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comp.compression Frequently Asked Questions (part 1/3)
Section - [9] Compression of random data (WEB, Gilbert and others)

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Top Document: comp.compression Frequently Asked Questions (part 1/3)
Previous Document: [8] What about patents on data compression algorithms?
Next Document: [10] Fake compression programs (OWS, WIC)
See reader questions & answers on this topic! - Help others by sharing your knowledge

[Note from the FAQ maintainer: this topic has generated and is still generating
the greatest volume of news in the history of comp.compression. Read this
before posting on this subject.

I intended to remove the WEB story from the FAQ, but similar affairs come up
regularly on comp.compression.  The advertized revolutionary methods have all
in common their supposed ability to compress random or already compressed data.
I will keep this item in the FAQ to encourage people to take such claims with
great precautions.]

9.1 Introduction

It is mathematically impossible to create a program compressing without loss
*all* files by at least one bit (see below and also item 73 in part 2 of this
FAQ). Yet from time to time some people claim to have invented a new algorithm
for doing so. Such algorithms are claimed to compress random data and to be
applicable recursively, that is, applying the compressor to the compressed
output of the previous run, possibly multiple times. Fantastic compression
ratios of over 100:1 on random data are claimed to be actually obtained.

Such claims inevitably generate a lot of activity on comp.compression, which
can last for several months. Large bursts of activity were generated by WEB
Technologies and by Jules Gilbert. Premier Research Corporation (with a
compressor called MINC) made only a brief appearance but came back later with a
Web page at  The Hyper Space method invented by David
C. James is another contender with a patent obtained in July 96. Another large
burst occured in Dec 97 and Jan 98: Matthew Burch <> applied
for a patent in Dec 97, but publicly admitted a few days later that his method
was flawed; he then posted several dozen messages in a few days about another
magic method based on primes, and again ended up admitting that his new method
was flawed. (Usually people disappear from comp.compression and appear again 6
months or a year later, rather than admitting their error.)

Other people have also claimed incredible compression ratios, but the programs
(OWS, WIC) were quickly shown to be fake (not compressing at all). This topic
is covered in item 10 of this FAQ.

9.2 The counting argument

[This section should probably be called "The counting theorem" because some
people think that "argument" implies that it is only an hypothesis, not a
proven mathematical fact. The "counting argument" is actually the proof of the

The WEB compressor (see details in section 9.3 below) was claimed to compress
without loss *all* files of greater than 64KB in size to about 1/16th their
original length. A very simple counting argument shows that this is impossible,
regardless of the compression method. It is even impossible to guarantee
lossless compression of all files by at least one bit. (Many other proofs have
been posted on comp.compression, please do not post yet another one.)

  No program can compress without loss *all* files of size >= N bits, for
  any given integer N >= 0.

  Assume that the program can compress without loss all files of size >= N
  bits.  Compress with this program all the 2^N files which have exactly N
  bits.  All compressed files have at most N-1 bits, so there are at most
  (2^N)-1 different compressed files [2^(N-1) files of size N-1, 2^(N-2) of
  size N-2, and so on, down to 1 file of size 0]. So at least two different
  input files must compress to the same output file. Hence the compression
  program cannot be lossless.

The proof is called the "counting argument". It uses the so-called pigeon-hole
principle: you can't put 16 pigeons into 15 holes without using one of the
holes twice.

Much stronger results about the number of incompressible files can be obtained,
but the proofs are a little more complex. (The MINC page
uses one file of strictly negative size to obtain 2^N instead of (2^N)-1
distinct files of size <= N-1 .)

