Meeting Wo. t Lcndon. England,pril1
Subject arrived5 hours on Sunday.prilfter treating Subject, he snt down end
. Qf 51 Trday wc wcnl sightseeing. We saw Windsorav*sone questions to ask you. Let us assumerrive in Moscoway. Let us assumeave arrived wfth no Incident, and In any case you will giveelethons tic. to cell Inill rin^ Itesignated hour and lust Vet th> phone3engage In no conversation. This would signify thai all la In order. illings again and that Is all. !all from anbooth. ake mere ringshat willthat -prdethlnp Is notrderill attempt to adv'sc yen ln rome other wayan. sfbly surveillance rn me of scneen ejtamrlr. G: Translates above Into Rm.Hsn. ant any time he eveningeth. o: Trior to your departure we will provide you with the number and tell you when to cell. hould tMnlc that you would want te know that all Is well with me. 0: Of course, we Things could be worked cut simply: id not get every thing from'or to my departure or If WYNNE crtildn't brim, it. Anyone speaking Russian, man cr woman, could call me from'
booth and say anything Irrelevant. Gi Yes, but is that we do not wish to cut Inoi le toofunderstand this and am gratefulthis, Thetrojer.
2. Please cons'der the twoave ynu. One, the dead drop a'te and the other, the meefng site. It Is very cood meet hisrlAYA near the Tf5ftXKOVSKAYA Gallery.
eVery neok here end evenacn custodians. These Americans acted very wen. when we were talking In Russian and iccaritnal lassera-by cene near, mostly wenen, thev cleverly changed the conversation, admiring the moon, etc. "
Q) ss.My-gqcond question! m trying to find outW3V
1 r>y Can
elpn this? ave an appointment at the
Embassy nnd willrobahly meet the PXPlVrmhert t'mc. 1 slsor two with' SHAl'OVALOV. eed basic personal datan %aaaaasssr There was n- orr^rtur.'ty for me to get tMs 'n Moscow. 0: You mean data as ev'dence that
APPROVED FOR UREASE
yon have studied the man. ft eedittle, not much. Q- You know, Just looking at hla visiting card. All sorts of titles, decoration, etc. are listed on it, and you need te report such data as If ynu got It yourself. St Yes, that's all and some bae'e biographic data, date of birth, marital status, children, address, telephone number.
Ct) It TomorrowUl not ge with ths delegation. Tlfpyave to go to the Embassy to arrange for moneysnd make all other arrangements for our extended'll net go there0 hours. In the mornlno will go to stores with WYNNE. My delegation members are all very happy. They will be able to buy all sorts of Junk with the money they saved on their per diem since they were fed everywhere. I'll meet them00 hours. They are happy with me since theyave organlred everything well for them personally. There hasn't been one word or cr'ttc'flng to date. ven told them that If they write good reports on their work here and do good work they will come here with me again in October. Thla is very attractive to them. cldculd also wr'te aleport and they are all happy.
5. St eed this material onust brief Ot Very well, when can you drop In tomorrow morn'ng? St m go'ng to the stores with WYNNE. Yesterday wc already made the arrangements. ill leave my purchases with him md what he can't bring to me on his coming trip he can bring ne later, mths. ant to purchase everything myselfhole notebook full of Items to got. I takeays. ill go to the Embassy to rece.'ve funds. The approving calble has ccrae In as weM as cable approving fundsounds; they are economizing. The outgo np cable was well worded. It stated that the delegation will look Into electronics, and the approval went throuch the Central Committee.
St They want tc learn about every little electron'c detair. ave seen many reports made by visiting delegations. Copies are duplicated for dlssem'natton to the various inst'tutes ond academies, ill gel yru copies from the originals and ymir selenthts can see what ur delegates are after and what they get. Your people are not shown our factories of Only certa'n ones are'nspect'^n. We were supposed to take aaajjaiaa. t0ement factory. At
0nljy th? tUctrlcd notsince to^manyaXTaTrol^rc^be seen LaTir-TKey
on our here
operates like WYNNE, ard
bi oasis only. Cn -the 9th of Maya seven-ryan deleua sm^fla^ be the interpreter who Is co-opleJ By WB. Hetee andalf Jew. There willonference
and they will be received by BERGER who goes to Moscow^Ijn.
Hi Who Is the ONTK subordinated to? Ot ld IlkdIop ee we have to contact
81 Row about thooomsittw, eputylalstcr of USSR haa aors stature than PVTuTCff,rator chief. BHRUMICHTYeputies aad ba haa tba Ccaailttaa under bla control. Tha Committee la like Seelet of Solentlataraeeidlua. Thereo at IBtee mambara. Thean will laolude chief epeelallata, chiefs af alreetor-ateo Thla la the top echelon. Thoa ha haa unaer ma the Prreotorato of Fore Ian Relational, tha Chief of which la 0YI8HXARIvho remain* aa chlaf. If they made mm him dapaty,onld have greater freedom of notionould attend meet lose, receptions,-ato. to all count rice not onlyave ta do with aov. Gt Thlairectorate/ si Xt will bo by tha nev Table
of Organization . It la bow an OTDKL, The Directorate rarlaalya) baa three OTTJSLSt Tba OTDKL of Foreign ablations) tho Information OTTJtL and tha Foreign OTDIL,rotocol OTEsL. Oi that do these do?
The OTDKL of Foreign Relatione conef seeaa tha American Sector which includes) all Ajeerlcaatho Bngllah aeotor, under BRRD1RIKOT, whichand Doninlonaj tba third la tha Africa 'Asiantba Rear, Middle aad Far Beat, lach OTDSL baa aand nn expert vho la la charge of one or two- thus each aeotor vouldIS esperts. Lt.who workad la tha OR la Rev York,trategicofficer. Be vaaa aoatha aad vaa reaoved,
that la normally, aad ba vaa appointed aa aa axport in tha Amcrloan aeotor. Ra la eubordlnate to tha Sector Chief, Dsala POLYAK0V. raduated froa tha Academy with POLTAaXTf and ha had bean la Americas Legation Jueta here now. One bya reoeabering ay elaaaaatea. Originally thereara dlaalaeed. Oneathar whoULAK and tha other vaa dlaaiaaadl for seas reasonan't reneaber. ay baa liar situation aov bat they Bast suffer ao there or shoot aa( one of tba tvo.
Too. any thnt you aspect to ba tha Deputy of 81 Tea, If no thing happens, tha Dapaty his fall nana la Fohanasa MKRAILOT ICR and histo tha daughter of KOSTGIH. Raeaber ofand latupid aanj be la wall liked, andvery plenaant to as
noOvarglan. ea* fsarsA because af hlaav. On* oeaplalnt t* hla and th* *aa la,
baat th**thar 0TOBL8? 8i Tha Iaf*rnatlaa OTDKL haa ln ltpaolallata. Tb*aa spoelalleta arala tbalrs la* such ss, black *stelurgy, electrical equipment, ataal,n ah*rt, all af tb* aaln lashtatrlaa. Batt autberitativ* speciallata ar* alsaaf th*hsasTsr Aelegatiea* bring ln aat*rlal, it lavar ta tha Infsrnetlsn OTDKL aad tha apse Is listsla* vbara lt sh*ul*t. Farpsolfio industry if ltt* aa laatltata ar acaOkrar, arlnlatrr.a* sts lasts th* notarial. Q> Das* ha ra allltary apeclaliata? aa. Thaaa vh* ars eencsrnsA vith var pr**uotl*a. All anr paapl* ar* civilian* butk vith tba allltary.
