
practice is revoked immediately. I don't know how much of that is what I
made out of what I heard or what the doctor made out of what he understood
to be the facts, or a combination, but from my experience it might as well
be true. Even when you can see it in their eyes that they know something
different they lie right to your face and say it's OK, just do it, you'll
be glad, do it for the child, etc.

It's like when I go anywhere or do anything with my daughter and someone
wants to manipulate me into doing something I don't want to do and they
point at her and tell me to do it for her. I was at Midas Muffler the other
day and the first thing the mechanic pointed to was a hole in the catalytic
converter cover and he told me "Well, to do it right you'll have to replace
the whole thing" meaning the entire exhaust system. Considering I went in
to get only a tailpipe that was quite a leap. I argued with him, first by
pointing out that a 1/4 inch hole in the catalytic converter cover is not a
hole in the catalytic converter, and second with the fact that I didn't
want him to do it right, I just wanted him to fix the broken parts. This
got his dander up and he brought in the manager. The first thing the
manager did was point at Siobhan and say: "Don't you want to make it safe
for her?"

Even our neurologist, the head of a major pediatric neurology department in
a major hospital told us calmly to go ahead, there was no reason to delay,
there would be no side effects, etc. Finally, after many months of MRI/CAT
scans, blood tests, etc., the same neurologist proposed some tests to prove
or disprove the absence of two rare diseases... both of which would
contraindicate vaccinations! This, after he told us to go ahead with them!
When we took her in for a battery of tests and Linda stayed overnight with
her in the hospital, a young, idealistic, brainwashed resident in the unit
gave me a little lecture about vaccinating right there in the hall as I
held my daughter in my arms with a catheter in place to collect a 24 hour
urine sample--a sample they failed to collect properly so most of the
reason for our hospital stay was negated! Now... if they couldn't do a
urine sample properly, how can I expect them to manufacture a vaccine which
is safe? I told this young doctor-to-be that we were waiting for the test
results before proceeding, as the diseases we were testing for would
contraindicate vaccinations. She didn't hear me at all. I could see in her
eyes that she was looking at me like I was a bug. A bug that needed
squishing.

Finally, when Siobhan was two and a half years old, due to an outbreak of
Pertussus in our area, we decided to give her DTaP. The first shot seemed
to have no effect on Siobhan, but she was surprised when she was jabbed
with the needle, like she was surprised that anyone could willfully hurt
her. What a poor dear she is. We decided that perhaps our fears of the
immunizations were unfounded, and based on this we decided to go ahead with
all the rest of the shots. The second DTaP shot six weeks later sent her
immune system haywire, the third shot, killed Polio, brought her down so
low that her herpes infection took over and the fourth one, HIB, changed
her personality drastically. If it weren't for homepathic medicine and a
timely dose of a remedy she'd be a very sad little girl with no center...
way off balance.

I waited a long time before agreeing to immunizations and now I know it's
the wrong thing to do. We have never given her antibiotics even though
they've been prescribed several times, once by a doctor who told us she'd
have to either take them or she'd be ready for the hospital immediately.
(She was, at that moment, on the road to recovery, we just didn't know it
at the time.) She's never had an ear infection as far as I'm concerned. She
may have had some fluid buildup once or twice which the doctors described
as ear infections, but since doctors use the phrase "ear infection" all the
time it's difficult to tell if that was true. I credit her lack of ear
infections with the fact that we never give her a cold bottle, never let
her drink lying down, give her echinacea extract when she's sick, never
give her antibiotics--and didn't vaccinate her. If we're right about this
then following our own path has given us great rewards in that direction.
It seems to me we should follow our own counsel about the vaccinations.

Since the bureaucracy we are currently dealing with is demanding that we
continue the vaccinations in spite of the fact that there has been damage
from them we have determined that we must take a personal beliefs exemption
on behalf of Siobhan. We found that there is no one who can help us with
this. Linda did the legal research and wrote the letter. This is the first
draft, the second one was cleaned up and turned in. I have witheld the
names of the doctors involved, as I feel there is no need to make their
names public, which posting on the Internet tends to do>;-> We have not yet
heard from the program Siobhan is in, which is demanding the vaccinations,
whether or not this letter will be accepted by them as a personal beliefs
exemption.


TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:

This statement of personal beliefs is submitted to
comply with the requirements of the California
Health and Safety Code  section 3385 and with 17
California Code of Regulations sections 6025 and =156051, to
document a personal beliefs exemption from
immunization on behalf of Siobhan O'Connor.  The
undersigned, parents of Siobhan O'Connor, believe
that further immunizations are not in the best
interests of Siobhan, given the unknown etiology of
her neurological and physical problems, and the
reactions she has had to the immunizations she has
received.  We also believe that the vaccinations she
received antidoted her homeopathic remedies,
compromising further her overall health and immune
response.

Siobhan is a 34 month old child with multiple
disabilties.  She cannot walk or talk, is hypotonic
and ataxic. Siobhan's doctors in New York
recommended that we delay her immunizations
pending further knowledge of the origins and
progress of her developmental delays.  Delays were
recommended by [name witheld] in 1992, by [name witheld]
in 1993, and by [name witheld],  in fall of 1994.

There is still a question of whether Siobhan's immune function
is normal, and whether the underlying cause of her
condition presents contraindications for
immunization.  [Name witheld] noted abnormally low
levels of some chemicals, and recommended
investigation of gamma globulin therapy as a way to
improve her immune functioning.  However, given
that there was a pertussis outbreak in Ithaca, NY,
we went ahead with her first DTaP shot.  Siobhan
showed no adverse reactions.  Shortly after this, we
moved to California.

Siobhan received her second DTaP shot on
schedule.  This shot produced swelling and fever,
severe diarrhea and Siobhan's emotional balance was
lost; she became a crying, whining, clingy child.  The
next week she was given killed polio vaccine, and
the following week HiB.  The HiB shot was
followed by 5 days of fevers of 105 degrees.  By this
point she had had diarrhea for 3 weeks, and the
beginnings of a herpes outbreak.  She went
backwards developmentally; for example, stopped
using her walker, would let her legs crumble beneath
her, stopped vocalizing and no longer used the two
words she had acquired.  At the end of these three
weeks, we realized we had a child in serious trouble.
It occurred to us that the vaccines might have
caused reactions, and we sought medical advice.

Siobhan was seen by four doctors.  Three of those
doctors believe that her health problems were clearly
related to the vaccines, and recommended that she
receive no further vaccines; one doctor felt that this
deterioration of her health could not be related to
the vaccines, that one was the doctor who administered
the shots. However, none of the three doctors
who told us to stop vaccinating Siobhan was willing
to write a note exempting her from the vaccines due
to fear of repercussions and investigations by state
licensing officials.

We are unwilling to sacrifice our daughter's health
due to public health concerns and pressures
unrelated to a concern for her individual health.
Siobhan's condition requires further study and
testing before her fitness for vaccinations can be
determined.  Knowledge of whether she is reacting
to factors unrelated to the vaccination can be
established only after establishing a known,
identifiable cause for her condition.  That her
condition is unknown cannot be the basis for a
presumption that the vaccines are safe for her at this
time, and we believe that her reactions to the
vaccines show that they are not.  Due to the illnesses
described above, Siobhan's evaluation by [name witheld],
a developmental pediatrician, was delayed
twice.  Having recently had this evalution by [name witheld]
she has been referred to genetics,orthopedic,
and neurologic clinics, where further
evaluations may establish the etiology of her
condition.  It is our personal belief that only then can
the suitability of immunizations for our child be
ascertained.

We also believe that homeopathy and homeopathic
remedies have significantly improved the functioning
and emotional balance of Siobhan, allowing her to
progress developmentally, and that vaccines
antidoted these remedies.  Siobhan is undergoing
homeopathic treatment to try and regain balance in
her intestinal tract and help her organs process the
toxins in the vaccines.  She has suffered from
alternating diarrhea and constipation since receiving
the vaccines, and the constipation caused a painful
hemorrhoid.  Siobhan is also suffering from a severe
diaper rash.  She needs to recover her health, and it
is our personal belief, based on the deterioration of
her health, that further vaccination is inappropriate
and dangerous.

