MEETING NO 35 - 27 SEPTEMBER 1961

Created: 9/27/1961

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follo-.ins tho plan aa laid out in the previous mating.c,

the doss doc*. BOOB added that ho ranted to aoquaint him vithoven though he nag forbidden by no. to do do. Subjectuld report thla to uo tecauao ho mat andasrood. uYTOfEbecausa hla rdfo hadco ccntaotoa by telephone in LONDGJvho rjtqrlrad then ryiE3 to EStCLtre. Thla diaturbed barin tum callod har husband in PfBIS and ho nan further diaturbedoannd ovan that ni*>ttYKKS and oubjoct wore havinsLor subject had catalled bis wife cfiain in LOKDCNa . nakedy ho tag CO ccccorned about BELGRADE, BIBBsubject thatad been prepared properly for tho KLGRAE3recpaot to tho naoacsary ap-oiatco:ito and business detailsthere on behalf of tha Sn^lloh firoi3 raprooontod bytold hin thats prcvi-nted; adeouato preparationsdee to tho tics rccu"vad of hla to spend capinion this tan entirely duoa fault inj in tho froa tins haonnterestsot Subjaot then stated that another basic reason forfcollaj caadlctatiafiodtho linancial

airranscrento snd vho- tho figaros and cenditieno tore cor.ticned byas reported to hia by "jSSIa, thoy tora in ccarileten dotcll. B did not toll subject tha truth ortha factsssicapprehenslon ortas clcvarly lay in3t^^rk for additional futurofurther ctrecaad to cuhject that ha vis unclear ao to his future bocauaahad to cpend so tuch tina cn thohat he too crcdually loson-;of tha firas honfoh rill crop off froa hia and thatbow ko io unprepared to go to EDLGR/DElans to return to LOSDCM. that ho uould notjeoratieniich ho

told that tho concept cyaaatcd fron subject's icaglnution andthat he did infer this to rariTOmee was

fur-har disj-rur.tlcd alloaodly boeauoo ha could diocuso nothing vith subject ovon though thoylosely bound tofpthorrk. Subject stated further

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tilth such en attitude he didcd WKNE to cork eith and added that since Z'nnTZ had cose cwrytiing that raa required of liin andll paid for it and also porforaad hie ivorkyatriot ho ahould ho released il* ho foeloy. But aubject contir-uod vdth the umma breath, and in foot in tho caco conconce, adding that furthermore ho coca not noed ORB until January or Februaryen MKKE trill cocaolo^tion to LGSCCT. Subject folt that the basis forttitude ran entirely roanetary. orting shot aubject said that he did not need

inowrcr it rauld bo tallreturn to PARIS just

prior toepartura, ao that he oould notionally colIvor brochures to cubjoot and sae. hi= off to his pianoarosoll* gesture.

Although these apparent diagruatleiaonto had to be considerederious light beoauso of tho cvorall importance of tho operation, thoy did in face, cn to cospectad, rum cat tooavoost in a. teapot. That very evening

donlod- that hc alokod to stop tork and furtharsore ho did in fact of bio cro volition go to ESTObta cn tho follcning day. All latounderatandings of ooume con and oil! be rcoolvod and tha situation developed to ths point that it did purely as ths result of strained nerves. Thoro is no quo at ion that cubjoot both vittin3ly andcan bo root trying ialiio often canrioiouo de-rands ond handling hln on tho part of all concerned requires great patience even if loaaoratarid* ng is not alnayo possible.

Thilo Rocer *a3 still present subject -oaa requested to reportso that Rc;.cr rauld ba in poooo^oion of those facta priorthat urther oaquol to tha above

a tho part of XTJZQG, it ahould be stated hero that thatat3 hours XlCeXS oallod tohothor cubjoetira cn ths tcoi that nirhi riiichi.roosoiblo and consaquently

-ofuood by subject. On tho ether bond Just priorii>S'o dopartura for yiVTSLTA plena cr the fcdlooin- dry, subject called SEdS and eirpressed his thcaha and gratitude tofor his rscy services and kandnaasoa to aubject andhrase to tho effect that ho had spoken to his friends on behalfd3 end that thoy had agreed to take ccro of tSKffi's problem and 'demands.