BiForeignhs Protocol Sector vhloh deal* with* Ignore and ara agsnta far tbalr accsnstsdatiana, ate. Pr**ln*at rial tar* ars sftsnll aceawJatiasa at garsrnwunt sxpsas*. laaal*aai Set oral nee vha vlll aooaaipaap th*atl*na and aatac*a.hay determine *b* vlll attanAurn lnvltatlvns t* th*aabaaalaa. t*raliyklng grsup* in thi* OTTJSL. Tva sr thr a* pssplsh* plana log far tsurs] they call th* chiefaaAustrlSB Vh*r* Tlnltinj delegations wsulA Ilk* t* geer* lesion ta visitla paralttsd. Another gr*up arraagvs fsr th* guide* and Interpreter*. hirdar*c*a, etc. la short, all af tha nsraaaaal la thia forslgn OTDKLalga deiogmtl*as. Bashroup vhlch accssipaalsa fsraignara frs*otrl*a. hat la th*a*nnol atrsngth? aa Thsr* ar*asas la thia OTDKL in vhloh th*re ar*r*ups and *ach gr*up haa flvantlag tho chiefn.
In the future, tbe Infsraatlen OTfKL villa gr*up nf OTDKLS headed by ear Bpeelnllstn te vhenvlll be given fer Bvaluntlnn ang ahe villfar aattara af anient if le lntaraat accordingfrest KHRUHICHKV and tha higher cenanltts*. Theyevaluate th* natvrlala received and pasan
Sngllah) Something la net clear X hav* aaan Aster lean delegations ge ta th* OS3R. Tsr example,
i agrlonltnral delegationsand they dealt directly vith tha 1 Minis tsrgriculture. Sthsy vlll g* through ua. I Our specialist aa agriculture vlll arraage for all tbe viaita 1 t* JGSlkhasos and arrang* all conference*. Far example, en tba '.h ef May th* Ontario Prevlnc* agricultoral chief, Mr.
; 5POONRR, will arrive. Friar t*owingnve
! lnatruetleos ta tbaTDKL, apaclflcally te ULTAlflHKO wha had been hare before. Ivory thing gees through oa but we order the foreign section af tha Minlatry af Agriculture to prepare an itinerary ta vlalt faraatry raaearch cantera for tho thing* SPOOKKR la iatsrsstsdsst firs prstsetlsn, insect csntrsl snd fishsrlo*. Fsrder theae sub-sections ef Agriculture but deal thr*ugh ths MinisterAgriculture, which haa ite *va ferslgn aeotlea.
lft. J: Deee tbla Include the pure sciences and the Aoademy af Science? h* Academy of Sclencee ba* all kindsceaparabl* activity,oordinate everything. Thej willxamine natorlala ebtalnodsu and vill resolve centradlctlens and determine whore prlaa.
10. Q: What la ths *rersll atrsagth af year OTDKL? Ths OTDKL af Farolgn Rolatlena. ow wo hav* seventy pernana, but la tho future we vlll have. Q: Aro you speaking af tha Directorate af Foreign Relatlena ar Just af year Faralga Re 1stlens OTDKL? 8: isunderstood. ThsProtocol OTDKL haa twenty) then tho Inferaatlen OTDKL baa, in addition te th* flty apselallsto, about twanty-flre RKPKREHTY. Thia amy include sen* stenographers. Ths largeot OTDKL la ear OTDKL ef Ferslgn Relations, a* thsr* vsuld be
abeut sixty there. About ten ml these soul* be chiefs ef working groups and deputies end about fifty workers. roupf these may bo cadre perseiinel whs Maintain llnlaen with our Ministry ef Foreign Affairs. In addition, there willroup efersons, new titere nra aalyhe will project plana far eur visiting delegatlena. Thoy Maintain Hainan with tho Soviet Travel Commission ef the Central Committee. First af all, they consult with ua and aak which individual membersroposed delegation we recsetaenduarterly basin.
lanned twoanada this Spring. Thia is submitted te this grsup roperta ta the Central Committee. Far example, we he planned te aendelegatlene in tho first quarter.
Forlanned two delegatlena far
uarter. Of thess,
2 are to go te Canada, bo many te England, etc. At the aaae time, we already have tentative plana far delegations to be neat during theuartern of the year. All thia is nubalttod to the Central Committee fer analysis and in the proposed delegation are included KGB officers and GRU efficera. but if the delegation lnsmall andew specialists can ge, then there will be ceepted speclaliata ef GR0 and KGB or beth. Thia group la really an OTDXLEHITR, All of thla la, first ef all, baaed en the soientific Intelligence lalaaien plan. Specific itema af Information aro then act forth aa mlssisna fer selected apeclallata but, af osune, thia la te supplement Intelligence ebtalned through agents aince delegatlena cannot answer all questions ef lntereat.
Since thla group is else underete aay that tho Directorate cenalats ef threethla planning 0TDBL8RITB? ea. Thia PlanningGrsup la alee called the Planning Center and they ait in
a ream all by themesIves nnd select members of our delegatlena by name.
Ht 8 thl" ceerdlnoted with the agaat wsrk? fter tho name Is aubmltted te the Central Csanitise Exit Commissionthoy check him cut completely threugh KGB and
andt him Psrmlaalen te go abroad, ifRG hnve spec if ic intelligence Information which we want the delegation member te obtain, ho will be called directly
jjjtt.'i-t' >tt -X'
GRU Headquarters and beission briefing. When he enters the mission, which we nlways call the Soientiflc-Military Mission, he theneoreoy agreement under penalty of punishment. This man would now be called aooopted by GRU.
I, myself, and others like me in theission of spotting young, promising sclentisteatatus who could be used as illegals by BRKRERKV.
He would have topecialist, however, and thia la an ndicntion of howTintenslyely "they are stressing scientific intelligence. Thus far ire have-not found^erven one Such-specialist. At least not sinceI've been with the Committee, but we are still looking. Should we find an acceptable person, he then would be taken for illegals training and thla le, from theiresirable thing aince after all in the GRU we do not train specialists or scientist*.
What does the KGB do? St They do exactlything. G: What are the functions of the KGBnre directly aeeigned to your Committee? 8: Thethe KGB group there Is^LETIH, whoolonel, Just aa
I am. His Deputyieutenant colonel, whoseon't recall, and he also sits in the same OTDBLo. Theytotal of abouteople In the Committee and, in addition, they have aboutGB ooopted persons.
^2) G: Do they report on the others? s: Absolutely. The cooptcd onea are all conformists who will report ifis said against KHRUSIICHBV. annot goeception without one of them accompanying me. This KGB officer will watch me but he will do stupidundred fold moreill. He will get drunk and he will behaveon-KULTURNA manner. He will etill report on me, however, even if he doesn't know the local language. Qt In addition to thia do thoy not have intelligence missions? 8: Of course they do.elieve that thle man who came with me, LOPATO,oopted KGB worker. Their mission la primarily political intelligence, although they do have aeoondary^Iaalona of general intelllgenoe and, of course, they report on nil others of the Soviet delegation. For example, last Decembernvited Wynnelso Invited some of our specialists. Since the food and drink were free, they got
Thr KOD report maid thnt theseshould net be inetted again since they den't knew hen? ts behava bsfsrs fsreliners.