Sincerely,

Linda Karr O'Connor
Joseph Karr O'Connor

Addendum

We have since learned that the wording necessary for a personal beliefs
exemption from immunizations is available on the California School
Immunization Record, form PM 286 (3/89), 89 52111. The wording is quoted
here:

"PERSONAL BELIEFS AFFIDAVIT TO BE SIGNED BY PARENT OR GUARDIAN -- IMMUNIZAT=
IONS

I hereby request exemption of the child, named on the front, from the
immunization requirements for school/child care center entry because these
immunizations are contrary to my beliefs. I understand that in case of an
outbreak of any one of these diseases, the child may be temporarily
excluded from school for his/her protection."

Since we turned in our letter, the school Siobhan is now attending has
stopped asking for proof of further vaccinations. We take it they are
satisfied that we are serious and/or they have cleared this with their
lawyer(s) and it meets their need to have complete records. Siobhan has a
new homeopath and is on a new remedy. Her rash is finally healing up after
weeks, she is balanced and making good progress. She has returned to the
developmental growth pattern we saw before the immunizations threw her off,
and is very, very happy!

Good luck to all those of you who are struggling with this issue, we hope
you make the right choices for your child. This is our story thus far. We
don't want to do anything but help Siobhan be the best person she can be,
get her the most help we can, and give her all the love we are able to
give. We are not crusaders for or against immunization, indeed, it may be
one of the most important advances in health care the human race has ever
made. Only time will tell. What we want most of all is for the pressure to
be taken off health care professionals so they can tell us the truth on
this issue. I have looked several doctors in the eye as they told me there
were no side effects, negligible side effects, etc., and caught them lying
as they were speaking. Please, if you administer immunizations and you know
something adverse about them up front, I must beg you not to lie outright.
The truth shall set us free. Let us make up our own minds about this issue.
Now that Congress has taken manufacturers off the hook for punitive damages
there is no way you can help your child after the fact if there is damage
from vaccines. Be sure you know what you're doing and don't take anyone's
word for it but your own.

<~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>
Joseph Karr O'Connor
Santa Monica, California, USA
sunfire@earthlink.net

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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=3D=3D=3D=3D
From: CRSinc@GroupZ.net (ALF)
Subject: Vaccines

This is on my home page. "Stay tuned to this page. My
next story will be concerning "Are Vaccines Really Safe.?"
Moms, please do your research on the safety of vaccinations BEFORE YOU
VACCINATE YOUR BABY."

This is a very controversial topic. I hope I can give you enough info to
research and make up your own mind as to whether you should or shouldn't
vaccinate your child.

PLEASE GO TO A MEDICAL LIBRARY AND DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH. You will get so
much more out of this than you will believe from me. I start my research on
vaccine safety before my son was born so that when the time came for me to
decide I would make an informed decision and not let anyone sway me from my
decision based on facts and not heresy from a doctor, nurse, or my own
mother!

The most alarming stats came from the 3 in 1 shot called the dpt shot.
D=3DDiphtheria (epidemic disease affecting mainly the throat and air
passages) P=3DPertussis a.k.a. Whooping cough (infectious disease marked by
fits of convulsive coughing, followed by characteristic loud whoop or
indrawing of breath) T=3DTetanus (disease in which a virus causes spasms of
violent muscular contraction; a.k.a lockjaw)

The following is a disclaimer that is on all vaccine inserts: "As with any
vaccine, vaccination may not result in sero-conversion in all individuals".


Sero-conversion =3D vaccine may not necessarily result in blood antibodies,
and hence, nay not work in everyone.

What they don't give you are the stats on just how many times the vaccine
does work.
Example: 1989 Ohio, Pertussis outbreak. 82% of the children that contracted
the Pertussis were already fully vaccinated.  The children that were
vaccinated against the Pertussis had just as bad a case as if they had not
been vaccinated at all. You hear all the time that "if you are vaccinated
and you come into contact with the virus you will either escape from
contracting the virus at all or you will have a lesser/easier case of the
virus than the person who isn't vaccinated at all." All of the research
that I could get my hands on proved that statement to be utterly false.

This is a hard statement for me to make due to the fact that I love my
child and I would never knowingly inflict any pain on that beautiful gift
from God. However, I can not knowingly give my child a vaccine knowing what
I know today.

