ofdon ln the iMrnlnc
" JSJwcould not be epotted since
* *raTOlJut directly fromwhich
, Mr** arrived on enne.
onntnotod WORT and told him that tho Sovietbookedoom at tbo Kensington Clou* Club. Coon receivingfromJARRx, MIKKoom at tho ammo hotelpiece. TAOtrt^^mt^ IS* 'E* atamy from the hotel
at which point "IKK pinked subject up and dove him to the vicinity of the meeting place. Subject arrivedKK atouro onh, Uponcjoct greeted the other three cfHoersnd stated that all eaa well and iwrnal. Ho alee mentioned that hla wire ortod becnuae aha could not eoocnumny him to wmm end that he had brow-ht enme trvWfWfor ue buttold him not to go book to hie room toIt et thia time.
"Tf*ould control the rim appcdcAticna better. The entire delcfyttlen eubmlttedo the Driller, office - he rime cars too late for oa to take the plnne for which we ima tieketo. Juat before we rero to go and while mitim toMtoir delayed vims, KHW lift Off reviewed tho declaration of the Council of
[^SS^^StThioh ulj. Thiorlftjrir^trlnlieto and aoierrtietB to go tolPHDrmi during the time that the soviet RXhlbitton mo ln progroee andorty-four including myself were eoleoted to go. but all of trtP" ewe cancelled ehen HmiWiOleT reviewed the CeolAmtloru I'ave you not aeon the DecdnmUonT hotogrnrfvad it. c, not yetlt io now being developed. st ill tell you about
J" , 3' ftreice little roomhought you would be staying at the Mount Royal and ma would be there. Oi It is better to be here, elnae you have no legend to go constantly to the Kount "owl Hotel. Si ad received my vies onould have cone hero alone and would have mat you onh July. *hy did not
ay sooner? St You were
not correctly informed. lour seeretnry In your Tim* Officeaquaat for visas from our Ministry of Foreign Affairs on the Uth July. tubequeet for ny viaa and ten other persona. |i< Thnt io not correet. now that he received it onh. B. Even ao did you not get my cable onh? Then yen couldoheoked on
ll*UaB* forIan on Thursday afternoonh. And it wmild have been umwml toioa enrlier oinoe
ZL^TJ? 1. B tMn forty-^hti Hevortheleas,have attracted undesirable
Si well anyway, lOmug'CTCT revised hie tteolamtion. ill tall you about it because It le on fourf film.
lonSou planrdrvt to stay? St ave bean
authorised to stay for three weeks. 0, abetter tlie delegation came or not? Hi fee, either ay. eceived my visa onh end mym due to fly onh,ould not fly outot the vim. The Krtweay begine work nt 1DOO houreot my viaa0 hours. it, That i. right. The vim ma granted only Ln the evening on Friday*
I'ere ia my authorlmtion for ocrdng here from.
preaenbed tho doou-rsnt, rsfuooted that it be photoKmphedto him. ne pointed out that thia dcoument ma for thefflB to be the head. He pointed out thst it ma
/eigned..
APPROVED FOR RELEASE
S 1MAR
I signed by SAMAFJH nbo was tha Deputy Ohlef of tha Coirrlttea and thatava RUDHBV who bad replaced WRUHIOOT. lao signed tha doouaent, aaother Deputy of RUEflKT).
Aad who haa replaced that biggest chap? 8| HUTHSV,
Lieutenant General, Engineer of tho Technical Service (Innhener TekhnlohookoJa Kleotroolo expert, aho haa bean ceouplad oU the tins with defenoe technique loboronrsvya toJdinlkeflj aboutears old* enorgotio, not all that bright, ho replaced JOimiUGDW. Ot Do you think that -ilI be better for you? 3i No. KH: MiaiS? vae more intelligent. IQIRUNICIIKV was better for work. Cut forail, yesterday he called me lh andell, I'll toll you in detailoment; Hell, ho aet am the taak, <ehloh we are to do together, before our meeting, my dear frlonda, that's all. idn'tould acne.
hought to-day that tha film would be ready* because lt
Id very Important. It la very Important. Oi It will be, lt will be. This evening. 3i I'veo get Intoardarl LKladovku]. lou can Judge lt by the material. It ia the latest, the yTO.JLrteetl on military dootrine, onegarding the utilisation at taaka. tfa'float .the Air Faroe, tha doctrine
In general. Qi They will bring it' to us tonight. Si And thishotographed, first of all, iQiRifSSGIEV'a dearee. Bo I'm ohealcing the doouoonts,handed all of than over to you. ant to relate ths aost recent events.and lt oould have turned out so that wo vould not have been together oo-dnyl How let us analyse what aa are to do in the future.
(_ on tho 4th ofas called to GVZSKIAMX, already I
he Deputy Head of the section, tho appointment had alreadyandan the 1st of July a
waa passed by/Counoll of Ulnistexa of. signed by JQlitU3tiCJIEVf regarding the urgent, speedy aaalgnasat of0 Soviet spsaialista to the Exhibition in London. Tho Ccsnlttee appoints you tbe Head, the leader. In so far aa you have already been in England- you bare certain acquaintance u, we axe satisfied with your past trip- (to uai Tou did all thle for ne, despite MifflRBtAN who did noteeting). Si GYI3HIANI aaid Tou ore appointed tbe leader, urgently prepare0 Individuals including our own people*. aid] "Gextaon Ulkhalloviohbrunches of inthustry shall es take? Be enidi "take ornaistry, toko light Industry, anuallurglstB, annul n* oonatruotora [oa*hino-*traitalejJ and take the people who bnvo already boon in England, so that one should be able toisa for them quicker, and there la already en exit pernLt an record far then In the Central Connittee vhlch pokes Its nose Into everything* it sill let than through faster, it vill al be quite legal and correctAnd X, togoher with my own people quickly prepared these group*.
fiSi St Ve sent an application to the Centraluddenly the Control Ccnaittee starts holding up. Tou aee, wo got the order on the 4th, andigned an tha 1st. Ton vdll read lt oa tbo developed film to-day, with KHRJSJICHEV'a signature, there lt is written: 'paragraph li..second FATOLXCtlSY and his wife for twelvehsrei
on't retsambor lt for th*ii that laold
I youtntrusted to our4i PATOUCHHV*
I iaforeign ourrenoyaragraphn case th* Exhibition is visited by nenMillan snd (juosn Eliaabeth the second, presents should be given then according te th* Instructions and arrangeoants by tb* Sovlot Asbaaaadar. (signed) KukOSHCUBV, Executive of Affair*.'
ii. Si o* we or* preparing thinga. We are preparing straight away files, obaraoteristios, photograph* aro being prepared in full, Tine to leave'vehatot* na* scut to th* Minis try of foreign Affair* retarding my firstas
/to
"
again organise all this and do it. as need to has* ife dono urgently, because lt (tba deem) eaa signed on. tba 1st, bat ss only got it on tbe 4th, and, by thehe KR3KL telephone. On ths Gcvernasnt telephone, and thia decree reached us later, when RuTflHV aignad it on July 5th, butold you ws heard about It on ths 4th."
20* tartedlsep for throe nights and evenhought, because yeu dldn'tould have leftto prepare the progranmo for than, and to Bell with them! Leteverything elseould already be hare witho thanthey aald the third paragraph had bean revoked, why had it Pox two reasonsiery strong impression waa createdTartar who defeated froa ths ballet while inery He was ssorstary of his, Party organisation. Soecretary of his Party organisation. He waa oho senseoret vote. Secondly, tbe people were prepared quickly, theyoheoked through ths oontrol organs, on exit permit waa lamed! atfrom the Section of the Central GOsmlttesisa wasyou. And thirdly, vhat would tint results bat either tholot tbam visit firms, or thsy wouldn't, and If thsy would not 1stlt wouldight entertaining stroll. And POWATBKTJ asaoasdZXtt&JV to reoonslder this point, and It was revoked. Whilegot ay viaal ay passport had bean brought tone, sincehad boon given
entarsunning, intelligentaaa to
, who saw an off this morning. ravelled with his wife andsaw me off thio morning. uit like yours, only hs had ahis wife and daughter ere here la London, now. Thoy cemo astwelve days, aix in London end six ln other towns. hallfor'll tall you nore about it Inter* han't beve shall be buying it, for SSBOY. (Laughs). ams in andHead of thaaa presented by the Committee withof tha Canaittee, oinoe thsy knowaave Interests in Sigland, not only to osxry out this workline of the Commlttes but also to fulfil our four; tasks, regardingshall report to you shortly. Thers ars four tasksavsuy viaa waa granted hy ths English. ay chiefs saidthree or four times to tbo Capitalist countries* Zf youafter having workedilitary attache and Chief Assistantwe shall put you uprolonged aisaicn. te shall see hoeof tho Americana, British and French will be to you aftera military typo, but now are a
22* urther, this won token note of ln the eeotlcn of thoof the Party, and they gave me permission* Out of theaa given permission. They saidi "Let him go!" tho Central Coondttee knowsork both In the Ccemlttoe andin ths GRU. So it moansave two purposes to go for* Xright have we got not to exploit this opportunity, and notdiscussed thio to begin with with General QtCLIXOV, and then withyou make thia journey, along ourocs the
Coondttee wont to sard you, or
2% ent to thia ALEKSENKO, thia is AUfESSNEO' end to this
AUAKIN is the Secondeputy Chairman
he second ono, they have two Do put ion nov, ALBK3KHKD and SAVABXK* aidt "With reapeot to the Caaaittss Uno, oonaldexdng that the journey of the Delegation has boon cancelled,e of anyTee, of course, you canithin those groups thereroup of mstallurgiats, it will ocas to you thers, se shall apply for visas} ens of than la TtKHOKCV is deputy of ZlBXaSKO, andia tha Chairman of ths Goa&koncnfioviet of. P. (Ooverxnent EoonOndo Council of. While TXBKrIUVatallurfciBt. He wants to cona hereonthonthalfroup, toumber of your big motallurgio firms. Thoy should oone for tenach
of Minister* of tho uVa^TH. snen" thislormod. tMyto show hla tho Edgar ALIEN flra ard tha flxae,a whore kSPBlUAH aod UcBBlXS ara. aa ordered to attach HILCVIIOT
to tho group of, when lt arrives, and to earnh* Soviet one, that TXthTJIOT la arriving- TTZflCtlOV iaof
J3. a to go oa waiting hare all the viaa until thej arrive? Ss Ho. MlLC/HCV la leaving when the exhibition oleoma. Oi Ho will ooao hare afresh then, with TXXBCKOTt Si No,ill ooae with TTaHMW, Xf mHCNOV'* group were to arrive aov, KOOvTDCT would work with thea.
ia geraxel organieer, the Chief. eroot travel withoa only direct (guide) everything and arrange everything, after thatan travel withouthy ahould IT TTEHOSW waa invited by nr.ho la tbe Chntraoa of the Ckaadttsstnray JJUSsgf
and ha is the Managing Dlreotor too of tbe concern GOBST aBEN CO. Thereoncern ln England,HOTnd the -bnag^ngWreot^ of thia concern le Mr. VXARXtO. Thia WSABBC haa invited TlaWHOT, when he waa ia Moscow et tho Exhibition. Hera I've got written dono ABtTTTUNOv* Hlkolayhia iaaaher of tbe Delegation of TOTKKOT. resent, aoroup haa been prepared ocaalatlag of eeven people.ikolay Bagratovloh ia at pre sent the Head of Jthe Infornation Directorate rwathaaTaif' Coondttee. AEDTTuHOy. Ho ia alaooshat aoroup hex been prepared ia ecoordanoe with thia decree, and coneletlngeople.
Ji, aa well inatruoted ia photogrephy. Perhaps there ar* acnea orooo with ap* eaaora. One of ny kinoxee,hotographnd toh ftreao. It goaa vary stiffly, It polio. Soskn ay notesou ate tbehotographicove several question* for hla. Oi We vill do thia.
/"X) Si how, as regard* thi* group of TIKHCWOW'a, It will arrive here tor rather, wa shall ask fornd whether you great thea or not la yourhink that he ahould be granted to visit sobs flra.illne oonnot tell, TIKHCNCV'o attitude to as la very ploaaant. hy stock woo reloed by RBaW, woon to you by ay daughter -my beloved only one, ond herhateft fromresented CVlSHLtNX'e wife with sob* narvslloue scant, ponder,ookat of carda and several pooketo of cigerettee. ave pusants to everyone, I
7
celoulatedod given present* to tho value of about-Andravelled tMeven WHeW told urn to bring hin batteries ofolts. re tb* soviet leader* for you in tas* fornj hell speak to you later in nor* detail about tola.