23. J: Theretata Coremlttse fsr Defease Technology. what la tha relatlenehlp between thatid ysur cessslttsor bsolutely right, therm lamit tee. Aad lt la under the Csuncll af Ministersentirely separata. J: There lasssslttss for Radio Elootraalea. hese csswlttees ara psrely_solsntif io_ nd they contact ua far Informationheir Tftlsm. Thsy way provide? ene^ef their iHnebers for Indusien in aaa af eur deane. Thsy giro an thia aaa far training ta ebtaln intelligence Infermatlsn desired by tha cenwittsa. Tha committee 1teeIf canslata af very highly trained and trusted individuals bat re handle tbalr iatalligsacs rsou.lremoota fag tbsa. Oar efforteag; tha Savlat balsa muchend are'giving than vary ralaabla Infarstatlaa. suld suggest that your big peepie csnalder thia problem. ealize that lt la net peaslbla ta cut off all delegations, sines thsy fit lata tho acheeto sf thlaga af diplomatic ralatlsna and politico, but waya should ba reviaed far making oar vis It lag dele rot lens Ineffectual. That la by systematically limiting them ts very Ineccueun lafermatlsn.
a:ill sand ysu aa ergmnlxatlenai chart of tho OnTKlassified telephone directory,an got vith amee. Ths re ysu vill final ths full name and telephone number sf all tha members. Iaave looked up ln tha right-hand dravor af ay dank reports of all ay agent material. ould have brought lt this tlmia In my aultcaso buTI vaa afraid ts da thia. nov lt would not fit lots sry peokot. ouldn't llks ta trust Itnitcaaa and, though they weuld never searchas) undsr rfunplclsn, lt is poaalbls that thsy aay requemt ta aaa the contents sf ny suitcase. Althsmgh ts date, that haa not been dsaa, sloes thsy knewolonel. If thmr over did I'd have ta run to *no embassy sr thaen't knew which ens. (Jokingly) oold eusnroet yen ran ta the nearest sns. (Jokingly) 8) It irritated ns t* reallasira aa
thv sum street where tha British embassy la located, aadat aoreea from. Bubasey, aad nebeey vanId walk aat taould give my material.
38. O: Chalk eff yeur nates, yeu willelephone nam bar te call upon your arr Ival in Baseaw and we willroper time, at Presumably yoa willme all klnest of las tract lens aad requestseave. Ot Of course wo will. ould very anallyhone callrrive. I'll walk out telass of beer end gohono booth. Than yeu will not worry if all is well or not. Regardingill drop in tomorrow. Ot What time will you eome? flt Lot me figure ltill tell yeueaveeuld even arrange lt that if later someone would call nerrlrtnm In my name that vould bo sufficient to receive materialsave arranged for. g: It would be better if yeu had in traduced him personally. f course it would. nly suggest this othor mesneariant. Ot Have yeu studied yeur one-time pass yet and 1nstractlane for ceding; by numbers? STee, bat wo shall review thle again. r: let us oo the eaall things nev because the doctor will be here ininutes.ranslate*.)
S: PLonse explain te mo tho algnnl plan procedure fer rndie^fransmlaalen. thy la the number repeated again niter tho first tmnemlseien? Ot That is an order to repeat tho entire message the second time and te Indicate to yeu that it la the second transmission, stid net understand that yesterasy. When the instructor comes again and brings tho eno-timo padsequested, I'd like to review tho procedures ef which groups cane firat. Gt Aa seen aa tba larger pads areill shew yeu thle. It le very almple. llustrates te Subject how tho book indicator and the line lndlentor ia tared.. Subject on de rat sod.)
at ave written aut certain- questions fer the deotoV'Bbeut medicineave to bring back. These are aat fer mo. Ia it alright te give then to himrete them In my own bond? Ol We will translate It all. a It alrighteak my own photograph with the Hlnoxaa practicing? f course, it la. The photegrnphsr ia our ova man and ve have the negative. siaa warried. Oi Well, I'm trying; te reneeure yeu that there la nothing ta fear from that direction.
8i an leaving tn came ham, tho Chief ef tho Personnel Seotien ef the QNTK aaked me te bring back the following medicine fer him! It is called crlpaness in ampules. Itedlcstien lnthe treatment fer oancer. Seme eno ef hia ralatlrea needs this. We can get lt in tbe USSR but with great difficulty ana it is said to be vary effective, oi What qunatltlea do yen need? mall quantity. It la nseSl aa en injection. Another man asked* me te get tableta te roetore vitality. leeedicine, fer relief of kidney atene pains. Oi This eheuld be atopic; vhat type ef trouble. Ia lt atone or Infectlan? St It'a for stones end it la called Reeatinex. It ia manufactured In Went Germany. We got it In email quantities in the USSR. S: The Chief ef the Pretecel Sector of our committee la suffering from headaohe spasms. He used te work fer HOLOTOT at one time. quae* ta hydrecertecene. Thla la fer exxsma. Thererne tablets one taken fer thla. Also there are aalvea.
Bt Hew fer myaelfI need eome effective aalvo ctlvitia. Thla may be in liquid formalve. The doctor can leek at me and aeeeed. Hy aye eight is perfectet this red Inflammationicked up in Turkey. lae need same dental plastic pintea. as wounded, my Jawbone broke,ave aeme plaotlc teeth which have broken. ouldental plastic plate te match the color ef my teeth,ave aa excellent dentist in hsaaev whs can replace the brokeo pieces. Oi In ether words, yeu need the material ta match yeur teeth and yeur dentiat will de tho work? hat's right. Oi Do yeu knew the kind of dental aeterlal. Za lt acrylllo? s:on't knew. What my dentlet aaid vns tbat thereet ef platesox and when the proper caler la matched from these the proper teeth ahape is etamped out and that ia all there ia te it. One mere small feverIupply ef those little ehecelatea, Gi That la very almple. That la only Ex-Lax. Tea, but we have much difficulty getting it in the USSR. Thla laequeat. e'll get lt fer yeu. The aeotor will writereacrlptlen fer whatever can be obtained directly. Stan'treacrlptlen myaelf. e will get It fer yeu.
Si This is my satire medical Hat. fa hav* all af tbaas things frem tla* ts tlms in tha USSR but thsy ara hare* ts gat. Anyway thia la what I'ts written sut fart*r. Ssrgey SKRGETK7XCH (VARKKTSOV) asked me ta gat bin tba vitalityls* bava taight filtereadeloa. Tea den't knew hav It la. When they knew yen ars going abroad, svorysne askaarticular iter*. n henently tailing you vhat they requested st* ts dask yarn te! l, v* vill gat it for yeu.
30. ld like ta oxpree* my ainoerw apprenlstleh fer th* way yen hav* suppertod Wynne materially. Yesterday, h* meatlenad it t* m> and appeared t* b* vary varyhank yei fer thia aad It indicates te m* that yau valoe me highly far having dan* this. an't imagine saying farewell te yau and net meeting again vith ysu lntbe near futuxs. Penslbly I'll fly t* Canada and yam vill meet a* there.a Canberra ln An*trails. new vhat ta d* new. lll aend hack vith Wynne tha materialav*ill b* ahl* t* phet*graph many document* aad manual* with ths Hinex. Then ysur peeple vlll haws n* deubts *beut moer. If only Wynne vill make ne mlatak*. en't worry abeut him. Rs vlll pass tha material te th* Embassy at anee and it vlll ba In oaf* handa. But wo want ta advise yau net ta takeees chance* ando* that lt la te* risky te get couplet* material, take only vhat la safe t* got and let tha reat ge. Tear personal security la afalue ta us than svsry last bitinfermatlen. Ws ara net greedy fer Intelligence if lt lnvslrs* unnecessary personal risk. 81 Thank yen fer that and* my werk in an outstanding faahiaa and Wynne fulfills hla part, vlll yeu giveeceraties? Ot That ia pens lb le hut that would be determined after ba has accomplishedk, W* den't promts* one seet*thing prior t* hla having dene it. at R* looked very pleased yesterday. Hs lamall addition t* hla office. It's very neat sad nadoat but be dee-n't area have mensy ta finish it. Baeat placs but livensdsat aaalef hla wife la ala* wo dost. Teatordayk aa> *ut talubs and than ah*ary fin* dinner and v*awasta. Ot Wher* de yau get all thia energy and at th* same tin* a* Bleep? 81 v*B
danced yesterday butelaxed andine dinner.ta what vnaX couldn't help bat think hev impossible it la te get these thlnga la the USSR. Rvan tomatoes are axtremely expensive. Everything thera la builtack ef Ilea and the peepleowerful feroe vhlch Is aethlng but demAgeguery. If veemocracy aa appealtlea party veuld develop at enoe but ltelice atate and vhen erjixrrOT, whs vna sepperteduabar af intelligent paapla, aaid something against tha regime tbay vara all squeezed ant at anca and they vera net far from being shet. Althsugh thesa days that la net dene, aa lt had been befera. he decter will arriveew alnutea. naPILOVery Intelligent nan.