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5^/ With respect to the contact with mWkff subject said that aa perho was in hla hotel0 hours and TOME called himdvise hlsi that imTDsdiatcly after tha cloao.of business atiM2 would contact subject againossible mootingcen. Ho did thio5 by phono and instructed subject to corehis hotel. ot was there in one half hour and picked upblTOffi at hie. -ond proceeded in the sates taxi to.theotel whore thoy tientbar. Itr, hoa in tho lobby at "hich point subjectto fjajpi and whon they went to ths bar TWOS tent to orderchile subject .and%fc|aVhad the opportunity of, discussingdono. Subject ens extremely pleased withoth withhis personality and the wcy hc undarotcod everything subject had to aaycn his part undsrstoodad to say. Subject toldtha fouroints of technical Interest that he had and thatbeen at tho Exposition and had been asked about tJuao items byand subject further aakod for osoiator.ee to visit certain types9Pe> carefully jotted donn all this data and explained thathert trip on Thursday, the following day, and vould return onor 5th of October, Upon his return he promised to call subject atthe number of which he gave hizi,0 hour3 and arrange asubject at which everything could be discussed further. He alsoa wall ae to arrange visits to plants. Subject 'wase^flaV8and added that when those recontaot arrangeundo,vaa not presont. G. asked oubjeot if subject consideredpsrfonnance in taking the introduction and setting up the contactsatisfactory, and subject issaadiatoly replied that KYKNE had done ajob end that in goneral vaTNNE deserved nothing but praise forsupport work in general. Ho further added that ho forgotion that ono reason for "IHHE'a being upset was that his wife toldall waa not going on cmoothly with the reconstruction job of WNKB,o . in LONLOK. Obviously thio ia another actual factorbo

ore nervous etata of mind then usual. At this point Soger da partedfain side of the atory.

C. enquired if subjoct hod in foot consul tad with CHERSDBYEV about tho olcarancoelephone approach, to TARASSQFP, and oubjoct replied that he could not sec tho Rosident that raoming although ho tteo.a* tho EKbascyours, because tho Rczidont waa ccatplotoly tied up with EUbaocy mattors involving his covor position aa Councillor, booausoisit from tho Premier of France to tho Exposition on ths following dayisit by General da GAULLE on the. day after thato This, of courso, involved trcroandous preparations on tha part of the Embassy and extraonfuoion. Therefore ho oould not oae tho Resident but spoke to his deputy

AZIANYEV about tho brochuree given to subjectINE. ASANZEV, being on engineer, coeunir.cd these brochures andavourable evaluation* Ho kept tlica at tho Residonturo for further analysis to decide nhat to send to GRU and what to send to the Co-anittce. Subject merely mentioned that ho vas busy caking contacts end couldlan after he had everything organised and lined up aad vould present it later vith hia proposal ae to how to proceed* Hs said everything caa fine at ths Embassy and tbat he had then gone tohibiticn thera the colhpeod ctaircasa caa being repaired for tho following day. Subject stated that he did not call TARASSOFF that day becauso ho had promised us to first cpoak about it with tha Resident. Prior to disouseing. TARASSOFF further, oubjoct confessed that thera were two reasons nhy he coras '

with euoh coagro, if any, praparaticno froa his end in UOSCOT concerning *

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contacts with French buoinecccon woo had visited JdOSGOT?. The first reason hs sivo was that ha had coapletolyiraatsd our capabilities for having such contaot3 at our fis-jsr tips in PARIS, Ko understood clearly vhy this vas not tha case nor/ and admitted his serious error in caking this assumption. Tho second roacca, which this interwoven with tlie first, nao that ho' in foot was not suro that ho would bo sont to PARIS at all at the tics vhan the Frenchas running ino he mada little effort to oatabHah tho groundwork for thla possible trip, not having muoh faith in his chance3 of ocaing hero. Only after tho French Expositionhis trip to PARIS formulated andoo lata to do nhat he should have dono earlier* Subject also

