From leary@accessone.com Mon Apr 8 14:45:23 1996 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: Michael Leary Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,misc.fitness.weights,misc.fitness.misc,alt.sport.weightlifting Subject: RFD: misc.fitness.weights.* reorganization Followup-To: news.groups Date: 8 Apr 1996 18:45:18 -0000 Organization: . Lines: 167 Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net Approved: newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net Message-ID: <828989105.223@uunet.uu.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Archive-Name: misc.fitness.weights-reorg Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:8505 news.groups:200210 misc.fitness.weights:38089 misc.fitness.misc:9290 alt.sport.weightlifting:5266 REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) unmoderated group misc.fitness.weights.bodybuilding unmoderated group misc.fitness.weights.supplements unmoderated group misc.fitness.weights.power+strength unmoderated group misc.fitness.weights.misc (renames misc.fitness.weights) Newsgroup line: misc.fitness.weights.bodybuilding Lifting for aesthetics. misc.fitness.weights.misc General-interest weightlifting. misc.fitness.weights.power+strength Lifting for power and strength. misc.fitness.weights.supplements Consuming for gains. This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for three additions to, and one renaming of, the world-wide unmoderated Usenet newsgroup hierarchy misc.fitness.weights. ***This is NOT a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time.*** Procedural details are below. *****ALL DISCUSSION OF THIS PROPOSAL SHOULD BE POSTED TO NEWS.GROUPS***** RATIONALE: all groups To make a home for powerlifting and other strength training / sports on Usenet. To separate bodybuilding from powerlifting, as the methods and goals of each are distinct and not suitable for mixing -- especially since the power+strength group is also to include other power and strength topics which are aligned more closely with powerlifting than bodybuilding. To separate discussions of training methods from supplement topics and from drug topics for the people who are not interested in one or the other. Misc.fitness.weights would be renamed to misc.fitness.weights.misc in accordance with group-advice policy, and would become a general interest weights group for non-specialized lifting, and the casual weights participant. This will ensure that general-fitness individuals will have a place to discuss basic and beginner weightlifting topics apart from discussions of bodybuilding, supplements, drugs, powerlifting which may have deterred the casual participant from posting to misc.fitness.weights in the past. Separating into a total of four groups will encourage more people to join in each type of discussion, because people will find what they want, and not what they don't want. The three more specialized groups will raise the level of discussion within them by focusing the subject matter and by minimizing the flaming of one faction by another. Misc.fitness.weights.misc will allow a haven for the casual weightlifter apart from the groups where more basic questions and concerns might not be as appropriate or welcome. CHARTER: misc.fitness.weights.bodybuilding The topic of this group would be bodybuilding, and all messages related to same would be welcome -- including topics related to equipment, exercise selection and form, reps, sets, routines, size, symmetry, dieting, cutting up, contests, professional level competitors and non-competing amateurs. Message topics that would not be not welcome include topics related to supplements, drugs (in deference to the many natural trainees who may be put off by illegal-drug discussions) and powerlifting, as these topics would have their own groups. Drug and supplementation topics may arise in this group, but they would be encouraged to move to misc.fitness.weights.supplements. Commercial advertising for products and services is strictly prohibited. Individuals, however, may occasionally post web addresses for informative sites, or their own classified ads for non-commercial products (e.g. used equip), but should keep this to a minimum. END CHARTER. CHARTER: misc.fitness.weights.supplements The main topic of this group would be supplements, and all messages related to same would be welcome -- including topics related to vitamin/mineral supplements, protein powders, carbohydrate drinks, meal replacements, chemical supplements (vanadyl, creatine, etc.) and drugs (deca, primo, etc.). Message topics that would not be welcome include topics related to bodybuilding and powerlifting techniques, routines, methods, and philosophies of training, as these topics would have their own groups -- *except* as they relate to altering the effects of the supplement in question. Threads which leave behind the discussion of the supplement in question would be encouraged to move to the appropriate group (weightlifting, bodybuilding, powerlifting, or weights). Commercial advertising for products and services is strictly prohibited. Individuals, however, may occasionally post web addresses for informative sites, or their own classified ads for non-commercial products (e.g. used equip), but should keep this to a minimum. END CHARTER. CHARTER: misc.fitness.weights.power+strength The main topic of this group would be powerlifting, and all messages related to same would be welcome -- including topics related to professional level contenders as well as amateur non-competitors, e.g. supplemental exercise selection, form, reps, sets, routines, equipment, judging, and organizations. *Also* welcome would be messages about other areas of power and strength sports, events, and training -- such as: highland heavy events, world's strongest man, "dinosaur" training, arm-wrestling, grip strength, etc. Message topics that would not be welcome include topics related to supplements / drugs (in deference to the many natural trainees who may be put off by illegal-drug discussions) and bodybuilding, as these topics would have their own groups. Drug and supplementation topics may arise in this group, but they would be encouraged to move to misc.fitness.weights.supplements. Commercial advertising for products and services is strictly prohibited. Individuals, however, may