31. Ot Since yeu mentlenedary important queatian comes te alnd. Tall aa, la analyzing intelligence alas tensorld-wide scale, with reepect te OR0 and ROR, at what level are the nlaalens Draught together fer anas and assignment? Where la the level and she participates la determining the assignment ef missions! tha review af alaalen pregreee periodically; the assignment af paras nasi af 0R0 nnd KGB according te priorities? Si Xt'a Ilka thlaKGB dees aat knew about our agent nota and ve ao not knov about theirs. All Inforestion obtained fron clandestine sources gweo forward te the appropriate interested committee of tbe Central Committee of the Cemaunlst Partyhat la matters dealing with specific ridus tries, war preeuotiea. ate. Political infermatien geea lo the Political Committee ef tho Central Committee. The overall Central Committee lo aa enormous organisation. They decide everything elnce they control tho entire industrial structure ef the USSR. All dec la lens are aada by thea and by tba Praesldlum.
82. Oi Isommittee called tha Ceerdlnatlng Committee fer Intelligence Actlvltlea? e, net ae auch, but alnoe the Individual oemmltteoa of tho Central Committee are the brains for each particular rip id ef lntereat. They decide vhat mlselena should be assigned to the ORD andrwhicb te the BOB and la ceaeispute between the ORO and KOB
regnrAing slots, thsow it tee wakes the decision. The Central Committeeender voice than KGB snd KnRUSHCHEV had reorganized the KOBemmltte* te keep closer central af the RGB ussier himself. ua ly under BERXA many matters wars held up by tho BOB without the knowledge af tha Central Csnmittes.
33. Oj Lot us take an exampleaaaune that in Lvnden tho GRO RKZIOTHTURA hasen and tho KGBho bad determined thia allacatlan ef slats as wall as tho specific coTora given ta each? Si Tho Central Committee determined this and tbe alets vara provided by tha Ministry e* Foreign Affairs aa directed by tho Central Csnmittes. Everything ia dene by ths Central Committeej fsr example, when HcClelleu waa ta come and thsy wanted ts allotubles fer hla exponas* includingiles. stc, tho Central Committee decided thia. ISilet af counsellor in seme embassyRU officer, he would request the Central Corralttee ta Instruct tbe Ministry of Foreign Affairs te provide thio. The Central Committoo Is enormous; thereeople there.
iWhe cms the Central Committee call fer consultation enmatters, tha Dlreetarata oalef ar "APHAYLKRITK chief? S! Ha. here'e hav lt varka. Tha Cantral Ceaaalttee verkers concerned with tba cnudirectly ta tha ORU headquarters. These ara aat tha ohlafa in tha Central Cemlttee office* but they are called loatruetera. Remember that the lna true tare, however, from the Central Cennlttee enjoy the privileges and peveregional cemlttee member ef tbe Caerranint Party. They have vehlolea, DACHAS, and all nines ef fancy feed alletmenta. They have treaendeua atature sue te their Party peeltlen. The verd ef such aa instruetar la every thing ferinister. It le law. Since the 1netmeter represent* the opinion ef tha Central Committee. Thla la particularly true fer siniatere whe are atrsight gevarnaent peeple and net membera af the Central Committee themselves . SSROV cannet senand three eeuneeller aletei h* aust submit his request te tbe Central Csomlttes whe will make the decision.
Hew ee they trace agents? Sty the OHO, they check hie muse with the KOB. rior KGB interest, the KGB aImply states that thera
rior interest In hla and te break aff contact. Oi De they cheek their prospects with yeu? St Ha, because they know if we have an interest or net since ve have always checked eur ngente with then earlier. If we have an agent mam they approach hla thea we aayepert af oeoiplalnt baaad en eur priority.
(The phone rings and the esc tor whe haa entered the lebby la being met by agent.) (Subject speaks about hla hearteassures bin te tell the doctor all hla aynpteeai aad he will have hla examination. There la ne security problem since the doctor belongs te the Intelllgenoe service. While waiting fer tbe sector, Subject speaks further en tho topic above.)
st All none traces aro conducted in aoscev by the KGB. Remember that all Intelligence personnel, whether they are 0R0 or KOB, attempt te got all ef the information, aa well as reerulta, that they can. They have ana ciianii mission and that la to dot ermine aa aeon aa peeaible any indications aa the partateatlal hostile country af any preparations far hostilities. o luces, ef course, troop movements, redeployment ef troopa, etc. Conversely, thia la
new my mission with respect te yeu. ill advlae yeu anyan ef any Impending moves whloh nay indicate hostilehink we'll ba able tereat deal for you in tho futuro. Ot We will go alowly and yeu workeng period of tins but when the time comes fer yeu te neve cut. ve will consult with ysu en, prellaln-inary measures te get yeur familyosition fron which thay can sscape easily. For example, if they could got te the DDR aad vieit
Kent Berlin it vould beto cross to Vest Berlin by subway. But, of course, vith no suitcases, since the Soot Sermon police could atop anyoneuitcase. That la Just one mena and ve vlll figure out others aa tins goes on. Si Xn eeee of host Hiould like to knov oererel months beforehandould nore ny fondly out of tbe area vhere tbe Hoecov Military Pdotriet Headquarters Is, and vould be blown up.
t thia ixsnsat the doctor entered and vas Introduced to Subject.) o Dri hall leere youbort vhlls to Qecrge and the patient. Dri First of all, I'd like to askew emotions. 0: Be nontioned two portlculor things that ba lo concerned obout. Oneuestion ofental plate for bis tenth. BO was wounded during tbe war and needs sane teeth to replace the broken ones on bio prosthetic. Dri Pine, ve cen get together on that later. Ot The other natter io that he thinks he has ecnjunctlvitu*. Dri Bow old srs youT rerialetea all1 bS. Dri Did you here say serious Ulneoses since youears old? 8i Pneumonia atears old. Dri Sine* then? Bt Ho, Dri Vhat else! St ever hod typus or anything else. Dri Any operational 81 Only on the Jaw and see* after being wounded. as also shell-shocked. Dri esoeBl Bi n nervous by nature but not asines. ere had angina, but since my tonsils wereearsare not had lt any more. (Further medical dots ao follcwsi eeth lost after being veunded ln Jevi hod carbuncle removed. Bns carbuncle on am which Boriet medico attribute to malnutrition ia youth. Smokes rarelyi doe* not Drinks normally, not to excess. Mother le alivej father killed la revolution. Both were healthy. Is earrled. Wife healthy)ealthy. Bo symptoms at tbe moment! occasionally has slight spasms of heart, (shoving left side of chest, not vhere, which Soviet doctor* told Mmearly symptoms of arterial sclerosis. The spasms began Irregularly ainco the warforears. Spasms begin when highly tense nervously. Has goodo Indigestion, sleep* well. Bo shortness oft My only trouble nowhe redness In myontractedears egoas ln Turkey. It cones and gees, lack of aleep aggravates It. (Dr. examinee hlari Thateed for questions. Bow I'd like to cxmaia* hln.