This argument applies of course to WEB's case (take N = 64K*8 bits).  Note that
no assumption is made about the compression algorithm.  The proof applies to
*any* algorithm, including those using an external dictionary, or repeated
application of another algorithm, or combination of different algorithms, or
representation of the data as formulas, etc... All schemes are subject to the
counting argument.  There is no need to use information theory to provide a
proof, just very basic mathematics. [People interested in more elaborate proofs
can consult ]

In short, the counting argument says that if a lossless compression program
compresses some files, it must expand others, *regardless* of the compression
method, because otherwise there are simply not enough bits to enumerate all
possible output files. Despite the extreme simplicity of this theorem and its
proof, some people still fail to grasp it and waste a lot of time trying to
find a counter-example.

This assumes of course that the information available to the decompressor is
only the bit sequence of the compressed data. If external information such as a
file name, a number of iterations, or a bit length is necessary to decompress
the data, the bits necessary to provide the extra information must be included
in the bit count of the compressed data.  Otherwise, it would be sufficient to
consider any input data as a number, use this as the file name, iteration count
or bit length, and pretend that the compressed size is zero.  For an example of
storing information in the file name, see the program lmfjyh in the 1993
International Obfuscated C Code Contest, available on all comp.sources.misc
archives (Volume 39, Issue 104).

A common flaw in the algorithms claimed to compress all files is to assume that
arbitrary bit strings can be sent to the decompressor without actually
transmitting their bit length. If the decompressor needs such bit lengths
to decode the data (when the bit strings do not form a prefix code), the
number of bits needed to encode those lengths must be taken into account
in the total size of the compressed data.

Another common (but still incorrect) argument is to assume that for any file,
some still to be discovered algorithm might find a seed for a pseudo-random
number generator which would actually generate the whole sequence of bytes
contained in the file. However this idea still fails to take into account the
counting argument. For example, if the seed is limited to 64 bits, this
algorithm can generate at most 2^64 different files, and thus is unable to
compress *all* files longer than 8 bytes. For more details about this
"magic function theory", see

Yet another popular idea is to split the input bit stream into a sequence of
large numbers, and factorize those numbers. Unfortunately, the number of bits
required to encode the factors and their exponents is on average not smaller
than the number of bits of the original bit stream, so this scheme too cannot
compress all data. Another idea also related to primes is to encode each
number as an index into a table of primes and an offset relative to the indexed
prime; this idea doesn't work either because the number of bits required to
encode the index, the offset and the separation between index and offset
is on average not smaller than the number of bits of the original bit stream.

Steve Tate <> suggests a good challenge for programs
that are claimed to compress any data by a significant amount:
    Here's a wager for you: First, send me the DEcompression algorithm.  Then I
    will send you a file of whatever size you want, but at least 100k.  If you
    can send me back a compressed version that is even 20% shorter (80k if the
    input is 100k) I'll send you $100.  Of course, the file must be able to be
    decompressed with the program you previously sent me, and must match
    exactly my original file.  Now what are you going to provide
    when... er... if you can't demonstrate your compression in such a way?

So far no one has accepted this challenge (for good reasons).

Mike Goldman <> makes another offer:

    I will attach a prize of $5,000 to anyone who successfully meets this
    challenge.  First, the contestant will tell me HOW LONG of a data file to
    generate.  Second, I will generate the data file, and send it to the
    contestant.  Last, the contestant will send me a decompressor and a
    compressed file, which will together total in size less than the original
    data file, and which will be able to restore the compressed file to the
    original state.

    With this offer, you can tune your algorithm to my data.  You tell me the
    parameters of size in advance.  All I get to do is arrange the bits within
    my file according to the dictates of my whim.  As a processing fee, I will
    require an advance deposit of $100 from any contestant.  This deposit is
    100% refundable if you meet the challenge.

9.3 The WEB 16:1 compressor

9.3.1 What the press says

April 20, 1992  Byte Week Vol 4. No. 25:

   "In an announcement that has generated high interest - and more than a
   bit of skepticism - WEB Technologies (Smyrna, GA) says it has
   developed a utility that will compress files of greater than 64KB in
   size to about 1/16th their original length.  Furthermore, WEB says its
   DataFiles/16 program can shrink files it has already compressed."
   "A week after our preliminary test, WEB showed us the program successfully
   compressing a file without losing any data.  But we have not been able
   to test this latest beta release ourselves."
   "WEB, in fact, says that virtually any amount of data can be squeezed 
   to under 1024 bytes by using DataFiles/16 to compress its own output
   multiple times."

