Created: 6/5/1967

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<Ji 7oup to thoeriod, the Ouatamalan eolaMe,thoooaoletoly taken over by tho Comunte ts et this

Blaanll: hink It's folr to sey thirt it was. Mow, to b* cure,

this doesn't mannornnt that all of the bureaucracy, nil

of tho officials, certainly lt doesn't twenajority of

the all leery offlcors ha* suddenly beoo-so Coiiaunlsts by conviction,

ilre tho reverse. Busubt thnt

inced Connunlst, to tha extent T. would scy thnt

Castro is today,hore's no doubttso or throe of the key


arv! hi* *arothat ho hn* bra ught In, who were of tht si-oo persuasion. o Coc-nunlsts were oell on tholr way eo coi;tt3ll-*fttlns tholr hoi* on the

9.1 In any ovsnt, tho oonerolla* tha toy parts of tho buroauoraoy.

ulssoll: Thoy controllo'* tha lovera of power. In offoet, yas.

Hon rauchaloulnted risk waa thia, looking baok? eho chances of any ovort Interooislon finally

BUsalll roll, AllenIs fond of ouotlm; an Interview ho bad uith thoand ray reoollectton Is that Allen quotad tha eUdea: as less than own that wa sjoaV behink he said, better then ko paroont but lass than even. 'Ta's also fond of saying thnt the "resident aald, "If you*gotthat fnvoroblolllteryahead and givery, or wor'a to *hat offoct. hink Ifsk ay Ju'saant, aaan reaesbor It, before theOuld have ru otsd It less than oven, or oeyboven, but no hotter than oven.

llen Dulles say hev* bear. hogginsittle bit.

Blsaolli ittle bit, but not veryhink It's ralr

to Kay Chato rwko tha inovltnblo- thatmaasostblo oooplo cloae to tha 'uatenalen operationhava 'glvon It, before Itessor ohenco of buoc*ss than slallcr people wouldvon tho Bay ofno ratlin,

boforo lt ^


hat uara tha aajor factors illttstlns against success?

Blase111 "h, anroly that the robol force un-*er Carlos) Castillo Aroseso extrarwly fall and lll-trvl nod. My reooiloctlon Is that tholod land forcoInvaded 'luotarnnla woe losseople, an* thoro woro about four obaolete anal! aircraft In ajoarstloa ar uny glvn tins. 't asm four In tho air nt once, ienwsre probably four In repair on anyay. Theyo fly over Juntonoln ande* borabs, ond Intersperse those quite liberally with sooty ^ooa Cole bottles whloh aa do thooundere about ashlnlc. t bos this sort of operation. *hlsths mnson. ifft She .uaUmalan Aray, it loast on paper,ubstantial force, and atos -soil oroodt if not hotter ornnd. It Is, true thnt thi Arbenz roglcwable to oonteat oontrol of tho air, suon as It was, orast didn't.

Q: he othsrf tha question, what woreue* el feotors giving tho Castillo Araas forces and yur effort strength?

- 15

ilasoili -'ho victorybout, ln thnts1 no:-vo aont, ansa his nervewhan. hoftn. ?hore woMnk, two -vijorout, hlnle 'ho Boat 'eolnlvo nnaxtraordinarilyto anything, but thoro wore nlrornft ovor htlhoy sere droppinghatyou rooarabor tho cllaax of thlaT.btng offortrosa or eita-*olot or nurjltlonshatloh vossollnntle ooaot,li; explosion. Ithink lt kille* aore than threepooplo, military eoole, and no others* Tknowtho eotuol los- of tho BanttIocsIt was not

3utery paychologlonlly lnpr?salvoton of the potential powerr, ovon this orlmltlve air fores.

How, thohing thnt hnp->onod nna that th-.ro wnnlttls flRhtlng on thegpoun* nt

orway froa ^uatorcala City, whore tho toveelon er-no ln,unction shore on tho International Central Aairlcn

r'. fter thlarain nulled Into ounteraala Cityew bodies en*uabor of woun^e* Rovorriaant crooas. ews slit-ays felt, rayself, that this vtvl* ast'onaethoroeal fl^ht, thnt thla nasore oooor exerclao, thnt this was not going toaoo of sort of in


13th ror.turytntlwith tho two oroloa *rnon up Aa* tho atron.or onooncealedflold. T'volthiaajor lappet on "rbana1