^ (subject waa asked to disrobe to Mo underwear sad to lay down on tbo bed for exomdnntloa. While Subject vas disrobing, th* doctor vac shown the list of medietas* requested by Subject for others and the list of alleged purposes tho medicines were requested for. Subject was rery thoroughly eaomlned by th* doctor primarily for any symptoms of heart trouble. Blood pressure vae token snd Btethoscoplo examination
mnde. Vith tha lights oat, Subject'e pupils were examined with on eveSt (Returning after dressing himself again) Thank you veryyour attention to ne. Dri will you explain theae re que ate for1 eee on thle chart (prepared Oi Theae ere the aedieineaend these are the reasons given. Dri 1 cheek on thiasoy be en Italian preparation. oubt if it la uede la England or fU eheek on thia tut lt any take tine to order it. <u ATI7EX for kidney atonae. Thlehat oeraan Vb will try to net theae tvo Bedlelnee but lt aay be difficult. Otoat la Hydro-Cartesalve, for exaeaa. Dri an
that. Ho trouble. Thia ia for external nee. Ot Ba eats if there is aay medicine that csn be taken internally, aa drops, for exaoaa. On Thia cannot be taken internally for exsenaill get some tranquilizero reduce rmrvous tension which ha says producetha exsena and thenthe salve nay alleviate it. I'll also sat hla an eye salve vhieh aay not cure his condition completely but will alleviate it and in tlxe it nay go away completely. I'll bore toentist about the dental material he requests,
.aO. Dr: Bo far as ay examination can tell, tell Ua this. Bbhas no arterial sclerosis and whatever doctors told him that he did were very nasty. Tlrst of all, since be felt hla apasms on tbe lefte era ago, bs would have been only R7 years of age et that tins. Arterial eeleroels never etarts et such sa early age and he certainly shove no signs of it now.ooked into his eyas, not only te examine tba redneaa which ia completely external and which will go ovcy in time, but there la no algn of blood disturbance in the retina of hla eyes vhiehtrong Indicator. In general, his blood pressure, pulse snd everything else la entirely normal. Thirdly, for hla information, his heart la not vhere he thinks it is. It la right ia ths middle, not on tbe left. Tba apaan he feels when nervous are not abnormal, other persons feel reactions from nervous stress in tbe form of headaches or indigestion. Beervous spasa or twitch on his left aide. Tbat ia all normal. I'lleport on the urinalysis later but everything looks quite normal to ne. Subject thanked doctor for hla attentionoot ted the doctor out. '
Jjl. St uess we should get back to work. Gi I'd like you to look at some pictures of rockets taken from theear ago. But I'd like to waito return. St Youeverything about the work of my committee then? Gt Yes, St You should gradually restrict the activities of our Gl Let us start from this very important question. What did VARENTSOV.say on the sub lect cf tlCBMs after KHRUSHCHEV made the statement that you had* all"kinds of ICBMs In readiness? Jt Thisery Important question. That Is why we are gMng over lt again. St The basic Idea of this on the part of rOWUSH-CHEV Is to take the Initiative and to Impress upon the minds of Western leaders that he already possesses In large quantities these mf sV les which he e'ther does not have at all, or hasew ol.
h?- St Often there are tests of one characternother which In many Cases are even successful, but he already yells about this as an accomplished thing. Thus the whole idea of KHRUSHCHEV and of the PW-SIDIUM Is to demonstrate and toin one way or another such as launchingPUTNIK, evenan In space. In order to Impress your military leaders that the Soviet Union haa everything. This is to force your go-vcrnmenj._jeaders. and military people to do their planning on the assumption that the Soviet Union alreadyremendousehlial, when in reality it Is only being developed. And eVeiT'Se'rgey Sergeyevlch (VAnENTSOV) remarking directly on the words of KHRUSHCHEV said to me, "Oleg, we are ortly thinking about these things, only planning, even though we have had some successes here and there. to get anywhere one hasncrease production tremendously and to train cadres.n
I*3- Ss Thus beginning with the Idea of trainingArtillery Academy (now Rocket Academy)ascomplementnd" Lhe ShnuRI graduating And even though this is only this onegraduates will still require several years of practicaland training before they can he. effective. Withto this the effort is significant and the scale ofalso significant. Billions of ruoles are beingrder to develop rocket technology. entionedand gave prcfif and Indications thereoflsoseek, for further proof, and despite the facthas constantly said that there is an enormous amount
to be done not only with catlres, but also with equipment, rocket-types, etc. KHRUSHCHEV la yelling that we already have allthis. He saysave to do Is toand and he
can fire rockets In the direction ofwhy Is he not
doing this? This.
**V Si Sergey Sergeyevich (VARENTSOV) said that they can hit the continent of North America', but toarget at this great distance, no. Oi Exactly when did VARENTSOV tell youi this! St Me told me thia at dinner and at his dacha;ear |lons he mentioned this three or four or even five tines". He said that we have in our arsenal operational, that la,kets, and we have rockets that_caxi reach South America, thVTJnlted Spates, or Canada, but not-accurately. re such rockets deployed at missile basest These teat rccheta, which era still undergoing further tests are not on bases. They do not have the capabilities of even firing one'or "two. They do not even have hundredsesting status. They may have only tens tn that category. Even Ih sendingPUTNIKan In space they have all of the_sclentlsts and rocket technology mobilised for the "effort, andPUTNIK Is launched they have several_ifaIlures. Several men were lost In their efforts tnan in space. You probably everi'Keard that the dogs were lost somewhere In the ether. as told that there were several unsuccessful tests with humans. Ji When did you say that VAfiENTSOV said this? St Several times this yearndumber of He also complaIned that more money 'a needed for rocketry.
Si The main Idea now oftatements Is to create an effect cn external ears, but the preparations are being carried outTrie tendency is to attain mass production. Those tactical rochets which have already been developed sre being produced Jh greattl as, and they can be launched at sny time tb Ihe extent of their operational ranges. But with respect to ICOMs, they have had one failure after another.alieht and they ccntlnue to'^Kfow'mi1 lions into the effort snd if they have one success then It la used to Impress you,lpeople by pretending that there are hundred of these. But there are ng_such hundreds. That Is only Idle talk. However, keep In mind that one day they w'll be there. This must be assumed since the entire economy and politics are geared for such development. The basic problem 'a touge rocket with respect .ia.
tho war head size, batigh_calaria fual whiohapaca. On paper they even have some^ success therensiTTisns ef wen'srts" ore directed iawerk nnd that the entire eceneayntien ne directedens-party ayaten te vhlch allubordinate, they con deeventually they will werk eut ouch rackets and they willultimately in mnse production. In ny own eplnlen,eplnlen hereery insignificant rele becausevery important natters and ny eplnlen does net countI na an officer intho general staffafter all,thla air of rocketryould any that in twoyears thoy will have auch rockets soreloped. Theredefinite developed typea In .
46. Ot What was the thinking bookhen.RKCBLIH vaa put in charge of the se-cslled Reckst Directorate? st Simply fer tho purpose ef centralising control and "to aeparato the Ground Force weapons fren the Strategic weapons nnd that
NKDKJ.iN would hare no interference in his work for which ho was Allottsd billions in money ni well aa factories and "dentists te do this werk. Evan now it aay bo poaelble thateemowhore' in the frar East er in Kapustin Tar there nay be eene
reckete whichether continents an* oven detonate with an atomic, even hydrogen-type explosion. But auchwould be completely unplanned,n* certainly netass variety. Ofa entirely aura, but In two or three years there willifferent picture. Thla is becauseremendous effort ie being devote* to this. ven aaw with my own eyes at tho end9 an order which gal* that the monies to bo economised sa the result of various dismissals froa the army and people put en pension would be designated fer'kindergartens1hla la slang far rocket construct ion.)