June 1992 Byte, Vol 17 No 6:

   [...] According to Earl Bradley, WEB Technologies' vice president of
   sales and marketing, the compression algorithm used by DataFiles/16
   is not subject to the laws of information theory. [...]

9.3.2 First details, by John Wallace <>

I called WEB at (404)514-8000 and they sent me some product
literature as well as chatting for a few minutes with me on the phone.
Their product is called DataFiles/16, and their claims for it are
roughly those heard on the net.

According to their flier:

"DataFiles/16 will compress all types of binary files to approximately
one-sixteenth of their original size ... regardless of the type of
file (word processing document, spreadsheet file, image file,
executable file, etc.), NO DATA WILL BE LOST by DataFiles/16."
(Their capitalizations; 16:1 compression only promised for files >64K
bytes in length.)

"Performed on a 386/25 machine, the program can complete a
compression/decompression cycle on one megabyte of data in less than
thirty seconds"

"The compressed output file created by DataFiles/16 can be used as the 
input file to subsequent executions of the program.  This feature of 
the utility is known as recursive or iterative compression, and will 
enable you to compress your data files to a tiny fraction of the 
original size.  In fact, virtually any amount of computer data can 
be compressed to under 1024 bytes using DataFiles/16 to compress its 
own output files muliple times.  Then, by repeating in reverse the 
steps taken to perform the recusive compression, all original data 
can be decompressed to its original form without the loss of a single 

Their flier also claims: 

"Constant levels of compression across ALL TYPES of FILES"
"Convenient, single floppy DATA TRANSPORTATION"

From my telephone conversation, I was assured that this is an
actual compression program.  Decompression is done by using only the 
data in the compressed file; there are no hidden or extra files.

9.3.3 More information, by Rafael Ramirez <>:

   Today (Tuesday, 28th) I got a call from Earl Bradley of Web
who now says that they have put off releasing a software version of
the algorithm because they are close to signing a major contract with
a big company to put the algorithm in silicon.  He said he could not
name the company due to non-disclosure agreements, but that they had
run extensive independent tests of their own and verified that the
algorithm works. [...]

He said the algorithm is so simple that he doesn't want anybody
getting their hands on it and copying it even though he said they
have filed a patent on it. [...] Mr. Bradley said the silicon version
would hold up much better to patent enforcement and be harder to copy.

   He claimed that the algorithm takes up about 4K of code, uses only
integer math, and the current software implementation only uses a 65K
buffer.  He said the silicon version would likely use a parallel
version and work in real-time. [...]

9.3.4 No software version

Appeared on BIX, reposted by Bruce Hoult <>:

tojerry/chaos #673, from abailey, 562 chars, Tue Jun 16 20:40:34 1992
TITLE: WEB Technology
I promised everyone a report when I finally got the poop on WEB's
16:1 data compression. After talking back and forth for a year
and being put off for the past month by un-returned phone calls,
I finally got hold of Marc Spindler who is their sales manager.
_No_ software product is forth coming, period!
He began talking about hardware they are designing for delivery
at the end of the year. [...]

9.3.5 Product cancelled

Posted by John Toebes <> on Aug 10th, 1992:

[Long story omitted, confirming the reports made above about the
original WEB claims.]

10JUL92 - Called to Check Status.  Was told that testing had uncovered a
          new problem where 'four numbers in a matrix were the same
          value' and that the programmers were off attempting to code a
          preprocessor to eliminate this rare case.  I indicated that he
          had told me this story before.  He told me that the
          programmers were still working on the problem.

31JUL92 - Final Call to Check Status.  Called Earl in the morning and
          was told that he still had not heard from the programmers. [...]
          Stated that if they could not resolve the problem then there would
          probably not be a product.