Here are the facts:
1. Acquired immunity in childhood will last a lifetime. Most infectious
diseases contracted in childhood are not fatal and are fully recoverable.
Contract the same said infectious disease in adulthood and you might die.

2. Risk benefit analysis is for you to decide. THANK GOD. Our government
and the medical community would have you believe that your child can't
attend daycare or school without being vaccinated against everything known
to man and that is NOT TRUE. Fact: you can send your child to daycare and
school. Here is how.
A. Religious exemption,
B. Doctor's note exempting the child from vaccination,
C. Several states have statutes exempting mandatory vaccination.

3. No one knows how long vaccines last in the first place hence the
supposedly necessary evil of boosters. (This was a big WOW for me!) Note:
refer back to #1.

4. Time line for infants to receive vaccine is made up from several
recommendations based on lab results from pharmacuetical companies. Result
=3D the ultimate conflict of interest.

5. CDC maintains that all infectious diseases can be controlled by
vaccinating the entire population. I found No evidence to support their
claim. In fact the more I search the more I concluded that vaccines do not
work and in fact are responsible for the following; High/high fever
resulting in frying the brain causing sever seizures leading up to and
causing a stroke and eventually possibly death, ADD =3D Attention Deficit
Disorder, Hypertention/hypersensitivity, break down of the bodies own
immune system (draw your own conclusion from THAT), and the list goes own
on from the hugh side effects from vaccinations.

6.  Fact: if the patient has a reaction (red swelling around shot area,
fever , fits of loud crying, etc.) discontinue remaing vaccination
schedule.  The doctor will maintain and the CDC and AMA will maintain that
all babies and adults will have some sort of reaction to a shot. Your
pediatrician will continue with the shot schedule unless you ask to have
the shots discontinued. Also, ask the doctor to document your childs
reaction and forward the patient record to the CDC. I had a terrible time
getting any stats on low level reactions. High level reactions were no
problem. All of these reactions were recorded via emergency room visits and
the morgue. 602 deaths in 1994 were attributed to vaccines. 30,000 recorded
sever injuries from vaccines. Our government has a vaccine fund set up to
pay off survivors.

I could go on and on. I started asking a few questions on a couple of chat
lines and I was overwhelmed by the response. 95% of the responses were
solidly against vaccines.
One of the responses was from a lady in Dayton, Ohio - Kristine M. Severyn,
R. Ph., Ph.D., Director of "Ohio Parents for Vaccine Safety". She is your
best contact for up-to-date info on Vaccine Safety. Phone and fax:(513)
435-4750 Address: 251 W. Ridgeway Dr., Dayton, Ohio 45459.

7. Last but not least and definitely very important - New Chickenpox
vaccine called VARIVAX made by Merck and Co. will be used on our children
as if they were guinea pigs for company profits. Merck's own literature
states "The duration of protection is unknown at present and the need for
booster doses is not defined."

8. Post marketing studies of vaccines utilize the federal Vaccine Adverse
Events Reporting System (VAERS). The government that maintains this system
dismisses VAERS reports as "anecdotal".

Vaccine package insert is the place to start when doing your research.
Please obtain from doctor or pharmacist before you take your child in for
their "scheduled" vaccination. Several good books: "The Immunization
Resource Guide" reviews more than 60 books covering all aspects of
vaccinations,  Several places on the internet.

The following site http://wwwonder.cdc.gov/wonder/prevguid/p0000238/body000=
8.htm
is published by the CDC and when you read this keep that in mind!

CRSinc@GroupZ.net
http://www.groupz.net/~CRSinc/  &  http://www.groupz.net/~CRSinc/fff.html
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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=3D=3D=3D=3D
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 14:46:16 -0500
From: bullard <bullard@gibralter.net>
To: gazissax@netcom.com
Subject: Re: misc.kids FAQ on Childhood Vaccinations, Part 4/4

I'll be brief.  I strongly believe that vaccinations are out there=20
to benefit our children.  My son has cong. heart disease, and to do=20
nothing would be out of the question.  Known fact~~  your child is=20
more at risk of disease if you do not vaccinate him/her.  There isn't=20
anyone who can look into the future and determine whether or not
our children are going to be free of problems.  If you do nothing,=20
when you can do something~~ then that is ignorance.  You can't blame=20
yourself for something that may or may not happen.  =20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 21:06:38 -0800
From: Erin & Sam Viniegra <erinandsam@earthlink.net>
To: gazissax@netcom.com
Subject: vaccinations