Tjphaataod that ho waa reluctant to sack Prench contacts InIntho intensive effort cads by the KGB to do Just that and ho did notrun into thoir intoroata. Subject further eaphaaieod that allRusoian namoa or "cnowa to be of Russian extraction are prionKG3 intoroot. In thia oonneotion subject waa not referring tothorn ha was unwitting at ths tine, but to another Prenohman with anoma about idiom ha had learned in tho notes on tho

interpreter which wore given to himATSNKO and which ho had shown to Ho waa afraid of contacting this can or any other Prenohman to whom ha hadenuous introduction, because of fear of running into the wrong person and ho aaaumsd that wa had tho capability in PARIS ofeliable, person. In thia respect subject candidly stated that he ranted to be honest with ua otherwise wa would have grounds to assure that he waa doing nothing to further hla own cause and was aa lasy aa. at continued by saying that ho now folt confidant something very tangible wouldrom hia contact with IflMav endhereirm basis with whloh to work to accomplish hiath respeot too eaid that that man was mast attractive with respect to hia position but requested additional checko nado on our part prior to bio contacting TARASSOFF beoaussubject-p.osplbly the KGBeee%ated,JARASSOFF In USOOS'. amd.hp_could run into s? rioUs,.trouble--becauirho name would be traced with tho KGB, thoy would see< that subject, as the sonite

Arqy officer, bad been drawn aaagnet to another Siito Russian and that would bo tho cndlbrhlo. Therefore, no matter how strong tho temptation had been and still waa to contact thia man, subject waa very glad that he had the opportunity on this day to oontult with us about ths desirability of hla making this contact and ha duulred our confirmation and approval that ho should do co. All agreed that in view of this most sorlouo consideration and in addition to tho obvious fact that tha KGB in XDSGOT! would have un extensive dossier On TARAS30FF at the very leant

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deliberation and tolling oubjoct thatould eonaider this, he roturnod thoiven to him tho day before by G, on TARASS0F7 and we furthor dcoided later that this oporatlcoal load vould bo discorded. ^Subject also atatoa that although CHEREDBIEV may approve tho contact, with no ocnaultation with tho looal KGB einoo GRU ond KGB areonoe'oompotltors for Western contacts, ondEREDSYEV knows nothing Of subject'a White Armyackground and noto tho local RGB, still if and whan tho tiro comes for furthor operational activity with TARASSOFF tho inevitable KGB noma trace at thoovol would undoubtedly bring out the very dangerous allegation referred to abovo./Subjeot of course did not mention anything about thla to AIJAiIYSV since ANANYEV is not in poaition of authority to make any decision and secondly it tould bo strictly none ofusiness. In addition subject musteport on this in IDSCOB, as an operational accomplishment of hla, irrespective of how tho matter io handled in PARI3 and there in 1DSC0T7 that inevitable KGB trace requoot could cause ocn aiderablo danger to subject. Subject even ouggeotod thathird possibility ho eontaet tho man without reporting to either tho PARIS Rozidcntura or to iDSOOW ond obtain material -from tlie aontaot alleging lt to com? from another source. Thiscompletely discarded and although oubjoct vna told wo would oonaidor thia individual furthor wo hod decided amongst ourselves to drop TARASSOFF completely end look for scmsono else ifub^cot^

pointed out that trie Sovlot Government had officially announced tho forthcoming isilitary loxgo-aoole maneouvroa, Subjeot particularly atroooed that the announcement stated that the oanoeuvrea were planned for the months of Qctober_ -rand.his fact to cuppleraentwn report as learned froa VARENTSOV ond others, that thos^^

possible extension, in subject's viewold adraiaslon on KHRUSHCHEV'S part that he will oontlnue to build up and develop his arced forces in theao manoouvroa to cover tho entire period after tho Party Congreos, tho signing

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holidaya to be ln_poaltlen to influence

' hia_politlcalith the maximum combat-readyourse ^fcheae conaoquencoa, namely tho purpoeo for having thia fordo available,mentionod in tho paper, eaid .