47. Ot Do the students at tho Artillery Academy wear j distinctive insignia' St He, under no circumstances. AllM the basic nllltary branch insignin. Most ef them wear the black insignia af artilleryhat ia, tho conventional rifle artillery. Do" you remember theave you about at sale artillery? That is, tho technicalasse* you concerning -fj-pf aa atomic cannonortar^/At th* parade la
he dragged eat tee conns na. They vere eneraeua. These werem cannons. Itifle cannon. There was even so order hy KHRUSHCHEV te Impress the Americans aad the British aad te shew theae cannona ns if they were In mans__prodactlen. They eo net usually take off tbe covers. Anyone who see* netermit te enter Houssannot ass these weapeaa unless they are covered. But at thia parade tho covers were removed and photography was permitted te impress the observers. Alter all, the technical eetellewere nefrevenle*. These were ehewnime when thsre were very few af then te give tho impression that there vere. ere of them, but sines thenumber have beennoes your long range air force have anyontrol ever roeketa? Si He, they don't, but tbey will have |centre1 ever tbe atonic bombs that they can carry.
That le clear. Hew in order te clarifyen. Remember yeu aaid that theefns lata afnlta. ot me seenotes. (Subject: was sheen nates.) roteat tho launching paea and te tho immediate rearBP combet-reaay rockoto. Thla isattalias.
Ot However, hew "la this allocated? The bnttallen has alx launching pads. Thereeuated rocket and ene randy te fire. het'a right and the root of them aro echeloned book ready to mors up aa needed, bat the total B: a It thea that if there are alx en the peas and alx ready,aw la it that they manage te get offhots as he reported? In ether words, with alx firing and'alx ready te fire, hew could tbey have time te get tha ether two late place?ranslates.) Si That's aaay. Xa the first plsce, la the Sverdlovsk area there were two battalJomi, net ene, and both fired at It aa huppended that the new battalleiT^hsTTrvaaTuet deployed there vas tha ene vhlch hit POWERS but tbo other vas firing aloe.
That makes lt clear. But tell no, are therebattalions for the Sverdlovsk area? Bt That's alland tbeyis* apace but whoa your pianos flewor six tines before, they were far enough away froninstallation te bo out of range ae they ware not fired nt.
At thnt tine BIRYTJZOVeprimand far not being able to protect important laetallatlena frea hostile aircraft. Since than tha defenses hare been relnfarced but they ara atlll vary Inaufflalant ta protectarge area.
00. Oi Let ae carer theae aaa.ll de telle, vhloh are very In portent an rochets. Thenhsv pan th* pic tore e. When ths doslgnatleai vhat dee* the 61 n? ST Whenever thea vrltt*n, that la thselded alaslle, and tha correct designation hut claaalfled laar the alaalle yeu mentioned. Rut th*as reference te eesnt productlen assol serial, exaotly Ta* net knev hov lt refer* te thin. Or Similarly, tha Rl is called the BAll. aad the R2he BZH38. ht What ieesnalean? Si Thor** waythe relatleaahip ef these number* te the rocket*. Ot Hew about, and the etheraDe thoy have similar equivalent"doolgnatlene? St Of eaurae, they hav* definitely similar deelgnatlens,on't knev vhat they are. Tbe signIfleant thing ts remember la that the prefixoalgnatesea lie*. hat ae tbe lettara, suchad EH nean? s: Paeeibly they mean shopalladsxvs, out I new, g:aveopyypographic error. Please tall me whloh la correct. Ial tb* aaaa aaf tb* Thia dee Is with foal and logically would be the him. fl: That laopying error. It should heer bath af thea. Sometimes thia fuellmplyOWOAumber behind lt. er* is another queatl*a. Ten wreto here about th* valghtaunching fuel, puskuvogo OOKIfXHRWOi exaotly what la it? St Thia la aa Igniter furl vblohirst aet eff and vhlch, in torn, throughot sequence, lgnltea the main fuel mixture. It is called the Initial fuel end has its ovn separate tank. Ot la lt used te heat up the vther fuel* navenaath* racket? St That ia exaotly right.
hydrogen type, lo
vhother it'a of one plutonlum type
51. 0. ange here ef0 kilometers, butilometer* when the racket haa an atomic warhead. Why la tbe"rang* cut down vith the atomic warhead? 8: That la alnply becauae ol tba weight ol tha atonic warhead,
much heavier. But th* fuel quantity thrust and the fuella the bum. Therefore, lt iaatter ofand the nana charge la used in all ofeS?-? Therefore, th* rang* la cut down almost by ons=fialf atonic warhead* are used instead of
In order to have ths longer range using warhead, either the alee ef the rocket auat be Increased toreater quantity of fuelore highly caloried fuel muat be used and they do not do thle.
^52 q- iM tha warhead container tho asms ln construction and aire for atonic aaconvsntlonal varheada? Bi Thoy areidifferent because they require differ*nt_ahapea. This la primarily due to the temperature regulating squlaerent whloh ia required for atomic, as con pa red to conventional, varheada. There ars all kinds of intricate heating and cooling lnatrumants and piping for winter and for Summer uae.
B3. O: Another esmll correctionat the launching aite youesignation for the oxidiner as Later you wrote Presumably the AK ahould be an ok. 3: It ahould be OK, Bine* ok stand* for oki3litel. Incidentally, all of th* data ia chart form ara exactopied then directly from manuals.
84. Ot Bow many launch points can bo served by one supply depot? fl: Say tb* main supply depotilometers away and brings up th* rockets by railoint BQkllo-meters away. This la ths immediate aupply baseiven Bins unit auohattalion. There la no limit after the number of rocketa held in reserve at this supply base. They would have th* minimum organisational rocketa for the unit supported but tbe tactical situation or tha expected rate of fire vill dictate how many rochets are at tb* supply bane at any given time. Thia is determined by the higher command.
65. Ot Oa your sketch an element of doubt came1 rocket information aay* that th* battalion has three batterlea of two pad* aaohalvo of six rockets, but ononTy thrs* launching pad* are" ernowh, St hlaade thia aketch to illustrate thedistances between pads, tho technical position and the supply baee. There ar* three other pads further offid not Bhov theae.
wlt5toa. tbo minimumOTilcmetera.an av.rlge of
iv1*0 dooo thi. noon? 81 Whlchon tho basis of ths fuel
ano jt%ir^?rrTheCRnortsrnd it canaximum.
"j- si ss thi!Dythe TOluno of th* ntits is alwaya constant nnd so lo
jus! " thon fallhorter' The balance of tha umiaed fuelmply waated.
at t'jlij'i * 8howhotographa of roeketaIaHL e rsohecked and wo
can add thla to your others.looking at photograph no,hi.roa rocketelieve it ia the" ths
(looking at photograpb no. 3) 81 This.is tha typical
ooking at photograph no. 3) gi Thisevelop-
It had never been produced In
awayo troops. It is notlit
^ aone intermediate enperlnsntal rocket which was SSt bserver, and to protend that auch rockets lltr, i*ct ave aeon it before and it appearaevelopment of.
tno. 4) 8i Thiaree rocket, dry fuel propulaion and looks like the
Jlo?kln5hotograph no. B) 8! Thia la alao.a^ *Zl 'Uellooks likei How.th*doea not have ita baaket-like cover but the launchers are the same as In the earlier models
^Subject looking nt photograph no. 7) Ht Thia one
it'ieherebomo doubt "hj
aaie it wasx) before. 81 Thiaree rocket with
a dry fuel charge and lt la tha SKI.
