From mueller@relog.ch Fri Mar 22 15:16:57 1996 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: Urban Mueller Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.lang.java,comp.infosystems.www.misc Subject: RFD: comp.lang.java reorganization Followup-To: news.groups Date: 22 Mar 1996 20:17:21 -0000 Organization: . Lines: 221 Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net Approved: newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net Message-ID: <827525839.24504@uunet.uu.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Archive-Name: comp.lang.java-reorg Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:8437 news.groups:195873 comp.lang.java:33755 comp.infosystems.www.misc:47613 REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) unmoderated group comp.lang.java.advocacy moderated group comp.lang.java.announce unmoderated group comp.lang.java.api unmoderated group comp.lang.java.programmer unmoderated group comp.lang.java.security unmoderated group comp.lang.java.setup unmoderated group comp.lang.java.tech unmoderated group comp.lang.java.misc (renames comp.lang.java) Newsgroups lines: comp.lang.java.advocacy Support for and criticism of the Java System. comp.lang.java.announce Announcements re the Java System. (Moderated) comp.lang.java.api The Java application programming interface. comp.lang.java.misc Miscellaneous discussion of the Java System. comp.lang.java.programmer Programming in the Java language. comp.lang.java.security Security issues raised by Java. comp.lang.java.setup Setting up a Java browser (various vendors). comp.lang.java.tech Technical aspects of Java and the virt. machine. This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the reorganization of the comp.lang.java newsgroup. This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time. Procedural details are below. RATIONALE: all groups NOTE: Most of this RfD was written by David Hopwood, who is on vacation now. I also got input from Davis Lawrence, the moderator of news.announce.newgroups. Specifically, he suggested the merger of the planned comp.lang.java and comp.soft-sys.java, and I fully agree with this. -Urban The popularity of the Java language and environment has undergone explosive growth in the past few months. The traffic on comp.lang.java is currently around 200 messages per day, and many posters have expressed a desire to split the group. A (very) rough breakdown of postings over the past 2 weeks had the following distribution of subjects: advocacy 18% announcements 2% porting 6% setup (browsers/servers) 6% security 3% virtual machine 3% misc (system) 19% API 19% programming 11% setup (development kit) 6% misc (language) 7% The name 'Java' is used both for a programming language, and for a system which allows embedded applets in web pages. The proposal merges these two aspects into one hierarchy to ease the finding of the related topics and the subscribing to all related groups. General posting policy: It is not appropriate to post binary classfiles or long source listings on any of these groups. Instead, the post should reference a WWW or FTP site (short source snippets to demonstrate a particular point or problem are fine). CHARTER: comp.lang.java.advocacy An unmoderated group for articles supporting or criticising Java, discussion of its position in the marketplace, competing technologies (such as Microsoft's Blackbird), Java's future potential, and related issues such as bandwidth requirements and Internet Access Devices. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.announce This moderated, low-volume group is for Java-related announcements, including: o new releases of software (compilers, development kits, browsers, etc.) o new publicly accessible applets o events (user group meetings, conferences, etc.) o new packages or announcements of official specification changes. This is not a discussion group (posts that are likely to generate discussion should have follow-ups set to one of the other Java groups). Moderation policy: The intent of moderation is to ensure this is a low-noise group, and to prevent excessive advertising by any single company. Posts announcing commercial products are acceptable, providing they are kept to a reasonable frequency. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.api An unmoderated group, for questions and discussion about the application programming interface supplied with Java development kits and browsers. This includes any third-party classes that are widely used. Possible questions include: o which class should I use to do [...]? o is there a bug in [...]? o why was [part of the API] designed like this? If traffic is high enough, this group may later (i.e. in a different RFD) be split functionally (perhaps into net, awt and misc groups). In the meantime, posts specific to a class or package should include its name at the beginning of the title, for example, [awt], [sun.net], etc., to facilitate easy filtering. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.misc An unmoderated newsgroup for the discussion of any aspect of Java (as a system for providing executable content, as opposed to as a programming language) not covered under the other related newsgroups. This includes topics that await the creation of their own newsgroup. In accordance with the recommendations for splitting newsgroups, this group renames comp.lang.java. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.programmer An unmoderated group for discussion of Java as a programming language. Specific example topics may include: o types, classes, interfaces, and other language concepts o the syntax and grammar of Java o threaded programming in Java - sychronisation, monitors, etc. o possible language extensions (as opposed to API extensions). The discussion explicitly should not include API features that are not built- in to the Java language (for example, networking and the AWT graphical interface library). For these use comp.lang.java.api instead. The API classes can be used as examples to demonstrate a language feature, however. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.security This unmoderated group is for questions and discussion concerning any of Java's security layers: o algorithmic checks on bytecode o run-time checks on executing programs o access specifiers and package boundaries o security managers and class loaders o public-key encryption and authentication of classes (not yet implemented) o use of secure protocols such as SSL. and for possible changes or extensions to the security architecture. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.setup This unmoderated group is for end-users of Java browsers, who are having difficulty installing a system capable of running Java applets, or administrators having problems serving applets from an HTTP server. Questions on the availability of ports to a specific system should be answered in the FAQ of this group. Subject lines should include the platform that the problem occurs on, and the browser version, e.g. [win95 netscape 2.0], [linux hotjava beta], etc. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.tech An unmoderated group for discussion of the Java technology, including the virtual machine, its implementation, bytecodes, classfile format, performance and optimization, possible extensions, porting etc. Questions about native methods and interfacing Java with other languages are also appropriate. END CHARTER. MODERATOR INFO: comp.lang.java.announce Moderator: Urban Mueller Submission address: java-mod@relog.ch END MODERATOR INFO. PROCEDURE: This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For Votes (CFV) may be posted by a neutral vote taker if the discussion warrants it. Please do not attempt to vote until this happens. All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups. This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any questions about the process. DISTRIBUTION: This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, comp.lang.java, comp.infosystems.www.misc, comp.infosystems.www.announce - Proponent: Urban Mueller Proponent: David Hopwood From jan@bagend.atl.ga.us Fri May 10 19:37:14 1996 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: Jan Isley Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.infosystems.www.misc,comp.lang.java Subject: CFV: comp.lang.java.{advocacy,announce,api,programmer,security,setup,tech,misc} Followup-To: poster Date: 10 May 1996 23:37:16 -0000 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 283 Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net Approved: newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net Expires: 1 Jun 1996 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <831771433.27013@uunet.uu.net> References: <827525839.24504@uunet.uu.net> Reply-To: usenet-votes@mathcs.emory.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Archive-Name: comp.lang.java-reorg Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:8653 news.groups:206032 comp.infosystems.www.misc:50071 comp.lang.java:48943 FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2) unmoderated group comp.lang.java.advocacy moderated group comp.lang.java.announce unmoderated group comp.lang.java.api unmoderated group comp.lang.java.programmer unmoderated group comp.lang.java.security unmoderated group comp.lang.java.setup unmoderated group comp.lang.java.tech unmoderated group comp.lang.java.misc (renames comp.lang.java) Newsgroups line: comp.lang.java.advocacy Support for and criticism of the Java System. comp.lang.java.announce Announcements re the Java System. (Moderated) comp.lang.java.api The Java application programming interface. comp.lang.java.misc Miscellaneous topics on using the Java System. comp.lang.java.programmer Programming in the Java language. comp.lang.java.security Security issues raised by Java. comp.lang.java.setup Setting up a Java browser. comp.lang.java.tech Technical aspects of Java, its inner workings. Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 31 May 1996. This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent. Proponent: Urban Mueller Proponent: David Hopwood Votetaker: Jan Isley RATIONALE: all groups NOTE: Most of this CFV was written by David Hopwood, who is on vacation now. I also got input from David Lawrence, the moderator of news.announce.newgroups. Specifically, he suggested the merger of comp.lang.java and comp.soft-sys.java, and I fully agree with this. -Urban NOTE 2: If you feel that the number of proposed newsgroups is too high, the best candidates for a 'no' vote are c.l.j.api and c.l.j.tech (they were the most disputed). The popularity of the Java language and environment has undergone explosive growth in the past few months. The traffic on comp.lang.java is currently around 200 messages per day, and many posters have expressed a desire to split the group. A (very) rough breakdown of postings over the past 2 weeks had the following distribution of subjects: advocacy 18% announcements 2% porting 6% setup (browsers/servers) 6% security 3% virtual machine 3% misc (system) 19% API 19% programming 11% setup (development kit) 6% misc (language) 7% The name 'Java' is used both for a programming language, and for a system which allows embedded applets in web pages. The proposal merges these two aspects into one hierarchy to ease the finding of the related topics and the subscribing to all related groups. END RATIONALE. CHARTER: all groups It is not appropriate to post binary classfiles or long source listings on any of these groups. Instead, the post should reference a WWW or FTP site (short source snippets to demonstrate a particular point or problem are fine). END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.advocacy An unmoderated group for articles supporting or criticising Java, discussion of its position in the marketplace, competing technologies (such as Microsoft's Blackbird), Java's future potential, and related issues such as bandwidth requirements and Internet Access Devices. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.announce This moderated, low-volume group is for Java-related announcements, including: o new releases of software (compilers, development kits, browsers, etc.) o new publicly accessible applets o events (user group meetings, conferences, etc.) o new packages or announcements of official specification changes. This is not a discussion group (posts that are likely to generate discussion should have follow-ups set to one of the other Java groups). Moderation policy: The intent of moderation is to ensure this is a low-noise group, and to prevent excessive advertising by any single company. Posts announcing commercial products are acceptable, providing they are kept to a reasonable frequency. END CHARTER. MODERATOR INFO: comp.lang.java.announce Moderator: Urban Mueller Article submission address: java-mod@relog.ch Administrative contact address: java-mod@relog.ch END MODERATOR INFO. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.api An unmoderated group, for questions and discussion about the application programming interface supplied with Java development kits and browsers. This includes any third-party classes that are widely used. Possible questions include: o which class should I use to do [...]? o is there a bug in [...]? o why was [part of the API] designed like this? If traffic is high enough, this group may later (i.e. a different RFD) be split functionally (perhaps into net, awt and misc groups). In the meantime, posts specific to a class or package should include its name at the beginning of the title, for example, [awt], [sun.net], etc., to facilitate easy filtering. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.misc An unmoderated newsgroup for the discussion of any aspect of Java (as a system for providing executable content, as opposed to as a programming language) not covered under the other related newsgroups. This includes topics that await the creation of their own newsgroup. In accordance with the recommendations for splitting newsgroups, this group renames comp.lang.java. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.programmer An unmoderated group for discussion of Java as a programming language. Specific example topics may include: o types, classes, interfaces, and other language concepts o the syntax and grammar of Java o threaded programming in Java - sychronisation, monitors, etc. o possible language extensions (as opposed to API extensions). The discussion explicitly should not include API features that are not built into the Java language (for example, networking and the AWT graphical interface library). For these use comp.lang.java.api instead. The API classes can be used as examples to demonstrate a language feature, however. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.security This unmoderated group is for questions and discussion concerning any of Java's security layers: o algorithmic checks on bytecode o run-time checks on executing programs o access specifiers and package boundaries o security managers and class loaders o public-key encryption and authentication of classes (not yet implemented) o use of secure protocols such as SSL. and for possible changes or extensions to the security architecture. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.setup This unmoderated group is for end-users of Java browsers, who are having difficulty installing a system capable of running Java applets, or administrators having problems serving applets from an HTTP server. Questions on the availability of ports to a specific system should be answered in the FAQ of this group. Subject lines should include the platform that the problem occurs on, and the browser version, e.g. [win95 netscape 2.0], [linux hotjava beta], etc. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.tech An unmoderated group for discussion of the Java technology, including the virtual machine, its implementation, bytecodes, classfile format, performance and optimization, possible extensions, porting etc. Questions about native methods and interfacing Java with other languages are also appropriate. END CHARTER. HOW TO VOTE: Vote counting is automated. Follow the directions! You should send E-MAIL (posts to a newsgroup are invalid) to: usenet-votes@mathcs.emory.edu Do not assume that just replying to this message will work. Check the address before you mail your vote. Use the ballot form and indicate your YES or NO vote on each group that you wish to vote on. Please, mail only the ballot form. Delete everything above and below the "-=-=-=-" lines. Names are required. Please indicate your name on the line provided. That is your name, not your e-mail address. (example voter name) Voter Name: John Smith (example yes vote) [ yes ] rec.foo (example no vote) [ no ] rec.foo -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- comp.lang.java reorg Ballot (Don't remove this marker) Voter Name: If you do not give your real name your vote may be rejected. [Your Vote] Group ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [ ] comp.lang.java.advocacy [ ] comp.lang.java.announce [ ] comp.lang.java.api [ ] comp.lang.java.programmer [ ] comp.lang.java.security [ ] comp.lang.java.setup [ ] comp.lang.java.tech [ ] comp.lang.java.misc (renames comp.lang.java) -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- You may also vote ABSTAIN or CANCEL but these are not counted as valid votes for the total count. IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: Standard Guidelines for voting apply. One person, one vote. Votes must be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker. Anonymous, forwarded or proxy votes are not valid. Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI forms are considered to be anonymous votes. Vote counting is automated. Failure to follow these directions may mean that your vote does not get counted. If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the votetaker about the problem. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly. Duplicate votes are resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote. However, attempts to cast more than one vote may result in all votes being rejected. Addresses and votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results post. Usenet votes are taken to determine the general interest level among potential readers of a proposed newsgroup. Soliciting votes from disinterested persons defeats this purpose. If news administrators are not confident that the results of a vote accurately measure the interest in a proposal, they may not carry the newsgroup regardless of the outcome of the vote. Please do not distribute this cfv in any form. The only official source for this CFV is the original article posted to news.announce.newgroups or by e-mail from the votetaker. Distributing pre-marked or edited copies of this CFV is generally considered to be vote fraud. When in doubt, please ask the votetaker. -- Jan Isley | Running UseVote 3. votes to: | Powered by FreeBSD From jan@bagend.atl.ga.us Wed May 22 11:16:14 1996 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: Jan Isley Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.infosystems.www.misc,comp.lang.java Subject: 2nd CFV: comp.lang.java.