I feel I need to share the tormenting decision I had to make regarding
my sons vaccinations, and the light I found at the end of the tunnel.
Let me begin by telling you that if the decision were completely up to
me, I probably wouldn't have done so. Although my husband (whos father
is a doctor) felt very strongly about doing so. We argued for quite
awhile over the matter. I believe in alternative medicines and had an
alternate plan brought to my attention. In the end he has been
vaccinated for most of them. The exception being Varicella (chicken
pox). We chose to wait to see if he got them on his own as a child, and
if not we may opt to do it later.
I have Kaiser and my doctor is still fighting me on the decisions we
have made. I chose to have him vaccinated for one thing at a time with
at least a two month period in between. I contacted National Homeopathic
Products (800)888-4066 in Madison, Wi and ordered several=20
pre-vaccination kits; one for each shot to be given. The theory behind
this is that giving them the homeopathics prior boosts their  immune
systems preparing them for the shot. The homeopathics given after the
shot cleanses their systems of any toxins ( which are used in the base
of all vaccinations). This way I have felt more at ease, my husband is
satisfied, and my son has never had any discomfort, fever, and sometimes
he doesn't even cry when he gets the shot. I hope this helps someone
else who may be in the same position I was.

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=3D=3D=3D=3D
From: mstopp <mstopp@as.net> (Beth Topp)
[This story consists of excerpts from a much longer story
which is available at: http://www.avn.org.au/robert_s.htm.
Since this FAQ is posted on Usenet, to keep the post length
short, I am excerpting from her story rather than including
it in full. - LG]

     Am I writing to you because I would not be able to live with myself if=
 I
didn't try to prevent other people from having to experience the same trage=
dy
that our family did this summer.

    On May 28,1999 my 10 year old son and his 13 year old brother received =
the
first of three "mandatory" Hepatitis B vaccines.  My 10 year old son
experienced mental, physical and personality deviations almost immediately.
Five days later the left side of his face was paralyzed followed shortly by=
 his
left arm, then his abominable muscles and legs.  He has been diagnosed with
Central Nervous System demylination/autoimmune disorder from serious advers=
e
reaction to Hepatitis B.   The prognosis and severity of both are unknown.
There are no practice standards of treatment.

Our families story about the devastating effects of the Hep B vaccine law J=
une
1999


I could not imagine a more difficult task than describing how my son was be=
fore
the shot. With every word I feel that bright, curious, considerate, beautif=
ul
little boy getting farther away. My son is still here, but he=92s not the s=
ame.
He changed literally overnight. He had a thorough physical exam and our doc=
tor
said he was in great shape. A few minutes later the nurse gave him his firs=
t
"mandatory " Hepatitis B vaccine. The following morning he was different.
Different looking, different acting. I keep explaining this difference to a=
ll
the doctors.

I realize that it is hard to get past the fact that he is paralyzed on one
side, but that for us is only the tip of the iceberg. There is something el=
se
going on here. There is something really wrong with him. Mentally, physical=
ly,
and personality wise he is a different kid.

I can=92t expect a doctor who has never met him to realize what a dramatic
transformation this is because they have nothing to compare him to. I am ho=
ping
that my memories will be enough to help them understand how much of my chil=
d is
missing. I hope I can make them understand how special he is and help them =
find
some way to bring my little boy back to me. I=92m not asking for a miracle,=
 but
just to understand what is happening to him, so maybe I can help fix it. I =
am
so desperate, I will try anything. If he was dead I could mourn him and if =
he
was missing I could look for him and if he had cancer I find the best docto=
rs
for treatment and comfort him. But he has turned into someone else and I do=
n=92t
know what I am supposed to do. I don=92t know how I am supposed to do it.

I enjoy my kids. With six of them there is never a dull moment. They are al=
l
good kids, but Robert was always the perfect child. If you asked the other =
kids
they=92d agree. He was the good one.