How about October and your rosetMlitis* for ecciing? t's like thia: I've Just bean very earning, Ve already appliedOentral Conaltteesnt It, tba third Quarter -on via tn* lady what sp*oiall*t* ware being planned, idoorieotly with thi* lady, or not* Hi (In aogllah) feu stayed atoo long with her. Silaolover aan. It**sit, giv* snd vanish, Xt la lapoasibl*. tbe lady la Bitting, rain 1*
arpreaching, tem, 3b* isall three ohilAren.a tba aaea brown suede Jacket,hould alnsy* reongnlaeappraised tin whole set up, tb* rainn purposerain to begin, ao that a* aexsr people a* possible should leave,is bad, (It would be better) to go farther towards tb* edg*would be fewerhe aa* sitting beside tba path oppoelt*and otneaa, aVaryun* goes and alta there, when itunnyapaceardins there! People all round. Bat further inIt's empty* The rain washought* let tb* firstthan I'll approach
(Goes on to describe contact, says lady had no nana for hi* andthere the following Sunday, th* 9th, although he wosll bar* bed abar, as "Vlaiji bad already infonssd hla on July Mb thet bs,to London, and he oould have passed this ansaag* en via the girl;
7
be goes on to say that ahe had understood hla despite his bad English, only kSRRXUAli dees not understand hla! Bs sill Inprov* hla Xngllah, aan to aay that tbe British rued not have feared ths intervention of tbe MUltla, asa* hi* zed book, and would have told the"above off,scold have let the girl go and then bs hlasalfha aatter nth th*ren. Tha British are tb* leader* and aactora hare, but over there be knows what to do. Ooas oneribe departure of lady with pranhildren, and that be noted tbat all aa* wall).
3&. Si And hovnow shot all we* sell? Too oould only Inform aa of thi* by wire lesseek's Ua*. Rev that you hav* passed la* to sn th* faot that tb* carbon oa*
o aa th* foot tbat tb* oarbon waaeed tb* whole thingT Ot To*, t was perfect. Bi Withoutnd on Saturday, the day before yesterday, you sent a* tb* asa*eat for? Ongain received k1hat for? thateed It fort Gi Because on't understand! Qi Of ooura* yoa understand. Just think, avery Saturday and Sunday during ths courseorth thi*ng giv* t to/you the chance to Hot en whenever beat for yoa. nd do you thinkcald not have listened for tt at once? Gi (Srplain* again why repeat neaaagBB aro sent). St (Om* on to esplaln that ba ha* node Maa three ado takes In decoding but found theot find it too difficult. Hore find receiving boo dlffloolt. Bar ore hi* departure ba bid everythingecret plea* (talirttj, having first packed it all aa, Conplains again about receiving the aaae uj posted aaaaags ofroups twice. Itoverts to hla oontaot with tbe woman and call*bs an* most natural, didn't *ven start, bay* it *aa quit* oorreot and natural that be ahould hav* ohatted to tb* oh!hy should he bar* appxoacfaed at all71 etc o bin thet It waa all rightut vould notood thing often, if they have togain, th* briefer tb* better. 8ubJ*ot says it vould be bettert further left In future, aa thsr** peopleot by th*
39. Tt How tb*ranother qin stioru vhyo to receptions, to th* Canadian Pabaaay regularly, as you know, the Aonrioan* don't Invite n* to tb* iaha**y,ave already aathe patentfender oaaeisit, aboutrote to you, lso got acquainted with acne other Anerloan. And no-ons invites ne! And I'm tb* deputy headhere was th*
oold bo ot tbo reesptiea, shea tharo were amralpreacnt,on't invited. (J, ssnlalnsd to bia that tho laorioao Wrtioey aallad hla orgord aotlon oad oahoduest Hat, bia aaae ma sot en It), Si bell, perhaps that'a because I'a youngee vorker. (Agrees that thia la the beat eay to issue laeitetlans, renerks that be haa alao never baea ooos at ths Brltleh neheisy, aa yet, but has been thrlos at the Osnaclon asbaasy). beaeador Smith, hla vife, three children, FusTSaTA aaa tbare, RDDWV sea there,aa tbsrs too, o to ths Canadian aabaaay. As regards ths Aaarioaa and British'a quit, olear about it now. aot perhaps that will alao
As lagards the lady, we've finished that. equest that abaher position in future further amy fron populous places. Oi Sowknow her, ths natter is quits different. Hi hov that aha ia incan noet her harebort while. Siavs anyou to analyse thia natter and salve It eoientifi oally. Whylady not be Invited to the Canadian Knbeaay, say,ould beooma officially acquainted vith her at the reception?could snot her quite openly in ths street,ould ooas upSaith,av hln in the street,hat, neverllitianan pre sent 2 (Zt is agreed thatee ting oould
Ot (Explains which carbons should be used, of those nove notebook). avstria in larisibla Ink there. opied it out of thers, hut all ths otherave also hers in ink on ths slip ofent yoo, (He bad not written through the oarbon, but the neighbouring sheet of paper). Si Vhsn you gave an the black
notebook, therelack partitionsad yoa told sa, ths
three sheets lying behind it are ths carbons, threeow. Ot Ho,were the second, fourth and sixth. idn't understandskedarge wheat like that, you gave it to ss to beginthen you withdrew it. Tou toldthere is ths oover,
than therelank sheet, an insertion, ths first three shoe to after that are allpened it, took out the first sheet, put It underneath, wrote veryony laterIt waa used later -everything turns out well far ne, thankidn't destroy therote through this sheet of paper,eokoned that tbe two chests that remained were also oarbona* Zou toldll three shasta are carbons. . tha real oarbona vara ths 2nd, 4th and 6th shoots* the 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, and so en are not oarbona* nd shy is this sot
Oi Zt ia to protect the oarbona.
not writs with that one, theabs ths following oqs,now that yourarbon. et bens X's si range thea soave the oarbona cos after ths other,on't six thoa up* (They go oa repeating the sons thing over again). opled fron thers, hut all other designations oadave destroyed. avstriana why? Because on the oppositeidn't re-write It for youeptnd all the rest I've destroyed* (Referring to the slip of paper with notes which hs gave as).
Oi But what was it? St There worst all thswhloh are used in this teabnlaus. Then ths oonoluolonsformula for relative raw oaterlal (roaktlynos eyr'je),several foroulae. That's lt.estroyed that,eftfor ayself,idn't roaovs tha diagraa describing thearootot flight. ook then, that la tba "last ^thatremaining of all the tens ofundredhat'by ay oenss on the
43* Biov did ay documents consll right? Ot Tss, perfectly.he quality la aot bad then? Oi Bo. othyhatave to thsourtrstohsd ths photography to the very last frames. Did you get the aatcriala
regardingooting? BBXROCBV'. lecture turreoi Tee, very excellent. had th. second lecture, finished th* file, wound it to tha dots, rUrtod taring out th*t thatth*r*nock on tboovad everything and it all aoved onwards fron to* dot,reattlad,rt aob*d,id not oil ok it fiftyad not tlaa to put lt hackolln and put lt In,id thi*ndhotographing. Andot toh at ill and than tohary stiff toeally had to ua* fore*. anted to change to the other earner* thatt na, to th* second one. nd* notei tb*r* as toad to do, how It abould b* greased and aaahar* cusstians for hln, tha photography instructor, lot hla oon* to Bwoauee when working it's lib*elspbonsns has toou aay bar*av*hotograpbad *ons pages tries,asn't aur*ad turned* or not. X* tb*all right, or not?
C: krosllsnt. t waa the the thing is, to get into 'that larder - Ot Where did you get It fron? g| Proa OS. All OB0.
44. Si Mow please writ* aa ery*le_ for a*y buay, and than I'n too tired to writ*tb* Soviet ksglas. soslved perni salon to look at tasit waa for haakgrouad forhat will b* mm cover atery,hall open up each larder* In tb* secret saotlonj Ot how ean you account for th*oee of data In such an article? S: Quite saaply. as rvoslvo aaasaa of open military Journal* fron you, fron tha British, froa th* French. inished two Academies, For the thirda todayiaelonoreign ooantry.ant to b* clever,Hitary atrateglo Intelllgenoe officer,bsorbponge everything that goes onead,n not working en that athould be abla to do thle batav* enough other work for the pre sent for thend our baalo workidn't start In th* rightur baalond tb*etcas hone and fall Intop, in theo ny gysnastloa, eat and go eat. And than, in order to writead Mall Invvatlana, Za* Artillery angle naasurlnghall tell youit la detail later, you knov, befora,urned with the eenrag* of anrote in thsittle, thyot,lt dean la front of all tbe naterlal which we gat tbrough our intelligence fron you, enoh as th* aagulatlonsaylon.
Si By tb* way, bow sea tbat Hat, goad, orf thsetworfcT Hi All good, ywe. St Aha. Be get tha *at*rlal* fron there, a* .shall upwt this agent operation a* if thay did not ariat. aa get (thia) la /our Xnfornation Directorate (haadsd by) JURnoVJOlI li*utanantGeneral, vhoid you get ths report about ao nanyeing prenotedT Oieceived it.
thev aak jou -snare aa
Journal.-you give ae th.
Si Why should an lntalllgant officer not alt dean, drav general (vrmlistInns and writ* about tb*f th* Ingln sanrlnans, for instance, In regard to artillery, lot ua sayy selfeneral Staff ofen take any doctrinal subject, any fuestlan of doctrine, obev over it and giv* ay own view* in thea* taaret articles In ths journals suchJ3OUXA sTSI. and TOXXMKTX TSarWH. tc But won't they aak you "Where ia your aource 7* Bi but you neat giveh* *ouroe* -
Xou indicate
and you writ*on then th* baais ofit ao that it vould appear logicalr*tworavelled abroad, haa
ixparSo. inculd hrr. den. it. beftsr. SI I'll give you tbs bibliography. G, Tbat would ba ouch better.
St wo hm ton* of military journal* from all oountrioa, hat la dnportent, iTyou can aay that nob exist and you used tt aa scares satsrlal. Vail, we must ooa* to an agreement during theeedays. G: if an item of Antereat Is found they may order you to produce the Si esll, to beginhall reviewhall write it all ooan in ay vorklnghall think it over, don't worry *
understands. hall put in that toould hav* had access. And so do have soosss, through ourTI1gonoc. through seoret literature whloh so stool by asans of oar agente, and through open literature shtab yoa very open-heartedly srltel And as bsva tons ofibsight ay to theournals, jest alt aeon ond watte! fklak, satksr svsiytbiaej Oathern the subject of tanka, oa artillery, oa general views -infantry, and so and ao, and sossyt would bs logical, thereot of material, ould ask yoa to do thia, sadet into print with Itnd you'll gat thlef it is printedournal, they'll soy -What is thi-?- a oa this trip right aov -they oonalder an to ba Inteloat for their see. shy do they still keep ee -In spite of sy father? Ton don't know enything about af father, do youT Jsi ao. ill lafora yonind out.
46. Thoy knowoa work, they taughtool, for aaay, aaay Tears. Thsyave Initiative, sa gifted, aalok on thsheyeturn fron no. And if there ia no return, then they will eayt "That neons bs Is slipping, bs no longeruture." on't oars shot they say, ln anyhall bs with yoa la two years' tins. If stave Bcejething printed whloh ia only aeveral pages lang, sa artlola reflects goodhall than seyiave hod thisaat to erodoow something elseere sore thoughts, ideas are sosnag to ae! mm%expressill tell than that.nat read ahat our views ars on such endndake photograph, of It all! all those Journal* whloh were brought just nowtcsnrrow yoa sill aay to net ex oahapj" After rooks te thio goes asa Importance. aluevery highly, theave you. alae it very much. Theee ore tbe originals, that which sa studies,
VS. Oi HU you have aooeaa any sore to rookstsT hallhall bare. aspoke withant to write sooetbing obout anti-tank artillery, like for lnatanoe the type whloh the Aasrioans havs.*
By ths way, gsntlooan, thia thing of yours la working, isn'tlt is very important to bars thiohall just touch onI will go into detail.
