(MEETING AT MAINZ, W. GERMANY, 29-30 OCT. 1986)

Created: 10/30/1986

OCR scan of the original document, errors are possible

TAPE Al

TncETING AT MAINZ, W. CSRMANY. CT. A)

THE RECORDING IS VERY DAD))

PRELIMINARY CHATTER ADOUT TRAVEL SCHEDULES. ETC. ))

tP-'ORE YOU START TO TALK, I JUST NEFD ONE PIECE OF INFORMATION THAT

IsA'SkYIVEN THE UNREST THATTHERE ANY DANGER

PLANE IrfHEN IT CETS INTO BANDAR ABDAS RIGHT NOW.

AKu

SAMII: HAKII1:

civEr

Interpret>) (asks if there is any dancer to the plane.

current internal unrest in iran )

NO. IT'S NOT IN DANCER. EW WORDSAVE RESOLVED. IT'S UNDER CONTROL. HE WAS TELLING USEW WORDS UNCLEAR >) BUD'S TKIP EW WORDS) ) OHORB AN IFAR, THROUGH HIS.. FOUND OUT. HE FOUND OUTEW WORDS))? YEAR OLD FRIEND OF CHOR0ANIFAR EWPPRISED OF EVERYTHING FROM DAY. ONE, AND WHOPORTION MISSED) ) THE TRIP OF BUD, THAT EXPOSED, THTPF WERE PUBLICATIONS FROM THOSE CROUPS ?IN THE? COUNTRY, FROM STUDENTS AND THINOS THATEW WORDSRIP OF MCFARLANE TO IRAN. BUT HE SAID THAT THEY HAVE BROUGHT IT UNDER CONTROL, ON'T KNOW HOW.

HAK III:

CAVE: NORTH:

SA-1II: CAVE: HAKIM:

HAKIII:

((INTERPRETING)) HE SAYS THAT HE DOESN'T EVEN KNOW IFEW WORDS Ut IDLE AS)) MCFARLANE 'S MISSION. NOT THE NAMEERSON. HE TrfOVOHT THAT IT WAS THE NAME OF ?ITS MISSION? HE SAID WHAT IS THIS

((SAMII

NOWAMOUS PERSON. AUGHTER))

( (LAUCHINC)) NOBODY KNEW WHO HE WAS BEFORE. BUT NOW EVERYONE

KNOWS WHEN WOULD YOU LIKE HIM TO COME BACK. TOMORROWAUGHTER))

HE SAYS THAT WE HAVE AN AWFUL LOT DF WORK TO DOEW WORD))

TELL HIM THAT JUSTODEO MESSAGE FROM THEARE ALL

((HAKIM MAKES ACALL TO LONDON ASKING ABOUT DARVISH'S WHEREABOUTS- SEE PHONE TAPE TRANSCRIPT. )>

(TIME CUT FOR EATING. DISHES RATTLING. CHATTER IN BACKGROUND. I)

may

I(CONVERSATION AT THIS POINT IS TaaIKC PLACE AT SOME DISTANCE ONLY ISOLATED. DISJOINTED PHRASES CAN BE HEARD. THOSE EXCHANGES WHICH CAN BE HEARD IN ANY SORT OF COMPLETENESS ARE AS FOLLOWS: ))

III:

SECCRD:

SA-1II: CAVE:

NORTH: SECCRD:

NORTH: HAKIM:

HEIR CONTACT ISAMANI AND ?THc MINISTERr SON OF ?THE MINISTER OF DEFENSE? THOSE TWO

ET PAST-STEP FOUR. THEN HE AND I WILL TALK ABOUTWORDOOD. FIRM CASETRAILS OFF)) IN PRINCIPLE. CAN YOU TELL HIM THAT?

WHAT HE'S SAYING rISKI? TOLD HIM THAT IN ORDEREW WORDSSADDAM HUSAIN?. WE HAVE CUT OFF THE PIPELINE TO IRAQ.

((UNCLEAR. )) THAT'S US DOING THATNE WORD)) THE SAUDIS

BUT MY POINT IS THAT BEFORE WE CAN GET TOO FAR EW WORDS WE'VE COT TO HAVE OUR FEOPLE BACK.

WE'VEHOLE BUNCH OF THINGS WE HAVE TO DO BEFORE WE GET TO THAT i

((INTERPRETS)) ENTENCE UNCLEAR )) THE MATTER OF TALKINGORTION UNINTELLIGIBLE)) TALKS WITH THE SAUDIS. ORTION

HAKIM: NORTH:

HAKIM

NORTH:

E WANTS TO KNOW WHAT YOU DID.