At thia point Janet entered, end wan warmly greeted by aubject* waa deaoribod to aubject aa the surprise of the evening and it waathia time beoaueo Janet had' to return to London on tho followinglengthy diaoussions concornlng aubjeot'a schedule for hia leavedays of ahioh ho would takeaysanatorium at KISLOVODSK1remainder he would epend working for ua in 1CSC0W, end after Janetfully her normal pattern of mcvementa on Jabndaya end Fridays toarea, the following schedule waa established to cover tha balance ofof October, tho month of November and tho month of Deoembor. arrancomonto would bo established in early December baaed on aubjoot'eon hie own plana and subject to our concurrence. Thewould begin on Fridayh October, which would be aat the Coandaaion store on the Arbat0 hours, For everywithh October end running through until the end ofsite'and timo would be considered oa tho basic mooting. Everytho Fridoya above and thus beginning with XSondaydbe conoids rod to be the alternate meeting for the proceedingplace would be the left band store cn the second floor of theand the time vould alao be0 hours* Only in theno meeting takea placeriday would Janet appear on the following Hoover,eeting took place on Monday oho would etillthe following baalo Friday mooting aite. The schedule for December wouldreversed in aoma respects as follows* Tbe baalo meeting would stillFridays and it would take place ont December, but the aitebo in tho park0 hours* Tho alternate meeting would etill befollowing every Friday0 houra at the store above the Praga. ono exception would be that Monday, Christmas Day, la omitted aa antime* Tho above is the oxaot and simple schedule to coverof

Subject mentioned that hla own ochodulo would be ae followoi He ;. old leave PARIS onh Ootober, he would need about five daysompleto all of hia officialnd Bub-ait thea to both tha GRO and the Coraittoo. Then he would roqueat hia leave to begin betweenhh Ootober and tha normal thirty-day leave ellowmne* would be increased to thirty-five doya to inoludo allowable travel time* Whether he took^ hia sixteen dayo root euro at the KISLOVODSK sanatorium during tho first half of thoay period or the second half of the period would depend on his Buocoao in obtaining hla putovka (booking) for tho first half. At any rate subject stated that ho would definitely meet Janet on the first ooheduiea' moating of Fridayh and giveo to with writtens to his leave time schedule and his into of return to relieve her of the burden of going to the meeting places unnecoaoarily during that time* it was pointed out that vith tho exception of tho sealed oaaaette packages containing undeveloped film Janot should examine any loose material to coo if it does notessage for her. Similarly Janet was warned by G. that in come distant phase of tho operation lt nay be possible, oven though not contemplated for this currant phase of scheduled moots, that subjeot cay include what appears tolank piece of folded paper. Thia paper

plan

d never bo discarded since it may contain oearet writing. Tho over-oil plan tas clearly understood by all concerned.

At firot thereieousaion aboutumber Of telephone lings by subjoot to Dignify thnt ho was going on leave on tho following day, but alnce he will already knov byh Ootober and will ao inform Janotote, th^concept ofePhona ringocarried ovor to another plan viiich involved tho moat urgont type of nnosago passing on tho part of'

subjeot undor conditions of^riaia *hlch would be included togetherignalling planeed-drop and this concept was discussed at length with oTtentative plan eotabllshed at tho end of the meeting after Janot'o departure, since it did not oonaorn hor actiona in any way*

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'with roepeot to Janet one Additional important consideration was

This waa to smoothly offeot an aotual official meeting between.and subjecteception either at an Embooey orJ

realdsnoe to which logically and officially both oould be invited guests. Subject reviewed all of tho official receptions at Babanaiea and private homes that he had been invited to on an official baeis by dates add places aa well aa persons oinoo hecmbor of tho Oceraittee. It 'eo happened that both were invited to the hcao of Hilary KINO, subject once and Janet nuDosrous time. It also appeared that fron their respective recollection of tha persons, proaont that they both had been thoro already without being introduced to each other at tho party at Hilary KING'o first residence onrospokt 1TXHA near the RIGA railroad station on one of the days' between tho 8thh At any rate for chance queries both aubject and Janet could conveniently use that place and dateegend for having oat each other aa an exoellent covor for an unexpected meeting and greeting in MOSCOW should any Question ever arise on the part of KGB or whensoever, in the meantime an actual meeting would bo arranged between tho twoeception to bo given byI0R, the Scientific Attache at tbe Brltlah Embassy. '. Subject interjootod here that when people have once met officially, subsequent oontaota are perfootly normal and approved. Aa an example he said thatGVT2HAKIood friend, an Italian, whoso name is UARJNOTTI. This man haa been living inor six months nowery fine room which he uses aa ah office, in the Hotel National, which GVTSHIANI haa arranged for hia. Tho man seems to bo of coasldorablo value to CVIffllANI and they are close friends and go out together to eat and drink, etc. and in addition the Italian always brings GVTJHIANI fine gifts. Tho Italian Often goes to LONDON, NET/ YORK and CASHINGTON. Subject waa involved in reconciling the mandatory . equest by IONOV the Chief of all hotela in MOSCOW to remove tho Italian from his room during tho time that the various delegates to tba Party Congress would bo in &DSCCV. Thia waa an order frca the Supreme Soviet, GVISHIAKI did not want the Italian removed, but it was eo arranged that theffice with all of hla parophanalla was looked up in the Itollan'a,room while ths Italian himself planned to go on leave to Italy during tho period of the Party Congress. This catiafied everyone. Subject used thia interesting