In connection with theee events in Oexweny, Berlin, ourpay ejeolel attention to anti-tank defence, fecial attention. ahyT
your otherwo teak armies, ready for action on ths territory of the Bast Oerman Bepublio, not taking Into account tho
Because two tankmiss, that aeonsf regimente, brigades sad two oorps, that la an aray, plus all auxiliaries. Two teak amlee oa ths territory of ths Bast Carman Bepublisfaeok lt through
armies, also
hloh ars la the"second echelon on oar territory, lu our forces, on the coatlfaons borders, and also la Oasohoslovakla and in Poland.
52. Bi And at present ahWUiOHgV la carrjlagary ounnlng poliey vith his Ccaeral Staff} hs la putting much ssahasis on tank forces, the tanks will havs earners aad rockets on tbem, there sill be machine guns on tbo tonka. So that oar teak will ba to bring our anti-tank artillery to tba highest stats of perfection aov, and to have anti-tank forcea in each infantry eeatiau ave ia mind besoofcas, sad so oa, snd so on. those things auat be available. Thsy sast bs trained daily, like violinists being trained to play tbe violin, daily. Bo ths troops oen sas dlreot fire daily over opsn sights. If oar anti-tank forces sill bsigh level, sad bis massed task forcea advance am oae ths lira* af sranaailoallnia wadon sill inevitablyo sill talk about this la wore detailry great sen/ tanks will be. built la ths future. To the setrlaent of ths artillery.
M. Thereattla going en a* piesait balsam tb* Ooaaanler* of tbeny *r* yon giving aoaway to to* tanka? fail* rnakste and nlooticrilo aoleno* should b* Increased, aad ao forth,' Tb* taphiala la on gBKS, easphaai* onass, rockets, aviation, tbat -blot, ha showed,a xist, thay ar* not yvt all Inroduction,ar* In serial production, bat very^fe*. ball tollater, of abloh thsr* are *nr* and of which tfaar*a alao* thatnown to as. Per thlaan ilb* Berlin eewstlon, afterigning ef the *gia**ar,t, thay want to blocked* th* approaobe* with tanks -th* who Isbat w*f we bit then bardh*a taring thU now, I'll say it la nor* detail* wishes ths nature of theae battles to be localised, but a*it than ao hard that tbay all bs destroyed, for thia reason tb* anti-tank foroea saat beo an ss yetov, we aasttnU-tnak foroee,aneanticraU *rtlll*ry, baaookaa, wlsss.
Toa think the concentration pa* lataationslf tt Tea, it vaa a
/pectacle. Bone of oarealAt shan't go to look at this, ws eaat poaos,p oa talking snout peace, -hil. there tbay are
Ie anna tretloo of force." eard thi* with wy oan ear*. Bat theae aeroplanes do exist. Bat thsdo not aa yet aiaamt air arades, Sotndrona, ao far, Bt But do yoa think there ia perhaps thla tendenoy -
to showo thatt ahoald alao turn to nore aircraft
i production In oonpetltlon, ands attention to raaksta, so to apeak to appropriate nor* aoney far aircraft rather thant Ha would like that, but baot think that w* are as naivs as that, be knows that thla will not work. Ot Bat do you think that lt is possible there wasendency? Bt no, and In two or three years, thoea asroplansa which heov and ths scarete which h* *how*d, there will be aany, sorry so^ndrens of than. They will ba froduoed Ilk* asuaage*.
Bi Tell *a, thi* oarboorought, tb*orked on, aan acnatrdng be got out of lt with tha help ef *lti*-violat rwywT Oi Be,
ot your radioevery word of it. Baa It exactly a* you said? Ot It was perfect, you got tha full aesaagw. the only slight error an* In th* abbreviation fox begirding. Tou rend ltUSb Instead of HaCh which aake* no difference at all. Thealao probably straightened out in your sand that you used ths wrong eareon for 8V,
ould have written up th* aat*rial in overt text Jast aa veilinply wanted to try out thaystem. By th* way old yeu receive ell ay fllaad aat*ri*la? Ot Tea a* did and it all oaaa out fine,
Z told TAJOBTOOVanted to writ* adOitorytold a*is office, tbat ia tb* office where car*:roodrote about hi* death when th* helicopterlea, we pot that. n Just oh*oking to see tbat you receivedsatarlal. It ia so good that nr. KBVBEDT aad Mr.ira stand, thi* has createdanic there. Later
Z will go Into detail* but right nov we are Justgeneral vies*,
Bo* let u*atter of the grastcet lBportanoB foras and particularly beginning with tb* report which yea yourself sent
to ws about ths Berlin slteatlon, Feaalhly yea aan expand on and clarify aany detall* of your oanar esaapl* who alas waa aaaBBBB whan TARBrrsOT aad* hlayoa told as sheet? Bi Oen, Baler aodrey Bcaaanoviob rWBBTI Vith kU aireas there with ay -If. Tare ard that la all^rbaTooaeaion was when he Invited bis varyriend* to bis dacharink* aocaecaanoe af hla having Taosived tbe rank of chief
Marshal. b* wbj did yOU get rTOQROT'* photograph? Ml Tee we did.
; 3i Tea aee th* axlatenos of th* four brigade* was oonfitawdaveh* deploynant area rt th* first Brigs4*. Store group* should be
organised to prevent these brigades fron aovlng cvt of the tuaaa where thay
are, Thi*omsibJng Mr.hould work on.
hink we'd better atart onMrtlon* an tha proper order.
' r i aa have aa areola hare end tha froana hean haan placed Inorder of aaojaanoo ao let ne aak joa theee In carter. Here laanof ahat ae* devwlcpnants do job knov about In the Soviet en the BrjTJH laawjtliy since th*eareported T apls,Soviet position, *hat aetlon hav* thay taken and ahat 1*
their plant
60. nderstand, th* Soviet petitionave reported toirst af all if lt ear* poaelhle toaa* aray on a front eslag only convert ional weapon* and ne reohat* with ataaiaI hydrogenhere would probably b* mm eafeetlons to oarntlan thUreaabl* to the altmtion. at Za thi* year viae
Vs , ral other* *bar* thi* vlavT Ii* nan-rw^ view
,/ otten, tbeyart IQnaScnTT, tbay
.ys* k. don't treat the Soviet Ocvarncaork and the people rvaactn half hungry a*
The people ar* vary displeased vith rjunjsiitKiJV1nllitant epeeohei
tbay aay thi* andlbly alao. Itaalar to aapisas onee*lf nov tbat
BBHtt la gens. Tb* currant beliefhat, thanks tellltftntrn, tWBffTJiH Md fie OaDXLI bar* been foread to taoreue theirwit ptogiwasaas by two or three tlaeo. If BT41IH wareba would do everything quietly hot thi* foollerting out hi*nd intention. Md la forcing oar pn.albU jetnillalaa* to Inoraaao their nllltary atrwngth. Ban- dl alikehat asurting hi* own mum and that bs talks too auch about Borietllatananta la hla effort to frighten th* eastern leader*.
Si tlth thia thought la the background In th* present situation v* (th* teat) do notoppeal Egyptian fiasco. P* should reset withf ha blooba th* aooM* lead* to bkkl3i, thOM blooklnghould h*sd and without otrlklng with atealo wanon. *t
industrial oentrea or rear areas. Should h* attempt go do thla than he should be repaid in kind and tb* whole world told that th* tbatrotecting it* vital Interests which iHausiriisv had tpaaplad upon in violation of tha Fotsdan Agreement signed after World War u. If b* espand* th* oonfllot to *om degree then he should be ansMred with oorr**pondlng oounter blows, actually KottBHOHEY and ths Soviat iray at tola tlM are unprepared for this.
J
62. ow,op-aata took plaa*ortsd? DOmsuOBSTersonallyng tb* Central Ooanittee of tb* OoBBDnist Party in two dl rectihs first ia to MtahUab andna* production pi ngi.BM of all types afat,rockets, aviation and other sladlar mms, nl thi* tb* worker, ofd the respmsdbl. IBalateretojeapa*^
e
**> >. tbaarM.
Tbeyor eraaple, at annh dtiaa aa ftwsrj nhloh uboula be siraanaively baebed, Near OOHXZown oallad SOabaJTO. it thla place tkere ar*yard* where sabsarlaea ar* jreduoad. Tfaar* ar* wharves, dry-dock* and shipyard* there, ta addition,orget, thereogs aircraft production md!re whichuilding the Delta type betest.uHL.jii "dhter* which yoa hav* mm, or noybe yea call than swept beak sings -thi* plant Ulocated at Bow tblaajaa ha* beanoatnddM aoMTarfbraighara, even tb*hsr* whleh vara pr*vtou*ly vlalted are olooadauM thay desire to shut off aooeea to
tb. area. b,
What are thay doing -UltarilyT b> eld friend narwhal tabehtsov is oonatontly travelling te tb* BPaaBtiaB ofsavaaoiM. Juat -j- elar te ay departure to oom bar* the artenalv* Miiaania* la Bulgaria v ana ompleted. h* wayrw nov *and noted. Inank arny and In wvery fl*ld aray,ostly aa Infantry fotvation,
Divlalcp froa, UJnoluded^atnotefl
Jtart a* largeare trained bat rally asrtlatp sting and
folly seaippad, oa* Idvialon par isay fpon. also partiaipatas.
Oi abet typet? Sit. lafentry rhvlalcsioperates exactly as sot let dootrln*al trains with tba Soviett all Banosiait*. Si where dee* thi* tabsa it with tba Soviet Army only Ib. er lUaaliia aawtttaaf Si Tba floiaoii Dtwialoa la inelaaBC la tba Soviet army vaaravar tba Soviet Aray aay run aenoauM**. RiUaaialtavt4aal<aiiAuV oountr/ of vtruw Piot aaa alao within, Iteelf. aa aaaaarela deaigoed to train. Araytlaa and strategy for joint operation*.
St. Ot HowDivision* of other Satellite ooaatrlee? Si Shortlyoft yoa extensive aanoaurraa took plaao is Cweohoaiovakl* whloh Involved Soviet, Qswoh. troops which were training for joiat operotloaa, aatahal TAWrfBCV vas tbsrs and all of ths Borehole of ths respective ems of asrvlos. therefore satsllits exsea foroee srs being trained for Joint operations, the last big asaosovia just eased la Bulgaria. JaPCWOW want to aaFtBTTJT TAI with cae recast bastallqala Jura, for tralalaa, aw hla he told as that tfiashs Soviet forces la com of hoet ill ties hove to deploy end leere their garrison positions inhsy will tasve to soshat all Germane, Ths enlisted sersonasl of. Aray ore very hostile to aa* The top brass la sellposed to tbe Soviet Aray beoooae thsy srs well token cere af, just as their tea political leader*, aoaovar. ths enlisted sen eimply aot* as and if we can't deploy la tlae thsy will beat as scan with stcaee oadad thsy will exeeut* all kinds of ssbotftss. rete this oy for you already- Xn othsr sords if sonsailoation* wars oat, tbe isolated salts sould beid not give you all theee de toils for Lack of space,antcu obout it orally.
nsOROV told no that tb* *xjetlng supply daap* fory*te for storing rocketa andlarger protective storage
etruptures oars constructed. ore bothlflgaer andhan torwd structure* ind_lly spotted. There" are aoasa spies in tho area that not only did thsy detect ths rookst storage unite butanJir of oa*ee sabotag* by picturing the rooket obsll* took place. rote aboutpon filling tho rockets with faoX,artsnslvs leaks were discovered end tbsse rookots were sabotaged to sake thoa lapoaalbls to vas. PHXKCV sold that diverwioniett by Beat Gataany oars responsible for this, rrocflor also aald that alao* the Soviet Government sill act allocate funds to twbulld artillerr dusaa.mt**ft ahlter* aaat"os ooBSijvcbad1 iTjajs, Si acre there aaay oases of thle kind? Si Be told as that there war* tee or tbssef sabotage in bi* brigade. Stealerars found ia other brigade* and he again repeated to an that there or* four rooket brigade* in the territory of. Oi than did thi* take place? Si Only recently, ln Bay.