occasionally post web addresses for informative sites, or their own classified ads for non-commercial products (e.g. used equip), but should keep this to a minimum. END CHARTER. CHARTER: misc.fitness.weights.misc The main topic of this group would be general-interest weightlifting and all related messages are welcome -- including topics relating to beginning weightlifting for the first time or since a long layoff, basic nutrition, the Zone diet, protein requirements for athletes, caloric content of food, what proportion of protein, carbs, fats should be in a person's diet, how to eat for particular goals, related recipes, designing a general weightlifting routine, and strains, pains, and injuries related to general-interest weightlifting. Message topics that would not be welcome include supplements / drugs (e.g. vitamin/mineral supplements, protein powders, ephedrine, clenbuterol), bodybuilding, and powerlifting as these topics would have their own groups. Specialized lifting topics (e.g. bigger chest, caber-tossing technique, creatine, etc.) should remain in their appropriate group (bodybuilding, power+strength, supplements, respectively). Commercial advertising for products and services is strictly prohibited. Individuals, however, may occasionally post web addresses for informative sites, or their own classified ads for non-commercial products (e.g. used equip), but should keep this to a minimum. END CHARTER. PROCEDURE: This is a Request For Discussion, NOT a call for votes. In this phase of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For Votes (CFV) may be posted by a neutral vote taker *IF* the discussion warrants it. PLEASE do not attempt to vote until this happens. *****All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.***** This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any questions about the process. DISTRIBUTION: This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups news.groups misc.fitness.weights misc.fitness.misc alt.sport.weightlifting Proponent: Michael Leary Mentors: Jonathan Grobe Ilana Stern From jan@bagend.atl.ga.us Fri May 24 13:24:26 1996 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: Jan Isley Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.sport.weightlifting,misc.fitness.misc,misc.fitness.weights Subject: CFV: misc.fitness.weights.{bodybuilding,supplements,power+strength,misc} Followup-To: poster Date: 24 May 1996 17:24:41 -0000 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 232 Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net Approved: newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net Expires: 15 Jun 1996 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <832958679.9013@uunet.uu.net> Reply-To: usenet-votes@mathcs.emory.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Archive-Name: misc.fitness.weights-reorg Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:8701 news.groups:207795 alt.sport.weightlifting:5857 misc.fitness.misc:10817 misc.fitness.weights:46119 FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2) unmoderated group misc.fitness.weights.bodybuilding unmoderated group misc.fitness.weights.supplements unmoderated group misc.fitness.weights.power+strength unmoderated group misc.fitness.weights.misc (renames misc.fitness.weights) Newsgroups line: misc.fitness.weights.bodybuilding Lifting for aesthetics. misc.fitness.weights.misc General-interest weightlifting. misc.fitness.weights.power+strength Lifting for power and strength. misc.fitness.weights.supplements Consuming for gains. Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 14 Jun 1996. This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent. Proponent: Michael Leary Mentor: Jonathan Grobe Mentor: Ilana Stern Votetaker: Jan Isley RATIONALE: all groups Separating into a total of four groups will encourage more people to join in each type of discussion, because people will find what they want, and not what they don't want. The three more specialized groups will raise the level of discussion within each of them by focusing the subject matter and by minimizing the flaming of one faction by another. Also, the volume of m.f.w will be broken down into more manageable chunks. RATIONALE: misc.fitness.weights.bodybuilding To provide a forum for in-depth discussion of bodybuilding training techniques, routines, philosophies, equipment, motivation, etc. A specialized bodybuilding group will focus the discussions -- resulting in greater depth and less flaming. In turn, participants will obtain greater benefit (depth of information) at lower cost (wading through flames and topics of no interest). RATIONALE: misc.fitness.weights.supplements Not everyone is interested in supplements or drugs. Separating the discussions of such will allow everyone to more easily find the topics they are interested in and avoid the topics they are not interested in. In addition, many people are put off by the volume of drug discussion and flaming which takes place on m.f.w, and so don't participate -- effectively excluding many people who would otherwise enrich the weights hierarchy. Kill-files are a inadequate solution to the need which this groups addresses. Someone who is *sometimes* interested in reading about supplements or drugs won't have to edit and re-edit a kill-file in order to read about them if this group passes. It is far easier to skip or not skip a subscribed newsgroup. In addition, not everyone who flames is void of something intelligent, valuable or informative to say -- kill-files ignore this fact. Passing this group will raise the level of discussion and help lower the number of flames. RATIONALE: misc.fitness.weights.power+strength To make a home for powerlifting and other strength training / sports on Usenet. Currently there is no powerlifting group on Usenet, and no place for other strength and power related training / sports. Also, to separate bodybuilding from powerlifting, as the methods and goals of each are distinct and not suitable for mixing -- especially since the power+strength group is also to include other power and strength topics which are aligned more closely with powerlifting than body- building. Lumping together powerlifting and bodybuilding often results in powerlifting *vs* bodybuilding, which is usually just a waste of time, energy