66. (Subjsct'e no tan vara examined together with him * ol,ow-nK olarlf leatloaa ware mada. The expressy Subject toeat coefficient air kilogram multiplied by ealorlea per cram.) St usaian lettera and terms are used throughout except vhen i' ' internationally accepted Latin abbrevlatloao are used such aa ytf x" hareeat ralne.
66. Ot Oa thend 3R3 reports thereissing or Illegible word in connection with the magnitude of the powder charge. Hov ahould thia value read? St This ahould be kilogram matera par kilogram. I'm sorry ltlear. You should have seen hovad to vrite thiaeard footsteps coming. m not belling yonnly want you to clarify It^O: Whans were mentioned, were their yields stated? 8: Thia dependa on what the tactical alaalon ia and hov far removed ground aero la fron friendly troopa. Oi ean vhan they give youlid they atata vhat atomic yields oach rocket la designed for? Si Thsy have variable yields. I'm glad you naked thia. Although we hare sotary small yield atomic weapona auchilotons, ve do haveilotons and jjp. Rockets can have atomicmountedwhich hars several different equival-enta. Ot You are aaauming thenarhead that canertain yield of atomlo charge ean alaoa grsstsr ylsld vlthla tba aaaa apace. 8t Yes, tbers are warheads which can bars various atonic yields ln the aame space. emember working problems with ths ssms rocket which had two different atomlo yields. Thsy are novn having numerous atomlo yields for ths same alasheot photos of the launching installationsths instructor vno was an expert on these had been at _thetea and hadumber. Hs had acnes extra copfes and told me io paste it into ay working folio as an annex. At the end of the course our vorklng; folios vera picked up and deetroyedid not paate ln the photos, and kept them.
67. o H: ust have tvo mors short lists to aak . him about. Pleaae find hla notea on the TRA and on mlncsllany. Ot To what extant ars spsar sis components of missiles provided by industry snd to what sxtsnt doea the aray build tha mlaellee? St Kvsrythlng Is built by industry. Thsy then aaaembls the parts, at ths rocket bases and atora then aa dry rocketa
(uwraed). The amy conduct* all rapairs and maintenance. This is dona at tbo OAU bases but nothing la manufnctured by tha army. We receive everything completely. Toryrepair mould slao be done by tho factory.
68. 01 Ton vrote about arsenals and mentioned the 3rd ypeortar arsenal and the dth typotorage
road that correctly aad thla refers only'to froa roeketa'aunt*are entirely different bases for guided aisslles. (This awas to clarify the writing In Subject's
It says hero that there Waa there notillimeter mortar? there waa. G: When was lt operational? St Thia la an
jaodel which we had at tho end of the World War XI and it conducta alow fire butew_one. Ot Isow obsolete? 8: Ho, they are etiil being used but thoy are not making thea any more.
Whore did you get tho information under-miscellany"? 3: neatly from documents. Thatspecific cociiment for the specific rocket tbe note
. 01 What is this anti-tankTUR3? nfers that it is guided. or-Taat^irigbtiguided missile which la guidedire. The wire la rolled offrum aad guides the nlsslle. ill giro you all the detailsflalle_later. Itery powerful nlsslle but it7 is clumsy to use with tha wire. G: What Is tha using the wire? ank Instead of
0l pbatDM? B. jnieong-ranga gald-
.t# adthinbelong not only atrategic als-I ailes but .pilotless alssiles.
.u " 01 Arem any other aircraft-missilesP-5? si Ho, tbey arojatill being developed. Ot "IPfaif^isjllea? Doesn't that Just moan atonic? of coarse. It la aometlnos aaid that
O* How about free anti-aircraft rocketa? Bi We
A>V ! do not hare then yet but they are alao being worked on.
76. O: Do you recall when they ware firing longfron Siberia or from Kamchatka to aome point ln the,
Pacific Ocean where they even requested an area cleared ln lt>-j* tha impact none? What waa the sucoeaa of this? 3t ' WRS nothingelse but luek. omplete fake. Thia aeems to ' be KJTOUSHCHBVTa policy. elieve that some of theae wild ,j statementa not only are not believed by our nllitary people but also not believed by your ecientleta and leaders. But the idea la to impress tha people of England and America.
Ot Do yououng designer named BUKHQV?
p on't. Qi What_happene'd'"to OURYBT1CH? Kemember
J.u. the partnsr with Ml SOY AH aa the designers of.
77. Oi Bid you ever hear Si ave heard of lt. Itet and lt Is ' lgned by YAKOVUEV. old you thataa In Turkey. ode all over
Turkey for 2ff days andommendation for this. What happened vaa thiaJust after being repaired ln ROSTOV thiaaa en route to BACT. Xt followedrong railroad track* near the Turkleh border and crashedurkey. able from Moscow ordered me to inveatlgate the. reckage and to remove tbe "BRO" equipment if any vaaoard (IFF equipment for_identifying friendly planes). entcolonel from thsTKJB and" found out that no such equipment waa aboard, ao ha left and mader. eport. aa ordered to deatroy tho plane, d to do thia after having bad the flyers released andack to our territory. After tho flroa vers out the plane Iffas atlll whole; ail lt did waa to got charred. Therom MOacow told mo not to worry since the Americans had
; alreadyut of Korea buthouldroy It anyway.got TNT, wired it up and set it offgain the plane waa whole even though the Individual partswere scattered. Finally, after removing all parts ofnlyire left to complete thio Jobired local workmen to hammer the remaining pieoea andieces were then put on "ar.flnall barge and towed out tolack Boa and dumped. Bven than the fishermen complained' that tho nets vould be torn. Of courae,ank tho
I photographed tho remnants and aant them to Moscow.
Do you have any special questions for hla or
do you want to ahow photographs? till have aone questions on the PVO that it would be well to ask if we have tine before going to the pictures. Zn considering the PVO districts, first of all thsy definitely go across boundaries of "the OBLAST military districts, do thoy not? Si Of couras thsy do. Theyumber of nllitary districts. Oi Do you know how they are organised? 8t Let ne tell youemember by name. Tho Moscow OKRUO, then the Leningrad krug, the Sub-Carpathian OKRUGthere la no Baltic okrug. Then further east the Baku OKRUG. Then there ia the OKRUG that covera the entire Uralan't remember its name. And there is .also an OKRUG In the Far Beat. Theae ara the RAYOKI and each haa ito own headquartera (Subject uses the word RAYON looselyj it should be defense district). ThereVO with troops throughout tho whole country andaid that there ia no PVO OKRUG for the Baltic States, they stillVO with tho troops there. The PVO with troopa are subordinatsd to the commander of the military district but the PVO OKRDGs are independent.
Oi Do they hare their own organic aviation? es, thoy do and they ars part of thoir tablsa of organisation.
Did you ever hear of the lateat fighter planes with designation SUthe numbers are low, such aa, Si ave never heard of these. Gi Are tho factories
at KOMSOHOL8K, OMSK, NOVOSIBIRSK, GORKY and TBILISI? 81 theseare all Jin operation but ln addition thoy have factory departments which also manufacture rockets. After all much of the structural work Is the sane'. "
Ot Does the^PVp^Btill depend largely onguns? Si Absolutely, and they have gunsretty high effectiveIn addition they are reinforced.