Si Anotheraaa you tc obsekare reported is that in addition to aaruSTXH TAB, Soviet rochet foress deploy near 0DE33A, where tbi* aeroplanerote about took place, bans Impact areaa in tumenl* oad ln Poland and thsy ars teat firing atrea*, fa* exact location froa where rooket firing takes placeot known but Itroa tha ODESSA Military District. Another important bit of information told to BS fay Oolonel BUEXNOV, whoav. tO marshal TAJDnTTSOV, la that joint operations la vwrloua typos of Military aaivwaaostea* place throughout the entire year. Satellite armed forces sill participate in these aanoeuvrsa ond the particular ssphssls ia to develow the ooabat readlneaa of the units bedcaaiag teethe
Si Before going to tb* nextaat say that TABaWSOT looked extremely sorn and hagaardaw aim that Sunday, aod in addition to tbo burden of respnaeVblUttoa ae chief ISuehal ba shortly
expects to bs ths " iii1l rrgrttu.B, Theytostolster ceHtsferai ay^auaJgO, SioaaCa DeputyCBJUJamO, and TaBahToWaill hs ia ohargs af all rooket forces, that la, aot only aUl be bass the rooket* oad siieu of tb* ground forces of vhlch hs is nov ths Chief, hat labe will bef the joint neadquertere of tactical rocket* and strategic
A reekata which arw now urrlrr MCBKAI/TOO, rote thle up for youj and thsr* will be aonM twelve Direct oratea In thle new ocnhlned Headquarters which will he ell under TARRHTSOV. He will also bo In charge ofold you about. Thle haa bean given to TAWWenov oven though ths Mlnlater dislikes hiny Marshal* are envious of bin. Quite frankly,reat aeraonal regard ror bin, he leeep thinker and haa edumtienal linlutlona. However, ha Is one of the best artillery aan and
they want hin to be in charge of both taatleal and atrategic roeketa.
69. Si to Oi Tou will giveine forest isuwnbsisdlassified artlole by yeur friend Li cut. Oen. ROnotTKO*. It deals with the creation of an operational directorate. wmeehcr lastas not very oorerlncdng in ny explanation of tMs directorate. (S, misread title of artlole which actually spear* of the cllislnattons of ln*ffloienoy in operational lrrtelllf*noe and nllltary Intelllgenoe, and not on the creation of an operational directorate), in addition thereumber of other very Importantere Inoludlng those bynd (DDrrsar and other jrowdnknf. alllt*rj leaders, n very happy that the photography oama out olearly. Rt Thispeoial issue or art Idea in TUKHKAYa MTBlj. Are these ante secret than thaauce? St Thia le absolutely Top Secretill now find th* aheet on which the olasalfiostion la clearly IhSIoatad. (S, continues for *on* tin* to axantn* [ and to roaark ispon th* articles which he bad phot or raphes j,
ffjMl St Publioatlonaop Secret nature previously issued by thebrnnohea ef servic* ar* no longer handled In that Banner. They are now incorporatedroup of articles and publishedop Secret special lesus of TCnMRAIAnd in YOKKHTT THWOU ersueber of these articles In tote and those ware the one* which eeenad to swi "cat lsaportant. If you will exardns ths table of conlease tell as what others you wish photoeraphefl in their order ofead all of the article tltlee and llat of author* and emphasised that theseles reflected the_ ourrsnt thinking and will tary doctrine of the Soviet Arey. He also noted that enquiries or resnrka consenting any of these srTlalea trustsubmitted directly to the editor of th*at ion only through classified control ohannsls).
I request that you have nil thla translflted and turn the tmterial to your military oonrander* elnoe th* substance of these artleles is of significant current Importance. Rven the word rocket la used here, not ths oernouflsge word assembly of aoms kind or other and you will also note thst there ere now typee of rockets with thcir_deaigmtiona deacribed here,ould"Hlce to'do with all"of the materialsave passed to you is to ra-exssdne then after you have processed then and haveist of que at ions requiring olarlflAtlon. At the *aneill bs able to ene ok tha quality of ny oan photography.
71. Oi What did you aay that tha position of General POZOTNTT ens who wne with you when VABmTSOV ande hie Btatsnent? Si He was the former Deputy to TARRhTSOT for political matters. How Deputy to BTCuZOY.
nsisted on showing an artlole which included military eat Inst as the NATO Powers' nllltary veepens to Indicate what their intelligence ws* able to prod now, Whils reading B. emphaeleed that he spotted three new rook-ts,ndCO, ranuklng thatOO designationilometres. lso referred to tshlea of eastern powers,. rocket capabilitiesiven aeotor of oombat operation*. Th* nunbera of available rookst weapons of various oelihrea and the rat* of fir* ws* indicated. tated that these tables should be cheeked for accuracy and If Soviet information was correct then deliberate chargea should be introduced In order to offset Soviet oaloulations of MOZh ^bthematlealS. also mentioned thatliond their inolusiono-ordlmted radar search"net were described In one of the artleles).
73. Oi ft/thimwhoi Much tlm do tou have available today? e still have tine to vork yet* Oi to ar*about your pattern of Uf*o you hav* to report to srr/orsi? o. m living all alonenail neat roomave not seen any other Sovietsa you *ea from myn ny om chiefsn develop is/ business relatione her* witn PATLOT *h*h* acting nasldant during tha abaenoa on leave of the Resident. on't hav* to ispurt te hin. ave bean aaaigned ny own edsalensill attenpt to fulfil end you nay helpo fulfil sons of then. eed to do le to eons bankecord of having eooonpUahsd ny sdastons for. and, ave not yet told you about. nisslonsill do ao later and with yeuran aooosv>llsh alllailone.
7V. Bi tb*btained on ny last trip *a* favourably received, even theuah they eld net wasI don't care. ee ttOOrpALOT recently while h* was In sTJAOOW. ho told an that ha had ealled MpanlMAR but oould not reaoh hin and when he did res oh hin nrnpiNAN told hin that he sea busy. Peaalbly you gave MBPR D* AH lmtrootlona that he shouldesting. Hi aTpt'iaAHhat he bs* never heard anything froa than. Oi DidRAJ,actually apeak to Xfp-ika*? St He wa* told hy vRvsjwaw, that he vaa too busy, but why oould he not hav* turned over the naterlaleetlsed mm that he would getT ar* Just th* overt nateriala that w* had all agreed ha would get for as and pass then throughHi Simply beoause HRpniKAH hs* not heard anything fron ORHPSttLOT at all. Bt we shouldn't use such old aan. Re said in ny preaeno* In unrdstakahl*thatould underatand that h* would get these nateriala for ae. Ot Tb* point ia KRWHP'AH aeys that no-one has ealled hla on the phene.f "LOT told sa he called, Oi On* thing Is clear, either KKKRIMAHiar oriar. Bt Let'a oheek into thleeceived credit for hevliwan over for contact, but bow thay use hin afterouldn't care lass.
75. Oi Tour present situation ia now clearer hut there will behan you have to ask* an appearance sores shore, possibly to visit PAT LOT or go to th* Snbeswj, and aonatlnsa thi* oould be In the evening. , and on eon* days we will hav* to work dvring the daytl**. On certainhould be in ray room in the evening and on otherhould neat with Soviets, but particularly alms at thia tins there ar* many intelllgenoe people in London, for esanpleaa on ay way to weeI ran into VOROMR. In attvjOw he was ths chiefapwatlxmit* in Strateglo Intelllgenoe under General SCROLOT. ill snet Mn at nine o'olook end we will hav*talk. Ot Is he herelealonf Si Tea, he ha* hi* own msslon and thereot of lntolUgenoe of fleer* that you hav* permitted to eosnarg* masher of the reilahboura. They ar* watohlng our people at the exhibition. Oi Did he coneBjabdTaJspntlon froa Le.Ool. HOOOT'e to whloh you belong? St Ho, he wan cent her*esljovflenS lndcpendently.
76. Oi Let n* oontinue now with question* on HRiiLIH ao we oan oover this subjeet. Si Very wall.
Oi This Is an Inportant question, what le tha degree of conf idanoe Tffnd other high raretlng Soviet sdliUry of floeiw regarding the read trie ad of JJoviet forcea to neet the consequences, of KlffWUCHKV's BRRLIH policy?s. If phyiidel resist anas flevslops? Si Thatery lsportant qi taction. If we eonalder today's situation th* noviet Arnyot ready for any widespread war. TARHTrSOT said thereo ocrcfldenoe that ourre prepared. ven wrot* you
, *thia and TARBTSOT said specifically tint In going forward thia way sa are proceedingefinite risk. We or* preparing our troops and trainingo be ready few ars; eventuality, but at thla tine there Is rK> confidence fchaitheyere prepared, Ol Did TARnrmOV *ay theft , he aald that, they ar* trying tothle oonfMenoe, the Central Cojneltte* asaabcrs, th* rarlovn Party msfrteer* snd thsare ars all at tha production centres to develop the needed equipment prepnre-'nrse end theOenerale ar* oonatantly with troop* to develop their oorahat effloienoy. A* an eraapla, during the eanoeuvrwe In OCTCWA Military District look at how nany Oenerals perlahed thsr*.
- IB -
nam do thsy regard the military feasibility of ecerbairdrej
ndlltary oonfllotT,? Si Thleurely concept. They plan Vo block all reads of aoeeee through. h tank force e. Of eouree the flrat eohelon of foroee willf*a ex of thenmd eohelon support role will be
Soviet troopa* Ae soon aa thle barrier le smashed thenetroops mill be brought up. Ths entire plan Involve on ths part of Beat Oerman andoviet troop*. Ths thinking ie that
f these reinforced troopa eon etrongly repulse the Anglo-Anarloan, French
cot Oernnon foroee then these sill shnndon further oonfllot and negotiate with the Raet Oenwin Oovorrrnmt In order to obtain transit to BWLTfJ. Farther oonfllot will then be avoided and the soviet thinking le that the "astern poeere will be afraid of further oonfllot. The Soviet estimates ore that the Seat Qorman Aray To not prepared for oonfllot and opeeiflaelly they ore oo ruddered" to "bef strength ln eo^pment and peanpower.
^.f" Y what aouroee *re there to whvn you attribute thle thought?
j oourooo or* Serged Serswievieh end, writ* down,n. K'JfT" le th* Cotwmnder of artilleryank army in. Did youat nrrionvKjv* s? Hi id and he haa just arrived in HOROcm and
he will be the artillery ocmnuvser of the WiOOOH Kllltary District, replacing Oeneml lurjrnTNIK of Artillery IlKhAOhrV who le being retired and,old hC Ns/ you before, WKDVeAn"rT io anrried toTROTaWn, TAT*WT9UT'e
j dauBhter. Oi Sor* relatives. fli KUPJH hae not received'-it'ivlf poaltlon yet but th*mit tee hno already approved it* his
hend'iunrters will be right near ny house ond he will visit raeope to be able to got much mood lnfomatlon from him*
tAJ
T^ropnrednese of Soviet foroee for nuclear war? Si Thsy ar* nota atatmasnta about chle are all bluff. Out he le prewiring fast aa possible. Certain evidences ore to he seen* Hoariveof theho belong to the org* nl ant 1cm and wobilieatiori
Direotorate and they ore beginning to rv-wevrdne dlBahargeS ofrieere. Thio ta apeaifienlly re striated to ersdNrpser offlcera of all categories and other U'y techrdcml officers such as Signal Corps nan, eto. In otherh* localiceraeceived an order from the Hln orgnrdsntlcn and rrobiliantlon direct era te of Canernl staff toall di sera rand ; technioal offloara and to place titan en active duty.
ffolQ) Oi tther* did TARFjrWUT himself acquire hla informntion on the
" w mAo it from offioial dnourrnnta or from meetings within th* i g, ot thnt from the anprerao Military Council whereits 1 as Chairman and the active voloOs are usually roKICV and MlmDTAH. The other meaner* of ths Prassldium are silent. Thee* thrss are pressing and dm-mraUng that the Oerman question tm re sol red by signing the. Pence Treaty and that this ret tar can not be put off anyhen beniadnble poeition before the whole world.
Ot no you think that the 'oviet forcea are ready for general < p rawlenr war and what lo the estimate of Hoviet offlcera thntarUbi develop out ofT.u1 al tun tion? They dot an ntcodo war but loowltriken ar* poosibls slnoe they eay thsy havs what to spit with, but in oo far aa oovering important military oen tree or concentration polnte they do not havsnpahUity and for thle ran eon FjmiWCTT is flilting for peaoe.
f Therefore what would you amy about th* poeition of the
or
Vrmpnredneoo
Ii -j
Si , io nothing, they areneral, they say thnt do not do thi* now th* future senerntiona will not forgive us because we have talked so reach about ilpjdiv thle and did not do it. At thio time theyertain amount of military atrength, although thia ia far from having the capability of covering all military targeta with atetrdo weapons. The reaearning le simply this, tc strike one sharp blow,ittle blood flow and ths Americans and firitleh will be frightened and withdjnw. Thia Is what he is banking on, but if heever* oounber blow than rmyb* ho wouldnother tune, at th* same time you knovad rromle factor the Soviet Army end population have. This you know fron ether eentrees not only from me.
fceX.