and bandwidth. A vote for this group is a vote for diversity and depth. RATIONALE: misc.fitness.weights.misc Misc.fitness.weights would be renamed to misc.fitness.weights.misc in accordance with group-advice guidelines, and would become a general interest weights group for non-specialized lifting, and the casual weights participant. This will ensure that general-fitness individuals will have a place to discuss basic and beginner weightlifting topics. Renaming m.f.w will help make any other "yes" votes "stick" -- by "physically" acknowledging that the new group is *not* the same as the old group. CHARTER: misc.fitness.weights.bodybuilding The topic of this group would be bodybuilding, and all messages related to same would be welcome -- including topics related to equipment, exercise selection and form, reps, sets, routines, size, symmetry, dieting, cutting up, contests, professional level competitors and non-competing amateurs. Message topics that would not be welcome include topics related to powerlifting. Commercial advertising for products and services is strictly prohibited. Individuals, however, may occasionally post web addresses for informative sites, or their own classified ads for non-commercial products (e.g. used equip), but should keep this to a minimum. END CHARTER. CHARTER: misc.fitness.weights.supplements The main topic of this group would be supplements, and all messages related to same would be welcome -- including topics related to vitamin/mineral supplements, protein powders, carbohydrate drinks, meal replacements, chemical supplements (vanadyl, creatine, etc.) and drugs (deca, primo, etc.). Message topics that would not be welcome include topics related to bodybuilding and powerlifting techniques, routines, methods, and philosophies of training, *except* as they relate to altering the effects of the supplement in question. Threads which leave behind the discussion of the supplement in question would be encouraged to move to a more appropriate group. Commercial advertising for products and services is strictly prohibited. Individuals, however, may occasionally post web addresses for informative sites, or their own classified ads for non-commercial products (e.g. used equip), but should keep this to a minimum. END CHARTER. CHARTER: misc.fitness.weights.power+strength The main topic of this group would be powerlifting, and all messages related to same would be welcome -- including topics related to professional level contenders as well as amateur non-competitors, e.g. supplemental exercise selection, form, reps, sets, routines, equipment, judging, and organizations. *Also* welcome would be messages about other areas of power and strength sports, events, and training -- such as: highland heavy events, world's strongest man, "dinosaur" training, arm-wrestling, grip strength, etc. Message topics that would not be welcome include topics related to bodybuilding. These topics would be encouraged to move to a more appropriate group. Commercial advertising for products and services is strictly prohibited. Individuals, however, may occasionally post web addresses for informative sites, or their own classified ads for non-commercial products (e.g. used equip), but should keep this to a minimum. END CHARTER. CHARTER: misc.fitness.weights.misc The main topic of this group would be general-interest weightlifting and all related messages are welcome -- including topics relating to beginning weightlifting for the first time or since a long layoff, basic nutrition, the Zone diet, protein requirements for athletes, caloric content of food, what proportion of protein, carbs, fats should be in a person's diet, how to eat for particular goals, related recipes, designing a general weightlifting routine, and strains, pains, and injuries related to general-interest weightlifting. Also welcome are messages on specialized topics for which there is no more appropriate group. Message topics that would not be welcome include specialized topics for which there is a more appropriate group. Commercial advertising for products and services is strictly prohibited. Individuals, however, may occasionally post web addresses for informative sites, or their own classified ads for non-commercial products (e.g. used equip), but should keep this to a minimum. END CHARTER. HOW TO VOTE: Vote counting is automated. Follow the directions! You should send E-MAIL (posts to a newsgroup are invalid) to: usenet-votes@mathcs.emory.edu Please do not assume that just replying to this message will work. Check the address before you mail your vote. Use the ballot form and indicate your YES or NO vote on each group that you wish to vote on. Please, mail only the ballot form. Delete everything above and below the "-=-=-=-" lines. Names are required. Please indicate your name on the line provided... your name, not your e-mail address. (example voter name) Voter Name: John Smith (example yes vote) [ yes ] rec.foo (example no vote) [ no ] rec.foo -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines -=-=-=-=-=- misc.fitness.weights reorg Ballot (Don't remove this marker) Voter Name: Ballots submitted without a real name may be voided later. [Your Vote] Group ----------------------------------------------------------------- [ ] CREATE misc.fitness.weights.bodybuilding [ ] CREATE misc.fitness.weights.supplements [ ] CREATE misc.fitness.weights.power+strength [ ] RENAME misc.fitness.weights to misc.fitness.weights.misc -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines -=-=-=-=-=- You may also vote ABSTAIN or CANCEL but these are not counted as valid votes for the total count. IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: Standard Guidelines for voting apply. One person, one vote. Votes must be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker. Anonymous, forwarded or proxy votes are not valid. Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI forms are considered to be anonymous votes. Vote counting is automated. Failure to follow these directions may mean that your vote does not get counted. If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the votetaker about the problem. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly. Duplicate votes are resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote. Addresses and votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results post. The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest of persons who would read a proposed newsgroup. Soliciting votes from disinterested parties defeats this purpose. Please do not distribute this CFV. If you must, direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups. Distributing pre-marked or otherwise edited copies of this CFV is generally considered to be vote fraud. When in doubt, please ask the votetaker. DISTRIBUTION: A notice about this CFV will be posted to misc.fitness.aerobic. -- Jan Isley | Running UseVote 3. votes to: | Powered by FreeBSD From jan@bagend.atl.ga.us Sun Jun 2 21:44:47 1996 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: Jan Isley Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.sport.weightlifting,misc.fitness.misc,misc.fitness.weights Subject: 2nd CFV: misc.fitness.weights.{bodybuilding,supplements,power+strength,misc} Supersedes: <832958679.9013@uunet.uu.net> Followup-To: poster Date: 3 Jun 1996 01:44:28 -0000 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 232 Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net Approved: newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net Expires: 15 Jun 1996 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <833766171.25669@uunet.uu.net> References: <832958679.9013@uunet.uu.net> Reply-To: usenet-votes@mathcs.emory.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Archive-Name: misc.fitness.weights-reorg Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:8773 news.groups:209334 alt.sport.weightlifting:5978 misc.fitness.misc:11160 misc.fitness.weights:47667 LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2) unmoderated group misc.fitness.weights.bodybuilding unmoderated group misc.fitness.weights.supplements unmoderated group misc.fitness.weights.power+strength unmoderated group misc.fitness.weights.misc (renames misc.fitness.weights) Newsgroups line: misc.fitness.weights.bodybuilding Lifting for aesthetics. misc.fitness.weights.misc General-interest weightlifting. misc.fitness.weights.power+strength Lifting for power and strength. misc.fitness.weights.supplements Consuming for gains. Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 14 Jun 1996. This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent. Proponent: Michael Leary Mentor: Jonathan Grobe Mentor: Ilana Stern Votetaker: Jan Isley RATIONALE: all groups Separating into a total of four groups will encourage more people to join in each type of discussion, because people will find what they want, and not what they don't want. The three more specialized groups will raise the level of discussion within each of them by focusing the subject matter and by minimizing the flaming of one faction by another. Also, the volume of m.f.w will be broken down into more manageable chunks. RATIONALE: misc.fitness.weights.bodybuilding To provide a forum for in-depth discussion of bodybuilding training techniques, routines, philosophies, equipment, motivation, etc. A specialized bodybuilding group will focus the discussions -- resulting in greater depth and less flaming. In turn, participants will obtain greater benefit (depth of information) at lower cost (wading through flames and topics of no interest). RATIONALE: misc.fitness.weights.supplements Not everyone is interested in supplements or drugs. Separating the discussions of such will allow everyone to more easily find the topics they are interested in and avoid the topics they are not interested in. In addition, many people are put off by the volume of drug discussion and flaming which takes place on m.f.w, and so don't participate -- effectively excluding many people who would otherwise enrich the weights hierarchy. Kill-files are a inadequate solution to the need which this groups addresses. Someone who is *sometimes* interested in reading about supplements or drugs won't have to edit and re-edit a kill-file in order to read about them if this group passes. It is far easier to skip or not skip a subscribed newsgroup. In addition, not everyone who flames is void of something intelligent, valuable or informative to say -- kill-files ignore this fact. Passing this group will raise the level of discussion and help lower the number of flames. RATIONALE: misc.fitness.weights.power+strength To make a home for powerlifting and other strength training / sports on Usenet. Currently there is no powerlifting group on Usenet, and no place for other strength and power related training / sports. Also, to separate bodybuilding from powerlifting, as the methods and goals of each are distinct and not suitable for mixing -- especially since the power+strength group is also to include other power and strength topics which are aligned more closely with powerlifting than body- building. Lumping together powerlifting and bodybuilding often results in powerlifting *vs* bodybuilding, which is usually just a waste of time, energy and bandwidth. A vote for this group is a vote for diversity and depth. RATIONALE: misc.fitness.weights.misc Misc.fitness.weights would be renamed to misc.fitness.weights.misc in accordance with group-advice guidelines, and would become a general interest weights group for non-specialized lifting, and the casual weights participant. This will ensure that general-fitness individuals will have a place to discuss basic and beginner weightlifting topics. Renaming m.f.w will help make any other "yes" votes "stick" -- by "physically" acknowledging that the new group is *not* the same as the old group. CHARTER: misc.fitness.weights.bodybuilding The topic of this group would be bodybuilding, and all messages related to same would be welcome -- including topics related to equipment, exercise selection and form, reps, sets, routines, size, symmetry, dieting, cutting up, contests, professional level competitors and non-competing amateurs. Message topics that would not be welcome include topics related to powerlifting. Commercial advertising for products and services is strictly prohibited. Individuals, however, may occasionally post web addresses for informative sites, or their own classified ads for non-commercial products (e.g. used equip), but should keep this to a minimum. END CHARTER. CHARTER: misc.fitness.weights.supplements The main topic of