(East, tharo la one other thing* and that tshie entire

tl-nsdiar.ip-od, ao haknow whatngtho front. Heonfuaod rumors going lieck,e In

any ouch situation,ffomnt rumors. It la raythnt

t tat whon hon tho ,'reotost uncorta'nty, andsure that thoro wooreoortsholaivision of troops aos coilng In, rn**ccroeports thst not nuohhaoponlng an* then su-^snly wounded begin to arrive. e'ilovo this ss ,uenoa of evontsory ooworful lapnot, (

lnkllyns thing ae all ofn*o4

ovorlook,dvance of tho event wo thoughthereetter thon an evon ohonco of success, If th'tf think we tondod to overlook olaply the aasslveneos of 'J3 power, viewed from 'rbenz' position, fitting around In Washington, we woro oil owaro of tho limitationse urs oforeupposedly uoevo&ed little mllltory operati-m. ahow difficult lt waso get too naro aircraft down there snd in aotlon, us'.ng tho ohannels nhrt wo had to uno tohot mnunway ond another one that was damaged, now how few,hst low quality people, Arana had roorultod. Pa knew how littleroAll of the things wsre vary vivid in our ays.

lt wpo easy for us to forgot thot /irbonz felt hlroelf up


OfiQlnat rho sight orJnlto* Vftos, nnd qulto no-.otbly th* lnptct on bin ofuclftc ovonta,vnts that I' ve*as that lt any ataply hnw porsuaded hia that' vicaost, nod Ifraonna prowd to bo !nau'flnt->nt, thon otlvrnno would bo unod, Thlahavo contributed to :ho co.lapso of his norvo. But lttho brooking of hln norvo thnt on?ed thla fight.

'-cs noing hia own shots at Chat tlTS"? -'h*rslustor of aonbohlni hln?

nisooll: Therwtwo or throo, but Iho was tho undisj* outed boss.

ia it your undo rat und ingho United Stotoaove intorvonod if thla offort hod fnllodY


31ssoil: For froa It, hink that woo anything but ssttlsd. Anything but.

ti.nlly th?re was) no -'eolslonf

Bissell! A'hora was nodeolslon, but ovon thet, froa ny retlonbo Inaocurato, boonuso thnt traolles that tho eltornntlvo.


own IT. Intervention, ha' olr-'n-'y bron ^tscusned, cwwl^are* Sod pior,ossible olterrmtlvo,hlnVot tha caaa. >ie policy $ul *anoe ao ho* wns that thireot to be direct 'ntervo.ntlon,

Xt Vou aontionad thstuna not gottlng ooarauntoatlons.bnctiuaa rebel aotionut

In part, yea. ^n* lnpart sonojsx Janttng that wo did.

In your taking enotbor look ot thoso factors,exproaaed soreo qualifications that sen* tobasso" on Just how auoh you really *ld find-out about what'8 rra there, onttnutng problem, not bo'ng able to got as thorough Tntolllgonoo os you noedod, either before or during auoh anration, or ovon Afterwordsoat-nortoning sonso"

hink wo hod pretty good Intelligence, but you see tho TJS n ^uaceTiala City re no! nod open throughout, ao thor wore really oontlnual oonvorsatlona with oso pa*fficially In the Arbana roglne. hink therefore that ws wore able, aa the operation orogreasod, to toko the pulseho other

protty well, My oolnrohink It's vory hrrd to toll what wont on In the* ono oroay ae two or three key pooplo, arv* nhn- wore the lonclsoQ thnt


lodo dooldoertain point Shot the*lloked.

Q: Do yiu racr.ll tho naass of tho other one or two linking persona?

il : on't. IM have ti *olooking uo to renaabor thoso, or find than.


Z.t hot kindoosurr- jrore you abas to take of publtopiouierhin 'ur.teaala, as fay as thegoal and tho Armas >.


-Issall: hink rjelly, vory little rellnbls treasure. v'o ware, of courat, in coatunlcat*on, olonrfdstlnely,lotsriuos Inteaaleere oppose* to 'rboni. At tho ntoolt ass protty dear thet he had nuaarloallyot of supportr.bor snd aoaa fmns the poesenta, not wryhink, caceuso the peasants in nost of those ooun*:rlftsary Inarticulate olaaant of tho population, with verypon*ont polltloel Involvoaant of their own. hink, thoroepeat that we vara aaareair nura^ar o* dissidents, but on't think thnt uo cere In any position to


thet auoh andf the population weo in aupport of Arb*>ns or oopoaed to hia.

CU <ors you ovonosition to determine what proportion of

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