Ht If thin happens what dona h* think will happen to Ho would bo ln on antemble position and mmy hnve to withdraw, Thio rceuYMiY. told no. CJ| would nwirsKJ'Kr bo removed? Hi Ne, Thr/ oould havo aeerredundrod times before thia. Flrat of nil It wouldoss in prontiga and secondly there la no-ons adsuskte to replaoe Mm,of little oonsoquonoo and there or* ho people like MOi/jTW andalla hie. wusf'CT'FVrealioliticianarty non. Ci In other worda ho will juat pull Me horno In but will otlll remain the ohlof. fli lea.
Sr Ry theiah you would pane to ynnr military leaderw the tanee of theee artloiee beonuoo none of themy foolishnees or flippant mteriai. The authora oreh eta tore that any artlele of little consequence would reflect acrlo>uily antinat thor-. articularly request that you call to tho attention of your military laodera the area* significance that ia now being given to the^expenalcn of .oviet bankreat significance la how given to tankToroesank armyare trwastndoue etrlking power. Tou easst inerenee your anti-tanklgnlf leant ly aa well aa build up your own tanka?*
oe burning with dealre iou
irst of all everyone hadM".aid "Hergei^ quit.
a'"
Oi What le the opinion ofthat lo doea he agreeview regarding what the aeetern powers will de? St Zyou exactly what be told KXTOVKYT end Re even oa-eed andaro definitely embarking an a. risky ection". He mentionedle prepared-to reinforce the original olaeh with ccnsidernblehy bank foroee. Put he doee not mnt the mr to opreadrealleae that'the MATO powers have strong nuolear capabilities, but hean the aesunptlon that they would mt um nuclear wmpona in theofonflict. Ifsuch capabilities hla oanoept
would be to launch an all-out initial smshlng blow. Hut he doee not haveare heard thia view erprwaeed isf tiama by anny bfrToars on The (twneral Staff. The people do ran) mnt toor orr/thlng In Fa et Oermany. In addition, we aro subaldlialna. with blllianathe black frtoannd nre ocnetantly Verlhg'vliiTed by their lmdarn and hoe attitude lo why do two things at once?
otm as
*hat do the other high-ranking officials think of thio? The high ronking officials inolvrtlngwho loig nan, realise that we have certain strengths but thnt in wany reepeete we are notrolonged oonfllot, but they simply give orders to produce, to eupport and to execute ordera and they have no choice but to do ltj if they refuse they will be renewed, whether they agree or not they havs to do it. Tc keep their positions and not get thrown cut they would sell their souls to the devil. for example, you mesmber the time nhen VAn-WOY mohief Marshal and mn criticising rjia<RflIWPC* here and there. How at hie party sinoe he hnehief mrahal he raised hie glass ondoast to the health of Hlklta uergwievleh. ellaised my glass, but what the hellrink to Ma for? hought of ycu ond drank to your health. Row, of course, vwwvw la pleased with hla and la willing to produce all the roexetavailable and ha la particularly pleased atcmrmnder in CMef of all rooket_ forces, tactical end strategic^ Ofll people are hum-in and when one receives Ihese grant distinctions and power one will use this power and now VARSiTSOT la favourably disposed tomrda WRitatOMKf.
- to)
they ara slaughtering rnbblta and horses.
*na who vns there when tho aotunl eereerjrry took plaoe?
Jt If he onn re construct In detail how It allho elas waa there withust BftOIMH and hla wife*' Hi ill tell you again. After he hnd received hlahole month and selapsed before we could oongratul/kte him ae he waa absentiC")tf, let alone give htmj the Quaternary tenet*. And he himself felt that he rmsrtarty with
hie clone frienda, and also invited Col. General KirPATOV, The Chief of OAUhe ma away in hWIWWAD at the time and waa not share with hlawhat happened was that one day TQotterlne, Karpovrm rang op mymynalf not being ot heme hut in ay office at the time, and left ahe ahould keep Sunday free aa we want you to eons
to lunoh with us at tho dacha Mint dayt
tfs&Cu-ry-v' The aome meeaaga-order waa given to ro?0VHYT through Iyn.no
Alekaoevra, hla wire. Hlay tho way ho has beenhief -Marshal,efore heotdnute only that 'feratml haahnika. Only the Minister, Tha deputf-ttinlater and tha Chief
of General ataffTOV hasn'thalks either,av* all the riunbera of thesehe meaaage went on "the ear will call forthen you will drive
over to SOKOL to pick up the Rif.nvntfo". and this io whit wevHTT and hla wife, myeelf end ay wife,and bio wife, their daughters Yerlem and little Hatnoha and my daughter Oalya.
fli -fter the maal wao over, they left the table, the children fifteen years old. ltteoussion bognn on mrloua mnttere, w* drank, he alec ranomplimentary toast to mej and ao weut it waauestion of fendrdne psychology, you underotend, th* women do not wanty wifeargsiJJocgeiayioh^but will the agrganentow?;
And he replied "Too, lt will be eignedl" tfhe subject waa dropped thea, however. 'fter we hnd drunk eome more, w* got up from tlie table. Hs had drunk well, vodka, oognao,nd then we returned to tho German problem, thio time on my initiative, taking ndv*ntage of the lead whloh ray wife had achieved on heradn't naked her to dohle la of courseetail, but again parhnps an Importantnd he want on to speakave already reported to ycu. G| alien waa this? On Sunday
Put did HW.VttTT have any opiniorn on thia? Hi Too, he did.
PfWOVHTT actually sow ma off the day before yesterday* averesent of my spectacles whloh "TWfH bought for meas over ln llirtrdngham, as he bad no epectnoles. wo said goodbye andas going on thisnvited himealestaurant. flail, after we had eaten woittle ohat. we alao smears at BreOSnOKW, he ewooro atot ln fact, for hie adventurietlo policy. He actually emote man, generals olnoe he elts with PiTOUSOV, the Coramnder cf theFVO of thoxpressed mhy opinions, both his own and those of other people.
Hut for what reason do those other criticisej"7v? They ore swearing at WiRWciWHTV beoauaa he la makingow when everything la yet far fron ready and he any result in startingon-flAgmtlon and wo will getick in tho purls that blood will flow from our Thin is why they ere smerurlng at hlmJ After all, the gens rale areider view of things, mora especially as PO//jVtffIoliticalolitical worker in the soviet Army.
Oi Of course, ho couldn't have told you ouch things in rsoV'e presence. "i of course not,uat tell you however that TOTOvwyy. hne often enough spoken to TASKrarnov In this vein, and often VARWrmov agr-ed with him even. On various aspects and various problems. Theae are wrioua details foran vouch Leign for] ln my ownmein or an aartery, "hioh ever you please. anyway gentlemen, titer* can be no doubts ahatroever on thia, othomiao wo will find it very difficult to work together or to anree.
1 f
if
Hut do you ooniider thla mayangerous situation for. if thinga camegative situation do you think tho topegin to shout that he had dragged then into the roses? fit Tee, thoy oould. Qi And era remove hin IKhTUJTOHWJ? St Yes, thny oould rerrrrre him. Or sit emotively, they oould leaver tlisy feel that tho Anglo-Aflwrienn Bloo is really prepsred to Mt out not once hut several times Holt ua in the teeth In localised areas and even earn us that they are prepared to go outside ths looslUod areas and Mt uslder scalehen KHPiJttfCrtRV may postpone Ms fixed tine limit. fthat will happen will be that UUnPicw will say somsthing, KJPUSnOHW will support Mn, seen dogma will ho found ond ones agninhs will say. we'll talk about it Iffnyway truth is on our aide!" "orethine of tMs nature nay take plane.
1*1
fit But thereinalould like to mke, even though
Le clear to you, snd it is ny duty to point outigh ranking officer ofne ml staff that If tMs tires we oorae dorm fron our positions and do not show firmness, than PCraiaw1position will be very very muoh strengthened. All the peoples of the world will believe in Mm snare nnd more and he will dictate Ms will in many other questions also. yself an against thnt we (the Rest) should be the first to ertnrk on wide seal*thi* would be an error fron the point of view of vorld opinion and also ws would be doing thi* without proper preparedness. if It is decided to go ahead then one should go full steam ahead detorndnedotalave already told you In vprU/tiy. if not, then show flrnnoaa -to kick him in the teeth once or twioe so an to stop Mn short! Or alternatively to prepare oneself onids aenle, that he will see that before he oan even start anything he will havo suffered oomplote ruination.
0| Put do you consider that thiseeling* or did he get tMs view from some sort of conference? 8i Thi* is not resultonrerenoe but purely because YARKW' gOY knows th* truth of the matter. YATCrTT'inY knows how many rockets there are available. vWETfT-lQV knows what there la new. VAnOTSOY knows what is poselbla and wh-it is not. nows the sua total of what we have available, what is available now and what tha potential is for th* future. ases himselfrue knowledge of our actual truthful position aa it In faot la and not what thay are always saying it la. Mthough they any know Just aa well what YARKTfT.'VjY knows. Ae farnow VAimiTgov andee the situation nnd whichesponsibleast report to my novorment, High Oomrnnd and to youm now balking to you as living responsibleases his evaluation of the situation on the knowledge of the actual true foots of our position.
[Wj) Ot nut doe* he more or less support AMouaroTHY in tMs? or SanaY ho think H| he, ha does not support Mm and those are Y'.R'*IFTSOV's wcrdst -SO are going ahead at greatdem nae (VAI'OTfflOY) le taking' into oonalderatloh the factual reality of the situation andell be possible thatiews oednoid* with the views held^jr^agrilQYj Zi'ATCY, JETOC'IKIN and nRSg'JP. Ho did not detail tMsanmotbut" theet the Impression, Jiklging hin ns en experiencedould say to you tinttfTSOV knew thatd available 1ft,too otondc missiles of variouse would hav*"Oh, thnt is lOnTfioiant fcr us to cover the bases In Turkey, Iran, in the Horth ete." Hut VM?kttpov knows well thnt mtoh is not the case, that he has not get those available, that they are Just only still in the stag* of manufacture, still In tho stngs of planning. VVbWOOV knows nhat ho haa available and he knowslow oould beut oould thle blow be taken to ita logical oonolualon? TMs Is nhats not sure of, hs has doubts bsoauso ha has not got all tMs available.
Ol Do you tMnk your InteUineno* orjrins hare sufficient data ear prop-irodness etc.? Are they reallyosition to evaluate our strength? Or are they only relying on fleeter* intent ions" *ii TMs Is an excellent qu-stlon. Here the point of view of tho ohlefs of Intelligence, aa well ne that of ray colleagues In Intelligence and"myaelf lo that eef the true military position (of then certain, respected iTeTwive; "'TeaT eMmple, "exact knowledge an regards the statu*.
military strength. Hera, Intelligence haa obtained exnet Information. Strategic Inteinaenoe, through itaaland ether meana. haa obtained knowledge of tho location of nil vulnerable pi"oca in th* ayatem of defence and ntr-preparednean. Although theae data are not complete, titers
are certain soArroos of infqrnntion which strengthen KWuwiCiP'T ond. Me OoTemnefit" In "theirview*.' MispoUelea are therefore not entirely baaed on simple "rohnl'rro^noe]! (UPMIMiM bases Mmeelf -ax real factorsohoceatwtTniow all the detalln and on tMs he base* all Ma"Tnaolenoe and rirrmesn.