{advocacy,announce,api,programmer,security,setup,tech,misc} Supersedes: <831771433.27013@uunet.uu.net> Followup-To: poster Date: 22 May 1996 15:16:23 -0000 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 296 Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net Approved: newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net Expires: 1 Jun 1996 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <832778016.1804@uunet.uu.net> References: <827525839.24504@uunet.uu.net> <831771433.27013@uunet.uu.net> Reply-To: usenet-votes@mathcs.emory.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Archive-Name: comp.lang.java-reorg Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:8691 news.groups:207451 comp.infosystems.www.misc:50532 comp.lang.java:52651 LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2) unmoderated group comp.lang.java.advocacy moderated group comp.lang.java.announce unmoderated group comp.lang.java.api unmoderated group comp.lang.java.programmer unmoderated group comp.lang.java.security unmoderated group comp.lang.java.setup unmoderated group comp.lang.java.tech unmoderated group comp.lang.java.misc (renames comp.lang.java) Newsgroups line: comp.lang.java.advocacy Support for and criticism of the Java System. comp.lang.java.announce Announcements re the Java System. (Moderated) comp.lang.java.api The Java application programming interface. comp.lang.java.misc Miscellaneous topics on using the Java System. comp.lang.java.programmer Programming in the Java language. comp.lang.java.security Security issues raised by Java. comp.lang.java.setup Setting up a Java browser. comp.lang.java.tech Technical aspects of Java, its inner workings. Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 31 May 1996. This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent. Proponent: Urban Mueller Proponent: David Hopwood Votetaker: Jan Isley RATIONALE: all groups NOTE: Most of this CFV was written by David Hopwood, who is on vacation now. I also got input from David Lawrence, the moderator of news.announce.newgroups. Specifically, he suggested the merger of comp.lang.java and comp.soft-sys.java, and I fully agree with this. -Urban NOTE 2: If you feel that the number of proposed newsgroups is too high, the best candidates for a 'no' vote are c.l.j.api and c.l.j.tech (they were the most disputed). The popularity of the Java language and environment has undergone explosive growth in the past few months. The traffic on comp.lang.java is currently around 200 messages per day, and many posters have expressed a desire to split the group. A (very) rough breakdown of postings over the past 2 weeks had the following distribution of subjects: advocacy 18% announcements 2% porting 6% setup (browsers/servers) 6% security 3% virtual machine 3% misc (system) 19% API 19% programming 11% setup (development kit) 6% misc (language) 7% The name 'Java' is used both for a programming language, and for a system which allows embedded applets in web pages. The proposal merges these two aspects into one hierarchy to ease the finding of the related topics and the subscribing to all related groups. END RATIONALE. CHARTER: all groups It is not appropriate to post binary classfiles or long source listings on any of these groups. Instead, the post should reference a WWW or FTP site (short source snippets to demonstrate a particular point or problem are fine). END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.advocacy An unmoderated group for articles supporting or criticising Java, discussion of its position in the marketplace, competing technologies (such as Microsoft's Blackbird), Java's future potential, and related issues such as bandwidth requirements and Internet Access Devices. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.announce This moderated, low-volume group is for Java-related announcements, including: o new releases of software (compilers, development kits, browsers, etc.) o new publicly accessible applets o events (user group meetings, conferences, etc.) o new packages or announcements of official specification changes. This is not a discussion group (posts that are likely to generate discussion should have follow-ups set to one of the other Java groups). Moderation policy: The intent of moderation is to ensure this is a low-noise group, and to prevent excessive advertising by any single company. Posts announcing commercial products are acceptable, providing they are kept to a reasonable frequency. END CHARTER. MODERATOR INFO: comp.lang.java.announce Moderator: Urban Mueller Article submission address: java-mod@relog.ch Administrative contact address: java-mod@relog.ch END MODERATOR INFO. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.api An unmoderated group, for questions and discussion about the application programming interface supplied with Java development kits and browsers. This includes any third-party classes that are widely used. Possible questions include: o which class should I use to do [...]? o is there a bug in [...]? o why was [part of the API] designed like this? If traffic is high enough, this group may later (i.e. a different RFD) be split functionally (perhaps into net, awt and misc groups). In the meantime, posts specific to a class or package should include its name at the beginning of the title, for example, [awt], [sun.net], etc., to facilitate easy filtering. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.misc An unmoderated newsgroup for the discussion of any aspect of Java (as a system for providing executable content, as opposed to as a programming language) not covered under the other related newsgroups. This includes topics that await the creation of their own newsgroup. In accordance with the recommendations for splitting newsgroups, this group renames comp.lang.java. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.programmer An unmoderated group for discussion of Java as a programming language. Specific example topics may include: o types, classes, interfaces, and other language concepts o the syntax and grammar of Java o threaded programming in Java - sychronisation, monitors, etc. o possible language extensions (as opposed to API extensions). The discussion explicitly should not include API features that are not built into the Java language (for example, networking and the AWT graphical interface library). For these use comp.lang.java.api instead. The API classes can be used as examples to demonstrate a language feature, however. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.security This unmoderated group is for questions and discussion concerning any of Java's security layers: o algorithmic checks on bytecode o run-time checks on executing programs o access specifiers and package boundaries o security managers and class loaders o public-key encryption and authentication of classes (not yet implemented) o use of secure protocols such as SSL. and for possible changes or extensions to the security architecture. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.setup This unmoderated group is for end-users of Java browsers, who are having difficulty installing a system capable of running Java applets, or administrators having problems serving applets from an HTTP server. Questions on the availability of ports to a specific system should be answered in the FAQ of this group. Subject lines should include the platform that the problem occurs on, and the browser version, e.g. [win95 netscape 2.0], [linux hotjava beta], etc. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.tech An unmoderated group for discussion of the Java technology, including the virtual machine, its implementation, bytecodes, classfile format, performance and optimization, possible extensions, porting etc. Questions about native methods and interfacing Java with other languages are also appropriate. END CHARTER. HOW TO VOTE: Vote counting is automated. Follow the directions! You should send E-MAIL (posts to a newsgroup are invalid) to: usenet-votes@mathcs.emory.edu Do not assume that just replying to this message will work. Check the address before you mail your vote. Use the ballot form and indicate your YES or NO vote on each group that you wish to vote on. Please, mail only the ballot form. Delete everything above and below the "-=-=-=-" lines. Names are required. Please indicate your name on the line provided. That is your name, not your e-mail address. (example voter name) Voter Name: John Smith (example yes vote) [ yes ] rec.foo (example no vote) [ no ] rec.foo -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- comp.lang.java reorg Ballot (Don't remove this marker) Voter Name: If you do not give your real name your vote may be rejected. [Your Vote] Group ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [ ] comp.lang.java.advocacy [ ] comp.lang.java.announce [ ] comp.lang.java.api [ ] comp.lang.java.programmer [ ] comp.lang.java.security [ ] comp.lang.java.setup [ ] comp.lang.java.tech [ ] comp.lang.java.misc (renames comp.lang.java) -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- You may also vote ABSTAIN or CANCEL but these are not counted as valid votes for the total count. IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: Standard Guidelines for voting apply. One person, one vote. Votes must be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker. Anonymous, forwarded or proxy votes are not valid. Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI forms are considered to be anonymous votes. Vote counting is automated. Failure to follow these directions may mean that your vote does not get counted. If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the votetaker about the problem. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly. Duplicate votes are resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote. However, attempts to cast more than one vote may result in all votes being rejected. Addresses and votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results post. Usenet votes are taken to determine the general interest level among potential readers of a proposed newsgroup. Soliciting votes from disinterested persons defeats this purpose. If news administrators are not confident that the results of a vote accurately measure the interest in a proposal, they may not carry the newsgroup regardless of the outcome of the vote. Please do not distribute this cfv in any form. The only official source for this CFV is the original article posted to news.announce.newgroups or by e-mail from the votetaker. Distributing pre-marked or edited copies of this CFV is generally considered to be vote fraud. When in doubt, please ask the votetaker. comp.lang.java reorg Mass Voter list Invalid ballots --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ga_lewis@cs.utas.edu.au Glenn Lewis ! No votemark in ballot lgarcia@inf.ufrgs.br Luis Fernando Fortes Garcia ! No votemark in ballot jbauer@jbauer Jeff Bauer ! Invalid address rolf@parallax.co.uk Rolf Howarth ! No votemark in ballot -- Jan Isley | Running UseVote 3. votes to: | Powered by FreeBSD From jan@bagend.atl.ga.us Tue Jun 11 18:39:13 1996 Path: uunet!bounce-back From: Jan Isley Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.infosystems.www.misc,comp.lang.java Subject: RESULT: comp.lang.java.{advocacy,announce,api,programmer,security,setup,tech,misc} all groups pass Supersedes: <832778016.1804@uunet.uu.net> Followup-To: news.groups Date: 11 Jun 1996 18:39:38 -0400 Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Lines: 805 Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net Approved: newgroups-request@uunet.uu.net Message-ID: <834532774.15780@uunet.uu.net> References: <827525839.24504@uunet.uu.net> <831771433.27013@uunet.uu.net> <832778016.1804@uunet.uu.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net Archive-Name: comp.lang.java-reorg Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:8812 news.groups:211200 comp.infosystems.www.misc:51288 comp.lang.java:59016 RESULT unmoderated group comp.lang.java.advocacy passes 448:70 moderated group comp.lang.java.announce passes 491:38 unmoderated group comp.lang.java.api passes 393:122 unmoderated group comp.lang.java.programmer passes 456:65 unmoderated group comp.lang.java.security passes 456:69 unmoderated group comp.lang.java.setup passes 408:112 unmoderated group comp.lang.java.tech passes 369:149 unmoderated group comp.lang.java.misc (renames comp.lang.java) passes 443:88 comp.lang.java reorg results - 538 valid votes Yes No | 2/3 >100 | Pass | Group ---- ---- | --- ---- | ---- | ------------------------------------------- 448 70 | Yes Yes | Yes | comp.lang.java.advocacy 491 38 | Yes Yes | Yes | comp.lang.java.announce 393 122 | Yes Yes | Yes | comp.lang.java.api 456 65 | Yes Yes | Yes | comp.lang.java.programmer 456 69 | Yes Yes | Yes | comp.lang.java.security 408 112 | Yes Yes | Yes | comp.lang.java.setup 369 149 | Yes Yes | Yes | comp.lang.java.tech 443 88 | Yes Yes | Yes | comp.lang.java.misc 8 invalid votes A five day discussion period follows this announcement. If no serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the moderator of news.announce.newgroups will create the groups shortly thereafter. Newsgroups line: comp.lang.java.advocacy Support for and criticism of the Java System. comp.lang.java.announce Announcements re the Java System. (Moderated) comp.lang.java.api The Java application programming interface. comp.lang.java.misc Miscellaneous topics on using the Java System. comp.lang.java.programmer Programming in the Java language. comp.lang.java.security Security issues raised by Java. comp.lang.java.setup Setting up a Java browser. comp.lang.java.tech Technical aspects of Java, its inner workings. Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 31 May 1996. This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent. Proponent: Urban Mueller Proponent: David Hopwood Votetaker: Jan Isley RATIONALE: all groups NOTE: Most of this CFV was written by David Hopwood, who is on vacation now. I also got input from David Lawrence, the moderator of news.announce.newgroups. Specifically, he suggested the merger of comp.lang.java and comp.soft-sys.java, and I fully agree with this. -Urban NOTE 2: If you feel that the number of proposed newsgroups is too high, the best candidates for a 'no' vote are c.l.j.api and c.l.j.tech (they were the most disputed). The popularity of the Java language and environment has undergone explosive growth in the past few months. The traffic on comp.lang.java is currently around 200 messages per day, and many posters have expressed a desire to split the group. A (very) rough breakdown of postings over the past 2 weeks had the following distribution of subjects: advocacy 18% announcements 2% porting 6% setup (browsers/servers) 6% security 3% virtual machine 3% misc (system) 19% API 19% programming 11% setup (development kit) 6% misc (language) 7% The name 'Java' is used both for a programming language, and for a system which allows embedded applets in web pages. The proposal merges these two aspects into one hierarchy to ease the finding of the related topics and the subscribing to all related groups. END RATIONALE. CHARTER: all groups It is not appropriate to post binary classfiles or long source listings on any of these groups. Instead, the post should reference a WWW or FTP site (short source snippets to demonstrate a particular point or problem are fine). END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.advocacy An unmoderated group for articles supporting or criticising Java, discussion of its position in the marketplace, competing technologies (such as Microsoft's Blackbird), Java's future potential, and related issues such as bandwidth requirements and Internet Access Devices. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.announce This moderated, low-volume group is for Java-related announcements, including: o new releases of software (compilers, development kits, browsers, etc.) o new publicly accessible applets o events (user group meetings, conferences, etc.) o new packages or announcements of official specification changes. This is not a discussion group (posts that are likely to generate discussion should have follow-ups set to one of the other Java groups). Moderation policy: The intent of moderation is to ensure this is a low-noise group, and to prevent excessive advertising by any single company. Posts announcing commercial products are acceptable, providing they are kept to a reasonable frequency. END CHARTER. MODERATOR INFO: comp.lang.java.announce Moderator: Urban Mueller Article submission address: java-mod@relog.ch Administrative contact address: java-mod@relog.ch END MODERATOR INFO. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.api An unmoderated group, for questions and discussion about the application programming interface supplied with Java development kits and browsers. This includes any third-party classes that are widely used. Possible questions include: o which class should I use to do [...]? o is there a bug in [...]? o why was [part of the API] designed like this? If traffic is high enough, this group may later (i.e. a different RFD) be split functionally (perhaps into net, awt and misc groups). In the meantime, posts specific to a class or package should include its name at the beginning of the title, for example, [awt], [sun.net], etc., to facilitate easy filtering. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.misc An unmoderated newsgroup for the discussion of any aspect of Java (as a system for providing executable content, as opposed to as a programming language) not covered under the other related newsgroups. This includes topics that await the creation of their own newsgroup. In accordance with the recommendations for splitting newsgroups, this group renames comp.lang.java. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.programmer An unmoderated group for discussion of Java as a programming language. Specific example topics may include: o types, classes, interfaces, and other language concepts o the syntax and grammar of Java o threaded programming in Java - sychronisation, monitors, etc. o possible language extensions (as opposed to API extensions). The discussion explicitly should not include API features that are not built into the Java language (for example, networking and the AWT graphical interface library). For these use comp.lang.java.api instead. The API classes can be used as examples to demonstrate a language feature, however. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.security This unmoderated group is for questions and discussion concerning any of Java's security layers: o algorithmic checks on bytecode o run-time checks on executing programs o access specifiers and package boundaries o security managers and class loaders o public-key encryption and authentication of classes (not yet implemented) o use of secure protocols such as SSL. and for possible changes or extensions to the security architecture. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.setup This unmoderated group is for end-users of Java browsers, who are having difficulty installing a system capable of running Java applets, or administrators having problems serving applets from an HTTP server. Questions on the availability of ports to a specific system should be answered in the FAQ of this group. Subject lines should include the platform that the problem occurs on, and the browser version, e.g. [win95 netscape 2.0], [linux hotjava beta], etc. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.tech An unmoderated group for discussion of the Java technology, including the virtual machine, its implementation, bytecodes, classfile format, performance and optimization, possible extensions, porting etc. Questions about native methods and interfacing Java with other languages are also appropriate. END CHARTER. comp.lang.java reorg Final Voter list comp.lang.java.misc ----------+ comp.lang.java.tech ---------+| comp.lang.java.setup --------+|| comp.lang.java.security -------+||| comp.lang.java.programmer ------+|||| comp.lang.java.api -----+||||| comp.lang.java.announce ----+|||||| comp.lang.java.advocacy ---+||||||| |||||||| --------------------------------------------------------------------------- werpu@inflab.uni-linz.ac.at Werner Punz YNNYNNYY Andreas.Neubacher@risc.uni-linz.ac.at Andreas Neubacher YYYYYYYY rel@lipo.co.at Roland E. Lipovits YYNYYYNY alex@access.com.au Alexandre Rafalovitch YYYYYYYY raphael@research.canon.com.au Andrew Raphael NNNNNNNN davidr@magna.com.au David Rothwell YYYYYYYY tedh@magna.com.au Ted Harper YYNYNYNY alex@jolt.mpx.com.au Alex Kowalenko YYYYYYYY carl.johnson@nautronix.com.au Carl Johnson YYNYYYYN harry@nautronix.com.au Harry Protoolis YYYYYYYY Sam.Taylor@cisr.anu.edu.au Samuel Taylor YYYYYYYY markus@octavia.anu.edu.au Markus Buchhorn YYNYYYNY North_TJ@ALPHA2.CURTIN.EDU.AU Tim North YY-YYY-Y leachbj@leopard.cs.latrobe.edu.au Bernard Leach YYNYYNNY avl@cs.monash.edu.au Alpha Lau -YYYY--- pringle@cs.monash.edu.au GLen Pringle YYYYYYYY watson@cleo.murdoch.edu.au Andrew Watson YYYYYYYY Leanne.Davis@UniSA.Edu.AU Leanne Davis YYYYYYYY warwick@cs.uq.edu.au Warwick Allison NYNYYYYN rnielsen@tartarus.uwa.edu.au Robert Nielsen NYYYNNYN sbd@itd.dsto.defence.gov.au Scott Davis YYYYYYYY jcc@mana.apana.org.au Jeff Coleman YYYYYYYY mjj@bain.oz.au Matthew Jackson YYYYYYYY keong@ecr.mu.OZ.AU Keong Lim YYYYYYYY mjc@suite.sw.oz.au Michael Cahill YYYYYYYY h_troost@roam.agfa.be Herwig Troost YYNYYYNY geensr@sebb.bel.alcatel.be Ronald Geens YYYYYYYY litrik@nbre.nfe.be Litrik De Roy YYYYYYYY kuhn@inf.ufrgs.br Rafael Vilarino Kuhn YYYYYYYY oliva@dcc.unicamp.br Alexandre Oliva YYYYYYYY howardk@cyberstore.ca Howard Katz YYYYYYNY jmarcoux@cmc.doe.CA Jacques Marcoux YYYYYNNY kelkr@pwgsc.gc.ca Robert Kelk -Y--YYYY mikel@ats.qc.ca Mikel Doucet YYYYYYYY churchman@siast.sk.ca Bill Churchman YYYYYYYY gerald@cs.ualberta.ca Gerald Oskoboiny YYYYYYYY srinivas@cs.ualberta.ca Srinivas Padmanabhuni YYYYYYYY theodore@cs.ualberta.ca Theodore Ono NNNNNNNN edmonds@cs.ubc.ca Brian Edmonds -Y-----Y gopal@geog.utoronto.ca gopal g. YYYYYYYY bayoung@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca Brian Young YYYYYYYY pkaminsk@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca Piotr Kaminski YYYYYNYY arzaidi@novice.uwaterloo.ca Rehan Zaidi YYNNYYYY Claude.Lecommandeur@Epfl.Ch Claude Lecommandeur YYYYYYYY stouffs@arch.ethz.ch Rudi Stouffs YYYYYYYY daniel@vis.inf.ethz.ch Daniel Gerald Kluge YN-YYN-- roehm@inf.ethz.ch Uwe Roehm NYYYYNYY simon@instrumatic.ch Simon Leinen YYYYYYYY stefano@galileo.pr.net.ch Stefano Unternaehrer YY-YY-YY seefeld@indiac.relog.ch Bernhard A. M. Seefeld YYYYYYYY bdelacretaz@worldcom.ch Bertrand Delacretaz YYNYYYNN Walter@adco.com Walter Szewelanczyk YYYYYYYY ran@adc.com Rob Nielsen YYYYYYYY pasqua@adobe.com Joe Pasqua YYYYYNYN mayer@adra.com Ralph Mayer YYNYNYYN devuns@alsys.com Olivier Devuns NYNNNNNY CFDOTY@aol.com Charles F. Doty YYYYYYYY christij@unix.asb.com Joseph Christie YYYYYYYY bonacci@slc.eng.ascend.com Tom M. Bonacci NNYYYNNN jls@atglab.atg.com Jerry Schneider YYYYYYNY hbchen@drmail.dr.att.com Hsing-bung Chen YYYYYYYY rwurth@att.com R. T. Wurth -------N pierre.malraison@autodesk.com pierre malraison YYYYYNYY gknauth@BBN.COM Geoffrey S. Knauth YYYYYYYY cheenu@bell-labs.com Cheenu Srinivasan YYYYYYYY stainles@bga.com Dwight Brown NNNNNNNN roedy@BIX.com Roedy Green YYYYYYYN shs@bmobile.com Steve Schoettler YYNYYYYY abennett@borland.com Andrew Bennett YYYYYYYY benm@borland.com Ben Matterson YYYYYYYN pciccone@borland.com Paolo Ciccone YYYYNNYY alex@budgetweb.com Alex Chapman YYYYYYYY dick@burningdoor.com Dick Costolo YYNNNNNY william@msmail.carsinfo.com William Harris YYYYNNNY rwilkins@ccnet3.ccnet.com Robert Wilkins YYYYYYYY Matthew.O.Brumbaugh@cdc.com Matthew Brumbaugh YYYYYYNY dcell@cftnet.com Dave YYYYYYYY wolf@cgi.com David Wolf YYYYYYYY hdwsh@chevron.com Dennis Shaw YYYYYYYY ssmith@comland.com Stanton Smith YYYYYYYY Eric.Ayers@compgen.com Eric YYNYYYN- bwb@concentra.com Brent Benson YYYYYYYY inb@creare.com Ian Brown YYYYYYYY zot@crl.com Zot O'Connor YYYYYYYY dmahoney@ctron.com Daniel Mahoney YYNYYYNY larryr@CyberGate.COM Larry Rau YYYYYYYY hucke@azathoth.cynico.com Matt Hucke YYYYYYYY booda@datasync.com Martin H. Booda NNNNNNNN klein@datatools.com Michael Klein YYYYYYYY Jim.Ancona@dbsoftware.com Jim Ancona YYYYYYYY sdy@zso.dec.com Steven D. Yee YYYYYYYY luke@dimensionx.com Luke Oberhuber YYNYYYNY alex@earthweb.com Alex Chaffee YYNNYYNN ssd@mmts.eds.com Sean Dowd YYYYYYYY Jeff.Kriese@evolving.com Jeff Kriese YYYYYYNY Shane.Furlong@evolving.com Shane Furlong NYYYYYNY carpente@execpc.com Vinit Carpenter YYYYYYYY Paul_Bearden@fasttax.com Paul Bearden NYYYYYYY rstockto@ford.com Greg Stockton YYYYYYYY tprodin@ford.com Timothy Prodin NYYYYYYY jmillar@ftp.com Joseph A. Millar YYNYYYNN philipg@ftp.com Philip Bradley Gross YYYYYYYY hhansen@halcyon.com Howard Hansen YYYYYYYY andyl@harlequin.com Andy Latto YYYYYYYN hph@hcl.com PhiHo Hoang YYYYYYYY bjv@herbison.com B.J. Herbison -------Y israel@his.com Bruce Israel YYYYYYYY swm@atl.hp.com Sandy Morton YYNYYNNY weeks@orpheus.dtc.hp.com Greg Weeks ---Y---- mcc@watson.ibm.com Mark C. Chu-Carroll YYYYYYYY hakan@speedy.iconsult.com Hakan Tandogan YYYYYYYY adfh@ids2.idsonline.com Eric Vought YYNNNNNN kowallek@iglou.com Dennis M. Kowallek YYYNYYNY davis@ilog.com Harley Davis YYYYYYYY stt@dsd.camb.inmet.com S. Tucker Taft YYYYYYYY vdelvecc@mesmer.camb.inmet.com Vincent Del Vecchio YYNYYNNN BrianX_Maso@ccm.jf.intel.com Brian Maso YYYYYYYY mbnx@SSD.intel.com Mike Northam YYYYYYYY bparker@interaccess.com Ben Parker YYYYYYYY j_debriz@interaccess.com Joe DeBrizzio YYYYYYYY gli@interlog.com Godfrey Lam YYYNYNYY paxil@interlog.com Trevor Tymchuk YYYYYYYY boyken@ansel.intersource.com Bob Boyken YYYYYYYY tspellman@intranet.com Timothy P. Spellman YYYYYYYY sirilyan@io.com Doug Sheppard -YYYYN-Y ted@javatrain.com Ted Young YYYYYYYY cloos@jhcloos.com James H Cloos Jr YYYYYYYY kavanagh_steve@jpmorgan.com Stephen K. Kavanagh NNNNNNNN pkwu@lehman.com Peter Wu YYYYYYYY andrzej@mcc.com Andrzej Cichocki YYNYYYNY smayer@mediashare.com Steve Mayer YYNNYYNN patrickc@metronet.com Patrick Conroy YYYYYYNY jager@austin.metrowerks.com Marcus Jager YYNYYYNY dtsadam@mindspring.com Dale Smith YYYYYYNY wrf3@mindspring.com Bob Felts YYYYYYYY captain@ent.mrj.com Jeff Kirk YYYYYYYY olav@viking.mv.com Olav Nieuwejaar NNNNNNNN mark@mvision.com Mark T. Evenson YYYYYYYY joe@nall.com Joe Nall YYNNNYNY kevin@natural.com Kevin Shay YYYNYYYY brownell@ix.netcom.com David Brownell YYNYYNNY kjbarth@ix.netcom.com Kenneth Barth YYYYYYYY rowleyw@ix.netcom.com William R. Rowley, Jr. YYNYYYNY rramirez@ix.netcom.com Eugene Ruben Ramirez YYYYYYYY sanjayj@ix.netcom.com Sanjay Jain YYYYYNYY catseye@netcom.com Mark Kupferman NYYYYYNY davidf@netcom.com david farmer NNNNNNNN ekraft@netcom.com Erik Kraft YYNYYNYY genepool@netcom.com Jim Michael YYYYYYYN sohail@netcom.com SOhail Qureshi YYYYYYYY wrwadley@netcom.com Bill Wadley YYYYYYYY douglas@netdoor.com Douglas L Stewart YYNYYNNY linh@netone.com Linh D. Ngo YYYYYYYY pfrench@newtek.com Pat Brouillette YYYYYNNY SPB@tntv1.ntrs.com Steve Bonine -YYYYYYY TJASKIEW@us.oracle.com Tom Jaskiewicz -------Y samkho@osam.com Samuel P. Kho YYYYYYYY bill@otherwise.com Bill Tschumy NNNNNNNN dcoe@overlord.com David Coe YYNYNNNN phil@panix.com Phil Gustafson YYYYYYYY sal@panix.com Salvatore Denaro YYYYYYNY sminer@parcplace.com Stephen E. Miner YYYYYYYY nberkman@alderaan.pcix.com Neil Berkman YYYYNNYY J.Sunter@ehv.tass.philips.com J.P.E. Sunter YYYYYYYY lee@piclab.com Lee Daniel Crocker YYNYNNNN preacher@dial.pipex.com Stefan Janusz Laszczyk YYYYYYYY rlcarr@animato.pn.com Rich Carreiro YYYYYYYY whodges@pniltd.com Wes Hodges YYYYYYYY dsparks@pobox.com Dave Sparks YYYYYYYY rjgrace@pobox.com R. Jeffrey Grace YYYYYYYY steve.barr@pobox.com Steve Barr YYYYYYYY jed@poisson.com Jason Durbin YYYYYYYY kim@shell.portal.com Kim DeVaughn YYYYYYYN pierre@shell.portal.com Pierre Uszynski YYYYYYNY jgilber@primenet.com Jeff Gilbertson NYYYNNNY jtsatsk@primenet.com Joseph I. Tsatskin NYYYYYYY caro@pro-c.com Charles C. Caro YYYYYYYY francis@redrice.com Francis Norton YYYYYYYY zaleta@polk.reticular.com David Zaleta YYYNYYYY matt.stupple@reuters.com Matt Stupple YYYYYYNY yon@rfdsoftware.com David Yon NYNYYYNY irons@roguewave.com Mark L. Irons YYYYYYYY bnh@tri.sbc.com Bach Hoang YYYYYYYY ken@kdl.sc.scruznet.com Kenneth Latta YYYYYYYY srr@seanet.com Stephen Roe YYNYYYNY gjohnson@season.com Gary Johnson -Y-Y-YY- sandvik@kent.engr.sgi.com Kent Sandvik NYNNNNNN chadm@unhinged.engr.sgi.com Chad Ray McDaniel YYYYYNYY Paul_Breed@shiva.com Paul Breed YYYYYYNY rcp@austin.sar.slb.com Robert Pettengill YYYYYYYY tjoneslo@softstart.com Thomas Jones-Low YYYYYYNY mckinley@spss.com Rob McKinley YYYYYYYY naughton@starwave.com Patrick Naughton YYYYYYYY amc@sweng.stortek.com Alan F. McCartney NYYYYNYY yg@stranger.com Yuri Ginsburg YYYYNNYY griscom@suitable.com Daniel T. Griscom YYYYYYYY dave.miner@suneast.East.Sun.COM Dave Miner YYNYYNYN mrm@doppio.Eng.Sun.COM Marianne Mueller NYNYYYNN tball@doppio.Eng.Sun.COM Thomas Ball YYYYYYYY tchavez@doppio.Eng.Sun.COM Tom Chavez YYYYYYYY linden@hsmpk14a-105.Eng.Sun.COM Peter van der Linden NNNNNNNN pelegri@wombat.Eng.Sun.COM Eduardo Pelegri-Llopart NYNNNNYN Alan.Nichols@Eng.Sun.COM Alan Nichols YYNNNNYN Brenda.Bowden@Eng.Sun.COM Brenda Bowden YYYYYYYY Nolan.Toone@Eng.Sun.COM Nolan Toone YYNNYNYN Ludovic.Poitou@France.Sun.COM Ludovic Poitou YYYYYNYY stoecklin.raymond@ch.swissbank.com Raymond C. Stoecklin YYNYYYYY kam_trivedi@il.us.swissbank.com Kamlesh Trivedi NYNYYNNY tbas@sybase.com Tony Basoglu YYYYYYYN cprinos@symantec.com Christopher Prinos YYYYNNNY DSmith2@symantec.com D'Arcy Smith YYNNNYNN SDeeg@symantec.com Scott Deeg NYNNYYYY wmwedel@tahosa.com Waldo M. Wedel YYYYYYYY david_goldsmith@taligent.com David Goldsmith YYYYYYYY arielle@taronga.com Stephanie da Silva -Y-----Y peter@taronga.com Peter da Silva N---Y--Y stoler@tds.com Mike Stoler NNNNNNNN marko@tekamah.com Marko Teittinen YYYYYYYY thekeep@kendaco.telebyte.com Corey M. Snow YYNYYYNN richards@teleport.com Eric Richards NYYYNNNY peterson@csc.ti.com Bob Peterson YYNYYYYY Gregory_Brail@transarc.com Greg Brail YYNYYYNY klein.lau@trw.com Klein Lau YY-YYYYN ee@tsu.com Esther Etherington YYYYYYYY oseiler@tvinet.com Oliver Seiler NYYYYNNY eggert@twinsun.com Paul Eggert YYYYYNYY jaz@ultranet.com John Zukowski NYYYYYNN axmayer@heron.uswc.uswest.com Alastair Mayer YYYYYYYY greg@vignette.com Greg Hilton YYYYYYYY scotth@visix.com Scott Hofmann YYYYYYYY bill@infostation.vtls.com William C. Wake YYNYNYNN ggainey@comedy.widget.com Grant R. Gainey YYNNNYNY klee@WOLFENET.com Lawrence K. Lee YYYYYYYY rreini@wwnet.com Roger Reini YYYYYYYY MARLINP@xdb.com Marlin W. Pierce YYYNYYYY leec@xmission.com Lee Choquette YYNYYYNY stritof@xnet.com Andy Stritof YYNYYYNN markb@sj.znet.com Mark Brautigam YYNYNYNN pbonney@zoom.com Peter Bonney YYYYNNYY oliver@arena.de Oliver Schiffers YYYYYYYY pautz@blinx.de Howard Pautz NNNNNNNN schorse@nightlife.escape.de Hansjoerg Oppermann YYYYYYYY barnard@forge.franken.de Henning Schmiedehausen YYYYYYYY schaefer@inf.fu-berlin.de Joachim Meder YYYYYYYY David.England@gmd.de David England YYNYYYNY E.PETERSEN@TRILOS.han.de Erik Petersen YYYYYYYY dieter@hit.handshake.de Dieter Maurer YYYYYNNY nsr@inteam.in-gmbh.de Norbert Steiner YYNYYYNY caro@inm.de Caroline Geiger YYYYYYYY fix@inm.de Markus Fix YYYYYYYY pierre@mpi-muelheim.mpg.de PIERRE SUTER YYYYYYYY roth@sunny.mpimf-heidelberg.mpg.de Arnd Roth YYYYYYNY andy@rag3.RZ-Berlin.MPG.DE Andrei Grigoriev NYNYYYNY ns@sphinx.muc.de Nico Scherer YYNYYYNY alexander.dietrich@hamburg.netsurf.de Alexander Dietrich NYYYYNNY list-votes@dream.hb.north.de Martin Schr"oder YY-YYYYY Markus.Singer@PC-Plus.DE Markus Singer YYYYYYYY aj@arthur.pfalz.de Andreas Jaeger YY-YYY-Y naddy@mips.pfalz.de Christian Weisgerber NNNNNNNN thomas.kock@sap-ag.de Thomas Kock YYYYYYYY cordsmeier.pad@sni.de Martin Cordsmeier YYYYYYYY mkorth@slts.systline.de Markus Korth NYNYYNNY hsauer@marnie.teuto.de Henning Sauer YYYYYYYY ws@kurt.tools.de Wolfgang Solfrank YYYYYYYY keiblin@cs.tu-berlin.de Alexander Keiblinger YYYYYYYY Cord.Hockemeyer@mapsy.nat.tu-bs.de Cord Hockemeyer YYYYYYYY sas@wap00.informatik.tu-freiberg.de Sandra Stoecker YYYYYYYY finc27@zx2.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE Thomas Adams YYYYYYYY jnkautz@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de Jan Kautz YYYYYNYY aoppelt@theorie3.physik.uni-erlangen.de Achim Oppelt YYYYYYYY ukbx@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de Jerome Waibel YYYYYYYY wib@cs.uni-kiel.de Willi Burmeister YYYYYYYY baentsch@informatik.uni-kl.de Michael Baentsch YYYYYYYY peine@informatik.uni-kl.de Holger Peine YYYYYYYY bernd.leibing@rz.uni-ulm.de Bernd Leibing YYYYYYYY gnort@daimi.aau.dk Lars Balker Rasmussen YYNYYYNN grouleff@daimi.aau.dk Morten Grouleff YYNYYYNN sparre@fys.ku.dk Jacob Sparre Andersen YYYYYYYY abraham@dina.kvl.dk Per Abrahamsen YY-----Y harris@alf.nbi.dk Martin G. Harris YYYYYYNY eiki@nordita.dk Eirikur Hjartarson YYYYYYYY cbs@ramboll.dk Claus HB Soerensen YYYYYYYY tlawson@email.univpubs.american.edu Todd C. Lawson YNNYYNNY fekete@chi3.bc.edu Zoli Fekete YYYYYYYY troys@franklin.CS.Berkeley.EDU Troy Shahoumian YYYYYYYY erik@acs.brockport.edu erik seielstad YYYYYYYY milun@cs.Buffalo.EDU Davin Milun YYYYYYYY butler@cs.byu.edu Kevin Butler YYYYYYYY MIKE@seward.ccsn.edu Michael W. Reith YYYYYYYY jo1t+@andrew.cmu.edu Jon Orris YYYYYYYY ml3e+@andrew.cmu.edu Michael Loomis NNNNNNNN escharff@CS.Cornell.EDU Eric Scharff NYYYYYYY karr@CS.Cornell.EDU David Karr -NNNN-NN ptb@k2.scl.cwru.edu Paul Buchheit YYYYYYYY hh299@cleveland.Freenet.Edu Jim Baranovich NNNNNNNN lloyd@NU.cs.fsu.edu Justin C. Lloyd YYYYYYYY ryang@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu G. Ryan NNNNNNNN eekim@hcs.HARVARD.EDU Eugene Eric Kim YYYYYYYY robison@nucleus.harvard.edu Keith Robison YYYYYYYY ACCBPF@vaxc.hofstra.edu Brian Ferris YYYYYYYY biermann@ISI.EDU Amy S. Biermann YYYYYYNY hall@aplcenmp.apl.jhu.edu Marty Hall NNNNNNNN arromdee@hops.cs.jhu.edu Ken Arromdee -------N dshaw@cs.jhu.edu David Shaw YYNYYYNY waltrip@zephyr.jhuapl.edu Charles F. Waltrip YYYYYYYY bumgarls@jmu.edu Lee S. Bumgarner YYYYYYYY drferrin@slate.Mines.EDU Danno Ferrin YYYYYYYY adams@martigny.ai.mit.edu Stephen Adams YYYYYYYY mikea@ai.mit.edu Michael Afergan YYYNYYYY patl@catfish.lcs.mit.edu Patrick J. LoPresti NNNNNNNN holt@graphics.lcs.mit.edu Adam Holt YYYYYYNY kmzoerho@mtu.edu Kristian Zoerhoff YYNNNYNN qian!dliu@arrow.njit.edu Dong Liu YYYYYYYY adelgado@cs.nmsu.edu Alfredo Delgado YYYYYYYY mallen@nwu.edu Mark Allen YYYYYYYY gottfrhe@chert.CS.ORST.EDU Herky Gottfried YYYYYYYY dcwst8+@pitt.edu David Winters YYYYYYYY dwallach@CS.Princeton.EDU Dan Wallach YYNYYNNY ztfeng@math.Princeton.EDU Thomas Feng NYYYYNYY lieske@Princeton.EDU Jay Lieske Jr YYNYYYNY dsc@xray.hmc.psu.edu David S. Channin YYYYYYYY barr@math.psu.edu David Barr YYYYYNNY lac@cs.rit.edu Lawrence A. Coon YYYYYYYY jkwiat@sbu.edu Joseph Kwiatkowski YYYYYYYY andrew@sdsu.edu Andrew Scherpbier YYYYYNNY rick@bcm.tmc.edu Richard Miller YYYYNNNY kirkwood@cs.tulane.edu Chris Kirkwood-Watts YYYYYYYY ckk@uchicago.edu Chris Koenigsberg YYYYYYYY boldt@math.ucsb.edu Axel Boldt YYYYYYNY hermit@cats.ucsc.edu William Ward YYNYYYNN lancec@dream.wireless.ucsc.edu Lance Chun NNNNNNNN paul@titian.bvis.uic.edu Paul F. Neumann YYNYYNNY bholzm1@icarus.cc.uic.edu Burt Holzman NNNNNNNN kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu Mark Hughes YYYYYYYY joel@bolt.atmos.uiuc.edu Joel Plutchak YYNYYNNY walker@avenir.cso.uiuc.edu Michael Walker YYYYYYYY smpatel@umiacs.umd.edu Sujal Patel YYNYYYNY dogcow@ccs.itd.umich.edu Tom Spindler NNNNNNNN afabbro@umich.edu Andrew Philip Fabbro YYNNNNNN palukal@umich.edu Paul Alukal NYYNYYNY coleman@chez-gnu.cstp.umkc.edu Mike Coleman YYYYYYYY harinath@cs.umn.edu Raja R Harinath YYYYYYYY sbrown@unf.edu Stephen Brown YYNYYYYY adair@bigpine.csee.usf.edu Jonathan Adair YYYYYYYY SL3R9@cc.usu.edu Raghu Krishnaswamy YYYYYNYY adam.connor@mail.utexas.edu Adam Connor YYYYYYYY hodge@utkux.utcc.utk.edu Christopher Dale Hodge YYYYYYYY terry-moore@utk.edu Terry Moore YYYYYYYY dors@cac.washington.edu Nathan Dors YYYYYYYY josh@pogo.cqs.washington.edu Joshua Hayes YYNYYYYY chapman@cs.washington.edu Randy Chapman YYYYYYYY selberg@cs.washington.edu Erik Selberg YYYYYYYY pschwrtz@hitl.washington.edu Paul Schwartz YYYNYYYY tomas@cae.wisc.edu Tomas Willis YYYYYYYY fwb@sequencer.wustl.edu Frank Burough YYYYYYYY umueller@wuarchive.wustl.edu Urban Mueller YYYYYYYY marie-christine.mahe@yale.edu Marie-Christine Mahe YYYYYYYY hkantola@cc.helsinki.fi Heikki Kantola YYN--NNY widenius@cc.helsinki.fi Risto Widenius NNNNNNNN Camillo.Sars@iki.fi Camillo Särs YYY-YYYY Pekka.Nikander@nixu.fi Perkka Nikander YYYYYNNY jlaiho@ichaos.nullnet.fi Juha Laiho YYYYYYYY maage@cs.tut.fi Markus Linnala YYYYYYYY boubaker@amfou.cenatls.cena.dgac.fr heddy Boubaker YYYYYYYY vincent@clt50bw.der.edf.fr Vincent LADEUIL YYYYYYYY Laurent.Pellissier@ensm-ales.fr Laurent PELLISSIER YYYYYY-Y Olivier.Aubert@enst-bretagne.fr Olivier Aubert YYYYYYYY bonnetf@bart.esiee.fr Frank Bonnet YYYYYYYY laurent@caladan.fdn.fr Laurent LECHELLE YYYYYYYY Marc.Baudoin@hsc.fr Marc Baudoin YYYYYYYY Ollivier.Robert@hsc.fr Ollivier Robert NYNYYNYY David.Cure@ifremer.fr David Cure YYYYYYYY Jean-Michel.Leon@sophia.inria.fr Jean-Michel Leon NNNNNNNN matthieu@laas.fr Matthieu Herrb YYYYYYYY seward@hplyot.obspm.fr Anthony Joseph Seward YYYYYYYY geisler@mcs.anl.gov Jonathan Geisler -Y--Y-YY warb@tgf.tc.faa.gov Dan Warburton YYYNYYNN rdaniel@acl.lanl.gov Ron Daniel Jr. YYYYYYYY craigm@llnl.gov Craig McChesney YYYYYYYY emma@sled.gsfc.nasa.gov Emma Kolstad Antunes YYNNYNNN bruce.e.oneel.1@gsfc.nasa.gov Bruce O'Neel YYYYYYYY sandra.r.grosvenor.1@gsfc.nasa.gov Sandy Grosvenor YYYYYYYY hack@outland.jsc.nasa.gov Edmund Hack YYYYYYYY jpc@hammer.msfc.nasa.gov J. Porter Clark NYNYYNNY crideja@jetson.msfc.nasa.gov J. Allen Crider YYYYYYYY kls@nlm.nih.gov Kevin Scott YYNYYNNY miller@cam.nist.gov Bruce Miller YYNNNNNY dbigwood@locus.gig.usda.gov Douglas W. Bigwood YYYYYYYY pmrael@usgs.gov Patrick M. Rael YYYYYYYY mtheofy@dblab.ntua.gr Marcos Theophylactou YYYYYYYY