Oi Iaillinetar anti-aircraft gun the lnrgeat cttliber? Bt now we hare developedll-llmeter gunigh degree of efficiency and! know thereunarger caliberon't want to gusas what that caliber ia. There ars none larger, however, and another rery effective gun Ta theiiilmeter_anti-air-craft gun which is automatic and operates effectively against low-flying
83. Oi What do you consider are the veaknessea of the
PVO of theirst of nil, they dohave'ftnl-flcient humberssof trained personnel. Nov they bars their own schoolsaommand school. Two years ago, Inhey opened an acaooay for the PVO of ths land. This ens the old Installation formerly occupied by the rear services aoadeny imenl KALININ. The old academy vaa broken' up and ita cadres were sent to various other Institutions. For example, the quartermaster serviceortion eent to Leningrad and another portion to the FRUNZE academy. Ths new PVO acadeny is under BIRTUZOV and hasan and technical fncultles. (In discussing how the names of towns are changed at the whin of the Soviet chief of the tins, Subject mentioned that CHKALOV was removed at the whin of STALIN Just aa recenTly MOLOTOV wns renamed PERK. Subject thenketch of bewhlakered clrcleeoviet Joke about ths progreealon of Communlat leadere alnce MARX.)
ov knov vhat you vould like to obtainand if youery tiny wire-type tapecould even copy down everything VARENTSOV eaya, butwork perfectly. Wa have such but they are not We would rather work affective communication meanacompromialng material from you as soon aa posalble.
An Instrument auch as you describe would bo certain avidenca of clnndeatinity.
Since it's getting late, let us look over aphotographs and we'll end this meeting with that.
66. (looking) 8: olonel in strntegic Intelligence. He la now working in RONOVALOV's Secondthe European Dlrectoate In Moscow. or.'t remember hla name. He graduatedid) he ia much older.
(looking) Si Thla man la from tha KGB.
(looking 81 Thia la PBRVOUKHIN, thembassador. He la considered toery intelligence man.
(looking) Si Thia la one of our people la gru; he la in Strategic Intelligence.
(looking) S: Thia one la also ours and le alao In Strategic Intelligence. aw hin in Moscow but that waa sometime ago. Re nay have been aent overaeaa alnce.
t ml) 8* thle i. koflltoik. be ng
ob hief of haphavlkhitrva^ waV
S SiJS^ "d
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81 oru man in
two nam!*. "> thi. ssroetev who hms two w hoolonol and bbhoktbvct hla right namo. haot; nan, vary experienced, and la now la gru.
<looking bt and horo ia mr.xh' ba
hool anfi. nowin japan aadho
06. (looking bt thia man la in tho kgb.
inatructor in foreign laoguageo nt the MDA. married bar thorne in five or nix yearn older thnn hn la.
(looking Si Hernero of tba Soviet Onion. Ha leolonal and he studied at the MDA vith no and graduated ia the claoa of 'S3. Ho vna the aenier aaaistant to ZOTOTrov vaa tha allltary attaohe to France. Ho iaanlor lnatrnotor at tho MDA la tha tactlca department.
fli Thla nan laavehin often.
Ha in nn intelligence officer,
(looking) 8i Hero la an aviator. He had boon Inov ha la working in Hoaeov. He la in the section of Foreign Relatione of tha GoTK. HeRU lieutenant colonel and ie working for theuatn.
(looking) flt HareOB officer. elieve he ia vorklng under novopapernan cover.
(looking) 81 Hetrategic Officer of tho ORB.
81 Lot ne look at none other ploturea during the daytime tomorrow when my hand will bo freah. How aboutX will drop in to aee you in order to pick np thaon HXRRIMAH, and I'll have to go to the embaaay la tbe evening. Ia it alright If we do not meet toaorrov evening?
0i Of course it la. If you're expected at the embaaay, you'd better ba there, s: ill dropittleomorrow afternoonan't tell you the exact time. o will wait for you. tl I'll be abla toalf aa hour or maybe aa long aa one hour. Lot ua work vary intennlvely on tho aeoond of May. Ot Since you plan to go ehop-plng tomorrow in order not to bo aqueeaed for time would you rather come'clock Inatead of'clock? It 'clock ia alright. r
Bt ny tho way, did you take an advance for ne from my accountould have enough to make myent to leave everything with WYHKB. nly plan to take with me one aultoaae with purchaaee. WTNH1 can bring mo one
suitcase next tine h* comes to Moscow and possibly the otheronontor trip;ant to but nil ths things myaelf. ant to tabs back with mo nov Is thiol hole maes of small inexpensive Items, then nn expensive gift for VARENTSOV and tho itemsromised to bring back to my wife. For thisequest an advance from my account. Bt How much do you want now? s: (laughing) Hov much in there? ant to buy now aro acmemall diamond 0! Remember that we also plan to giveairly good aimed quantity of rubles to take back with you. Si Tory well, nt1 have my debt covered and have you thought any further about tbe desirability of myACHA? Ot Boo doplan to do this? radual basis; to pay it off piecemeal; or what? Wo think it could be conspicuous for you to show uparge sum of rublesl! Nobody would knowid not have lt saved up from earlier daya. 0: However, If you have thla immediately upon your return from England... ould not buy it at once. ould be looking around for an economical DACHAeriod of two to throean even register lt in my mother'a name. Ot Well, as you receive income from your monthly earnings with ua, you enn put aside partial sums to pay for this. In fact, I'll toll you in advance that we had planned to giveubles. Out of thia you can settle your indebtedness and putortion. Later ao wo give you more money you can gradually save. Bt ate to got money gradually because money melta away froa me. as thinking ofodest DACHA, posalbly an old one repairedew one with tine paymenta. In ny present condition by rank and ago, it la perfectly normal toACHA. on't understand the situation; tell me quite frankly bow you are planningare you awaiting for additional nateriala fron mo on the basis of which you will evaluate how much to pay na? Orn not authorised to nake tbe requesta making. Pleaee explain thla to no.
0: In the first place, ever aince wo have boon working together you have been putegular monthly Income basis. Thle has nothing to do with too quantity or value of materlala that you bring. 8: Very wall, that part ofnderstand, aad you have boon generous in the salary you allocatedhank you. nut the Materialaaaed to you you do not regard in terms of any
f Inanesmunsratlv* value? Oi Thoa far a* have simply aetabllebed an eacror account for youontinuing basis and your account vill grov, laaa your withdraw*la, aa tine goest anker no difference whether you are here or ia Moaoov. St Bo this haa been tha dec la loo vith reepact to ny recueet to evaluate ay aatarlals. Ot Tea, but that does not aaaaonneeward that ve aay evaluate for you, baaed on your overall vork with us, vould not be given you at tbe tine that you feel you should com over to aa to stay. |i Hkrwewer,one tolll have to have aoMthina:eatest to start1 have toousearacht, (laughing) ndoratend you, but rightertain minimum aua ln order to buy thehould. uatev very email diamonds, two vatcbeaecent gift for VARKJffTSOV.
11) Ht Hov Much haa he got nov of that vhlch we have given'Ma? Ot Bemember va vast you to buy vhat you need bat you meat gat rid of every pound bore before going back. Hov many rxranda do you have now? Bt ave fcOO nov. Isn't that enough for Just tomorrow? Will be be able to apead tba ISO In one day7 8t ave to buycBO vlll not be enough. nall ringouple of earring* vill coat nore than that. Is lt difficult for you to provide pounds? Did you already give WTHKB vhat you promised to give hln? Ht It nust be explained to hln that our payments to WYHHB must be done very carefully because thor* ia tbe matter of tax**, we hare to account for this bo ve have arrangeday so that be doesn't get taxed. 8t Tou aee I'd like to buyevut good things ara expensive. Ot "ell, tell n* exactly vhat you aean? l ill at *aa* at asking for th* mocsy Just liks that. But tell a* if I'm doing thia right or not. Ot Ws'll give yen anotherno* and we*e* how you get aloag vith that and vhat you have, than you can tell us vhat slse you need later. Bt 1 bring yon all ny racelpte and you eaa see for yourself. (Subject thoa bad* farewell and laft5 boar*Original document.