Oj With reapsot to the Intentions, of the Veat, as far aecan the Intelligence organs give PRUWOTW1 any ponitlv* lee, but not fully. It -nn re,art tohat lt lathat themilitary units nre of BDpt atrength in annponer TMs is th* figure given by',t| Therefore, Judge for yoursslvoal Poo* thle look as thoughhaa got exact date which it euppllee to rrwiCtRT, orIntelllgenoe mtalead hin with the lnfonatlon they provide? TMeyou to check and to decide. And another thlngi Intelllgenoe infprovided not only by Mtmtegio IntelUgonoo Or^rna, hut aleo byOrgans of all Moelaliat countries. nwt tell you thatdayent. In Oorfcl Rtrset, every tine withoutwould neet there acn* representative or otherountry fron the whether In unifom or in civilian clothes,ould seeIt waa aa " urt *n, Pcumanian, or Pulg^rian. time, all the time, there theyth their brief -casea and Peonussesult ofonstant,and wide-spread preparation Is taking pine*ightbeen Introduced to unify pattern of training and Joint operations. day passed without ny running into one of these characters, walking inof all the various nlrvotorates. Therefore tho factual situationIn all itse,ould add that It Is not oovplet*lt In any great depth. por Instance th* Intelligence ripplied byand Bulgaria is rvieh nor* exact that th* inf-mn tlon suppliedHungarian*. Thar Inform tlon la supplied In more detail and, onto be more oorreot. Recnuae all intelligencedo*
ordlntted -nd nilla put together and evaluated.
Gi Pave you rmtloed that there is en Intensifying In the teaks to Intelligence In connection with wwjwv s, To*. t tell you that for instance ths Soviet Mission in neat PWMH is oompoeed entirely out of offloeramtegtaorIt. Col. Petr <xmiM who was at the Academy with mo, we"*both finishedJ. tie is not there now actually, ho la on leave in MOSCOW. Pocent ly we wont together to the restaurant 'drngvi1 end ho told no how the Americana hndMm sevsral tinse. Tou know thoy wear Qovist uniform, hey are not in oivillan ololhes, tMs is the ftoviet Hilltnry Mission in rest PVTCLIH, so, he told n* how the rmerloana stopped him and told himi "Tou are In the wrong sons" and OORifTOv" replleet ntlemsn, open the mp and look atav* perfect right to be here, in thesetreets'. Rut the Amerloans insist "Wo, you ore not In your sons" and they surrounded him, but he showed fineness and after looking at the nap, lt turned out that OO^WOV was In his ritdits nf tor all and had not Infringed any regulation* nhioh oould allow Mm to bo accused of provocation. Put such provocation* do happen and they (the Soviet Mission) are working there now full steam ahead. They are all from the 'trnteglo Intelligenco.
Do they busy themselves with determining tho mood of th*
people and all that ? n, , all that, ould like to point out- in our actions, there must be an element of sober andour actiona must shoe assurance /confidence and, on top ofmitfit slso introduce into ourlight element of advsnttolarawa oould drum It Into Ma skull and disorientate htmtAnWSiiO'lW). you bringank Regiment, but lt should be announced to beDivision. Jell. 1st Intelllgenoe search like and to find theof thohere can they be. hut let all the fovistlet all theignaf the BAP'VhW Pact realise thatEnglish, lrrenoh and (ienrnna ofready to nest
seriously and stand firm eoninst thin provocation regarding risst nKRUR and the
intention to subJiesUs Westhat is aa alcar aa blaok on nhit*.
I^fc it be clear thai (the -est) will stand firm end are prepared tolow of doatiuotlon, but they do not wont to be tlie first to strike, eo that all the peoples ahould sec who ia the real aggressor and who le the defender of truth!
i
ItAW j
k i
j-
W<V
test
i, id jou not pother from your brother officers in.
that thoy have boon given new mtsalcns and they find oonditicno of oork there two diffloult now nnd that they have move tasks to fulfill etc. Bi id dlecuaa this ratter. Conditions of work were alnays diffloult there, thoir leek lei to find out oasntly what the Americans, Knftliah and French ore doing. at is theirctive task, the one that is druaend into tliolr skullo daily Aid on nhlch definite reaulto are deencded. Not only demndad but they ore under constant pressure for reaulto. All sorts of information la dsanndedi what new uniteppeared and shore, shut are their mnfcere and designation, tetat typo ofhetlior artillery, engineering or Mr Faroe.
ow about the popular views arid reactions? Thoy aro also
1-elng studied. an alao give you ths views ofnd the views xou know, nWIWKPIlUJV, not vWaUtOV, hut KHOITOJeillOV JuriJa lao studied at tbe KiCThoolid, but heyear before me. id shed9 and he After that heunder OUliiTSOV at the oademy and later ho ooncBjided aoorrtwnttonal Artillery. How he lediiof of Staff under RuVUI who laArtillery Coiranderank Army, but .Ui'lN is leaving| will rem* of rtillery of tbo lank Army. nw lilmrecently, noani at restaurante invited mej his own MOSKVICH oar, he came to collect no. And hla views are- this is shot he toldare going to shoot us down,
theee Ooronns of ours, like prtrtridges,,if no do not tareircular dCsnoe poStttph eo thatould pulverise evorybody% "Alia theae are ejmctly thei'idjV. was very glad that theae two aolonala should have such confidence in me, and they know me well,7 KJTOROSTITfV knows melso haa known me for many yearo andoets >no, and loveo noriend, our fasdlies meet often. And FKDOHOV told me Wot in sejrtenbor vdll_btoin tha inns ovaountion of (Soviet) fainilloo from the CP.R. inoayhippni next,V should know booauae he has" his nife Shuroohfca there and twooyirl; the boy goes to oohoolras. oey from whore nsWROY's brigade is located U'omrwntohool io in RVJ.IBBnu}.
Do they oonsider tliatrotracted certfllct.
forces will run away, over to the Seat? 3i Thioecond point. Tho flrat thing thoy spoke to me about ma the attitude of the ordinary (fcoet)he cl.-ili, nn, not thend thia raced la bnd. ao ro,yirda tha armies ofheyery low opinion of lta cenctnlsation ond itshat the hell la his nuns - (they consider) hoery mediocre'asmndingoroee}. ao regards. offlcera, they en id "ffe are not sureen, thoy can turn eithera roffirda tho ordinary soldier, thoy didn't express any definite opinionidn't ask. But thle nan, the General ccctmndingorces, I've forgotten Ills name, hut he iaool. Wo eee him on manoeuvres and ho ohown no doep tlilnklng, no wise or large-scale vision, ho la very superficial and medicare. But the main thing is that theyvieto) are of raid of the ordinary Gerrann eltlsena, they Just hate the "oviete. They will shoot then down like partridges aa soon as we go out into the fluid of buttle, we will (have to) take up nil around defence and fight botho and. Oermana who will have run over to desert.
Id*
And what if the I'olea too rose up end attnoked against the
f oonisr^icaticns? iii Uod grant that thia will happen.
Xowould like you to roud thle extremely Thiaook of the letter of_ths Centralnotee of theVl-TC^
touestions siitec thesehotogrnphed the repaid hs gave ao that Mr.our leaders oould check and see what rlT.pmceports tothsnot only cfall the cetnnurdet parties of the world.
beoauso rou will Me atinning of thliop secret order tothonndo GASTitO, to the Deoretarioa of tlie Commi irt parties oi* Italy ete. That la to aay theviet AaJmaeudor will sussaon TuOUATTX for inatanoe and will road the oontenta out to blew lou will see, there la an esneytlomlly interesting introductory note there, giving inatruotione how te peas on the oontenta of thia to the CannurdBt party lea dare inbe regional nooroWlea, because thle letter le not to be eaen by all mernbert indiscriminately, and how to paee on the oentente to the Ocmmurdstor the sister parties in the root of the world| and' separately for ComradeheAria sen tore In the respective countries, will eunoon theae people and paaa on to than vwrbally the contents.. itoot interesting intrediaatory note, please translate it and paee it on lo ourt Is srat interesting for than to see how all thia la done. And this oontalna not only all
ao-ealled etateawnta, but also hla concluding remark to ESWnajri ar. JusdffOI, infomAtisJC end DR-AUm that If they do not sign on our Condi ticca, theru will be var)" At least that la what ha telle the Pxrty he said to KRJIMMW, but perhaps it wasn't quitend that le the interesting thing.., reniendoua political aralysis ehculd be made and yourereat Job here.. I
beg /ou Le paea it on to yourer;rents atthen
remarks how impressed he aaa with the flra answers giveno DlR'lVO!EV, and goes on to reau cut extraota from the dooitsont inhis will bring to light tne real etate of affaire and the atUtude of. and W'tuaHOWf towards thlehat le to say 1 propo^nda, agresssivensss andt le neat Important that lOWNKUi ahould know
ffhan do the autumn nanoeuvres tatre place In. -
they for it stanceefinite nllitary character te thin eutmun'e rotneouvres, to give the impressionype of mobilisation forn view of the KiRlle* situation? Ht Mo such derrmstrative manoeuvres take place whiuh are lnover up for noma sort of planned nohili-satlon ae lt ie considered that everything is eondrmted in ouoh absolute conspiratorial secreoy and all in no euooesefully oonoealed, that no extra prcoautione ore neasnserymkjooI an actualJust Foe1eview la now taking phoo of recentnd It is ollowing itsnow shout 'it, you know shout Itewanoeuvrea are not arHanlaed ao ae to oonooal aotual aobili nation. On then order te impress the west that you nave ouoh and ouoh roroes, st avterwtand. There are. no longer spring, eemssr, autunrt ranoeuvres, now we have only one type ofoth ihaide thel.H. and in the" Peoplee rmnmorsoioe, Of bined liuhoouvres inoluding one ci vial OR from Ptn, ner aSs? and theee manoeuvres will" continue, Tiut thoy are no longer split into spring, airtum, winter, or garrisonhey are working in nocordanoeraining plan.
(uoy Si vho ^all-up le proceeding according to ajro. lOiPiftWIEY tele said people ere tc be "returned" ivoflrraehatj. re-called) and the Ciatrlot Militaryve started re-caUlng tlie teohnloalpereannei, Ifcey are not taking tne others yet, they havee" take It for granted that everything that la done inn. le done under cover and in tide case the rmnoeuvrea areover for mobilisation.
(li hut when the alarm la sounded, when thesituation ^Bcocms scute, will thio affeot all the WHArf paot elgmtorlee? Si Tea. Uimultarmously. fhey want to do all thia as ooon asrA (Party) Congreae finished lte work. Ths Congress will take place in October.
at le the opinion ofleers ln tha Soviet Union with regnid topossible revolt in anyR, Polandun give you an exact answer to thia qujetion, tiuoh things are not expected. Ho plans have been aw.de for this. 'hen hostilities begin. If the situation le .avournble vhen tne active element* go into action, then the ml sol on le accoapXlehed. if thingo becaae difficult the reinf croemant |
will Join in tho fight, ond tho alleged rennun will bo, cny# for thoof Pernnny, ete. Thin le tho aspect in rt-luh this probleei Sa Boon here. 0: oan if tho ver expands. Then plans oui be brought into being nhichbeen prepared by yesr XntoHlaana* and your Cemrrjid. tlie wn-wt situation forPoviet Aray is thnt tho cut enlisted rven will defeat ao Boon na notion starts. hen youistol to smoene'n head he'll keep quiet. Thoy only really expeot InHrldual notions, and thorn won't be any large scale ones.
Ci VJhAt do you think would happen if the loading echelons ths fleet Artsy no-ad bo rest florsnn troops? Do you think nermns would shoot at follow oextmns7 Hi Do not oount on th* RIB armies refusing to fire on the FRO ones. They will lire. vieta don't count on nil Oer-mne who are underlw njjn officers and men fighting the ;'esfchat laertain amount of pureeing ia going on, but thoy are eertaln that the entire tin? Army will not lay down their arms whon ordered to fire on tho 'leatorn armies. Oi pinion ia this in addition to your*. 3| ftntfROSatiOV'* PBUOROV's, RiBAPW's and TOPIH'a. KfflN la way pleased tlat h* le being transferred fromtoUtary Vistxiot, and so is his wife.
L
f
VAJWTflCVot, perhaps hs doesn't tell it all, when hs voices hla opinion hs tnko* all lieinto oonoidsralion. Hin opinion is that thsis not right for action. I* re told you why this ia hla opinion.
Oi Rut if they really want on extended war to breakr* ths mln stops thoy would take, other than in the Porlin situation?overrniRnt of adventurero nnd his Cl'i oonslder Inn so, moos destruction by the firing of rockets. This is in -dew of tho fact that the Internal eitwitlon Mil not stand up to ox-tended rallifary oporatlone, morale will not stand up to thorn, desertions will start In ardor to save lifo,esult of personal 'Ussatisfaction, low standard of living, he plan is to alum you with rccVets for rmse destruction and then ths Internal eitw tlon will right Itself on Its own. They nr*_relying ondestruction for which thoy are actively preparing. There Islan. ade irveslf oiear?"
eport along the line of what you have just told ua bed sent to us appeared in the Westernfaxt would be th* Soviet people's reaction? Hi They would novcr got to know about lt. All the Soviet Press Is under the Control of the Central Commltt**. For example Mr.eolnratlona were only pubUshod in full in the mgasinerbeahoraj, whichery limitedend it,are aoeesD to all publications. Only excerpts were publiehsd in tho dally preen. Itery fine artlole well thought out and if our people read Itould see thlnge as they really ore. However, thoy only ses Pravda, Isvestln nnd othsrsenl yellow Pros*.