meagherb@indigo.ie Brian Meagher YYYYYYYY jjw@alerts.co.il Joe Weisblatt YYYYYYYY gvenkat@konark.ncst.ernet.in G.Venkataraman YYYYYYNY nan0744@comune.bologna.it Paolo Perrotta YYYYYYYY georg@lagoon.isdgm.ve.cnr.it Georg Umgiesser YYYYYYYY munafo@hp0tlc.polito.it Maurizio Munafo' YYYYYYYY mau@beatles.cselt.stet.it Maurizio Codogno YYYYYYYY g.vieri@stm.it Giovambattista Vieri YYYYYYYY lrosa@telnetwork.it Luigi Rosa YYYYYYYY defago@csl.cl.nec.co.jp Xavier DEFAGO YYYYYYYY edwin@vl_wssf_mail.chinalake.navy.mil Edward E. Winchester YYYYYYYN reed@itd.nrl.navy.mil Michael G. Reed YYYYYNYY eroberts@C38FS0.Npt.nuwc.navy.mil G. Edward Roberts YYYYYYYY tompio@airmail.net Tom Piotrowski YYYYYYYY blair@worldnet.att.net Wally Blair YYYYYYYY danatbird@worldnet.att.net Dana Brewer YYYYYYYY LBliss@worldnet.att.net Lee Bliss YYYYYYYY khkramer@bitwise.net Kwin Kramer YYNYNNNN ems@blarg.net Erik Seaberg YYYYYNYY miles@clark.net Miles T. Parker YYNYYYNY rcade@mail.concentric.net Rogers Cadenhead NNNNNNNN frog@cybercom.net Aleda Freeman YYYYYYNY jbumgarn@dayton.net James H. Bumgarner NYYYYYYY alanh@digital.net Alan Hensel YYYYYYYY godzilla@futuris.net Les Schaffer YYYYYYYY julesd@fwb.gulf.net Jules Dubois YYYYYYYY hardym@ibm.net Marc Hardy YYYYYYYY amesr@ican.net Robert Ames -------N rmh@interlaced.net Richard Hoskins YYYYYYYY kgreen@ionet.net Kevin Scott Green YYYYYYYY ct7@kaizen.net W. Craig Trader YYYYYYYY maus@li.net James Driscoll YYYNNNYY billrehm@nauticom.net Bill Rehm NYYYYYYY twl@netgate.net Theodore Leung YYYYYYYY kurtn@netrail.net Kurt Niemi YYYYYYYY birchall@email.njin.net Dan Birchall NNYYNNYY shrao@nyx.net Shrisha Rao -N------ wakelyn@pinn.net N. T. Wakelyn -------N chad@radix.net Chad Schrock YYYYYYYY dmoisan@shore.net David Moisan NYYYNNYY bkuhn@agnostic.smart.net Bradley M. Kuhn YYYNYNNY eespear@texas.net John Paul Spearman NNNNNNNN cdonaghe@texhoma.net Charles Donaghe YYYYYYYY lyrsa@mail.tiac.net Charles LaBrec YYYYYYYY wfp@tiac.net William F Phillips NNNNNNNN bc631@torfree.net Gabor Liptak YYYYYYYY mihai@west.net Mihai Christodorescu NNYYYNNY karl.wallner@x3network.net Karl Wallner YYYYYNNY geert@aie.nl Geert-Jan van Opdorp YYYYYYYY wimb@gld.bart.nl Wim Boot YYNYYNYY citroen@fgg.eur.nl Mieke Citroen YYYYYYYY harcoh@caos.kun.nl Harco de Hilster --NNNNNN mht@nuclint.nl Marc ter Horst YYYYYYYY cdlans@cs.ruu.nl Casper Lans YYYYYYYY lemmens@simplex.nl Arthur Lemmens YYYYYYYY bruin@tasking.nl Kees de Bruin YYYYYYYY roel.verbunt@tip.nl Roel Verbunt NYYYYYYY alfred@cas.et.tudelft.nl Alfred van der Hoeven NNNNNNNN petr@duttnxc.tn.tudelft.nl Peter Kocourek YYYYYYYY csaamw@urc.tue.nl Michiel Wijers NNNNNNNN berry@fwi.uva.nl Berry A.W. van Halderen YYYYYYYY rico@vpro.nl Rico Jansen YYYYYNNY birgit@West.NL Birgit Arkesteijn YYYYYNNN pgoedhar@xs4all.nl Peter T Goedhart YYYYYNYY ronvwier@xs4all.nl Ron van Wier YYYYYYYY arstokke@sn.no Petter E. Stokke YYYYYYYY steffent@stud.unit.no Steffen Thorsen YYYYYYYY Matthew.Sheppard@Comp.VUW.AC.NZ Matthew Sheppard NYYYNNNY tele@acm.org Patrick Seemann YYYYYYYY dummy@c2.org Robert Brown YYYYYYYY lvirden@cas.org Larry W. Virden NYNYNYNN buff@io.org William Denton YYYYYYYY cthuang@io.org Chin Huang YYNYYYNY muehlen@KidsHealth.org Ralf Muehlen YYNYYYNY johnm@mitchell.org John D. Mitchell YYNYYNNY brians@neri.org Brian Schuth YYNYYYNY williams@linux.nowhere.org Myles Williams YYYNYYYY ssd@nevets.oau.org Steven Dick NNNNNNNN br.mjc@rlg.org Michael Carroll YYNYYYNY doug@scn.org Charles Douglas Knechtel YYYYYYYY uwe@knus.tricbbs.fn.sub.org Uwe Storbeck YYYYYYYY luke@smd.smd.sublink.ORG Luciano Mannucci YYYYYYYY artur@flugor.if.uj.edu.pl Artur Pioro YYYYYYYY Nuno.Santos@inesc.pt Nuno Ferreira dos Santos YYYYYYYY sl.gonzaga@mail.telepac.pt Luis Gonzaga YYYYYYYY paf@di.uminho.pt Paulo Alexandre Ferreira YYYYYYYY zander@cnext.crec.mipt.ru Aleksey Sudakov YYYYYYYY qtxstao@aom.ericsson.se Olivier Stalder YYYYYYYY Raphael.Quinet@eed.ericsson.se Raphael Quinet -YY-Y--Y eraxhal@era-t.ericsson.se Hans Hall NYNYYYYY pivar@fief.se Peter Ivarsson YYYYYYYY ei9418@el.haninge.kth.se Niklas Angare YYNYYYNY Johan.Dahl@ling.lu.se Johan Dahl YYYYYYYY tw@sics.se Tommy Wallo YYYYYYYY martin.wickman@mailbox.swipnet.se Martin Wickman YYYYYYYN jan.djarv@mbox200.swipnet.se Jan Djärv YYYYYYYY perfry@got.wmdata.se Per Frykenvall YYYYYYYY uad@got.wmdata.se Ulf Almehed YYYYYYYY v10lyj@v0sun2.ccl.itri.org.tw Yi-Jian Lee YYYYYYYY alan.macdonald@brunel.ac.uk Alan MacDonald YYYYYYYY ijackson@chiark.chu.cam.ac.uk Ian Jackson NNNNNNNN dpg1001@cam.ac.uk Duncan Grisby YYYYYYYY G.J.Baker@dl.ac.uk Gareth J Baker YYYYYYYY rbk@icbl.hw.ac.uk Richard Kirby YYYYYYYY hjs@doc.ic.ac.uk Henry J. Story YYYYYYYY athula@cs.keele.ac.uk A. Herath YYYYYYYY dmn@comp.lancs.ac.uk David Nichols YYYYYYYY s.c.fitch@open.ac.uk Stephen C. Fitch YYYYYYYY david.hopwood@lady-margaret-hall.oxford.ac.uk David Hopwood YYYYYYYY J.G.B.Steel@qmw.ac.uk John G B Steel YYYYYYYY john@galton.ucl.ac.uk John Attwood YYYYYYYY twh101@mailer.york.ac.uk Tom Hukins YYYYYYYY rupertl@actix.co.uk Rupert Lloyd YYYYYYYN dseal@armltd.co.uk David Seal -Y--Y-YY quentin@cam-orl.co.uk Quentin Stafford-Fraser YYYYYYYY jcansdale@cix.compulink.co.uk Jamie Cansdale YYYYYYYY tayerst@cix.compulink.co.uk Tom Ayerst YYYYYYYY david@cyba.co.uk David H Parry YYYYYYYY sandy@almide.demon.co.uk Alexander Anderson NNNNNNNN tim@angles.demon.co.uk Tim Joyce YYYYYYYY john@brock.demon.co.uk John Brockett YYYYNYNN ian@dungeon.demon.co.uk Ian Kershaw YYYYYYYY kevin@fairbruk.demon.co.uk Kevin Blackburn YYYYYYYY rjs@ferroday.demon.co.uk Robert Swindells YYYYYYYY rich@galacta.demon.co.uk Dr. Rich Artym YYYYYYYY niall@hedgehog.demon.co.uk Niall Teasdale YYYYYNYY akima@ocharu.demon.co.uk Akima Umezawa YYYNYYNN dsmcf@sc3d.demon.co.uk Donald McFarlane YYNYYYNN rick@stones.demon.co.uk Rick Stones YYYYYYYY MIKEH@tynetec.demon.co.uk Mike Hirst YYYYYYYN zakalwe@vision25.demon.co.uk Philip Hunt YYYYYYY- tonymo@dmv.co.uk Tony Mountifield YYYYYYYY john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk John Hayes YYYYYYYY blue@ftech.co.uk Leigh Caldwell YYYNYYYY markt@harlequin.co.uk Mark Tillotson YYYYYYYY D.J.Walker-Morgan@micromuse.co.uk D.J.Walker Morgan YYYYYYYN jback@mpc-data.co.uk Julian Back YYYYYYYY bernardh@nildram.co.uk Bernard Michael Hurley YYYYYYYY M.R.Atkinson@nortel.co.uk Mike Atkinson YYYYYYYY davidw@parallax.co.uk David Wilkinson YYYYYYYY John.Cooke@parallax.co.uk John Cooke YYYYYYYY rolf@parallax.co.uk Rolf Howarth NYNNNNNN nshaylor@tcp.co.uk Nik Shaylor YYYYYYYY alan.ralph@ukonline.co.uk Alan Ralph YY-YYY-Y David.Gunn@econsoft.wintermute.co.uk David Gunn YYYYYYYY trevor.may@zetnet.co.uk Trevor May YYYYYYYY arkc@charterhouse.surrey.sch.uk Tony Clayton YYYYYYYY harold@driscoll.chi.il.us Harold A. Driscoll YYYYYYYY Invalid ballots --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ga_lewis@cs.utas.edu.au Glenn Lewis ! No votemark in ballot lgarcia@inf.ufrgs.br Luis Fernando Fortes Garcia ! No votemark in ballot doliov@statsol.com Stephan B. Doliov ! No votemark in ballot R2BKM@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU ! No votemark in ballot jbauer@jbauer Jeff Bauer ! Invalid address ram@lotus Ram Kalapatapu ! Invalid address bthompson@enterprise.net Ben Thompson ! No votemark in ballot adrianh@oneworld.co.uk Adrian Howard ! No vote statement in message -- Jan Isley | Running UseVote 3. votes to: | Powered by FreeBSD From linden@sun.com Mon Feb 3 20:51:58 1997 Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back From: linden@sun.com (Peter van der Linden) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.lang.java.misc,comp.lang.java.api,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.java.setup,comp.lang.java.tech,comp.lang.java.advocacy Subject: RFD: comp.lang.java.* reorganization Followup-To: news.groups Message-ID: <855009444.12139@isc.org> Organization: . Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org Archive-Name: comp.lang.java-reorg Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 22:37:24 GMT Lines: 348 Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:3 REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) unmoderated group comp.lang.java.databases unmoderated group comp.lang.java.softwaretools unmoderated group comp.lang.java.help (renames comp.lang.java.setup) unmoderated group comp.lang.java.machine (renames comp.lang.java.tech) REMOVE comp.lang.java.misc (renamed to comp.lang.java.programmer) REMOVE comp.lang.java.api (renamed to comp.lang.java.programmer) This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for a reorganization of the comp.lang.java.* hierarchy. This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time. Procedural details are below. The newsgroup lines and charters include the unmodified groups comp.lang.java.announce and comp.lang.java.security in order to make this RFD a survey of comp.lang.java.* after the proposed reorganization. The charters for these two groups are not changed except for two minor corrections in the .security charter. Newsgroup lines: comp.lang.java.databases Databases, java.sql, JDBC, ODBC. comp.lang.java.help Set-up problems, catch-all first aid. comp.lang.java.machine JVM, native methods, hardware. comp.lang.java.softwaretools IDEs, browsers, compilers, other tools. Existing groups which will remain: comp.lang.java.announce Java-related announcements. (Moderated) comp.lang.java.advocacy Discussion of opinions on Java. comp.lang.java.programmer Language, APIs not covered elsewhere. comp.lang.java.security Access, encryption, security protocols. RATIONALE: all groups There are two main reasons we need a reorganization: too much cross-posting and too much misposting. In addition we want to add a couple of groups for discussing emerging areas of Java technology (databases and software tools). Cross-posting is now so common in the comp.lang.java.hierarchy that it defeats the purpose of separate groups. One reason for widespread cross posting is a lack of meaning in the existing newsgroup names. When no obvious group suggests itself, posters naturally select several possible ones. The results tend to blur group definition and reduce the visibility of other articles. Posting to the wrong group is the other half of the problem. Besides making on-topic articles hard to find, this practice in turn encourages cross-posting from others who find their topic of interest unfolding on several groups. In other words, cross-posting and misposting reinforce one another. Only the truly enthusiastic read the charters when trying to decide which group to post to. As a result newsgroup names really need to be very descriptive of their charter, so posters can make their decision based on the name. The present comp.lang.java hierarchy fails to meet this standard. This new RFD doesn't try to create a perfect and unambiguous group structure (assuming such a thing exists). Rather, the aim is to bring ambiguity down to an acceptable level by creating a group structure that is more easily understood, and that can be expanded in a natural way when the need arises. The normal practice should be that most articles are posted to one single, correct group. We think the changes proposed will provide this result. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.misc The proposal merges the .misc group back into comp.lang.java.programmer. The charter for this group specifically excludes questions relating to Java as a programming language - a point that is lost on all but a few of the posters. The charter is, however, unclear as to which topics clj.misc is meant to cover, just saying effectively "everything else". We therefore propose to remove this group. The articles that legitimately belong here can easily be accommodated by .advocacy, clj.machine and .softwaretools. Partly as a consequence of this, the charter for .advocacy is modified to mark it out more clearly as the default group for nontechnical and nonprogramming issues. Many articles on .misc are still addressed to comp.lang.java. These will from now on be forwarded to comp.lang.java.programmer. The May 1996 reorganization of the comp.lang.java.* hierarchy noted that comp.lang.java.misc was "one of the two best candidates for a no vote" I.e. for not being created in the first place. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.api The proposal merges this group back into comp.lang.java.programmer. The charters for .api and .programmer make an unfortunate distinction between application programming interfaces and language features. These issues are hard to separate and cross-posting is the main result of this. Since articles relating to language features only are not very numerous at present, we propose to merge these two groups into comp.lang.java.programmer. The charter for .programmer is revised to include the content of .api except application programming covered under other groups. The May 1996 reorganization of the comp.lang.java.* hierarchy noted that comp.lang.java.api was "one of the two best candidates for a no vote" I.e. for not being created in the first place. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.help The proposal renames .setup to .help Many HELP ME articles are hard to classify in terms of Java newsgroup and are therefore arbitrarily posted all over comp.lang.java.*. Extending the scope of .setup to include general first aid and renaming it to .help will resolve these two problems. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.machine This group is renamed from .tech to .machine mainly in order to offer a more descriptive name to people who believe that any programming problem is a "technical" problem. In addition, some hardware issues will inevitably be discussed on comp.lang.java.*, and grouping these with the Java virtual machine and native methods seems the most natural choice. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.databases The proposal adds a group for Java and databases. Database access using Java and the Java DataBase Connectivity libraries is a growing topic of interest in the Java hierarchy. We propose a separate group for these issues. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.softwaretools The proposal adds a group for software tools relating to Java. Software tools - e.g. Integrated Development Environments (IDEs), browsers, compilers, JDK tools, etc. - are already a major topic. We propose to create this group in order to relieve other groups and eliminate cross-posting of such articles. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.security The two lines in the current charter o public-key encryption and authentication of classes (not yet implemented) are updated to the one line: o public-key encryption and authentication of classes to remove a limitation that is not expected to long be current. The term "access specifiers" is corrected to "access control". CHARTER: all groups The normal practice should be that most articles are posted to one single, correct group ONLY. Cross-posting is only appropriate when the problem is hard to categorize or when it legitimately concerns more than one group. Answers should be posted to a single group only once the nature of the problem has been ascertained. Many articles of this sort should go to comp.lang.java.help (only). It is not appropriate to post binary class files or long (longer than one or two screenfuls) source listings on any of these groups. Instead, the post should reference a WWW or FTP site (short source snippets to demonstrate a particular point or problem are fine). END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.advocacy This unmoderated group is for articles supporting or criticizing Java, for discussion of its position in the marketplace, the future potential of Java and all other issues that are primarily opinions about Java. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.announce This moderated, low-volume group is for Java-related announcements, including: o new releases of software (compilers, development kits, browsers, etc.) o new publicly accessible applets o events (user group meetings, conferences, etc.) o new packages or announcements of official specification changes. This is not a discussion group (posts that are likely to generate discussion should have follow-ups set to one of the other Java groups). Moderation policy: The intent of moderation is to ensure this is a low-noise group, and to prevent excessive advertising by any single company. Posts announcing commercial products are acceptable, providing they are kept to a reasonable frequency. END CHARTER. MODERATOR INFO: comp.lang.java.announce Moderator: Urban Mueller Article submission address: java-mod@relog.ch Administrative contact address: java-mod@relog.ch END MODERATOR INFO. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.databases This unmoderated group is for any and all discussion relating to database access in Java. This includes the standard packages JDBC and JDBC-ODBC, as well as third party products with similar functions. Questions about ODBC (Object DataBase Connectivity) or other database concepts are appropriate to the extent that they have a reasonable connection with Java programming. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.help This unmoderated group is for immediate help on any Java problem, especially when the source of the difficulty is hard to pin down in terms of topics treated on other groups. This is the appropriate group for end-users, programmers and administrators who are having difficulty installing a system capable of running Java applets or programs. It is also the right group for people trying to check their understanding of something in the language, or to troubleshoot something simple. Subject lines should include the platform that the problem occurs on, and the browser or compiler version, e.g. [win95 netscape 2.0], [linux hotjava 1.0 beta2], etc. This group renames comp.lang.java.setup. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.machine This unmoderated group is for all aspects of Java technology that are below the level of the Java source language. This is mostly the virtual machine, its implementation, bytecodes, class file format, performance and optimization, possible extensions, porting, etc. Questions about Java hardware or the suitability of computers and operating systems for use with Java are also appropriate. Users should post here about compiling other languages into Java bytecodes, or problems with native methods. This group renames comp.lang.java.tech. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.programmer This unmoderated group is for problems and discussion relating to Java as a language, programming in general and the application of libraries and APIs not covered under other groups. If traffic is high enough, this group may later be split functionally. In the meantime, posts specific to a class or package should include its name at the beginning of the title, for example, [awt], [sun.net], etc., to facilitate easy filtering. This group merges (renames) comp.lang.java.misc, comp.lang.java.api into the already existing comp.lang.java.programmer group. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.security This unmoderated group is for questions and discussion concerning any of Java's security layers: o algorithmic checks on bytecode o run-time checks on executing programs o access control and package boundaries o security managers and class loaders o public-key encryption and authentication of classes o use of secure protocols such as Secure Sockets Layer (SSL). and for possible changes or extensions to the security architecture. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.softwaretools This unmoderated group is for problems and discussion relating to development tools for Java programming. This includes Integrated Development Environments (IDEs), Internet browsers, compilers, decompilers, debuggers, editors, and other software tools. END CHARTER. PROCEDURE: This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For Votes (CFV) will be posted by a neutral vote taker. Please do not attempt to vote until this happens. In accordance with established Usenet practice, all discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups. In addition the proponents undertake to post to a weekly summary of the proposal status to the newsgroups affected. This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any questions about the process. DISTRIBUTION: This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, comp.lang.java.misc, comp.lang.java.api, comp.lang.java.programmer, comp.lang.java.setup, comp.lang.java.tech, comp.lang.java.advocacy There is a 200 character limit on the newsgroups line, so the RFD will be posted separately to these newsgroups after it appears in news.announce.newgroups: comp.lang.java.security, comp.lang.java.announce Proponent: Peter van der Linden Proponent: Alexander Anderson Proponent: Emma Kolstad Antunes Proponent: Roedy Green Proponent: Marty Hall Proponent: Carl Johnson Proponent: David Karr Proponent: Tore Lund Proponent: George Paci Proponent: Thomas Poff Proponent: Jeremy Rosenberger Proponent: Kent Sandvik Proponent: D'Arcy Smith Mentor: early advice from Russ Allbery eagle@cyclone.Stanford.EDU -- Peter van der Linden linden%nospam@eng.sun.com http://www.best.com/~pvdl "Dereference misaligned, then cuss. Cause an error on the bus" From linden@sun.com Wed Feb 19 13:58:11 1997 Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back From: linden@sun.com (Peter van der Linden) Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.lang.java.setup,comp.lang.java.tech,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.java.misc,comp.lang.java.api,comp.lang.java.advocacy Subject: 2nd RFD: comp.lang.java.* reorganization Followup-To: news.groups Message-ID: <856389216.4287@isc.org> Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org Archive-Name: comp.lang.java-reorg Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:53:37 GMT Lines: 396 Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:83 REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) unmoderated group comp.lang.java.gui unmoderated group comp.lang.java.beans unmoderated group comp.lang.java.databases unmoderated group comp.lang.java.softwaretools unmoderated group comp.lang.java.help (renames comp.lang.java.setup) unmoderated group comp.lang.java.machine (renames comp.lang.java.tech) REMOVE comp.lang.java.misc (renamed to comp.lang.java.programmer) REMOVE comp.lang.java.api (renamed to comp.lang.java.programmer) This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for a reorganization of the comp.lang.java.* hierarchy. This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time. Procedural details are below. The newsgroup lines and charters include the unmodified groups comp.lang.java.announce and comp.lang.java.security in order to make this RFD a survey of comp.lang.java.* after the proposed reorganization. The charters for these two groups are not changed except for two minor corrections in the .security charter. CHANGES from previous RFD: Based on the response to the initial RFD, this (the 2nd RFD) proposes two additional groups, namely .beans and .gui. There are no other changes from the first RFD. Newsgroup lines: comp.lang.java.beans Java software components (JavaBeans) comp.lang.java.databases Databases, java.sql, JDBC, ODBC. comp.lang.java.gui GUI toolkits and windowing: AWT, IFC etc. comp.lang.java.help Set-up problems, catch-all first aid. comp.lang.java.machine JVM, native methods, hardware. comp.lang.java.softwaretools IDEs, browsers, compilers, other tools. Existing, unchanged group names: comp.lang.java.announce Java-related announcements (moderated). comp.lang.java.advocacy Discussion of opinions on Java. comp.lang.java.programmer Language, APIs not covered elsewhere. comp.lang.java.security Access, encryption, security protocols. RATIONALE: all groups There are two main reasons we need a reorganization: too much cross-posting and too much misposting. In addition we want to add a couple of groups for discussing emerging areas of Java technology (databases and software tools). Cross-posting is now so common in the comp.lang.java.hierarchy that it defeats the purpose of separate groups. One reason for widespread cross posting is a lack of meaning in the existing newsgroup names. When no obvious group suggests itself, posters naturally select several possible ones. The results tend to blur group definition and reduce the visibility of other articles. Posting to the wrong group is the other half of the problem. Besides making on-topic articles hard to find, this practice in turn encourages cross-posting from others who find their topic of interest unfolding on several groups. In other words, cross-posting and misposting reinforce one another. Only the truly enthusiastic read the charters when trying to decide which group to post to. As a result newsgroup names really need to be very descriptive of their charter, so posters can make their decision based on the name. The present comp.lang.java hierarchy fails to meet this standard. This new RFD doesn't try to create a perfect and unambiguous group structure (assuming such a thing exists). Rather, the aim is to bring ambiguity down to an acceptable level by creating a group structure that is more easily understood, and that can be expanded in a natural way when the need arises. The normal practice should be that most articles are posted to one single, correct group. We think the changes proposed will provide this result. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.misc The proposal merges the .misc group back into comp.lang.java.programmer. The charter for this group specifically excludes questions relating to Java as a programming language - a point that is lost on all but a few of the posters. The charter is, however, unclear as to which topics clj.misc is meant to cover, just saying effectively "everything else". We therefore propose to remove this group. The articles that legitimately belong here can easily be accommodated by .advocacy, clj.machine and .softwaretools. Partly as a consequence of this, the charter for .advocacy is modified to mark it out more clearly as the default group for nontechnical and nonprogramming issues. Many articles on .misc are still addressed to comp.lang.java. These will from now on be forwarded to comp.lang.java.programmer. The May 1996 reorganization of the comp.lang.java.* hierarchy noted that comp.lang.java.misc was "one of the two best candidates for a no vote" I.e. for not being created in the first place. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.api The proposal merges this group back into comp.lang.java.programmer. The charters for .api and .programmer make an unfortunate distinction between application programming interfaces and language features. These issues are hard to separate and cross-posting is the main result of this. Since articles relating to language features only are not very numerous at present, we propose to merge these two groups into comp.lang.java.programmer. The charter for .programmer is revised to include the content of .api except application programming covered under other groups. The May 1996 reorganization of the comp.lang.java.* hierarchy noted that comp.lang.java.api was "one of the two best candidates for a no vote" I.e. for not being created in the first place. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.help The proposal renames .setup to .help Many HELP ME articles are hard to classify in terms of Java newsgroup and are therefore arbitrarily posted all over comp.lang.java.*. Extending the scope of .setup to include general first aid and renaming it to .help will resolve these two problems. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.machine This group is renamed from .tech to .machine mainly in order to offer a more descriptive name to people who believe that any programming problem is a "technical" problem. In addition, some hardware issues will inevitably be discussed on comp.lang.java.*, and grouping these with the Java virtual machine and native methods seems the most natural choice. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.beans The proposal adds a group for Java software components. Software components form an area of expanding interest, and this group is being formed to give a more public expression to the current JavaBeans mailing list that has several hundred subscribers. [BEANS-USERS@javasoft.com] RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.gui The proposal adds a group for postings related to the GUI framework and window toolkits in Java. This topic is one of the highest volume topics in the comp.lang.java.programmer hierarchy, and giving it a separate group will considerably lessen the volume in .programmer, as well as making it simpler for those who wish to focus on windows issues. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.databases The proposal adds a group for Java and databases. Database access using Java and the Java DataBase Connectivity libraries is a growing topic of interest in the Java hierarchy. We propose a separate group for these issues. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.softwaretools The proposal adds a group for software tools relating to Java. Software tools - e.g. Integrated Development Environments (IDEs), browsers, compilers, JDK tools, etc. - are already a major topic. We propose to create this group in order to relieve other groups and eliminate cross-posting of such articles. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.security The two lines in the current charter o public-key encryption and authentication of classes (not yet implemented) are updated to the one line: o public-key encryption and authentication of classes to remove a limitation that is not expected to long be current. The term "access specifiers" is corrected to "access control". CHARTER: all groups The normal practice should be that most articles are posted to one single, correct group ONLY. Cross-posting is only appropriate when the problem is hard to categorize or when it legitimately concerns more than one group. Answers should be posted to a single group only once the nature of the problem has been ascertained. Many articles of this sort should go to comp.lang.java.help (only). It is not appropriate to post binary class files or long (longer than one or two screenfuls) source listings on any of these groups. Instead, the post should reference a WWW or FTP site (short source snippets to demonstrate a particular point or problem are fine). END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.advocacy This unmoderated group is for articles supporting or criticizing Java, for discussion of its position in the marketplace, the future potential of Java and all other issues that are primarily opinions about Java. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.announce This moderated, low-volume group is for Java-related announcements, including: o new releases of software (compilers, development kits, browsers, etc.) o new publicly accessible applets o events (user group meetings, conferences, etc.) o new packages or announcements of official specification changes. This is not a discussion group (posts that are likely to generate discussion should have follow-ups set to one of the other Java groups). Moderation policy: The intent of moderation is to ensure this is a low-noise group, and to prevent excessive advertising by any single company. Posts announcing commercial products are acceptable, providing they are kept to a reasonable frequency. END CHARTER. MODERATOR INFO: comp.lang.java.announce Moderator: Urban Mueller Article submission address: java-mod@relog.ch Administrative contact address: java-mod@relog.ch END MODERATOR INFO. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.beans This unmoderated group is for any and all discussion relating to JavaBeans and software components in Java. This includes the relationship of Java to platform-dependent component frameworks such as Microsoft's OLE (ActiveX) and portable but non-Java frameworks such as Apple's OpenDoc. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.databases This unmoderated group is for any and all discussion relating to database access in Java. This includes the standard packages JDBC and JDBC-ODBC, as well as third party products with similar functions. Questions about ODBC (Object DataBase Connectivity) or other database concepts are appropriate to the extent that they have a reasonable connection with Java programming. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.gui This unmoderated group is for any and all discussion relating to GUI toolkits or window frameworks in Java. Topics include the AWT, Netscape's IFC, Microsoft's planned AFC, Visix's Vibe toolkit, among others. The newsgroup will also be the appropriate place for discussion of the JDK event model, mouse and keyboard issues, bugs in windowing code, and graphics programming in Java. If it concerns something that can be seen on the screen, it belongs in this group. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.help This unmoderated group is for immediate help on any Java problem, especially when the source of the difficulty is hard to pin down in terms of topics treated on other groups. This is the appropriate group for end-users, programmers and administrators who are having difficulty installing a system capable of running Java applets or programs. It is also the right group for people trying to check their understanding of something in the language, or to troubleshoot something simple. Subject lines should include the platform that the problem occurs on, and the browser or compiler version, e.g. [win95 netscape 2.0], [linux hotjava 1.0 beta2], etc. This group renames comp.lang.java.setup. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.machine This unmoderated group is for all aspects of Java technology that are below the level of the Java source language. This is mostly the virtual machine, its implementation, bytecodes, class file format, performance and optimization, possible extensions, porting, etc. Questions about Java hardware or the suitability of computers and operating systems for use with Java are also appropriate. Users should post here about compiling other languages into Java bytecodes, or problems with native methods. This group renames comp.lang.java.tech. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.programmer This unmoderated group is for problems and discussion relating to Java as a language, programming in general and the application of libraries and APIs not covered under other groups. If traffic is high enough, this group may later be split functionally. In the meantime, posts specific to a class or package should include its name at the beginning of the title, for example, [awt], [sun.net], etc., to facilitate easy filtering. This group merges (renames) comp.lang.java.misc, comp.lang.java.api into the already existing comp.lang.java.programmer group. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.security This unmoderated group is for questions and discussion concerning any of Java's security layers: o algorithmic checks on bytecode o run-time checks on executing programs o access control and package boundaries o security managers and class loaders o public-key encryption and authentication of classes o use of secure protocols such as Secure Sockets Layer (SSL). and for possible changes or extensions to the security architecture. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.softwaretools This unmoderated group is for problems and discussion relating to development tools for Java programming. This includes Integrated Development Environments (IDEs), Internet browsers, compilers, decompilers, debuggers, editors, and other software tools. END CHARTER. PROCEDURE: This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For Votes (CFV) will be posted by a neutral vote taker. Please do not attempt to vote until this happens. In accordance with established Usenet practice, all discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups. In addition the proponents undertake to post to a weekly summary of the proposal status to the newsgroups affected. This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any questions about the process. DISTRIBUTION: This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, comp.lang.java.misc, comp.lang.java.api, comp.lang.java.programmer, comp.lang.java.setup, comp.lang.java.tech, comp.lang.java.advocacy There is a 200 character limit on the newsgroups line, so the RFD will be posted separately to these newsgroups after it appears in news.announce.newgroups: comp.lang.java.security, comp.lang.java.announce Proponent: Peter van der Linden Proponent: Alexander Anderson Proponent: Emma Kolstad Antunes Proponent: Roedy Green Proponent: Marty Hall Proponent: Carl Johnson Proponent: David Karr Proponent: Tore Lund Proponent: George Paci Proponent: Thomas Poff Proponent: Jeremy Rosenberger Proponent: Kent Sandvik Proponent: D'Arcy Smith Mentor: early advice from Russ Allbery eagle@cyclone.Stanford.EDU -- Peter van der Linden linden%nospam@eng.sun.com http://www.best.com/~pvdl "Dereference misaligned, then cuss. Cause an error on the bus" From jpatokal@alpha.hut.fi Wed Mar 19 11:30:08 1997 Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back From: Jani Patokallio Reply-To: voting@hut.fi Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.lang.java.api,comp.lang.java.misc,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.java.security,comp.lang.java.setup,comp.lang.java.tech Subject: CFV: comp.lang.java.* reorganization Followup-To: poster Message-ID: <858799226.21859@isc.org> Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org Expires: 10 Apr 1997 00:00:00 GMT Archive-Name: comp.lang.java-reorg Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 19:20:27 GMT Lines: 350 Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:219 FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2) unmoderated group comp.lang.java.gui unmoderated group comp.lang.java.beans unmoderated group comp.lang.java.databases unmoderated group comp.lang.java.softwaretools unmoderated group comp.lang.java.help (renames comp.lang.java.setup) unmoderated group comp.lang.java.machine (renames comp.lang.java.tech) REMOVE comp.lang.java.misc (renamed to comp.lang.java.programmer) REMOVE comp.lang.java.api (renamed to comp.lang.java.programmer) Newsgroups lines: comp.lang.java.beans Java software components (JavaBeans). comp.lang.java.databases Databases, java.sql, JDBC, ODBC. comp.lang.java.gui GUI toolkits and windowing: AWT, IFC etc. comp.lang.java.help Set-up problems, catch-all first aid. comp.lang.java.machine JVM, native methods, hardware. comp.lang.java.softwaretools IDEs, browsers, compilers, other tools. Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 9 Apr 1997. This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent. Proponent: Peter van der Linden Proponent: Alexander Anderson Proponent: Emma Kolstad Antunes Proponent: Roedy Green Proponent: Marty Hall Proponent: Carl Johnson Proponent: David Karr Proponent: Tore Lund Proponent: George Paci Proponent: Thomas Poff Proponent: Jeremy Rosenberger Proponent: Kent Sandvik Proponent: D'Arcy Smith Mentor: Russ Allbery Votetaker: Jani Patokallio RATIONALE: all groups There are two main reasons we need a reorganization: too much cross-posting and too much misposting. In addition we want to add a couple of groups for discussing emerging areas of Java technology (databases and software tools). Cross-posting is now so common in the comp.lang.java.hierarchy that it defeats the purpose of separate groups. One reason for widespread cross posting is a lack of meaning in the existing newsgroup names. When no obvious group suggests itself, posters naturally select several possible ones. The results tend to blur group definition and reduce the visibility of other articles. Posting to the wrong group is the other half of the problem. Besides making on-topic articles hard to find, this practice in turn encourages cross-posting from others who find their topic of interest unfolding on several groups. In other words, cross-posting and misposting reinforce one another. Only the truly enthusiastic read the charters when trying to decide which group to post to. As a result newsgroup names really need to be very descriptive of their charter, so posters can make their decision based on the name. The present comp.lang.java hierarchy fails to meet this standard. This new RFD doesn't try to create a perfect and unambiguous group structure (assuming such a thing exists). Rather, the aim is to bring ambiguity down to an acceptable level by creating a group structure that is more easily understood, and that can be expanded in a natural way when the need arises. The normal practice should be that most articles are posted to one single, correct group. We think the changes proposed will provide this result. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.beans The proposal adds a group for Java software components. Software components form an area of expanding interest, and this group is being formed to give a more public expression to the current JavaBeans mailing list that has several hundred subscribers. [BEANS-USERS@javasoft.com] RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.databases The proposal adds a group for Java and databases. Database access using Java and the Java DataBase Connectivity libraries is a growing topic of interest in the Java hierarchy. We propose a separate group for these issues. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.gui The proposal adds a group for postings related to the GUI framework and window toolkits in Java. This topic is one of the highest volume topics in the comp.lang.java.programmer hierarchy, and giving it a separate group will considerably lessen the volume in .programmer, as well as making it simpler for those who wish to focus on windows issues. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.help The proposal renames .setup to .help Many HELP ME articles are hard to classify in terms of Java newsgroup and are therefore arbitrarily posted all over comp.lang.java.*. Extending the scope of .setup to include general first aid and renaming it to .help will resolve these two problems. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.machine This group is renamed from .tech to .machine mainly in order to offer a more descriptive name to people who believe that any programming problem is a "technical" problem. In addition, some hardware issues will inevitably be discussed on comp.lang.java.*, and grouping these with the Java virtual machine and native methods seems the most natural choice. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.programmer The proposal merges the .misc group back into comp.lang.java.programmer. The charter for this group specifically excludes questions relating to Java as a programming language - a point that is lost on all but a few of the posters. The charter is, however, unclear as to which topics clj.misc is meant to cover, just saying effectively "everything else". We therefore propose to remove this group. The articles that legitimately belong here can easily be accommodated by .advocacy, clj.machine and .softwaretools. Partly as a consequence of this, the charter for .advocacy is modified to mark it out more clearly as the default group for nontechnical and nonprogramming issues. Many articles on .misc are still addressed to comp.lang.java. These will from now on be forwarded to comp.lang.java.programmer. The May 1996 reorganization of the comp.lang.java.* hierarchy noted that comp.lang.java.misc was "one of the two best candidates for a no vote" I.e. for not being created in the first place. The proposal merges the .api group back into comp.lang.java.programmer. The charters for .api and .programmer make an unfortunate distinction between application programming interfaces and language features. These issues are hard to separate and cross-posting is the main result of this. Since articles relating to language features only are not very numerous at present, we propose to merge these two groups into comp.lang.java.programmer. The charter for .programmer is revised to include the content of .api except application programming covered under other groups. The May 1996 reorganization of the comp.lang.java.* hierarchy noted that comp.lang.java.api was "one of the two best candidates for a no vote" I.e. for not being created in the first place. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.softwaretools The proposal adds a group for software tools relating to Java. Software tools - e.g. Integrated Development Environments (IDEs), browsers, compilers, JDK tools, etc. - are already a major topic. We propose to create this group in order to relieve other groups and eliminate cross-posting of such articles. CHARTER: all groups The normal practice should be that most articles are posted to one single, correct group ONLY. Cross-posting is only appropriate when the problem is hard to categorize or when it legitimately concerns more than one group. Answers should be posted to a single group only once the nature of the problem has been ascertained. Many articles of this sort should go to comp.lang.java.help (only). It is not appropriate to post binary class files or long (longer than one or two screenfuls) source listings on any of these groups. Instead, the post should reference a WWW or FTP site (short source snippets to demonstrate a particular point or problem are fine). END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.beans This unmoderated group is for any and all discussion relating to JavaBeans and software components in Java. This includes the relationship of Java to platform-dependent component frameworks such as Microsoft's OLE (ActiveX) and portable but non-Java frameworks such as Apple's OpenDoc. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.databases This unmoderated group is for any and all discussion relating to database access in Java. This includes the standard packages JDBC and JDBC-ODBC, as well as third party products with similar functions. Questions about ODBC (Object DataBase Connectivity) or other database concepts are appropriate to the extent that they have a reasonable connection with Java programming. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.gui This unmoderated group is for any and all discussion relating to GUI toolkits or window frameworks in Java. Topics include the AWT, Netscape's IFC, Microsoft's planned AFC, Visix's Vibe toolkit, among others. The newsgroup will also be the appropriate place for discussion of the JDK event model, mouse and keyboard issues, bugs in windowing code, and graphics programming in Java. If it concerns something that can be seen on the screen, it belongs in this group. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.help This unmoderated group is for immediate help on any Java problem, especially when the source of the difficulty is hard to pin down in terms of topics treated on other groups. This is the appropriate group for end-users, programmers and administrators who are having difficulty installing a system capable of running Java applets or programs. It is also the right group for people trying to check their understanding of something in the language, or to troubleshoot something simple. Subject lines should include the platform that the problem occurs on, and the browser or compiler version, e.g. [win95 netscape 2.0], [linux hotjava 1.0 beta2], etc. This group renames comp.lang.java.setup. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.machine This unmoderated group is for all aspects of Java technology that are below the level of the Java source language. This is mostly the virtual machine, its implementation, bytecodes, class file format, performance and optimization, possible extensions, porting, etc. Questions about Java hardware or the suitability of computers and operating systems for use with Java are also appropriate. Users should post here about compiling other languages into Java bytecodes, or problems with native methods. This group renames comp.lang.java.tech. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.programmer This unmoderated group is for problems and discussion relating to Java as a language, programming in general and the application of libraries and APIs not covered under other groups. If traffic is high enough, this group may later be split functionally. In the meantime, posts specific to a class or package should include its name at the beginning of the title, for example, [awt], [sun.net], etc., to facilitate easy filtering. This group merges (renames) comp.lang.java.misc, comp.lang.java.api into the already existing comp.lang.java.programmer group. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.softwaretools This unmoderated group is for problems and discussion relating to development tools for Java programming. This includes Integrated Development Environments (IDEs), Internet browsers, compilers, decompilers, debuggers, editors, and other software tools. END CHARTER. HOW TO VOTE: * Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines. Don't worry about the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your reply inserts. Please, DO NOT send the entire CFV back to me! * Mark the ballot and then MAIL it to: < voting@hut.fi > Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line. * In order to properly record your vote, please provide your REAL NAME and indicate your desired vote in the appropriate locations inside the ballot. * Examples of how to properly indicate your vote: [ YES ] example.yes.vote [ NO ] example.no.vote [ ABSTAIN ] example.abstention [ CANCEL ] example.cancellation * DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot! If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot. ======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line ======= .----------------------------------------------------------------------- | 1ST CALL FOR VOTES: comp.lang.java reorganization | Official Usenet Voting Ballot (Do not remove this line!) |----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected. Place | ONLY your name (ie. do NOT include your e-mail address or any other | information; ONLY your name) after the colon on the following line: Voter name: | Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each | newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name): Your Vote Newsgroup --------- ----------------------------------------------------------- [ ] comp.lang.java.beans [ ] comp.lang.java.databases [ ] comp.lang.java.gui [ ] comp.lang.java.help [ ] comp.lang.java.machine [ ] comp.lang.java.programmer [ ] comp.lang.java.softwaretools ======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ============== IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: Standard Guidelines for voting apply. One person, one vote. Votes must be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker. Anonymous, forwarded or proxy votes are not valid. Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI forms are considered to be anonymous votes. Vote counting is automated. Failure to follow these directions may mean that your vote does not get counted. If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the votetaker about the problem. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly. Duplicate votes are resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote. Addresses and votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results post. The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest of persons who would read a proposed newsgroup. Soliciting votes from disinterested parties defeats this purpose. Please do not distribute this CFV. If you must, direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups. Distributing pre-marked or otherwise edited copies of this CFV is generally considered to be vote fraud. When in doubt, ask the votetaker. DISTRIBUTION: Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be posted in these groups: comp.lang.java.advocacy This CFV was created with uvpq 1.0beta (Mar 2 1997). PQ datestamp: 970221 -- Voting address : voting@hut.fi Voting information: http://www.hut.fi/~jpatokal/uvv/ From jpatokal@alpha.hut.fi Sat Mar 29 06:15:46 1997 Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back From: Jani Patokallio Reply-To: voting@hut.fi Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.lang.java.api,comp.lang.java.misc,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.java.security,comp.lang.java.setup,comp.lang.java.tech Subject: 2nd CFV: comp.lang.java.* reorganization Followup-To: poster Message-ID: <859644028.3885@isc.org> Supersedes: <858799226.21859@isc.org> Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org Expires: 10 Apr 1997 00:00:00 GMT Archive-Name: comp.lang.java-reorg Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 14:00:28 GMT Lines: 357 Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:240 LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2) unmoderated group comp.lang.java.beans unmoderated group comp.lang.java.databases unmoderated group comp.lang.java.gui unmoderated group comp.lang.java.softwaretools unmoderated group comp.lang.java.help (renames comp.lang.java.setup) unmoderated group comp.lang.java.machine (renames comp.lang.java.tech) REMOVE comp.lang.java.misc (renamed to comp.lang.java.programmer) REMOVE comp.lang.java.api (renamed to comp.lang.java.programmer) Newsgroups lines: comp.lang.java.beans Java software components (JavaBeans). comp.lang.java.databases Databases, java.sql, JDBC, ODBC. comp.lang.java.gui GUI toolkits and windowing: AWT, IFC etc. comp.lang.java.help Set-up problems, catch-all first aid. comp.lang.java.machine JVM, native methods, hardware. comp.lang.java.softwaretools IDEs, browsers, compilers, other tools. Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 9 Apr 1997. This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent. Proponent: Peter van der Linden Proponent: Alexander Anderson Proponent: Emma Kolstad Antunes Proponent: Roedy Green Proponent: Marty Hall Proponent: Carl Johnson Proponent: David Karr Proponent: Tore Lund Proponent: George Paci Proponent: Thomas Poff Proponent: Jeremy Rosenberger Proponent: Kent Sandvik Proponent: D'Arcy Smith Mentor: Russ Allbery Votetaker: Jani Patokallio RATIONALE: all groups There are two main reasons we need a reorganization: too much cross-posting and too much misposting. In addition we want to add a couple of groups for discussing emerging areas of Java technology (databases and software tools). Cross-posting is now so common in the comp.lang.java.hierarchy that it defeats the purpose of separate groups. One reason for widespread cross posting is a lack of meaning in the existing newsgroup names. When no obvious group suggests itself, posters naturally select several possible ones. The results tend to blur group definition and reduce the visibility of other articles. Posting to the wrong group is the other half of the problem. Besides making on-topic articles hard to find, this practice in turn encourages cross-posting from others who find their topic of interest unfolding on several groups. In other words, cross-posting and misposting reinforce one another. Only the truly enthusiastic read the charters when trying to decide which group to post to. As a result newsgroup names really need to be very descriptive of their charter, so posters can make their decision based on the name. The present comp.lang.java hierarchy fails to meet this standard. This new RFD doesn't try to create a perfect and unambiguous group structure (assuming such a thing exists). Rather, the aim is to bring ambiguity down to an acceptable level by creating a group structure that is more easily understood, and that can be expanded in a natural way when the need arises. The normal practice should be that most articles are posted to one single, correct group. We think the changes proposed will provide this result. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.beans The proposal adds a group for Java software components. Software components form an area of expanding interest, and this group is being formed to give a more public expression to the current JavaBeans mailing list that has several hundred subscribers. [BEANS-USERS@javasoft.com] RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.databases The proposal adds a group for Java and databases. Database access using Java and the Java DataBase Connectivity libraries is a growing topic of interest in the Java hierarchy. We propose a separate group for these issues. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.gui The proposal adds a group for postings related to the GUI framework and window toolkits in Java. This topic is one of the highest volume topics in the comp.lang.java.programmer hierarchy, and giving it a separate group will considerably lessen the volume in .programmer, as well as making it simpler for those who wish to focus on windows issues. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.help The proposal renames .setup to .help Many HELP ME articles are hard to classify in terms of Java newsgroup and are therefore arbitrarily posted all over comp.lang.java.