WE'VE DONE THREE THINGS. SINCE WE STARTED TALKING. AND BEFORE. ACTUALLYIRECT RESULT OF THE DISCUSSIONS THAT WE HAVE HAD INORD UNCLEAR. ))

ORTH:

HAKIM: QRTH:

HftKIM: NTEnPRCTS. AND ADDS MOSTLY UNINTELLIGIBLE "PORTION ABOUT

NORTH; MY PROBLEM IS THAT MY BOSS. THE PRESIDENT WHO WROTE IN THAT BIBLE FOR YOUi AND POINDEXTER WHO IS MY BOSS. ARE LOSING PATIENCE. ANDM UNDER CREAT PRESSURE. AS ARE THESE GENTLEMEN. TO SHOW THAT THIS COWECTION THAT WE HAVE MADE IS GOING SOMEWHERE

A

KAMI* EFORE 1NTERPRET1 NFC.'TaAVb i'i TUILL TL;V

WHAT YOU SAID. BUT YOU SHOULD BE AWARE. ESULT OF THEIR WORK WITH US AND, YOU ALSO KNOW. THE ONLY WEAPON THAT THE IRANIANS HAVE IN THISORD UNCLEAR)) PEOPLE IN LEBANON IS THEAM KHOMEINI. IT'S THE ONLY THING THAT^THfeY LISTEN TO. SO THE IMAM KHOMEINI. ORDASECREE>CLAS3IFYINC THE HOSTACES AS PRISONERS; THEY ARE jf'AHV MORE SPIES OR THE BIG SATAN. NONE OF THIS. THEY tE-PR ISONERS. HE WAS WAITING TOOPY OF THAT rIf WITH HIM ESULT OF THIS. THE TOTAL ATMOSPHERE IN CONNECTION WITH THE HOSTACES WILLEBANON. THEV-ARE COINC TO CO WITH THIS WEAPON

IDfe AND TRY TO/SORT THINGS OUT ?IN ACCORD? WITH WHAT "COMMIT JED THEMSELVES TO US. SO I WILL CO AHEAD AND- TRANSLATE THIS.

( (END OF SIDE A. TAPEIDE B. BLANK))

HAKIM: SAMII: HAKIM:

AKIM;

VOICE IS SO FAINT IN THIS TAPE THAT IT IS COMPLETELY UNINTELLIGIBLE. ))

((INTERPRETS NORTH'S PREVIOUS STATEMENT))

El

((INTERPRETS)) HE WANTS TO START THE OFFICIAL MEETING. HE THANKS ALL OF YOU FOR YOUR EFFORTS

A

A

HERE ARE FCUR ISSUES THAT HE IS ESTABLISHING AS THE POINTS FOR DISCISSION. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO AD LIB. PLEASE FEEL FREE TO DO SO.

HAKIM

((INTERPRETS)) HE ISC THAT ALL ISSUES THAT ARE BEING DISCUSSED HEKE IN HIS PRESENCE NOT DE DISCUSSED EW WORDS MISSED)> ?INFORMAL? MEETING ?IN

HAKIM:

E WANTS TO MAKE THE OBSERVATION TAHT THE REASON WE HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL SO FAR HAS BEEN, AT LEAST AT THE LEVEL OF THIS CROUP, WE HAVE BEEN TRUTHFUL WITH EACH OTHER AND WE HAVEN'T LIED.

HAKIH:

ARC THE BIT'f* trf

((INTERPRETS)) WITH TiiE INCOMPLElE. BROKEN SYSTEM OF COLLECTING, INFORMATION THAT THEY HAVE. THEY HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSIONN YOUR GOVERNMENT ?WE? HAVE PR03LEMS AND DIFFICULTIES IN ESTABLISHING RELATIONS WITH IRAN. IF SO. HE WOULD LIKE TO FROM THE VERY EW WORDS UNCLEAR)) AS TO WHAT THEY ARE. AND WHY. AND THEN HE IN TURN WILl DO THE SAME THINC AND EXPLAIN WHA THAT IRANTRAILS OFF)).

CAVE: OH BOTH SIDES.HANIS OUR

NORTH: HY THINGS MOVE SO SLOWLY.

HE WANTS THE TRUTH FROM US. EALLYAVE: NORTUNATELY. AS IN THE HOSPITAL.

HAKIM: EALLY THINK THAT WHAT AL I IS AFTER IS TO GET HERE TODAY. WHEN I

IMS CHtWINC HIS ASS I WAS REALLY DOINGHE SAID IT

THREE TIMES THAT HE HEARD IT FROM ME. SO PLEASE EXPLAIN TO HIM THAT WHEN I WAS CHEWING HIM

NORTH: I WILL BEEXPLAIN AS TO WHY HE KEPT CALLING YOU TO GET

THINGS MOVING. AND THAT IS BECAUSE MY BOSS WAS CALLING ME TO CET

THINOSTHERE IS GREAT, GREATANT TO

TELL YOUTHAT IF WE DO NOT HAVE MOVEMENT VERY QUICKLY ON

THE STEPSPROMISED. ILL BE LOOKING FOR WORK AND WEUP STARTING ALI OVER ACAIN IN SOME OTHER WAY. AND THAT WOULD BE

A DISASTEROF US.