"l 3hat about Oovernraent officials" How would thoy reaatyon have raid andin. ^i If lt reached all the various branches of theit would, undoubtedly,ery strong impression. Put believe *i, certain.papers, narkeded qlflsslficntion don'ten party dtatriet hnBs. hey ire' fed on 1band
Ot 'Jhat would happen if en didlu*ouih thoir fcvnk foroes tkinn aoooss toou suggested? 3i Thoydouble strength in thnt area, and then wo would have to double ours, clapping thera In the tooth onoo again. Oi "nd then they will rotront? lit res. Hoour problem is to burn their tonka out and plaoe our there.
Oi "hoy do they have to cover the rood aofvenohea tCP'SJAW oviet force n? ir thoyreaty they om uoo the Oeroan foroes.
.! lt#oau** ** Hc-evwr, the Soviet Army win be
G| o the Hermans but relnforoed
91 Too.
the second eupvort eolielonhle net will bw known to theerman regiment my be beaked upoviet PivieAon.
very flrat unlta will be or* unlta? by ttovlete.
Qi
*ith rmrrmn or
Nairn oviet wlroraft? , -Ith liermon and Sovieteetly Soviet
Bow will they oontrol the air corridors? romft? inoe the Rermnno hove very few.
win
fightern.
However, Joint nation ia planned.
ill they ehoot down the nestem alrcmft| shoot thorn down. They ere linking pieporatlono for thio.
Does VWRflTSOT think thle too? Q, Tea. 'fteroa^ot the Head ofm continuing the analysis whloh Sergei Mergeevieh has said ln reply to your eerleue nnd very detailedave tried to tell you all from thia soiree. Tou can cheek lt by other
0, line he aald anytiilng3 in corswotlon withfcev* already told3ested rooket whloh ean be
found everywhere, oven in tho Merlin area, it is produced In large quantities. Thntroven weapon ln whloh they believe. m euro thio weapon Is already In Germany.
24.
Oi So In spits of the fhot that Sergei Sergoevioh onyo that the le ready for signing your opinion leU3ICHKT may HOTt if enough pressure le brought to bear? hi Tea, JWUfSifCMBV knows that he had any deficiencies. have been witnesses before now of WrWOFJBf retreating or reusing new dates, or Just shutting nO, ant to repent once again, Let ue take the situationi The out have set out their blocking forces the second line le formed fron "oviet tankeartillery, ww break through, they send rvnlrdoroementa into the breach, but they will stick to the seme limited ores. The oast forcesnot extend the fighting ores. Rs aunt be prepared for thennrfjie and expanding the oonfllot but noocrding to the plan in force now, they will not expand the oonfllot. They will, however, increase foroee oontln-mily in that area ontil they ars overwhelmed. So va muat hnre enough fanes to auppreae them.
Oi Do you still consider, in spite of the fact well known and the Soviet Oovsimwnt that the main strength ae stern forces are mainly strategic end not taotloal, that la locally, incpenn rhentroa, do you atill think it la necessary or advisable tohew of force spedfloally in ^irope? ;it fas, show strength on German territory. This ispinion alaoi that it will allocalised characternly several flare-ups, aevaral battles in the none ofhat he VARrarnoV means hy seme of ocmmunl-ontlona andean by sons of Oomnurdaationa is,long theye and milronda leading to Merlin.
Oi And what do the Soviet OcvevTsnent ocmldJer will be the key tatepo for defence on the part of the ;eetif the latter decide to hang onJH to the bitter end? s, They expect the foUowiiw, apid completion of re-arming of the voo and alao increase the strength of their forces in Europe, both in ramhero and armaments. And thia lathey femrl The publication by Mr, ttWHTHTf ofilliard increase in the defence budgetery strong impression. Prnvo, good for hlml That kicked then in the teothl They are convinced thatdUlarda ore gcdng to he aprn-ovwd, although tha Soviet High Commnd are oonvinood that there are also some other secret military funds nt the dlBpoat of tho armed foroee (of thofter all theee exist In tho Soviet Army and thehey are therefore convinced that olthc'igh theyillion, they will have nt their disposalrhey arend already thoy are
beginning to scratch thoir heads.
0| rthnt va* tho lmpre anionesult of tho rranoh movinghack rromto Kurope? "i roat nciao waa raised everywhere that thia ia an obvious preparation to Interfere with tha signature of tha egraaeant and aoHany mrs alndJar preparatory move* must tnko plana ao that thadronturer, that ha will riaw lt in the broad venae of thinga and notalculationurely email operation of loonl importance only but in ite general aideapread ear If he will receive several mora kleka tl the teeth like theaee will be faced with the folloeing dlloanmi either let thinga oaba down and aooept ths fact that tha weat la ao well prepared that It oould move overeneralnd he will certainly do ao been use he himself la not ready to answer (hit) book in folll Suppose he willomber over theae islands where areocket into America, and thia will notirectne budeta known perfectly wall that all tha strategic airfare* (of the) arned with roeketa la hanging fire over thee knows that very wall and he la keeping it In sdnd, but he enyg out loudt I've got the eamal But ha hasn't got the aura -that'a Just ltl Oi And Sergei Oergeevloh knows thla too? fli And ilergel sergeesrieh knows thla and aeyai We are goingamble.
And theye ready in NoveaSber either? Hi Wo, after
all how much If there left till Woveebar? Of oourae, lt won't be ready, But the order has been given te reinforce everything already available, to train, to complete equipping with armaments, correct (faulta)very tilingar-footing.
8| Aa I've already toldonsider thle ny snored to point out to you that the Soviet Wish Cenwrand and ^US'OOrfith hla govern sent ore not only one singlen thla Oerean oorridor (Area) bat severalhat le to aay he will build up the attack in the hope that he will break up the advancing forcea of WATO in this area. ne will for instance send out and deploy there say ene tanke (the vest) destroy it. Me-rrcKv) will at ones send out anothere has anotherave already told you how man. asntea he haai how mny aradea there are in the OCR, CBeohealovakia, on our Soviet territory (Soviet Union) in Poland ete. tarakaI beg you to pass on and treat with due importance andhia ialuff, theae are notheae are tanka moving rapidly on oaterpillara and firing! If these ar* knooked out, he will repine* than with others, sayingill make thea choke in this oarridorl" e most do everything in our o sake tuba choke instead! it* will then bs faced with the dUscmi what to do next? I* lt worth going further or not? And since he Ms not got the strength to fight outeneral wide-spread front, he will have to pipe down. Or alternatively if he find* out thixsigh Intelligence sources that thsr* will bs endless forces thrown in to replace the ones he knocks out, then he will atop at th* very beginning and will not carry on the th* algrdnp of th* aseeiaaat. Thea* are th* poeelhillUee.
Oi Do you think lt posslbl* that Sheay attempt to ue false and sdalending Information through Intelligence channels? ii ou mean des. Isa, thle la being done constantly. Thar*paeifio category of notlvity. Specifically they aay spread rumours thnt the forcea of. are larger than actually and that they ar* all in oorabat randlneea and thai)lT has boon making aucoeaaful and popular visit a, they can lie about the atatua of the nut German soldlera morale.
Are thoy aotually doing thia now? St Xea, and thay will
io do thia. Si Do you know of any speolfio operations now in Vprogreas? ror anusple, lnforn tlon givenouble agent recruited by the or through any hluh level penetration tiny any hav*?
Thla is all oonslanted basis and la controlled by ons Nteadouarters. This la known tn ORSXIXTJ who is STsn related to KHF'WlWJTr nnd he oonaults with him on these political matters,now of any eyeaif lo example*
32J "H Do yen know of any high lwrel penetrations inleetrnnwnte who oo-oparato with KJRiwtCKBY and on whom hs any dependvmufl policy? Or Tea, there are, all tho Sooretarlea of foreign Ooesmrnist Parties in oaplhslletle eountrle a. These should be strangled, but reiy little la done about then.
Oi ean noneConsunlat persona who are prtsalnent? 3| bout Cyrus Satone por ted to you about him. As this il Ccandttes letter shows ths addressees aro all Connunlst Forty seretartea and others farourable to KHffDSCHKt. nnnet understand why these Comnaraata ars not eliminated, they did this enoe before in Turkey* ether of the free worldealise that sry governments ore wise,ustomplete fool sinoe it ia totally Incomprehensible to nn why persons like CASTfK) and TOOOUATT and tho other Oosavrniets in the test are not elisdmted since they aro obMeueflyifth Column. Aa persona these Individuals are notut thay do influence messes of people. At ene tine ATTATiPtK. Bitot the Cosrasrlsta snd in liter years, NAiiaw* and AAS'IW also threw them out, why owi't we do the eame7
/ "V (Subject continues to arltlolee the husardtarlan and Uberal ' ffeaxern nations for not wiping out all CerssunlstB within thoir reach,his arg<nenta on tha very letter from the Oentral Oosndttes which appeals for Comwnist support throughout the world. Hubjeot stressed his lrrtlmte hijajaetga of the Communist Party operations nhloh ar* completely deoaitful and wrdoh he is trying in every nvy he oan to oonvinoe the CovsrnmentM of the test to take stem measures against. Subject partio'darly emphasised the danger thnt CA8TTO may influenoe other rat Inpeoples appearingatin-type LKhUt).
a few sdnutes int*rmisaina subject said)"We hav*
agreediv* you ell and ws will join all our foroea andfor our work. Touav* been working together for lassear, la fact ws has* been working together sinoehi Tes. Sf ewery few monthB. let as leek at the results. Ae, with your help, under your direction, with mj possibilities, w'llo not exavarate, wa brought toeries of new luastlonsoliticalealing with Central Ceornitteeo touched upon manyelated to th* OPT* nhloh daals with technicala It now clear to aa. I'r* told you how the delegations are mad* up, you read that representatives of ATD and I ana are included. na hav* brought' to light military questions. We consider our task* to have been carried out. Oh, but thisnly the beginning. er cent".
n% if we analyse everything! oonorete question*,inform tlon, eome of whioh possibly needshatlaw,laleotie point of view, ws also ar* learning adtaleotlosype different from the Marx kind, ws hav*other a
Hi w* already have the sural ri ht to aay thnt for sen* of th* que et lone we nowew view, we hav* *ertaln snterial whiohe thrown out, amterlal extracted from our ooareon anale of opinione, imderstanding oonveraatlona, nlahes, and actions. Thato saycnaider that our work la aimedarget, ltn ny-el dad,otarrow, one-si dad aspect.
All right we haven't got to the bottom of sons things,
but we'll get there. everything can't be don* at one*. Thle la the first road we are standing on. uarantee that the conditions of any sudden aggression which any be planned will be lmmadlateTy oceraunioatad te
oraplste with fact.. What theae foots are going toill let you know,iscover them. That le one of the principal tat Vs. Ot Of course. g, and eo when woerlee of new, baale facte there la onem afraid of. n afraid that wa won't be able to oarry through to the snd and get the facte to our organisations, to our authorltiee, eo that thoy oould drawpractical collusions.
/for cameras
ould Ilka to bo wrong. Take for example that letter
and introduction. One nuat understand that CASTRO ia not only going to read lt for lnfcw-mstlon. There la lot we don't know, and we nay nsver know, because my hand carrying the MlWtt cannot ranch that fox, neither can our eyea reach that far. Thio auat be developed hovfever, if this much ia given to CASTRO, and wa know that nd11Ions are being given hln, than ha la Involved also in other thinge. .Vhat conclusion can wo draw from thia? Hllmlmte him, at least atop him from developing more followers. That lo wore wo ore going to lose unnecessarily If wo do not do thio. How can wo achieve thia. o not know how many more Central Committeeill hove to open. ill open everything that paeaee through my hands. Xou are helping an ln my search, by giving me mate rial as si stance. m new able to take people touydrinks. ive presents. Everybody is pleased. People aek me to get them things. R'JUlH himself has asked me to get hlra three setfl of batteries, hut has he given ma money? JJa are going to buy then, you are going to spend- Then people have naked ma to get cameras, rings/and so on. We do all this but wo discover only thio and that. ant deep ocnolesnOns to beon't expect to suddenly uncover some thing, just like spreadingarpet.