this group would be supplements, and all messages related to same would be welcome -- including topics related to vitamin/mineral supplements, protein powders, carbohydrate drinks, meal replacements, chemical supplements (vanadyl, creatine, etc.) and drugs (deca, primo, etc.). Message topics that would not be welcome include topics related to bodybuilding and powerlifting techniques, routines, methods, and philosophies of training, *except* as they relate to altering the effects of the supplement in question. Threads which leave behind the discussion of the supplement in question would be encouraged to move to a more appropriate group. Commercial advertising for products and services is strictly prohibited. Individuals, however, may occasionally post web addresses for informative sites, or their own classified ads for non-commercial products (e.g. used equip), but should keep this to a minimum. END CHARTER. CHARTER: misc.fitness.weights.power+strength The main topic of this group would be powerlifting, and all messages related to same would be welcome -- including topics related to professional level contenders as well as amateur non-competitors, e.g. supplemental exercise selection, form, reps, sets, routines, equipment, judging, and organizations. *Also* welcome would be messages about other areas of power and strength sports, events, and training -- such as: highland heavy events, world's strongest man, "dinosaur" training, arm-wrestling, grip strength, etc. Message topics that would not be welcome include topics related to bodybuilding. These topics would be encouraged to move to a more appropriate group. Commercial advertising for products and services is strictly prohibited. Individuals, however, may occasionally post web addresses for informative sites, or their own classified ads for non-commercial products (e.g. used equip), but should keep this to a minimum. END CHARTER. CHARTER: misc.fitness.weights.misc The main topic of this group would be general-interest weightlifting and all related messages are welcome -- including topics relating to beginning weightlifting for the first time or since a long layoff, basic nutrition, the Zone diet, protein requirements for athletes, caloric content of food, what proportion of protein, carbs, fats should be in a person's diet, how to eat for particular goals, related recipes, designing a general weightlifting routine, and strains, pains, and injuries related to general-interest weightlifting. Also welcome are messages on specialized topics for which there is no more appropriate group. Message topics that would not be welcome include specialized topics for which there is a more appropriate group. Commercial advertising for products and services is strictly prohibited. Individuals, however, may occasionally post web addresses for informative sites, or their own classified ads for non-commercial products (e.g. used equip), but should keep this to a minimum. END CHARTER. HOW TO VOTE: Vote counting is automated. Follow the directions! You should send E-MAIL (posts to a newsgroup are invalid) to: usenet-votes@mathcs.emory.edu Please do not assume that just replying to this message will work. Check the address before you mail your vote. Use the ballot form and indicate your YES or NO vote on each group that you wish to vote on. Please, mail only the ballot form. Delete everything above and below the "-=-=-=-" lines. Names are required. Please indicate your name on the line provided... your name, not your e-mail address. (example voter name) Voter Name: John Smith (example yes vote) [ yes ] rec.foo (example no vote) [ no ] rec.foo -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines -=-=-=-=-=- misc.fitness.weights reorg Ballot (Don't remove this marker) Voter Name: Ballots submitted without a real name may be voided later. [Your Vote] Group ----------------------------------------------------------------- [ ] CREATE misc.fitness.weights.bodybuilding [ ] CREATE misc.fitness.weights.supplements [ ] CREATE misc.fitness.weights.power+strength [ ] RENAME misc.fitness.weights to misc.fitness.weights.misc -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines -=-=-=-=-=- You may also vote ABSTAIN or CANCEL but these are not counted as valid votes for the total count. IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: Standard Guidelines for voting apply. One person, one vote. Votes must be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker. Anonymous, forwarded or proxy votes are not valid. Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI forms are considered to be anonymous votes. Vote counting is automated. Failure to follow these directions may mean that your vote does not get counted. If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the votetaker about the problem. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly. Duplicate votes are resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote. Addresses and votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results post. The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest of persons who would read a proposed newsgroup. Soliciting votes from disinterested parties defeats this purpose. Please do not distribute this CFV. If you must, direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups. Distributing pre-marked or otherwise edited copies of this CFV is generally considered to be vote fraud. When in doubt, please ask the votetaker. DISTRIBUTION: A notice about this CFV will be posted to misc.fitness.aerobic. -- Jan Isley | Running UseVote 3. votes to: | Powered by FreeBSD From jan@bagend.atl.ga.us Mon Jun 17 15:33:47 1996 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: Jan Isley Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.sport.weightlifting,misc.fitness.misc,misc.fitness.weights Subject: RESULT: misc.fitness.weights.{bodybuilding,supplements,power+strength,misc} fails Supersedes: <833766171.25669@uunet.uu.net> Followup-To: news.groups Date: 17 Jun 1996 15:34:21 -0400 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 448 Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net Approved: newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net Message-ID: <835040057.15352@uunet.uu.net> References: <832958679.9013@uunet.uu.net> <833766171.25669@uunet.uu.