Since the day he was born, a perfect little angel with a halo of beautiful
white blonde hair and wise blue eyes. He was content. He didn=92t have coli=
c or
get fussy. He never showed any sign of a temper and was patient to a fault.=
 He
was always so happy and agreeable. He was a natural athlete, nice, trying t=
o
please and very bright.

To say he was very bright doesn=92t seem to do justice to his intelligence.=
 He
was a straight A student, every year and had scores of 100 percent on the s=
tate
tests. His fourth grade teacher encouraged me to sign him up for our local
college and he was accepted, but I decided a junior college wasn=92t the be=
st
place for a little boy to be a little boy. He went to the Gifted and Talent=
ed
Education Program.

Robert loved to think. He was so curious. He was always asking questions an=
d
loved to figure out brain teasers and word problems. His brothers nicknamed=
 him
"Poindexter" and teased him because he would say "Well, actually..." everyt=
ime
he corrected you. And he was always right. But he never bragged. In fact to
Robert it wasn=92t any big deal. Even though he mastered most things immedi=
ately=20
he enjoyed practicing them as well. To keep himself challenged, he would ti=
me
himself and try to get his homework done in record times. I never had to te=
ll
him to do his homework, it was always done. Robert demanded so much of hims=
elf
that I never had to worry about him.

Robert was pleasant, calm, agreeable, mature, intelligent, athletic,
coordinated, focused, self-disciplined, responsible, considerate and so
fantastic every minute you had to remind yourself that he was there...never=
 any
trouble. The day before this nightmare began I was on the phone talking to =
my
sister. I was catching her up on all the kids and I commented that I always
have something to talk about for everyone but Robert. Robert is always the
same, perfect as always. Nothing new. Straight A=92s, no trouble, no proble=
ms,
fantastic as always. She laughed and reminded me when Rob broke both his ar=
ms
all anyone talked about was his brother who hit him with the car. I told he=
r if
all the kids were as easy as Rob, I=92d have a lower phone bill because I=
=92d have=20
nothing to talk about.

You really would have to know Robert to understand how radical a change the=
re
was after the shot. He=92s not the same anymore in anyway. He=92s really ti=
cklish
now. And has no tolerance for pain. If you step on his toe he screams and f=
alls
down crying in agony. Then he jumps up and wants to attack whoever hurt him=
. He
is mean to little kids. He argues and fights and demands that everything be
fair. He gets lost. He looks lost. He can=92t do basic subtraction. He can=
=92t
remember anything. He forgets what we did yesterday and doesn=92t have the
ability to think back and remember the last time he went to the bathroom. H=
e is
cold even when it is 90 degrees. He gets exhausted walking and gets noseble=
eds
alot. His face doesn=92t move on the left side. He can=92t even close his e=
ye or
blink. His face sometimes looks twisted tight and severe. Other times it lo=
oks
like it is sliding off his head. His mouth doesn=92t work so he drools, has
trouble swallowing., slurs words. and when he drinks it runs right down his
chin. The only thing he likes to eat is yogurt and does this weird thing wi=
th
the right side of his tongue licking the spoon. He eats by putting his face
down by the plate.                                            =20

People stare at him constantly. This attention is really hard to take. He n=
ever
wanted to be the center of attention when he deserved it and he really does=
n=92t
want it now. That=92s hard for all of us to take.