*. Extending the scope of .setup to include general first aid and renaming it to .help will resolve these two problems. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.machine This group is renamed from .tech to .machine mainly in order to offer a more descriptive name to people who believe that any programming problem is a "technical" problem. In addition, some hardware issues will inevitably be discussed on comp.lang.java.*, and grouping these with the Java virtual machine and native methods seems the most natural choice. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.programmer The proposal merges the .misc group back into comp.lang.java.programmer. The charter for this group specifically excludes questions relating to Java as a programming language - a point that is lost on all but a few of the posters. The charter is, however, unclear as to which topics clj.misc is meant to cover, just saying effectively "everything else". We therefore propose to remove this group. The articles that legitimately belong here can easily be accommodated by .advocacy, clj.machine and .softwaretools. Partly as a consequence of this, the charter for .advocacy is modified to mark it out more clearly as the default group for nontechnical and nonprogramming issues. Many articles on .misc are still addressed to comp.lang.java. These will from now on be forwarded to comp.lang.java.programmer. The May 1996 reorganization of the comp.lang.java.* hierarchy noted that comp.lang.java.misc was "one of the two best candidates for a no vote" I.e. for not being created in the first place. The proposal merges the .api group back into comp.lang.java.programmer. The charters for .api and .programmer make an unfortunate distinction between application programming interfaces and language features. These issues are hard to separate and cross-posting is the main result of this. Since articles relating to language features only are not very numerous at present, we propose to merge these two groups into comp.lang.java.programmer. The charter for .programmer is revised to include the content of .api except application programming covered under other groups. The May 1996 reorganization of the comp.lang.java.* hierarchy noted that comp.lang.java.api was "one of the two best candidates for a no vote" I.e. for not being created in the first place. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.softwaretools The proposal adds a group for software tools relating to Java. Software tools - e.g. Integrated Development Environments (IDEs), browsers, compilers, JDK tools, etc. - are already a major topic. We propose to create this group in order to relieve other groups and eliminate cross-posting of such articles. CHARTER: all groups The normal practice should be that most articles are posted to one single, correct group ONLY. Cross-posting is only appropriate when the problem is hard to categorize or when it legitimately concerns more than one group. Answers should be posted to a single group only once the nature of the problem has been ascertained. Many articles of this sort should go to comp.lang.java.help (only). It is not appropriate to post binary class files or long (longer than one or two screenfuls) source listings on any of these groups. Instead, the post should reference a WWW or FTP site (short source snippets to demonstrate a particular point or problem are fine). END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.beans This unmoderated group is for any and all discussion relating to JavaBeans and software components in Java. This includes the relationship of Java to platform-dependent component frameworks such as Microsoft's OLE (ActiveX) and portable but non-Java frameworks such as Apple's OpenDoc. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.databases This unmoderated group is for any and all discussion relating to database access in Java. This includes the standard packages JDBC and JDBC-ODBC, as well as third party products with similar functions. Questions about ODBC (Object DataBase Connectivity) or other database concepts are appropriate to the extent that they have a reasonable connection with Java programming. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.gui This unmoderated group is for any and all discussion relating to GUI toolkits or window frameworks in Java. Topics include the AWT, Netscape's IFC, Microsoft's planned AFC, Visix's Vibe toolkit, among others. The newsgroup will also be the appropriate place for discussion of the JDK event model, mouse and keyboard issues, bugs in windowing code, and graphics programming in Java. If it concerns something that can be seen on the screen, it belongs in this group. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.help This unmoderated group is for immediate help on any Java problem, especially when the source of the difficulty is hard to pin down in terms of topics treated on other groups. This is the appropriate group for end-users, programmers and administrators who are having difficulty installing a system capable of running Java applets or programs. It is also the right group for people trying to check their understanding of something in the language, or to troubleshoot something simple. Subject lines should include the platform that the problem occurs on, and the browser or compiler version, e.g. [win95 netscape 2.0], [linux hotjava 1.0 beta2], etc. This group renames comp.lang.java.setup. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.machine This unmoderated group is for all aspects of Java technology that are below the level of the Java source language. This is mostly the virtual machine, its implementation, bytecodes, class file format, performance and optimization, possible extensions, porting, etc. Questions about Java hardware or the suitability of computers and operating systems for use with Java are also appropriate. Users should post here about compiling other languages into Java bytecodes, or problems with native methods. This group renames comp.lang.java.tech. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.programmer This unmoderated group is for problems and discussion relating to Java as a language, programming in general and the application of libraries and APIs not covered under other groups. If traffic is high enough, this group may later be split functionally. In the meantime, posts specific to a class or package should include its name at the beginning of the title, for example, [awt], [sun.net], etc., to facilitate easy filtering. This group merges (renames) comp.lang.java.misc, comp.lang.java.api into the already existing comp.lang.java.programmer group. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.softwaretools This unmoderated group is for problems and discussion relating to development tools for Java programming. This includes Integrated Development Environments (IDEs), Internet browsers, compilers, decompilers, debuggers, editors, and other software tools. END CHARTER. HOW TO VOTE: * Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines. Don't worry about the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your reply inserts. Please, DO NOT send the entire CFV back to me! * Mark the ballot and then MAIL it to: < voting@hut.fi > Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line. * In order to properly record your vote, please provide your REAL NAME and indicate your desired vote in the appropriate locations inside the ballot. * Examples of how to properly indicate your vote: [ YES ] example.yes.vote [ NO ] example.no.vote [ ABSTAIN ] example.abstention [ CANCEL ] example.cancellation * DO NOT modify, alter or delete any information in this ballot! If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot. ======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line ======= .----------------------------------------------------------------------- | 2ND CALL FOR VOTES: comp.lang.java reorganization | Official Usenet Voting Ballot (Do not remove this line!) |----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected. Place | ONLY your name (ie. do NOT include your e-mail address or any other | information; ONLY your name) after the colon on the following line: Voter name: | Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each | newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name): Your Vote Newsgroup --------- ----------------------------------------------------------- [ ] comp.lang.java.beans [ ] comp.lang.java.databases [ ] comp.lang.java.gui [ ] comp.lang.java.softwaretools [ ] comp.lang.java.help (renames comp.lang.java.setup) [ ] comp.lang.java.machine (renames comp.lang.java.tech) [ ] comp.lang.java.programmer (removes c.l.j.api and .misc) ======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ============== Please note that comp.lang.java.programmer is an existing group. It will continue to exist regardless whether you vote YES or NO on its item. If you vote YES, you favor removal of comp.lang.java.api and .misc, transferring their discussion to comp.lang.java.programmer. If you vote NO, you favor continuation of comp.lang.java.programmer, .api, and .misc as they exist now. IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: Standard Guidelines for voting apply. One person, one vote. Votes must be mailed directly from the voter to the votetaker. Anonymous, forwarded or proxy votes are not valid. Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI forms are considered to be anonymous votes. Vote counting is automated. Failure to follow these directions may mean that your vote does not get counted. If you do not receive an acknowledgment of your vote within three days contact the votetaker about the problem. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly. Duplicate votes are resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote. Addresses and votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results post. The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest of persons who would read a proposed newsgroup. Soliciting votes from disinterested parties defeats this purpose. Please do not distribute this CFV. If you must, direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups. Distributing pre-marked or otherwise edited copies of this CFV is generally considered to be vote fraud. When in doubt, ask the votetaker. DISTRIBUTION: Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be posted in these groups: comp.lang.java.advocacy This CFV was created with uvpq 1.0beta (Mar 2 1997). PQ datestamp: 970221 -- Voting address : voting@hut.fi Voting information: http://www.hut.fi/~jpatokal/uvv/ From jpatokal@alpha.hut.fi Thu Apr 10 06:37:50 1997 Path: news.isc.org!bounce-back From: Jani Patokallio Reply-To: jpatokal@alpha.hut.fi Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.lang.java.api,comp.lang.java.misc,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.java.security,comp.lang.java.setup,comp.lang.java.tech Subject: RESULT: comp.lang.java.* reorganization all groups pass Followup-To: news.groups Message-ID: <860665862.3170@isc.org> Supersedes: <859644028.3885@isc.org> Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Approved: newgroups-request@isc.org Archive-Name: comp.lang.java-reorg Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:51:02 GMT Lines: 633 Xref: news.isc.org news.announce.newgroups:244 RESULT unmoderated group comp.lang.java.beans passes 284:22 unmoderated group comp.lang.java.databases passes 293:17 unmoderated group comp.lang.java.gui passes 296:20 unmoderated group comp.lang.java.softwaretools passes 293:21 unmoderated group comp.lang.java.help (renames comp.lang.java.setup) passes 286:29 unmoderated group comp.lang.java.machine (renames comp.lang.java.tech) passes 289:22 REMOVE comp.lang.java.misc (renamed to comp.lang.java.programmer) passes 289:22 REMOVE comp.lang.java.api (renamed to comp.lang.java.programmer) passes 289:22 comp.lang.java.* reorg results - 322 valid votes Yes No : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group ---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : ------------------------------------------- 284 22 : Yes Yes : Yes : comp.lang.java.beans 293 17 : Yes Yes : Yes : comp.lang.java.databases 296 20 : Yes Yes : Yes : comp.lang.java.gui 286 29 : Yes Yes : Yes : comp.lang.java.help (renames comp.lang.java.setup) 289 22 : Yes Yes : Yes : comp.lang.java.machine (renames comp.lang.java.tech) 289 22 : Yes Yes : Yes : comp.lang.java.programmer (renames comp.lang.java.api and comp.lang.java.misc) 293 21 : Yes Yes : Yes : comp.lang.java.softwaretools 2 invalid votes Newsgroups line: comp.lang.java.beans Java software components (JavaBeans). comp.lang.java.databases Databases, java.sql, JDBC, ODBC. comp.lang.java.gui GUI toolkits and windowing: AWT, IFC etc. comp.lang.java.help Set-up problems, catch-all first aid. comp.lang.java.machine JVM, native methods, hardware. comp.lang.java.softwaretools IDEs, browsers, compilers, other tools. The voting period closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 9 Apr 1997. This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent. Proponent: Peter van der Linden Proponent: Alexander Anderson Proponent: Emma Kolstad Antunes Proponent: Roedy Green Proponent: Marty Hall Proponent: Carl Johnson Proponent: David Karr Proponent: Tore Lund Proponent: George Paci Proponent: Thomas Poff Proponent: Jeremy Rosenberger Proponent: Kent Sandvik Proponent: D'Arcy Smith Mentor: Russ Allbery Votetaker: Jani Patokallio RATIONALE: all groups There are two main reasons we need a reorganization: too much cross-posting and too much misposting. In addition we want to add a couple of groups for discussing emerging areas of Java technology (databases and software tools). Cross-posting is now so common in the comp.lang.java.hierarchy that it defeats the purpose of separate groups. One reason for widespread cross posting is a lack of meaning in the existing newsgroup names. When no obvious group suggests itself, posters naturally select several possible ones. The results tend to blur group definition and reduce the visibility of other articles. Posting to the wrong group is the other half of the problem. Besides making on-topic articles hard to find, this practice in turn encourages cross-posting from others who find their topic of interest unfolding on several groups. In other words, cross-posting and misposting reinforce one another. Only the truly enthusiastic read the charters when trying to decide which group to post to. As a result newsgroup names really need to be very descriptive of their charter, so posters can make their decision based on the name. The present comp.lang.java hierarchy fails to meet this standard. This new RFD doesn't try to create a perfect and unambiguous group structure (assuming such a thing exists). Rather, the aim is to bring ambiguity down to an acceptable level by creating a group structure that is more easily understood, and that can be expanded in a natural way when the need arises. The normal practice should be that most articles are posted to one single, correct group. We think the changes proposed will provide this result. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.beans The proposal adds a group for Java software components. Software components form an area of expanding interest, and this group is being formed to give a more public expression to the current JavaBeans mailing list that has several hundred subscribers. [BEANS-USERS@javasoft.com] RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.databases The proposal adds a group for Java and databases. Database access using Java and the Java DataBase Connectivity libraries is a growing topic of interest in the Java hierarchy. We propose a separate group for these issues. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.gui The proposal adds a group for postings related to the GUI framework and window toolkits in Java. This topic is one of the highest volume topics in the comp.lang.java.programmer hierarchy, and giving it a separate group will considerably lessen the volume in .programmer, as well as making it simpler for those who wish to focus on windows issues. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.help The proposal renames .setup to .help Many HELP ME articles are hard to classify in terms of Java newsgroup and are therefore arbitrarily posted all over comp.lang.java.*. Extending the scope of .setup to include general first aid and renaming it to .help will resolve these two problems. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.machine This group is renamed from .tech to .machine mainly in order to offer a more descriptive name to people who believe that any programming problem is a "technical" problem. In addition, some hardware issues will inevitably be discussed on comp.lang.java.*, and grouping these with the Java virtual machine and native methods seems the most natural choice. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.programmer The proposal merges the .misc group back into comp.lang.java.programmer. The charter for this group specifically excludes questions relating to Java as a programming language - a point that is lost on all but a few of the posters. The charter is, however, unclear as to which topics clj.misc is meant to cover, just saying effectively "everything else". We therefore propose to remove this group. The articles that legitimately belong here can easily be accommodated by .advocacy, clj.machine and .softwaretools. Partly as a consequence of this, the charter for .advocacy is modified to mark it out more clearly as the default group for nontechnical and nonprogramming issues. Many articles on .misc are still addressed to comp.lang.java. These will from now on be forwarded to comp.lang.java.programmer. The May 1996 reorganization of the comp.lang.java.* hierarchy noted that comp.lang.java.misc was "one of the two best candidates for a no vote" I.e. for not being created in the first place. The proposal merges the .api group back into comp.lang.java.programmer. The charters for .api and .programmer make an unfortunate distinction between application programming interfaces and language features. These issues are hard to separate and cross-posting is the main result of this. Since articles relating to language features only are not very numerous at present, we propose to merge these two groups into comp.lang.java.programmer. The charter for .programmer is revised to include the content of .api except application programming covered under other groups. The May 1996 reorganization of the comp.lang.java.