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Archive-Name: misc.fitness.weights-reorg Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:8841 news.groups:212153 alt.sport.weightlifting:6131 misc.fitness.misc:11631 misc.fitness.weights:49881 RESULT unmoderated group misc.fitness.weights.bodybuilding fails 101:119 unmoderated group misc.fitness.weights.supplements fails 99:123 unmoderated group misc.fitness.weights.power+strength fails 117:108 unmoderated group misc.fitness.weights.misc (renames misc.fitness.weights) fails 82:139 misc.fitness.weights.bodybuilding results - 233 valid votes Yes No | 2/3 >100 | Pass | Group ---- ---- | --- ---- | ---- | ------------------------------------------- 101 119 | No No | No | misc.fitness.weights.bodybuilding 99 123 | No No | No | misc.fitness.weights.supplements 117 108 | No No | No | misc.fitness.weights.power+strength 82 139 | No No | No | misc.fitness.weights.misc 8 invalid votes A five day discussion period follows this announcement. Unless serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the groups may not be voted on again for six months. Newsgroups line: misc.fitness.weights.bodybuilding Lifting for aesthetics. misc.fitness.weights.misc General-interest weightlifting. misc.fitness.weights.power+strength Lifting for power and strength. misc.fitness.weights.supplements Consuming for gains. Votes closed on 23:59:59 UTC, 14 Jun 1996. This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent. Proponent: Michael Leary Mentor: Jonathan Grobe Mentor: Ilana Stern Votetaker: Jan Isley RATIONALE: all groups Separating into a total of four groups will encourage more people to join in each type of discussion, because people will find what they want, and not what they don't want. The three more specialized groups will raise the level of discussion within each of them by focusing the subject matter and by minimizing the flaming of one faction by another. Also, the volume of m.f.w will be broken down into more manageable chunks. RATIONALE: misc.fitness.weights.bodybuilding To provide a forum for in-depth discussion of bodybuilding training techniques, routines, philosophies, equipment, motivation, etc. A specialized bodybuilding group will focus the discussions -- resulting in greater depth and less flaming. In turn, participants will obtain greater benefit (depth of information) at lower cost (wading through flames and topics of no interest). RATIONALE: misc.fitness.weights.supplements Not everyone is interested in supplements or drugs. Separating the discussions of such will allow everyone to more easily find the topics they are interested in and avoid the topics they are not interested in. In addition, many people are put off by the volume of drug discussion and flaming which takes place on m.f.w, and so don't participate -- effectively excluding many people who would otherwise enrich the weights hierarchy. Kill-files are a inadequate solution to the need which this groups addresses. Someone who is *sometimes* interested in reading about supplements or drugs won't have to edit and re-edit a kill-file in order to read about them if this group passes. It is far easier to skip or not skip a subscribed newsgroup. In addition, not everyone who flames is void of something intelligent, valuable or informative to say -- kill-files ignore this fact. Passing this group will raise the level of discussion and help lower the number of flames. RATIONALE: misc.fitness.weights.power+strength To make a home for powerlifting and other strength training / sports on Usenet. Currently there is no powerlifting group on Usenet, and no place for other strength and power related training / sports. Also, to separate bodybuilding from powerlifting, as the methods and goals of each are distinct and not suitable for mixing -- especially since the power+strength group is also to include other power and strength topics which are aligned more closely with powerlifting than body- building. Lumping together powerlifting and bodybuilding often results in powerlifting *vs* bodybuilding, which is usually just a waste of time, energy and bandwidth. A vote for this group is a vote for diversity and depth. RATIONALE: misc.fitness.weights.misc Misc.fitness.weights would be renamed to misc.fitness.weights.misc in accordance with group-advice guidelines, and would become a general interest weights group for non-specialized lifting, and the casual weights participant. This will ensure that general-fitness individuals will have a place to discuss basic and beginner weightlifting topics. Renaming m.f.w will help make any other "yes" votes "stick" -- by "physically" acknowledging that the new group is *not* the same as the old group. CHARTER: misc.fitness.weights.bodybuilding The topic of this group would be bodybuilding, and all messages related to same would be welcome -- including topics related to equipment, exercise selection and form, reps, sets, routines, size, symmetry, dieting, cutting up, contests, professional level competitors and non-competing amateurs. Message topics that would not be welcome include topics related to powerlifting. Commercial advertising for products and services is strictly prohibited. Individuals, however, may occasionally post web addresses for informative sites, or their own classified ads for non-commercial products (e.g. used equip), but should keep this to a minimum. END CHARTER. CHARTER: misc.fitness.weights.supplements The main topic of this group would be supplements, and all messages related to same would be welcome -- including topics related to vitamin/mineral supplements, protein powders, carbohydrate drinks, meal replacements, chemical supplements (vanadyl, creatine, etc.) and drugs (deca, primo, etc.). Message topics that would not be welcome include topics related to bodybuilding and powerlifting techniques, routines, methods, and philosophies of training, *except* as they relate to altering the effects of the supplement in question. Threads which leave behind the discussion of the supplement in question would be encouraged to move to a more appropriate group. Commercial advertising for products and services is strictly prohibited. Individuals, however, may occasionally post web addresses for informative sites, or their own classified ads for non-commercial products (e.g. used