03AUG92 - Final Call.  Earl claims that the programmers are unable to
          resolve the problem.  I asked if this meant that there would
          not be a product as a result and he said yes.

9.3.6 Byte's final report

Extract from the Nov. 95 issue of Byte, page 42:

Not suprisingly, the beta version of DataFiles/16 that reporter Russ Schnapp
tested didn't work. DataFiles/16 compressed files, but when decompressed, those
files bore no resemblance to their originals. WEB said it would send us a
version of the program that worked, but we never received it.

When we attempted to follow up on the story about three months later, the
company's phone had been disconnected. Attempts to reach company officers
were also unsuccessful. [...]

9.4 Jules Gilbert

As opposed to WEB Technologies, Jules Gilbert <> does not
claim to compress *all* files, but only "random or random-appearing" files.
Here are some quotes from a few of Mr Gilbert's articles, which can be helpful
to get a better idea of his claims. No comments or conclusions are given; if
you need more information contact Mr. Gilbert directly.

  From: (Jules Gilbert)
  Newsgroups: comp.compression
  Subject: Re: No Magic Compressors, No Factoring Compressors, Jules Gilbert
    is a liar
  Date: 14 May 1996 03:13:31 -0400
  Message-ID: <4n9bqr$>

  I will, in front of several Boston area computer scientists ('monitors'),
  people I choose but generally known to be fair and competent, under
  conditions which are sufficient to prevent disclosure of the method and fully
  protect the algorithm and other aspects of the underlying method from
  untoward discovery, use two computers, (which I am permitted to examine but
  not alter) with both machine's running Linux, and with the file-systems and
  Linux OS freshly restored from commercial CD-ROM's do the following:

  On one machine (the 'src-CPU') will be loaded a copy of the CALGARY-CORPUS.
  (Or other agreed on '.ZIP' or '.ARJ' file.)

  I will compress the CALGARY-CORPUS for transfer from the src-CPU onto 3.5"
  disks and transfer it (by sneaker-net) to the other machine for decompression
  and produce a perfect copy of the CORPUS file on the 'dst-CPU'.

  The CORPUS archive contents will not be 'cracked', ie', the original CORPUS
  can be encrypted and the password kept from me.  All I care about is that the
  input file is highly random-aprearing.

  I claim that I can perform this process several times, and each iteration
  will reduce the overall file by at least 50%, ie., a ratio of 2:1.  An
  'iteration' will constitute copying, using compression, from the src-CPU to
  the dst-CPU, and then reversing the direction to achieve another iteration.

  For example, for say a 4M input file, it is reasonable to expect an
  approximately 1M output file, after two complete iterations.
  If one iteration (of the compression 'sandwich') consists of two parts, say
  an LZ phase followed by a JG phase, the LZ method will compression by
  perhaps a ration of 2:1 (at the first iteration), perhaps much better if the
  input is text, and the JG phase will do 3-4:1, but slowly!!  During
  subsequent iterations, the LZ phase will do perhaps 1.25:1 and the JG phase
  will continue to do about 3-4:1.

  Experimentally, I have achieved compression results of nearly 150:1, overall,
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^                                                ^^^^^
  for a 60M file.  (I started with a '.arj' archive of a large DOS partition.)
  From: (Jules Gilbert)
  Newsgroups: comp.compression
  Subject: Re: Explanation: that uh, alg thing...
  Date: 15 May 1996 16:38:18 -0400
  Message-ID: <4ndfbq$>

  One more thing, I am preparing a short technical note to deal with the reason
  most programmers' and computer scientists' think it's impossible to (further)
  compress random input.  (Many people think that because you can't get more
  than 2^N messages from a N-bit compressed msg, that it means that you can't
  compress random input.  (Lot's of folks have told me that.)  The short story

  I agree that you can not get more than 2^N messages from N bits.  No question
  From: (Jules Gilbert)
  Newsgroups: comp.compression
  Subject: Seeing is believing!
  Date: 9 Jun 1996 03:20:52 -0400
  Message-ID: <4pdu0k$>

  If your firm needs industrial-strength compression, contact ''
  and ask us for an on-site demonstration of our MR2 compressors.  Each can
  compress large files of 'random-appearing' information, whether RSA-encrypted
  blocks, or files already compressed using LZ-techniques.