* hierarchy noted that comp.lang.java.api was "one of the two best candidates for a no vote" I.e. for not being created in the first place. RATIONALE: comp.lang.java.softwaretools The proposal adds a group for software tools relating to Java. Software tools - e.g. Integrated Development Environments (IDEs), browsers, compilers, JDK tools, etc. - are already a major topic. We propose to create this group in order to relieve other groups and eliminate cross-posting of such articles. CHARTER: all groups The normal practice should be that most articles are posted to one single, correct group ONLY. Cross-posting is only appropriate when the problem is hard to categorize or when it legitimately concerns more than one group. Answers should be posted to a single group only once the nature of the problem has been ascertained. Many articles of this sort should go to comp.lang.java.help (only). It is not appropriate to post binary class files or long (longer than one or two screenfuls) source listings on any of these groups. Instead, the post should reference a WWW or FTP site (short source snippets to demonstrate a particular point or problem are fine). END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.beans This unmoderated group is for any and all discussion relating to JavaBeans and software components in Java. This includes the relationship of Java to platform-dependent component frameworks such as Microsoft's OLE (ActiveX) and portable but non-Java frameworks such as Apple's OpenDoc. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.databases This unmoderated group is for any and all discussion relating to database access in Java. This includes the standard packages JDBC and JDBC-ODBC, as well as third party products with similar functions. Questions about ODBC (Object DataBase Connectivity) or other database concepts are appropriate to the extent that they have a reasonable connection with Java programming. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.gui This unmoderated group is for any and all discussion relating to GUI toolkits or window frameworks in Java. Topics include the AWT, Netscape's IFC, Microsoft's planned AFC, Visix's Vibe toolkit, among others. The newsgroup will also be the appropriate place for discussion of the JDK event model, mouse and keyboard issues, bugs in windowing code, and graphics programming in Java. If it concerns something that can be seen on the screen, it belongs in this group. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.help This unmoderated group is for immediate help on any Java problem, especially when the source of the difficulty is hard to pin down in terms of topics treated on other groups. This is the appropriate group for end-users, programmers and administrators who are having difficulty installing a system capable of running Java applets or programs. It is also the right group for people trying to check their understanding of something in the language, or to troubleshoot something simple. Subject lines should include the platform that the problem occurs on, and the browser or compiler version, e.g. [win95 netscape 2.0], [linux hotjava 1.0 beta2], etc. This group renames comp.lang.java.setup. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.machine This unmoderated group is for all aspects of Java technology that are below the level of the Java source language. This is mostly the virtual machine, its implementation, bytecodes, class file format, performance and optimization, possible extensions, porting, etc. Questions about Java hardware or the suitability of computers and operating systems for use with Java are also appropriate. Users should post here about compiling other languages into Java bytecodes, or problems with native methods. This group renames comp.lang.java.tech. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.programmer This unmoderated group is for problems and discussion relating to Java as a language, programming in general and the application of libraries and APIs not covered under other groups. If traffic is high enough, this group may later be split functionally. In the meantime, posts specific to a class or package should include its name at the beginning of the title, for example, [awt], [sun.net], etc., to facilitate easy filtering. This group merges (renames) comp.lang.java.misc, comp.lang.java.api into the already existing comp.lang.java.programmer group. END CHARTER. CHARTER: comp.lang.java.softwaretools This unmoderated group is for problems and discussion relating to development tools for Java programming. This includes Integrated Development Environments (IDEs), Internet browsers, compilers, decompilers, debuggers, editors, and other software tools. END CHARTER. comp.lang.java.* reorg Final Vote Ack comp.lang.java.softwaretools ---------+ comp.lang.java.programmer (renames comp.lang.java.api and comp.lang.java.misc) --------+| comp.lang.java.machine (renames comp.lang.java.tech) -------+|| comp.lang.java.help (renames comp.lang.java.setup) ------+||| comp.lang.java.gui -----+|||| comp.lang.java.databases ----+||||| comp.lang.java.beans ---+|||||| ||||||| 87@odin.lcc.net Mark Campbell YYYYYYY a.johnson@opengroup.org E. Andrew Johnson YYYYYYY ab598@freenet.carleton.ca David Biggar YYYYYYY abennett@corp.borland.com AndrewBennett YYYYYYY adam.connor@mail.utexas.edu Adam Connor YYYNYYY adam@paramedx.demon.co.uk Adam Lovick YYYYYYY advancedimagery@bc1.com Jamie Pettit YYYYYYY afabbro@brokenarrow.us.itd.umich.edu Andrew Fabbro NNNNNNN akoskine@cc.helsinki.fi Aaro Koskinen NNNYYYN Alan.Nichols@Eng.Sun.COM Alan Nichols YYYYYYY alanc@godzilla.EECS.Berkeley.EDU Alan Coopersmith YYYYYYY alder@null.net Alexander Demenchuk YYY-YYY Andree.M.Fontenot@lmtas.lmco.com Andree Fontenot YYYYYYY andrews@infinet.com Brad Andrews YYYYYYY arzaidi@novice.uwaterloo.ca Rehan Zaidi YYYNNYY asellhor@harris.com Augusto Sellhorn YYYYYYY AshleyB@halcyon.com Ashley Yakeley YYYYY-Y atala@squid.umd.edu Pita Atala --YYYYY az266@lafn.org B. Thober YYYYYYY bbalfour@sun3.std.caci.com Brad Balfour YYYYYYY ben.wittmeyer@worldnet.att.net Benjamin Wittmeyer YYYYNYN berstel@ilog.fr Bruno Berstel YYYYYYY bill@iconcomp.com Bill Gooch YYYYYYY blue@internation.co.uk Leigh Blue Caldwell YYYYYYY booda@datasync.com Martin H. Booda NNNNNNN bouvin@daimi.aau.dk Niels Olof Bouvin YYYYYYY bparker@interaccess.com Ben Parker YYYYYYY brangdon@cix.compulink.co.uk Dave Harris YYYYYYY braynor@jupiter.kcc.com William J. Raynor,Jr. YYYYYYY bruce@kenosis.com Bruce Baugh NNNNNNN bryan@panix.com Bryan Althaus YYYYYYY c.hamann@mindspring.com Chad Michael Hamann YYYYYYY c.merrill@ieee.org Christopher L Merrill YYYYYYY C.Tomlinson@rosette.com Christine Tomlinson YYYYYYY carl.johnson@nautronix.com.au carl johnson YYYYYYY Carl.Kristian.Eriksen@cinet.no Carl Kristian Eriksen YYYYYYY cas@interlog.com Colin Sampaleanu YYYYYYY chris.goringe@materials.oxford.ac.uk Chris Goringe YYYYYYY chrisa@lexis-nexis.com Chris Anderson YYYYYYY Christian.Gasser@elca.ch Christian Gasser YYYYYYY clonezne@tezcat.com Elliot Shank YYYYYYY cmp@ist.co.uk Chris Paine YYYYYYY cn103@torfree.net Duncan Findlay NYYYYYY Coby.Royer@connectcorp.com Coby Royer YYYYYYY Cockpit@aol.com Bob YNYYYYY coleman@chez-gnu.cstp.umkc.edu Mike Coleman YYYYYYY coyne_g@mailhost.magicnet.net George Coyne YYYYYYY cpopetz@cpopetz.com Clinton Popetz YYYYYYY craig@dog-star.com Craig Schamp YYYYYYY craigp@rocketship.com Craig L. Patterson YYYYYYY criggie@hn.planet.gen.nz Craig Box YYYYYYY cschoppe@nal.usda.gov Charles W. Schoppet YYYYYYY csong@tip.com.sg Chuang Shyne Song YYYYYYY d93-jkn@sm.luth.se Johan Karlsson YYYYYYY dan@cthulhu.control.com Dan L. Pierson YYYYYYY daniel.rybowski@infoboard.be Daniel Rybowski NYYYYYY darin@omegasoft.org Darin DeForest YYYNNNY dave@lumos.com David Spencer YYYYYYY dave@mathworks.com Dave Pascoe YYYYYYY daveb@sc-systems.com David Boydston YYYYYYY david.black@ncl.ac.uk David Black YYYYYYY davidw@parallax.co.uk David Wilkinson YYYYYYY db@jymis.com Doug Boicourt YYYYYYY dballard@cs.com Don Ballard YYYYYYY dbell@shvn.com Doug Bell -YNYYYY dbigwood@gig.usda.gov Douglas W. Bigwood YYYYY-- dchazin@bighorn.dr.lucent.com David Chazin YYYYYYY dekker@ACM.org Anthony Henry Dekker YYYYYYY delabeau@iniki.gsfc.nasa.gov J-F Pitot de La Beaujardiere YYYYYYY Devon.Tuck@Ebay.Sun.COM Devon Tuck YYYYYYY djoh003@cs.auckland.ac.nz Daniel Johns -YY-YY- dkarr@bbn.com David A. Karr --YYYYY dmahoney@ctron.com Daniel Mahoney YYYYNYY dodier@bechtel.Colorado.EDU Robert Dodier YYYYYYY doliov@statsol.com Stephan Doliov YYYYYNY donncha@xcomms.ie Donncha Redmond YYYYYYY doughboy@cris.com Michael Nelson -YYYYY- ds@itools.symantec.com D'Arcy Smith YYYYYYY duane+@andrew.cmu.edu Duane T. Williams YYYYYYY dvawter@mindspring.com Don Vawter YYYYYYY e3grazio@twi.ch Claudio Grazioli YYYYYYY eamonn@qualcomm.com Eamonn Coleman YYYYYYY edlm10@pobox.com Eric de la Musse YYYYYYY edt@world.std.com Eugene Dale Tyler YYYYYYY edward@largesoft.com Edward Montgomery YYYNYYY eggert@twinsun.com Paul Eggert YYYYYYN egorenkov@paragraph.com Egorenkov, Dmitriy --YYYYY eho@netiva.com Elliot Omiya YYYYYYY ellen.carroll@raba.com Ellen Carroll YYYYYYY elliot.weinstein@worldnet.att.net Elliot Weinstein YYYYYYY emma@sled.gsfc.nasa.gov Emma Kolstad Antunes YYYYYYY eraxhal@era-t.ericsson.se Hans Hall YYYYY-Y Eric.Marshall@MCI.com Eric Marshall YYYYYYY erics@pandasys.com Eric Snell YYYYYYY erik.schnetter@student.uni-tuebingen.de Erik Schnetter --YYYY- euthke@siam.muc.de Ekkehard Uthke YYNYYYY feldspar@netcom.com Joseph Crowley 3rd YYYYYYY francis@horschamp.qc.ca Francis J. Lacoste YYYYYYY fredde@sparta.lu.se Fredrik Jagenheim YYYYYYY friendless@usa.net John Farrell YYYYYYY fstrpba@umac.mo Robert P. Biuk-Aghai YYYYYYY garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Garfield Willis YYYYYYY gchamber@mail.bright.net Glenn Chambers YYYYYYY gchapman@irus.rri.uwo.ca Greg Chapman YYYYYYY gfarrow@shlden.com Glenn Farrow NNNNNNN ggainey@widget.com Grant Gainey YYYYYYY gharness@vetmed.wsu.edu Greg Harness NYNYYYY giles@ist.co.uk Giles Thomas YYYYYYY giles@nemeton.com.au Giles Lean YYYYYYY gjohnson@season.com Gary Johnson NNNN--N godzilla@futuris.net Les Schaffer YYYYYYY goldsmith@apple.com David Goldsmith YYYYYYY gpaci@MYPUGS.hlo.dec.com George Paci YYYYYYY gpasq@dbintellect.com Greg Pasquariello YYYYYYY gpr96002@uconnvm.uconn.edu G.P. Ryan NNNNNNN Graham.Hamilton@Eng.Sun.COM Graham Hamilton YYYYYYY groves@acm.org Don Groves YYYYYYY gutkneco@lirmm.lirmm.fr Olivier Gutknecht YYYYYYY haahr@netcom.com Paul Haahr YYYNYYY hall@apl.jhu.edu Marty Hall YYYYYYY hansg@Eng.Sun.COM Hans Granqvist YYYY-NY herve.haro@sophia.cnet.fr Herve Haro YYYYYYY hh299@cleveland.Freenet.Edu Jim Baranovich ---YY-- hharris@cs.uiuc.edu Harlan Harris YYYYYYY holger@media-eng.bielefeld.com Holger Ebert YYYYYYY hopwood@zetnet.co.uk David hopwood YYYYYYY HOWDENS@WCG.CO.UK SIMON HOWDEN YYYYYYY hsr@unx.dec.com Howard Rifkin YYYYYYY hummes@eurecom.fr Jakob Hummes YYYYYYY Ian.Beckwith@nessie.mcc.ac.uk Ian Beckwith YYYYYYY ian@dungeon.demon.co.uk Ian Kershaw YYYYYYY iburrell@leland.Stanford.EDU Ian Burrell YYYYYYY insa03@ibm.net Juan Valentin-Pastrana -YYYY-Y ivanl@pacific.net.sg Ivan Leong YYYYYYY j.steckhan@sap-ag.de Jens Steckhan YYYYNYY j.viola@westend.com J. Viola YYYYYYY jager@metrowerks.com Marcus Jager YYYYNYN jan.lindberg@mailbox.swipnet.se Jan Lindberg YYYYYYY janco@dbsoftware.com Jim Ancona YYYYYYY jay@spss.com Jay Jayaprasad YYYYYYY jaz@ultranet.com John Zukowski YYYYYYY jch@GS206.SP.CS.CMU.EDU Jonathan Hardwick YYYYYYY jdb@pinn.net J. David Beutel YYY-YYY jdf@pobox.com Jonathan Feinberg YYYYYYY JeffBauer@Bigfoot.com Jeff Bauer YYYYYYY jerome50@ix.netcom.com Jerry Althoff YYYYYYY jet@cheerfu.com John Talintyre YYYYYYY jlizotte@ghg.net Joseph A. Lizotte YYYYYYY jmenar@ctp.com Jim Menard YYYYYYY jmitch@clark.net Jim Mitchell YYYYYYY joe@millar.mv.com Joseph A. Millar YYYYYYY Joel.Crisp@bristol.ac.uk Joel Crisp YYYY-YY john.hendrickson@mindspring.com John R. Hendrickson YYYYYYY john_briggs@autosoft.com John Briggs YYYYYYY jonkv@ida.liu.se Jonas Kvarnström YYYYYYY joshua@wco.com Joshua Susser YYYYYYY jpeschie@cs.ruu.nl Jarno Peschier --YY-Y- jpw@interliant.com Jason White YYYYYYY jrs@net.com John Switzer YYYYYYY jsi@idiom.com Michael Craft NNNNNNN jss@marimba.com Josh Sirota YYYYYYY jtv@xs4all.nl Jeroen T. Vermeulen Y-YYYYY justin@logcam.co.uk Justin Forder YYYYYYY jwd@mitre.org Jonathan Doughty YYYYYYY kcf@psc.edu Karen Fabrizius YYYYYYY kevin@fairbruk.demon.co.uk Kevin Blackburn YYYYYYY khym@bga.com David Huang -YYY-YY kimdv@netcom.com Kim DeVaughn NYYYYYY kitto@dron.demon.co.uk Ashley Kitto YYYYYYY kowallek@iglou.com D. Kowallek YYYYYNY kpheidrich@wiesbaden-online.de Klaus-Peter Heidrich YYYNYYY kraemer@uni-mainz.de Marcus Kraemer YYYYYYY krish@cs.purdue.edu Sailesh Krishnamurthy YYYYYYY Laurent.Pellissier@ensm-ales.fr Laurent PELLISSIER YYYYYNY lcs@zk3.dec.com Larry Smith YYYYYYY leon@koala.inria.fr Jean-Michel Leon YYYYYYY ler@lerami.lerctr.org Larry Rosenman YYYYYYY lewikk@rockdal.aud.alcatel.com Kevin Lewis YYYYYYY linden@hsmpk14a-105.Eng.Sun.COM Peter van der Linden YYYYYYY linet@cryogen.com Brankica Kranjac YYYY-YN linguist@gte.net Rich Paul YYYYYYY lis.immer@jhuapl.edu Elisabeth A. Immer YYYYYYY list-votes@dream.hb.north.de Martin Schr"oder YYYYYYY loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de Martin von L=F6wis NNNNNNN luc@icgned.nl Luc Peerdeman YYYYYYY m.hooker@mcmail.com Mike Hooker YYYYYYY malakm@rpi.edu Michael Malak YYYYYYY markt@harlequin.co.uk Mark Tillotson Y--YYYY MarkusBauer@swol.de Markus Bauer YYYNYYY martens@worldnet.att.net Jeff Martens YYYYYYY Martin.Honnen@liberty.dolphinet.co.uk Honnen YYYNYYY Matic.Petek@s-sser.lj.edus.si Matic Petek YYYYYYY matt@primefactor.com Matt Perry YYYY-YY matthew.jackson@aus.deuba.com Matthew Jackson YYYYYNY mau@beatles.cselt.stet.it Maurizio Codogno YYYYYYY mayoff@tkg.com Rob Mayoff YYYYYYY mbm@mort.demon.co.uk Malcolm Mladenovic ---YYY- mcc@watson.ibm.com Mark Chu-Carroll YYYYYYY mcginnr@iastate.edu Ryan McGinnis YYYYYYY mclemmon@jcpenney.com Merlon O Clemmons II YYYYYYY mcohn@spider.innercite.com Michael Cohn YYYYYYY Michael.Nielsen@cern.ch Michael Collin Nielsen YYYYYYY mike@tw2.removethisbit.com Mike Henry YYYYYYY mitch@unidata.ucar.edu Mitch Baltuch YYYNYYY mks@pobox.com m k sexton YYYYYYY mkshp@ionet.net Michael Shipp YYYYYYY mzimmerm@worldchat.com Milan Zimmermann YYYYYYY needler@tc.fluke.com Carol Winter -Y--YYY nei@ibn.de Martin Neimeier YYYYYYY NIMROD@cst.com Nimrod Gil-Ad YYYYYYY njoneill@llnl.GOV N. J. O'Neill YYYYYYY ns@sphinx.muc.de Nico Scherer YYYY--Y office@yellowline.com Raquel Rice YYYYYYY oliva@dcc.unicamp.br Alexandre Oliva YYYYYYY ostenk01@tvratings.com Karl W. Ostendorf YYYYYYY panda@mis.net Jason Stephenson YYYNYYY patl@lcs.mit.edu Patrick J. LoPresti NNNNNNN Paul.N.Lee@Worldnet.att.net Paul N. Lee YYYYYYY paulsen@imailbox.com Robert Paulsen YYYNYYY paxil@inorth.on.ca Trevor Tymchuk YYYYYYY pcunnell@csfp.co.uk Paul Cunnell YYYYYYY pete.hardie@sciatl.com Pete Hardie YYYYYYY phil@panix.com Phil Gustafson YYYYYYY phil@vision25.demon.co.uk Philip Hunt -YYYYYY pib@reis.zaporizhzhe.ua Ilya B. Plotkin YYYYYYY pimentel@ultranet.com J Pimentel YYYYYYY pw@cacs.usl.edu Pirawat Watanapongse YYYYYYY pyared@jrad.com Pete Yared YYYYYYY raif@FL.NET.AU Raif S. Naffah YYYYYYY ralf@ark.franken.de Ralf W. Stephan YYYYYYY rao@ibm.net Paul Fisher YYYYYYY rbarzel@telis.org Ron Barzel YYYYYYY rdenny@dc3.com Bob Denny YYYYYYY redmonds@acf2.NYU.EDU Sean Redmond YYYYYYY REH@softlab.de Gerhard Rehmann YYYYYNY rene.schmit@crpht.lu Rene Schmit YYYYYYY rex@aussie.com Rex Jaeschke YYYYYYY rfraser@vanisl.vanisl.decus.ca Robert Fraser YYYYYYY rhend@infinet.com Richard S. Hendershot YYYYYYY richsong@vcn.bc.ca Richard Songhurst NNNNNNN rick@bcm.tmc.edu Richard Miller NNYYYYY RN@technologist.com Thomas Moll NYYYYYY rng@agaviion.auto-graphics.com Bob Girard YYYYYYY rns@mobicom.demon.co.uk Rick Stones YYYYYYY roedy@bix.com Roedy Green YYYNYNY roland@ontos.com Roland McKenney YYYYYYY Ron_Hayter@mindlink.bc.ca Ron Hayter YYYYYYY rosmanha@pinkinc.com H. A. Rosman NNNNNNN rpijlman@ic.uva.nl Rene Pijlman YYYNYYY rrose@accessnv.com Richard Rosenheim YYYYYYY rselph@netcom.com Russ Selph YYYYYYY rsuther@mixcom.com Robert G. Sutherland YYYYYYY rtd@notesguy.com Richard T. Dickinson YYYYYYY rufinus@mbe.ece.wisc.edu J Rufinus YYYYYYY runeb@td.org.uit.no Rune Braathen YYYYY-Y ryanh@geoworks.com Ryan Hamilton YYYYYYY r_sheehan@cs.auckland.ac.nz Robert Sheehan YYYYYYY samer.kanjo@cimlinc.com Samer Kanjo YYYYYYY Sandor.Spruit@let.ruu.nl Sandor Spruit YYYYYYY Sandy.Grosvenor@gsfc.nasa.gov Sandy Grosvenor YYYYYYY sandy@almide.demon.co.uk Alexander "Sandy" Anderson YYYYYYY schand+@andrew.cmu.edu Sandeep Chand YYYYYYY schapel@cs.ucsb.edu Steve Chapel YYY-YYY schmidt@radius.mae.cornell.edu Peter Schmidt YYYYYYY schorse@nightlife.escape.de Hansjoerg Oppermann YYYYYYY sdossick@cs.columbia.edu Steve Dossick YYYYYYY sdowd@mmts.eds.com Sean Dowd YYYYYYY see.my.sig@epk.ericsson.se Anders Olsson YYYYYYY shampoo@cam.org Justin F Knotzke YYYYYYY sidbeauch@synapse.net Sidney Beauchamp YYYYYYY simkin@cig.mot.com Rick Simkin -YYYYYY skib@pacbell.net Simon K. Barrow YYYYYYY skip@visix.com Skip Sauls YYYYYYY skoch@rumms.uni-mannheim.de Stefan Koch YYYYYYY skovatch@metrowerks.dot.com Scott Kovatch YYYYYYY slamb0@worldnet.att.net Sean Lamb YY-Y--Y slk@karpes.stu.rpi.edu Simon Karpen YYYYYYY soon@mail.utexas.edu Soon Y. Choi YYYYYYY SPB@tntv3.ntrs.com Steve Bonine YYYYY-Y sridhar@iss.nus.sg SRIDHARAN RANGARAJAN YYYYYYY stainles@bga.com Dwight Brown NNNNNNN steiners@primenet.com Jason and Heather NNNNNNN stella@magenta.com STella YYYYYYY steve@Watt.COM Steve Watt -- KD6GGD YY-YY-Y steven@compcat.com STEVEN HILL YYYY-YY stuart@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz stuart yeates YYYYYYY stuart@gol.com Stuart Woodward YYYYYYY svictor@saratoga.compassnet.com Stephen Victor YYYYNYN szpak@well.com Mark Szpakowski YYYYYYY tchen@bellcore.com Ta Chen YYYYYYY tdaum@cat.syr.edu Thorsten Daum YYYYYYY tes@zombie.ncsc.mil Terry Suitor YYYYYYY thomas@mayo.dircon.co.uk Thomas O'Donohoe YYYYYYY thor1@themall.net Thornton Prime YYNNYNY tipping@ibm.net Jim Tipping YYYYYYY tkriley@acm.org Thomas K. Riley YYYYYYY tl001@sn.no Tore Lund YYYYYYY tlawson@amug.org Todd C. Lawson NNNNNNN torsten@ponton.uni-hannover.de Torsten Rueger YYYYYYY troush@redwood.dn.hac.com Tricia Roush YYYYNYY twl@netgate.net Theodore Leung YYYYYYY umgomez0@cc.umanitoba.ca Kenneth Brian Gomez. --Y--Y- urbains@tir.com Avis Rouge YYYYYYY Urs.Eberle@ubs.ch Urs Eberle YYYYYYY veloso@pobox.com Manny Veloso YYYYYYY viktor.ransmayr@i-dial.de Viktor Ransmayr Y-Y-YYY ville@geom.helsinki.fi Ville Hakulinen YYYYYYY vision@halcyon.com Andy Kriger YYYYYYY vnesek@zems.fer.hr Vjekoslav Nesek YYYYYYY vossler@csn.net Roger Vossler YYYYYYY vsonerud@pvv.ntnu.no Vidar Sonerud YYYYYYY wakelyn@pinn.net Tom Wakelyn NYNNNYN walter.pad@sni.de Walter van Iterson Y-YYYYY warwick@it.uq.edu.au Warwick Allison YYYYYYY watson@CEBAF.GOV Chip Watson YYYYYYY wdieteri@rmi.net William Dieterich YYYYYYY WernerP@axioma.co.at Werner Punz YYYYYYY whodges@pniltd.com Wes Hodges YYYYYYY william@msmail.carsinfo.com William L. Harris YYYYYYY xanthian@well.com Kent Paul Dolan YYYYYYY zed@cjnetworks.com Ned Fleming YYYYYYY zorzella@dcc.unicamp.br Luiz Otavio L. Zorzella YYYYYYY Votes in error ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ricardo@paranoia.com Ricardo Hector Gonzales ! No ballot ry89@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de ! No vote statement in message DISTRIBUTION: Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be posted in these groups: comp.lang.java.advocacy This CFV was created with uvpq 1.0beta (Mar 2 1997). PQ datestamp: 970221 -- Voting address : voting@hut.fi Voting information: http://www.hut.fi/~jpatokal/uvv/