equip), but should keep this to a minimum. END CHARTER. CHARTER: misc.fitness.weights.power+strength The main topic of this group would be powerlifting, and all messages related to same would be welcome -- including topics related to professional level contenders as well as amateur non-competitors, e.g. supplemental exercise selection, form, reps, sets, routines, equipment, judging, and organizations. *Also* welcome would be messages about other areas of power and strength sports, events, and training -- such as: highland heavy events, world's strongest man, "dinosaur" training, arm-wrestling, grip strength, etc. Message topics that would not be welcome include topics related to bodybuilding. These topics would be encouraged to move to a more appropriate group. Commercial advertising for products and services is strictly prohibited. Individuals, however, may occasionally post web addresses for informative sites, or their own classified ads for non-commercial products (e.g. used equip), but should keep this to a minimum. END CHARTER. CHARTER: misc.fitness.weights.misc The main topic of this group would be general-interest weightlifting and all related messages are welcome -- including topics relating to beginning weightlifting for the first time or since a long layoff, basic nutrition, the Zone diet, protein requirements for athletes, caloric content of food, what proportion of protein, carbs, fats should be in a person's diet, how to eat for particular goals, related recipes, designing a general weightlifting routine, and strains, pains, and injuries related to general-interest weightlifting. Also welcome are messages on specialized topics for which there is no more appropriate group. Message topics that would not be welcome include specialized topics for which there is a more appropriate group. Commercial advertising for products and services is strictly prohibited. Individuals, however, may occasionally post web addresses for informative sites, or their own classified ads for non-commercial products (e.g. used equip), but should keep this to a minimum. END CHARTER. UseVote 3.0 Vote Acknowledge - (c) 1993,94 Ron Dippold Don't forget to 'uvdup' to get rid of duplicates first! misc.fitness.weights.bodybuilding Final Voter list misc.fitness.weights.misc ------+ misc.fitness.weights.power+strength -----+| misc.fitness.weights.supplements ----+|| misc.fitness.weights.bodybuilding ---+||| |||| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- koepf@iue.tuwien.ac.at Christian Koepf YYYY Stephan.Dreiseitl@risc.uni-linz.ac.at Stephan Dreiseitl NNNN rel@lipo.co.at Roland E. Lipovits NNNN rleslie@sgit.iaea.or.at Russell LESLIE NNNN stuart@banana.psd.com.au Stuart Park YYYY dmanuel@camtech.net.au Duane Manuel NYNN jam@netspace.net.au James Mitchell NNNN jmac@daemon.apana.org.au John McKenzie NNNN wilsonw@mgate.just.gov.ab.ca WAYNE WILSON YYY- juani@intergate.bc.ca Juan Parra YYYY das@vcn.bc.ca Darcy Semeniuk YYYY greg@sce.carleton.ca Greg Franks YYYY rmann@escape.ca Bob Mann NNNN g9426181@mcmail.CIS.McMaster.CA Craig Burley NNNN garry@mda.ca Garry Holmen NNYN wareham@ee.queensu.ca Paul Wareham YYYY diego@cs.ualberta.ca Diego Novillo YYYY edmonds@cs.ubc.ca Brian Edmonds ---Y peterfar@unixg.ubc.ca Peter Farkas NNNN jmcgarry@uoguelph.ca James McGarry YYYY cs932089@red.ariel.cs.yorku.ca Anthony Searle NNNN kocsis@org.chem.ethz.ch Kocsis Tam=E1s NNNN yaronp@ecitele.cm Pdut Yaron YYYY bulrich@abrasivewaterjet.com Robert Ulrich YYYY leary@accessone.com Michael Leary NNYN sgold@accessone.com Stuart Goldsmith YYYY oaktree@aimnet.com Jennifer Robles YYYY hohan@allware.com ANDREW M. HOH NNNN "Ken NQC"@AOL.COM Ken Songer NNNN ADFIT@aol.com Mark Pittroff NNNN Boomermag1@aol.com John Koenig NNNN IronMan15@aol.com Rob Steveson NNNN JoeRit@aol.com Joe Ritter NNNN MDAV1228@aol.com MATT DAVIS NNYN MuayThai66@aol.com Tim Biakabatuka NNNN Nightridge@aol.com William T Berry NNNN Wayne6969@aol.com Wayne Holmes YYYY rtw@servo.ho.att.com R. T. Wurth ---N mmyers@intgp1.att.com Mark Myers NNNN wjelgo@azstarnet.com Jim Fogle NNNN chucko@best.com Chuck Fry YYYY stainles@bga.com Dwight Brown NNNN jas0570@vsa000.ks.boeing.com J.A. Schiffel YYYY twilbur@plainfield.bypass.com Tim Wilbur YYYY jweyand@user1.channel1.com Johnny Weyand YYYY mlarsen@cisco.com Michael Larsen NNNN 71044.2620@CompuServe.COM John D Gilham NNNN barant@cts.com Thomas M. Baransky NNNN booda@datasync.com Martin H. Booda NNNN THEENFORCER@delphi.com John M. Williams NNNN adennie@ftp.com Andy Dennie YYYY Jimrtex@gnn.com Jim Riley ---N rontnt@goodnet.com Ronald A. Rind YYY- andyl@harlequin.com Andy Latto YYYN dthedens@hpbs2024.boi.hp.com David Thedens YYYY MARK_EWERS@HP-USA-om22.om.hp.com Mark Ewers YYYN stanton@ide.com Bill Stanton NNNN krasch@idirect.com Jeff Kraschinski YYYY greg@intellinet.com Greg Eanes YYYY paxil@interlog.com Trevor Tymchuk YYYY tom.hummel@adic.ipu.com Aardvark NNNN escharff@j51.com Eric Scharff NNNN rayb@lanminds.com Ray Baxter YYYN vqjrk@nosrv1.lle.com John R. Kirst YYYN jwales@mcs.com Jimmy Wales YYYY ibbotson@cig.mot.com Craig Ibbotson YYYY mfw@musictrax.com Marc Wielage YYYY olav@viking.mv.com Olav Nieuwejaar NNNN paulf@sanpm.sandiegoca.ncr.com Paul Fidler Jr. NNNN busbee@ix.netcom.com John Busbee NNNN dhickox@ix.netcom.com Dan Hickox NNNN imprint@ix.netcom.com Erica Hart YYYY lindber1@ix.netcom.com Matt Lindberg NNYN mist1@ix.netcom.com Ian Stevanovich NNNN rschuh@ix.netcom.com Robert Schuh NNN- sjf_@ix.netcom.com Scott James Forrester YNYN tgriff@ix.netcom.com Tom Griffin YYYY afrancke@netcom.com Andy Francke NNNN fogarty@netcom.com Tim Fogarty NNNN steen@netcom.com Charles H. Steen NNNN armstcpu@oanet.com Mike Armstrong YYYY jane@badco.ods.com Jane Pilsworth NNNN rossix!davidmo@openlink.one-o.com David Moore NNNN decesare@ontos.com Glenn DeCesare NNNN dc@panix.com Minister of Truth YYYY stevet@physio-control.com Steve Thomas YYYY mitchellherman@usa.pipeline.com MITCHELL HERMAN YYYY deadlift@pipeline.com Tom Goodwin NNNN jaybird@pixi.com jay scoppetto NNNN nathan@planmember.com Nathan Player NNYN John_David_Galt@cup.portal.com John David Galt ---N kim@shell.portal.com Kim DeVaughn YYYN KALA04A@prodigy.com Harold Cox NNN- cat@va.pubnix.com Cat NNNN randy.schrickel@raba.com Randy Schrickel YYYY tfarish@roadrunner.com Thomas J. Farish YNYN bapiche@cca.rockwell.com Bill Piche