  Our demonstration will give you the opportunity to observe compression of
  'random-appearing' files of at least 100MB by at least 3:1 per iteration.
  Usually, several iterations are possible.  (These are minimum figures easily
  From: (Jules Gilbert)
  Newsgroups: comp.compression
  Subject: Re: My remarks on Jules Gilbert
  Date: 24 Jul 1996 18:05:44 -0400
  Message-ID: <4t66no$>

  My claims can not possibly be true IF I'M PLAYING BY THE 'RULES' THAT YOU
  ASSUME APPLY TO ME.  (Sorry to shout).

  Clearly, anyone sending a signal (in the Shannon context), is constrained by
  limits which make it impossible to compress RAD ('random-appearing data')
  1)  I can't compress bits any better than the next guy.  Maybe not as well,
      in fact.  

  2)  I have designed an engine that accepts RAD input and emits far too little
      data to reconstitute the original data, based on conventional
      assumptions. Okay!   I know this.

  3)  But, I none-the-less reconstitute the original data.
  From: (Jules Gilbert)
  Newsgroups: comp.compression
  Subject: Re: Jules Gilbert's New Compresssion Technology
  Date: 12 Aug 1996 08:11:10 -0400
  Message-ID: <4un70u$>

  I have multiple methods for compressing RAD.  Watch carefully:

  MR1 does 3:1, on large buffers and is repeatable until the volume of input
  data falls below 128k or so.  (This figure is under user control, but
  compreesion quality will suffer as the buffer size is decreased).  Recent
  changes make this method about as fast as any conventional compressor.

  MR2 does at least 6:1, with a minimum buffer size of perhaps 32k.  It is also
  repeatable.  MR2 does not actually compress, though.  Instead, it translates
  an input buffer into an output buffer of roughly equivalent size.  This
  output buffer contains mostly constants, and other things, such as simple
  sequences: 28,29,31,32,33,35,40,41,42,43,44,45.  (An actual sequence of
  bytes).  Obviously, this kind of information is readily compressed, and that
  is why I claim that MR2 can achieve a minimum of 6:1.  Again, like MR1, this
  process can be re-applied over it's own output.

  When, I've said, "No, it's impossible to compress by 100:1" I was trying to
  get this audience to see this as realistic.  But I can compress RAD files
  100:1 if allowed to re-process the output through the same process.  I first
  actually achieved a 100:1 compression level in March of this year using tools
  designed for experimenting in RAD issues.  But now I have C programs which
  have been written to be easy to understand and are intended to be part of my
  technology transfer process for clients.
  So, can someone compress by 100:1 or even 1000:1?  Yes! But ONLY if the input
  file is sufficiently large.  A 1000:1 compression ratio would require a very
  large input file, and, at least for PC users, archive files of this size are
  almost never produced.
  From: (Jules Gilbert)
  Newsgroups: comp.compression
  Subject: Re: Gilbert's RAD compression product
  Date: 18 Aug 1996 08:40:28 -0400
  Message-ID: <4v72vs$>

  (In my original remarks), I am quoted above as claiming that a 3,152,896 byte
  'tar 'file (conventionally compressed to 1,029,790 bytes) can be compressed
  to 50*1024 bytes.  It's an accurate quote.

  Now how can that be possible?

  If a gzip compressed version of the Corpus requires roughly a 1MB, what do I
  do with the 950k bytes I don't store in the compressed intermediate file?

  Well, that's certainly a puzzler!