0| #hnt nnkea you think that we ere not doing this? ni eing done. tt, Tou don't oonsider that it is possible tomorrow morning to aot on your suggestion since there are ocnalderationsaotieoluestion of timing. Si Tou can kill maannot see what are your tactical considerations in the natter of CAJWiio. "hy do you keep OASTOO on? Oi OAftTTO will fall. Stops ore being taken and at the proper time.
U*r> 8| one day! With this "one day, aometimen we ndaa the bus. right momentactor, surely you don't fly thousands of kilometres to see no, in order to any ou are our friend". m your friend. m pleased to ess you. Tou sre pleased to see me. an't give you all the secrets of OHM, all the saps, all thaet near there. There are documentstxahal reads ond signs for, and if he mints to re-read them he has to sign for them again. So they know that Marshal so and ao read thio dccument five times. Ho one aloe can ceo these doouments. on't eee usarshal, Takence he hashief Marshal, he begins to like BWUfNCHaT, you can't get anywhere near him, That'o the way people act. He la well off financially, he has power, nB naara badges of rank, hear, he has foil owe re, heuite, hoacha, so "long liveSV"l And who lo iwnihaiciivT? VAnnNToo? used to ony that RWWCIOHSYool and an adventurer, and now he drlnka hie health. aised my gfct sai what can one do,ldn't drink to him. aner to you that he waa thinking ao we do but since he has started wearing tho enormous USSR coat of arms -it'a all over. tnnan. You can't explain everybody's notions.
f Si tou soy laugh at ne and callraggard, but Iupon myselfanot. ave so farvery little, but no matter howan givean'teverything. And you won'tevery Directorate. one
muat fact the truth. Tou mustroader view. for this far-elghted men exist. Theee wise, far-eight ad people ahould be nore decisive. That le the wishtrategic officer, member of cnjq staff of one of the brancheeJ of USSR. Oi nsure you thio Is being done. Si Ho,
-
at th" svsaent. Oi Tou can't always hnvo tha results put In front of you* $t hould sitharea<ding toethod that thsy) bslisrw us* Or ale* we Just gat together and drink el re. Si hare suoh aourooa at our disposal, and, thoy can't he carried through to their logical conclusion. That lam afraid of* God forbid, Ood forbid. how take Kr. KXROU). or* hin varyhin* of hin every day,o of you. Mnk of you (of hin) snny tinea during tb* day. o to bed atonder what he is doing, whether he In thinking of an. isten to th* radio -
to-day ar. ilAROTD lookedhiaand aid
otlon of artlolee, noteworthy abstract art lo las" but they ar* not, they ar* the views of (fit* of the USR,
Oi Ae only de vol oped then to-Ony. hav* Just received then, sill sort thia out among oursolvoa, but. th* high-ups, thatnteeaage,ria* greatly, he any *ay "thi* la notaw want". Vhla ien afraid of. Oi Do not carry about thla. Tou ar* eiload and th* sate rial aa wall. Pi Thi* la our first meetlngi w* ar* just getting organised with the elucidationumber of questions, no* material,est wanted to tell you what was bothering as. 0| Tou* toll. fli Allhings won't atop an* Our contract la to fight. (Oi explains subject's worries In lagh). Oi Tou have the lssntieno* of youth. moung nan, look at my grey hairs. Touold you if a* don't risk all our diamonds, gold and valuables we will be destroyed) If we risk than our wealth will be tripled. r* taking tee long to get started. 81 wear toelieve an,trategio officer, thea* fir at atepa of firm declarations,irm poet tl an, taken by Mr. MaovlUan, Mr. Kenrndy, that excellent follow da Oaulle and Adenauer, who Isood chap, have already hs-ought intoew element* Perhaps the best thing te do la to declare you hav* nor* than you have* -by should thi* bald devil get awgywith everything, everybody listens to him, hend perhaps 9nt is ths right aay to aat* And all ws do is say, "better don't do anything".
uM^/) Ot Cm thia subject, oould you tell as, hew con we misinform sdhX*Mmld devil. Perhaps his Intelllgenoe people do not have all th* foots. St Hi* Intelligence rtorvioe is ran, ell powe^rful. Ot Row ean we get lelee lafcomtlon through to him? Mi ittle and magnify lt five times. epent prepare tanks, anti-tank defence, Increase your force a. Do lt on th* sealsivision and aay you've get an Arny Corps. And dtsainlmt* this irdbrsntlon along all channels} press oonferenoe, and all th* rest. (Say te him)i "Ton dirty svun so you now declare that you will sign without ua, after being our ally during tho war, after w* hav* fed you,av* supplied you with wwaports, with transport. All your artillery, all calibres, would have been eur* In mud had we not supplied ths transport. and now you willfully want to Mellon up Porlin". ssure you that this la just th* flrat step, he will swallow herlin. Tell him "for thla behaviour we are going toyour face", Ihia will aake Mn stop and think* Ot Oan we do anything about thla alongne UnssT Of And you must work from all aides.
Oi what is ths 5th Direotcrats, OWJ, doing about this? Si Petting up their agency networks tagenturaj* Have yon read that letter of nine? All thle is still going on, all agency network* hav* been activated and are in direct contact. Thia ia being done everywhere, including the ocOntrlaa of tho Fbr Kast, Gt rtltti record to tliequestion, hav*CWO 5th directorate} agents not become activated., all brancrare. Th* tasks have already been allocated.
now,orget. SOD* Iff haa gone on leave. II* haa
beeneneral. And by th* way he was an Air "'ore* oclonal, but ha* now become an infantry General. he was preparing to go to Turkey, then he used tho following afjbterlhrge. no aaid his wife ansa
didn't want to go to Turkey. Ho thay aald to hin 'you scoundrel, we
ZSl/TZ *to do aa important Job. Tou
p"reelW.urn .ndng -gent. fro. otheraoeon there,to.- Thle
anded
tho papers MWt)ll toOcnaral POWTBOfT yesterday, ho Baked me te get Mm/nylon jWrt, neek eemeuremente.ee Mm the paper
* told you about glrlng B'TOS a
talej^cm, thehad already been elgned, iU PQf/TTHTT hod to do ia enii re-typadpecial fane foro aign, and enoe lt hea been alenad PoROThTT will keep It until ny return to UBTR. 6VD*1H
aswa me before he left "netelephone, evenm trAm away-.
Hl-appllaatlon he. either already heenTled foreiU
^ll,"wdirrounded eo that ae oan be kept informed. If we do thle we will be od.ee people.
Cli/ ti Idaten, through what channels and what aotunllyIn order for lt to eound Ilka the truth toOT*TT about foreea, ete. n, the heat aay would be through thoee people ahe we hare doubled and who work- he believe,he irportani thing la tothat there are more roreee ate, St lea, that wehnvoatomlo adsslle launehara Latomnye puahXlj.
rt^aeh to tMe fallen. na have got to errrlsag.
the situation lnay that should the necessity arise wsatom mr-he-da to ABeOAi Tou oan asy -ee didn't want tohim, but if you {KmmV>m) are going to take eo--aided actionus to do
Now you are going toumber of visits to your
Mnsay here. there people In the ROBlderrtura or ths Bmhassy. among ths am personnel, who you tMnk oould have reliable information on the fl-MLW question? Perhaps they haws received special Inst rue tl ons,LV^ oouiabst in the event of worsened relatione it had been decided to send fewer delegations, either to Bngland or to other HAT* oc-rrtrles, er perhnpa they heve eat down en the nweber ef families allowed to aocrnpany Ceshaeey officials. Do yon tMnfc there oould be such lndlootlanwT 3, Tee, there oan be avnh indlcatiern. They should be watched, and analysed.
or you to ask -abet do you tMnk .bout
the nvrujt* question? Pow will it roaot on you here ln nTtrljovrr hi leg, ofould disouea tile natter. as said that he would like me to visit Ms home. I'll toll you about It. Actually, PAVLOV when hs wns leaving feraskedransfer out of here and they mnt to makeounsellor for Technical Mot enoe here and Deputy Resident to WT, Then recall Mmear and make me the Wealderrt for hngland. TMs la the GRU plan, but the central Committee will say -And whe la rtt'.'f'rT Ttrt fhtherhite offleer whe fought against the "owlet ^overrrweit and Ms son oould finish that Coreniasiit off. Kwaetly -hat the eon Is in aotoal fact doing. (Taugh.), gm, haa oonplete
entjrjy. Head
cf Cadresave Mm two fountain pens, tho most expensiveought hereardsottle ef scent. Me
tMe is sereirrasslng"y embarrassing, they gave me these gifts, believe me theMtedrue name) our present tohato do with ell tMs lot?" "Sell, in that case, thank you very much".
The laoney that the U. u. and Drltlsh i'^vernment give me
I do not apend on myaelf only. Wd you gtv*re eonU nf things (a, goes en to
able lighter, shapedocket, wider, he sawtery eleetrie raaor, which he intend,
giving VARPTgOTirthday ores-itheptervber. when"in ee to j.
Son* you be on leave at that
* postponim* ay leave, asrarpova haa said totheartiste have already
l (subject than goes on to
that thoyottle of alne panned In tho year vnPJBTCaOTborn and anJceift of lt. Thle ploy had errnroua suoeeso
ftoiuVeVe'
when used by tho Counsellor In CAmm, OOTtJHOV whoimilar gift to UennadlJWUVJrD (orIDTH'S Deputy)- f
thtBn to eay thnt "Ihe Chief Marshal"T3onth. Loot trip when rTjZOVHTTonoe again flying to the big inlands" heen-Mge
for him -not to forgot oldo subject brought Mmimber of glfte forif and hie wife. hey hla aod me. la opito of the fact that heich man, he haa earing, amounting to hundreda of thousands ln old ourronoy, he adores presents". Kveryone going abroad brings presents* .
I think I're told you everything about the OCTX teendttee. There la nothing acre on the Committee. Tea. but here le southing important aboat BWUJN, oould you find out whether speoial tanka have hewn given either to ths Re el dent or te sasaone else in jour fernaay here? Have lnrtruotlone been given on whet notion le to be taken should tha situation there deteriorate, whato bo undertaken In *nglnnd with regard to the Berlin amotion have they bean given? *j Thnt lo olear. m sure there lom aura vWonl* did not eome loot by ohnnee, hs has some kind of siaaioni he la the Head iNnohelnlk HapnTleruyaJttxeotlon.
Oi so would also like to know tho personal opinionr ofotnff, if thoy dareereonnl opinion, mrUcularly if they dieagree with nfonaiirjirHV. s, an find out obout the inatruetiom received, but not tho opinionn and thoughto of the colony. It would look sueploloua forOPOOW man sentedarysrlc rate^orf' to try and find out people'e opinlone.
Oi If you wake notes do it very Innocuously. explains very safe aay of mnkinR notes, then nnee again on to deeerlho hie ting with the woman and her oJiildren and the clever nay In whloh hs noted. He also suggests tint as he is Head of Deparhrwrrt he oould quite anfoiy be invited to ths Prltlah Rtrrneey. Ho has already been invited by the Americans, at the time ebon the Patent Delegation visited the USSR). 0t After you ant hersay reception offloielly there wouldogical legend for greeting her ln town later.
suggests thnt there be no meeting the foUovdng day as
heot of work to do and muat meet hie people. Thio wouldive the other people time to study the material available* -follows argument aboutuit ahould be bought for subject. Heark grey suit for next day. M. agrees to get one for him at Simpsons. Also whether orental pi-te could be nade for him, since his Moscow dentist le very Uae
was shown the rasp of London to orient ban. list of people he knows in frigland. R* ortniiroiw. HJirrvicov haa given him hie card. He haafor aubjeot. ROJTK whom eubjoot met ot tho Kair in UMnXth eheoks over list of dooumante he had brouuht with him and waa
next meeting wae act for the ax^ernecn ofnotB
would relay exaot time. Subject then refers toIalt to rOMOl and asya that the Soviets hnd givenot of arms and moneythay really want to hit the Putd. Tha nituntlon there lo very serious and an attack any atnrt thia year. i'ubjeot win giro furthor dsteils Inter.
"ubjeot left0 houro
Original document.
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