He can=92t handle the simplest of tasks. It=92s things like putting items i=
n the
diaper bag to bring in the house. First he picked up everything and then pi=
cked
up the diaper bag. He wasn=92t able to get the zipper open because his hand=
s were
full. Instead of putting the stuff down and opening the zipper, he was stum=
ped.
He started to carry it all inside, but dropped a few things on the ground. =
He
was almost to the house when he decided to go back and get the stuff he
dropped. He then dropped more stuff when he tried to bend over. Finally he =
took
the empty bag in the house and made several trips back outside to get the
stuff. I put it in the bag and then went out side to shut the car door.
Afterwards he had to lay down and said he didn=92t know why he was so tired=
.
                                                                         =
=20
We went to a block party at our local ice cream shop. They sold raffle tick=
ets
for all sorts of prizes donated by local merchants. Robert had three
consecutive tickets, 513, 514, and 515. They raffled off over 60 prizes in
between songs. My son stared at these three tickets for the entire evening.=
 He
held them in his hand in front of his face. Everytime a number was called h=
e
would look at each of the three tickets. Even if the number was 247, he had=
 to
look at each of the three tickets to see what the numbers were. Everyone el=
se
was talking, listening to the band and having fun except Robert. He stood i=
n
one spot and had to focus entirely on three consecutive numbers. After watc=
hing
him do this for over an hour, I asked him what his numbers were. He looked =
at
them and turned to tell me but couldn=92t. Then he showed me the tickets so=
 I
could look for myself. It is awful to see him like this. My sweet, brillian=
t,
dynamic, little boy. My heart was breaking for him. It scared him and he se=
emed
to withdraw like a turtle into his shell. His shoulders slouched and his ch=
in
went to his chest and he wasn=92t there. I asked him what was wrong and he =
said
he was cold. We went to the car to get his jacket even though it was a
beautiful summer evening. He stumbled a few times on the way to the car so =
I
took him by the elbow to guide him. He put on his jacket with the collar up=
 and
hid in it.

He seemed to feel a little better and I asked if he wanted something to eat=
.
The only thing he orders at this place is a corndog and rootbeer. He has li=
ved
here his entire life and that is all he has ever ordered, he loves it. His
brother wanted chili cheese fries so I gave Robert some money and he just s=
tood
there. I told him to go inside I would follow him in there. He stumbled on =
the
step and then barely had the strength to open the door. There was no line s=
o we
didn=92t wait at all to place the order. Robert stood at the counter lookin=
g
completely lost. When the girl asked him what he wanted he looked at me, bu=
t I
told him to go ahead and tell her what he wanted. He struggled and came up =
with
chili cheese fries. The girl asked if that was it and Rob just stared at he=
r.
Then he said "yes, I=92m not hungry". I said "I thought you said you were
hungry?" He said, "Yes, but I can share the fries". So I pushed a little mo=
re
by asking "Fries? What happen to your usual corndog and rootbeer." He looke=
d so
relieved as if I had rescued him, "That=92s right, I=92ll have a corndog an=
d a
large rootbeer." It was then that he realized there was something wrong wit=
h
him and others could tell. He was tucked back into his jacket before the gi=
rl
handed me our change.

I keep a log of what each day is like. Sometimes it seems that the harder t=
he
day the less I can write down. I suppose it is self preservation on my part=
 to
avoid any thing that would put me over the edge. Some days I feel so close.
Especially when we have to interact with doctor=92s or the medical professi=
on.
The system makes them appear apathetic and detached. But I haven=92t met a =
single
doctor or nurse who wasn=92t truly affected by Robert=92s pathetic state. T=
hey are
sorry. That is the worst. I want them too fix him and they are sorry. We en=
ded
up in a urgent care bed after Robert collapsed during a doctors appointment=
.
The fourth doctor we saw asked me about his situation, then asked what he c=
ould
do for me. I almost lost it when I told him "How was I supposed to know? I=
=92m
not a doctor." He didn=92t get mad or walk away. He touched my arm and told=
 me he
was sorry and wanted to do what he could. I couldn=92t get angry so I am sa=
d and
it just hurts.
       =20
The same goes for everyone I=92ve called for information on what treatment =
is
available. I keep calling and reading and trying to find something on how t=
o
cure my son. I=92ve talked to doctors, experts, advocate, parents, and othe=
rs
like Robert. People are so kind. They listen, they care and then they say t=
hey
are sorry. And I wait...I keep waiting for them to continue. But they don=
=92t
continue. So I repeat myself and say my son was seriously injured by the He=
p B
Vaccine and I thought they might have information that could help us. Anyth=
ing
at all, please. They say they are sorry again. Some give me the name of a
lawyer or tell me about the compensation offered. I thought they said this
because the cure was expensive. All I am interested in is my son=92s health=
 and
making sure he gets better. They listen as I go on and on. They are kind an=
d
they understand. They are sorry. Sorry doesn=92t bring him back. Compensati=
on
won=92t do it either. We need a doctor not a lawyer. So I keep searching an=
d
praying. I pray that if I ever receive a call from a desperate mother I wil=
l
have something to tell her besides sorry.

Please don=92t say you are sorry. Just bring Robert back.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D

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