  For now, all I will say is that it does not go into the compressed
  intermediate file.  And because it doesn't, Shannons' channel capacity axioms
  apply only to the 50k component.
  From: (Jules Gilbert)
  Newsgroups: comp.compression
  Subject: Some answers about MR1
  Date: 22 Aug 1996 23:45:54 -0400
  Message-ID: <4vj9hi$>

  However, arrangements are being made to do another demo in September at MIT. 

  One of the files compressed and decompressed will be the Corpus, after it's
  already been compressed using ARJ, a good quality conventional compressor.
  (It should be about a 1MB at that point).  My program has made the corpus
  as small as 6k, although that requires SEVERAL separate physical passes.
  Because we will only have a few minutes to spend on this single file, I'll
  likely stop at 250k or so.

  Under Linux, the total size of the compressor and decompressor load modules
  is about 50k bytes.  And under DOS, using the Intel C compiler (a great
  product, but sadly, not sold anymore), the same files total about 300k bytes.

  MR1 contains code that is highly dependent on the particularities of a host
  computer's floating point processor, or more correctly, architectural differ-
  ences existing between the source machine and the target machine would likely
  cause failure to de-compress.

9.5 Patents on compression of random data or recursive compression

9.5.1 David C. James

On July 2, 1996, David C. James was granted patent 5,533,051 "Method for data
compression" for a method claimed to be effective even on random data.

  From: (Peter J. Cranstone)
  Newsgroups: comp.compression
  Subject: Re: Jules Gilbert's Compression Technology
  Date: Sun Aug 18 12:48:11 EDT 1996

  Wh have just been issued a patent (US. #5,533,051) and have several more
  pending on a new method for data compression. It will compess all types of
  data, including "random", and data containing a uniform distribution of
  "0's" and "1's".

The first line of the patent abstract is:

  Methods for compressing data including methods for compressing highly
  randomized data are disclosed.

Page 3, line 34 of the patent states:

  A second aspect of the present invention which further enhances its ability
  to achieve high compression percentages, is its ability to be applied to
  data recursively. Specifically, the methods of the present invention are
  able to make multiple passes over a file, each time further compressing the
  file. Thus, a series of recursions are repeated until the desired
  compression level is achieved.

Page 27, line 18 of the patent states that the claimed method can compress
without loss *all* files by at least one bit:

  the direct bit encode method of the present invention is effective for
  reducing an input string by one bit regardless of the bit pattern of the
  input string.

The counting argument shows that this is mathematically impossible (see section
9.2) above. If the method were indeed able to shrink any file by at least one
bit, applying it recursively would shrink gigabytes down to a few bits.

The patent contains evasive arguments to justify the impossible claims:

Page 12, line 22:

  Of course, this does not take into account any overhead registers or other
  "house-keeping" type information which must be tracked. However such
  overhead tends to be negligible when processing the large quantities of
  data typically encountered in data compression applications.

Page 27, line 17:

  Thus, one skilled in the art can see that by keeping the appropriate
  counters, the direct bit encode method of the present invention is
  effective for reducing an input string by one bit regardless of the bit
  pattern of the input string. Although a certain amount of "loss" is
  necessary in keeping and maintaining various counters and registers, for
  files which are sufficiently large, this overhead is insignificant compared
  to the savings obtained by the direct bit encode method.

The flaw in these arguments is that the the "house-keeping" type information
is *not* negligible. If it is properly taken it into account, it cancels any
gains made elsewhere when attempting to compress random data.

The patent contains even more evasive arguments:

Page 22, line 31:

  It is commonly stated that perfectly entropic data streams cannot be
  compressed. This misbelief is in part based on the sobering fact that for a
  large set of entropic data, calculating the number of possible bit pattern
  combinations is unfathomable. For example, if 100 ones and 100 zeros are
  randomly distributed in a block 200 bits long, there are
     200C100 = 9.055 10^58
  combinations possible. The numbers are clearly unmanageable and hence the
  inception that perfectly entropic data streams cannot be compressed. The
  key to the present compression method under discussion is that it makes no
  attempt to deal with such large amounts of data and simply operates on
  smaller portions.