NNNN woo@seagull.rtd.com Jane Woo YNYY tkennedy@seafloor.com Thomas R Kennedy YYYY parnold@soltec.com Patrick Arnold NNNN epbrown@suba.com E P Brown NNNN Pieter.Ganzer@tek.com Pieter Ganzer NNYN dputzolu@teleport.com David M. Putzolu YYYY max@texsys.com Max Heffler YYYY greywolf@Traveller.COM Larry Mears YYYY davetm@ultima.u-net.com Dave Tudor YYYY henrywalbesser@unn.unisys.com Henry Walbesser NNNN CRISAN.G.S-@smtpgty.bwi.wec.com george crisan NNNN hupfeld@freudenstadt.netsurf.de Jan Hupfeld YYYN Thilo.Pfennig@kiel.netsurf.de Thilo Pfennig NNNN polzer@uran.informatik.uni-bonn.de A. Polzer Y-NY crot@medizin.uni-leipzig.de Tim Crowe YYYY tgreeley@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU Tom Greeley NNNN anderson@physics.Berkeley.EDU Jeffrey Anderson NNNN bongo@alumni.caltech.edu John Bongiovanni NNNN ml3e+@andrew.cmu.edu Michael Loomis YNYY corwin+@cmu.edu Scott A. Safier YNNN cls48@columbia.edu Chris Stamper -N-- mkc@graphics.cornell.edu Mitch Collinsworth --YN dlk@lns61.tn.cornell.edu David L. Kreinick YYYY rod@hopi.dtcc.edu Rod Rickenbach NNNN hh299@cleveland.Freenet.Edu Jim Baranovich ---N spr@texas.gtri.gatech.edu Stefan Roth YYYY gt4803a@prism.gatech.edu Kevin Mather NNNN tjh@aims.hampshire.edu Tom Hart NNNN henrik@husc.HARVARD.EDU Larry DeLuca YYYY scshah@husc.HARVARD.EDU Samyak Veera YYYY haruka@iastate.edu Aki Nakagawa NNNN wilson@blaze.cs.jhu.edu Dwight Wilson NNNN cmclarz1@homer.louisville.edu Charles M. Clark Jr. NNNN CVANDER@wpo.it.luc.edu Charles Vanderwarf NNNN ryiangou@math.macalstr.edu Renos Yiangou NNNN c667778@showme.missouri.edu Andrew Hicks NNYN patl@catfish.lcs.mit.edu Patrick J. LoPresti NNNN mabehr@MIT.EDU Michael Behr NNNN IDLEMANS@vmsa.csd.mu.edu Scott Idleman NNNN kklenk@foster.helios.nd.edu kevin klenk YYYY fishe@casbah.acns.nwu.edu Carwil James YY-Y tarkava@merle.acns.nwu.edu Todd Arkava NNNN pompei@audia.music.nwu.edu Joe Pompei YYYY j-shibayama@nwu.edu Juris Shibayama NNNN dcwst8+@pitt.edu David Winters YYYY JAL@PSUVM.PSU.EDU Jeff Grimm NNNN skl119@psu.edu Sean Lokey NNNN estock@gandalf.rutgers.edu Richard Estock YYYN weeden@leland.Stanford.EDU Kim Weeden NNNN bnh5940@acs.tamu.edu Blaine Hufnagle NNYN ca8176@tamug3.tamu.edu Tony Cardella --Y- john@neuroman.aud.temple.edu John Schwegler NNYN barry@sg25.aud.temple.edu Barry Magen NNNN rick@bcm.tmc.edu Richard Miller NNNN jstream@girch1.med.uth.tmc.edu John Gunstream NNNN alimun@ecf.toronto.edu Munawar Mohammad Ali YYYY bdh4@midway.uchicago.edu David Wren-Hardin YYYY dgwilson@coewl.cen.uiuc.edu Dale G. Wilson YYYN c-caveny@uiuc.edu Constance Caveny NNYN Peter_Hedlesky.RADIOLOGY@mailgw.surg.med.umich.edu Peter Hedlesky NNNN burn0039@gold.tc.umn.edu Michael A. Burns NNNN wilsonk@cs.unc.edu Kyle Wilson YYYY JJDINSMORE@unca.edu Jennifer Joy Dinsmore NNYN aaron@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Aaron C. Pawlyk YYYN dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu Doanld Newcomb NNNN tcc8v@wald.stat.virginia.edu Ted Chang YYYY griffin@u.washington.edu Thomas Griffin YYYY tprice@u.washington.edu Thomas Price YYYY anderson@macc.wisc.edu Jess Anderson NNNN widenius@cc.helsinki.fi Risto Widenius NNNN Heikki.Kantola@IKI.FI Heikki Kantola NNNY jones@solutions.fi Jouni Viljanen NNNN Hanna.Raty@ydi.vtt.fi Hanna Raty --Y- Ollivier.Robert@hsc.fr Ollivier Robert NNNN chuck@cygnus.dis.anl.gov Chuck Cilek NNNN dwr@llnl.gov Don Roberts YYYY wally@nirvana.jsc.nasa.gov Walter B. Kulecz NYNN natasha@dsclab.ece.ntua.gr Natasa Manousopoulou YYYY mike@cs.technion.ac.il Michael Hoffman YYYY joshua@cimatron.co.il Joshua ben David YYYY m.cucinato@net1-01.bcs.it Marco Cucinato NNNN faheyr@diamond.brooks.af.mil Richard Fahey --Y- mschoenh@sadis01.kelly.af.mil Mark Schoenherr NNNN tritton@mail.accent.net Garret Tritton NNNN terram@alaska.net Daniel M. Wietchy YYYY DDYNAMICS@worldnet.att.net Bill Warford YYYY slick2@worldnet.att.net Brian Grimes YYYY stef@bayarea.net Stef Jones YYYN astrocreep@earthlink.net Paul E. Harvey NNNN byron@epix.net Byron Chandler NNNN joeclark@hookup.net Joe Clark YYYY tuc@iamerica.net Barbara Tucker YYYY amesr@ican.net Robert Ames NNYN kcbbird@renc.igs.net Casey Blackbird YYYY greeny@iquest.net Mark Atkens NYNN vast@li.net Michael Lane YYYN mm@top.monad.net Lynne M. Pitts YYYN bgins@nando.net Bob Ginsberg YYY- sparky1@nauticom.net Mark Dunham NNNN tlode@nyx.net Trygve Lode NNNN bobbie@pb.net Bobbie Rivere YYYN wakelyn@pinn.net N.T. Wakelyn ---N wadetg@sinfo.net Thomas Wade YYYY cloe@sky.net Renee Cloe YYYY teddem@HK.Super.NET Ted Demopoulos NNNN mpeters@supernet.net Marcus Peters NYNN laird@value.net Delbert Laird NNNN tonys@WT.NET Tony Storz NNNN w.lange@chem.LeidenUniv.NL Martyn de Lange YYYY roel.verbunt@tip.nl Roel Verbunt NNNN csaamw@urc.tue.nl Michiel Wijers NNNN jenhel@marin.ntnu.no Jens Bloch Helmers YYYY arstokke@sn.no Kristian E. Stokke YYYY cfbd@southern.co.nz Colin Douthwaite NNNN davidm@kcbbs.gen.nz David Martin YYYY rsc@advanced.org R. S. Camm -YYY tlawson@amug.org Todd C. Lawson NNNY cro@CAM.ORG Claire Robitaille YYYY ismael@CAM.ORG Ismael Cordeiro YYYY SWHITE2@worldbank.org Scott B. White NNN- n.ivo.cruz@telepac.pt Nuno Ivo Cruz YYYY d1gunnar@dtek.chalmers.se Gunnar Andersson YYYN etljgsr@deep-thought.ericsson.se Joerg Schrader YYYY joeann95@student.umu.se Jonnie Andersson -YY- R.H.Argyle@bradford.ac.uk Roz Argyle YYYY CBAY@srv0.med.ed.ac.uk Colin W. Bayne YYY- acc@cee.hw.ac.uk Andy Clegg YNYN p.belli@ic.ac.uk Paul Belli NNNN phlss@ARTS-01.NOVELL.LEEDS.AC.UK Scott Shalkowski YYYN BL3HART@swansea.ac.uk James Hart NNNN CS9H5CJC@swansea.ac.uk Jonathan Crickett NNNN CS9H5TGU@swansea.ac.uk Gavin Thomas NNNN nrp2@mailer.york.ac.uk Nick Ponsford NNNN af@contract.co.uk Alan Fleming YNYY kathy@northlnd.demon.co.uk K J EVANS NNYN zakalwe@vision25.demon.co.uk Andrew Hunt YYYY Invalid ballots ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- lpage@cris.com Larry Page ! No vote statement in message babucher@mtu.edu Brian Bucher ! No vote statement in message SYSTEM@xavier.xu.edu Carl Dickhaus ! Ineligible address scooter@mail.airmail.net ! No vote statement in message stownsley@apc.net Steve ! No vote statement in message meach@thorn.net Mike Meachem ! No vote statement in message test@central.co.nz Andrew Smith ! Ineligible address dlv@bwalk.dm.com ! 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