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relationship oa an eocanple of approved contact with foreigners byback to hie ovn oontoctn aubject stated that he bad first neta. rooeptlon at tha Hotel National dining room when tha tYNHB delegationin hOSCOW and lator ECHO invited him to hia homoeception onUira. The dato waa about theDecember end the wholethirteen persons from England were there, and from the Comittoe, inLEVIN, LOPATSNKO, POLYAKOV and SHVABTS were there and many othernuoaroue people from the British Embaaay. Subjectbove would be usedegend and an actual reception wheremoot would be planned for tho time after ho returns from histhoro wculd not bo sufficient time to do it earlier* Subject atatedhe had also met Dr. SENIOR tho Sclentifio Attache atut he had never met him at the Committee officesknows that SENIOR ootoea to tho Cccaaittae at leaat once every month, alnoe waa preferable, on tho baalo of personal eeourity, to meet at aDr. SSHTOR's house, inatoad of at JONG* a. Subjeot waa asked whetherbe normal for him to be invited by Dr. SENIOR, to which subjectit certainly would be logical and in foot BERDENIKOV, who knows Dr.personally, bad called him on subject's behalf when aubject waagot his visa qulokly to go to LONDON. Subjeot atreaaed that at thiav.ould be very doairablo for him to be invited to the British, FrenchEmbassies and to any receptiona held elsewhere by the English,Prench, to which foreigners ore normally invited. He also la concernedAmerican Embassy, although up to nowaaalve role. He badan American delogation at the Coszaittoe who came regarding mattersand licensing. Subjeot said that the chief woa FRIEDMAN add all the members ware also Jews. Subjeot met another American who wasCCV7 ourist and whose visa he had extended for him twice for ten days each tho American'8 request. Subject flew to PARIS in the same plane aa thia ' ri oan, but only bumped into him at LE BOURGST, The American's namoor Beoothing

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/2o/ Subject remarked that anyone tho has offioiol dealings with tho Ccevnitice can invite him with other membera of the Comrcdtteo toecaptions, to private homos of thoss Embassy officials and even to restaurants Tiiich often havo been used for receptions in case more room was required* '

<^T^ At this point Janot left since the aohodule for,the balance ubject was again reminded to submit his raotingJanuary and beyond in early December. In addition ha was reminded toto carefully document his future information reports with everyand

'?feo &OSCCAT signal sites wore then taken up. Subject was shown photographs of every site and thoy were oriented on tho map of MOSCOW, After lengthy discussion as to how and when these oould be used, subject selected in order-of preference Ko.hennd lost Non 2. Tho purpose of thoa to call the observer to the dead drop at once since this ccamunication systoin tas to be used only in tho case of extreme emergency,

After much discussion regarding tho toy to secure tho dead-drop procedure in terms of minimum time- that material would remain therein it was tentatively dacidedignal placed on.the adopted site during the night would mean that tho DLB could bo leaded0 on the following morning* The observer would unload it as quickly as possible. That eome evening subject wouldelephone call,ime to bo set, in the formignal of so many rings. This. would confirm that tha DLB had been oleared. Any ether signalling method indicating clearance of DLB such ascratch on the radiator or signalling again else vhere would require subjeot to reappear at the DLB site or the signalecond time, whioh ie undesirable. Thus at this meeting the concept was established and the precise mechanics will bo adopted prior toepartures

ho loft5 hoursh September and was dropped off afrom his hotel by Roger and J. without

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