The actual claims of the patent are harmless since they only describe
methods which cannot work (they actually expand random data instead of
compressing it). For example, claims 6 and 7 are:

 6. A method of compressing a stream of binary data, comprising the steps of:
  A) parsing n-bits from said stream of binary data;
  B) determining the value of said parsed n-bits;
  C) based on the results of step B, coding said values of said n-bits in at
     least one of a first, second, and third target string, wherein coding
     said value includes generating a plurality of code strings and
     correlating said value with one of said code strings and dividing said
     correlated code string variable length codes and dividing at least some
     of said into at least first and second segments, and assigning at least
     one of said correlated code string segments to at least one of said
     first, second, and third target strings, wherein at least one of said
     plurality of codes is not greater than n-1 bits long.

 7. The method of compressing a stream of binary data of claim 6, wherein n=2.

Making abstraction of the legalese, claim 7 says in short that you can
compress an arbitrary sequence of two bits down to one bit.

9.5.2 Michael L. Cole

Patent 5,488,364 "Recursive data compression", granted Jan. 30, 1996,
also claims that recursive compression of random data is possible. See for the text and a short
analysis of this patent.

9.5.3 John F. Remillard

Patent 5,486,826 "Method and apparatus for iterative compression of
digital data" uses methods very similar to those of the "magic
function theory" (see section 9.2 above).  The patent is available at

See also from the same person patent 5,594,435 "Permutation-based data
The assignee for this patent is Philosophers' Stone LLC. (The Philosopher's
Stone is the key to all the riches in the universe; an LLC is a Limited
Liability Corporation.)

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add on a Deeper Level: This online site help you know a person back to front. The only appearance you have of your mate is his profile picture, Else you have to know it with the help of the chat you have with him. this can help you evaluate a person behind his face, numerous experts judge who these persons are truly are. Such dating platforms leave you unbiased to be love someone you share similar interests with.

Full Disclosure: The online dating sites allow you to specify whatever is your expectation and intention, Right right from the start so that you can find people looking for the same things and interests as of yours. The major benefit of all such platform is that it helps preventing misunderstandings and disappointments.

fee: Last but not the cheapest, Cost saving is the most appealing benefit of online dating because real life dates are expensive. You need to hangout with your partner every weekend and you further have to spend money either on food or night-life or both.

These platforms therefore gives you enable you to get to know the person well in advance through these online portals and thereafter you should spend money on real dates. different, On the very first meet even you must spend money with no surety that you will like the person as a partner or not.
Sep 19, 2021 @ 12:12 pm
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Oct 4, 2021 @ 6:18 pm
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Oct 27, 2021 @ 3:15 pm
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hey baby. my name Lauren!!!
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Nov 14, 2021 @ 10:22 pm
hallo baby.. my name Mary!
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Hi dear!! Im looking a man!
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hallo !! my name Megan!
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Jan 22, 2022 @ 1:13 pm
I can agree with Judyhb in this topic. Her name may really be Evelyn, but she choosed another nickname out of shame. Kind of sad, Evelyn is a nice name..
Also, I want sex! Don't have any photos though :/
Sep 3, 2022 @ 7:19 pm
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May 7, 2023 @ 4:16 pm
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Sep 22, 2023 @ 11:11 am
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Dec 25, 2023 @ 12:12 pm
Matt Mahoney is the trashcan matt or trashcan man. "MY LIFE FOR YOU FLAGG!". We will do the FAGGY PANTS and follow it up with RLE. A close second is Albert Reddit's GAY GZIP, or GAY ZIP, or simply ARZ. We do the faggy pants and it go like this and like that and do the RLE and there we are.

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Last Update March 27 2014 @ 02:11 PM