CAVE- NTERPRETS)i

NORTH: BECAUSE AFTEK OUR MEETINGS. WHEN YOU WChE IN WASHINGTON. AND THEN WE HAD THAT SECOND MEETING IN FRANKFURT WITH SAM! I. I WENT BACK ANDOLD THE PRESIDENT AND MCFARLANE AND POINDEXTER, "IT'S GOING TO MOVE WE ARE GOING TO CET BEYOND THE OBSTACLE AND VERY QUICKLY. WE'RE COINC TO HELP TO BRING ABOUT AN HONORABLE END TO THIS WAP; WE'RE GOING TO DO THINGS THAT WILL TAKE CARE OF PEACE IN THAT PART OF THE REGION; WE'RE GOING TOTRATEGIC RELATIONSHIP WITH IRANI AND THEN NOTHING HAPPENED.

CAVE:

NCR TH:

NO* TH

CAVE

N3RTH

CAVE:

CAVE: NORTH:

ttat 'IF NOTHING HAPPENS. YOU'LL SEF MY BODY FLOATING IN THAT WATER

WOULD BE CALLINGAKIM)). AND HIMELL'S GOING CXI'

CAVE: HAKIM BAHRAMANI: CAVE:

. IE.

E SAID THE SAME THINGEW WORDSE COT AWOKEN IN THE MIDDLE OF THEORTION UNCLEAR))

HE SAID THEYIRELESS RADIO, IN HIS HOUSE SO THAT THEY COULD BE IN CONTACT ALL THE TIME... EW WORDS))ALWAYS CALLING UP ANO SAYING, 'WHAT HAPPENED. WHERE'S THE STUFF?"

HAKIM: NTLRPRETS)) THE THIRD POINT IS THAT HE WANTS TO CLARIFY HIS

POSITION IN THIS WHOLE THING AND EXPLAIN TO YOU WHAT HIS ROLE IS AND THE ROLE THAT HE HAS BEEN ASKED TO PLAY. AND HE WANTS TO EXPLAIN WHETHER HE IS THE HEAD of THE_TEAf1, THE DEPUTY. OR WHAT.

BAHRAMANI: HAKIM

((INTERPRETS)) EW WORDS UNCLEAR)) HE WANTS TOEWIS OWN ANALYSIS, AND HE WANTS TO HEAR OUR ANALYSIS. OF COURSE. HE IS OF THE OPINION THAT THEY DO NOT HAVE CONTROL OF THEfcW WORDS MISSED)).

HAKIM: NTERPRETS)) HE WOULD LIKE TO START FEW Wo/dS^LWCLEAR) )

"A

NORTH: WELL, LET ME JUST MAKE SURE THAT AVE AN UNDERSTANDING of THE FIRST POINT. AND THAT IS, YOUR CONCERN IS THAT, THERE ARE PEOPLE WITHIN OUR GOVERNMENT WHO DO NOT WISH TOLOSER". RELATIONSHIP WITH IRAN. IS THAT RIGHT?

HAKIM: AHRAMANI:

HAKIM: NTERPRETS) ) HE WANTS YOU TO BRIEFLY EXPLAIN TO HIM WHO ARE THE

PEOPLE SUPPORTING THIS PROGRAM, THIS PROJECT. WHO ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT SUPPORTING THIS PROGRAM. AND WHAT'S THEIR POSITION. AND UNO

NORTH:

WE WOULDN'T BE HERE IF OUR CROUP WASN'T STRONGER.NDERSTAND THE CONTEXT.

HE^WANTS ;TQ DO THE SAME FOR US.

HAKIM:

C^BNMENT;'. BECAUSE WE HAVE OPPOSITION, BOTH INSIDE THE ACM IN1STR AT IEXECUTIVETHERE WOULD BE MUCH, MUCH MORE "IF CERTAIN-MEMBERS OF CONGRESS.ELL. LET ME START OVER. THE PRINCIPAL OBJECTIONS OF ANYBODY WHO WOULD OPPOSE THIS ARE BASED ONLY ON THE HOSTACES. THE OBJECTIONS ARE BASED ONLY ON THE FACT THAT PEOPLEvlN OUR GOVERNMENTVE THAT IRANOLE HOSTAC

THAT OBSTACLE WERE OUT OF THE WAY. OBJECTION.

WOULDN'T BE ANY

NTERPRETS))

NORTH: SO THOSE PEOPLE WHOI CAN TELL YOU WHO THEY ARE. AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT ONLY CN THE BASIS OF THE HOSTACES. THEY DO NOT OBJECT TO THE STRATEGIC RELATIONSHIP THAT WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT.

HAKIM: NTERPRETS))

THERE IS AN ACCEPTANCE I SAID THE STATEMENT.

REVOLUTION OF IRANACT. Wc ACCEPT IT.

ACCEPT THE ISLAMIC

CAVE:

(INTERPRETS))

((SAYS IN PERSIAN THAT THERE ARE $ENIOR STATE DEPARTMENT PEOPLE WHO FEFl THAT IRAN SUPPORTSfj. ))

AND HAKIM EXPLAIN THAT WHEN OTHER COUNTKlES TALK WITH. STATE

DEPARTMENT ABOUT TERRORISM. THEY PUT THE BLAME ON IRAN CAVE CITES AN EXAMPLE FROM THAT DAY'S PRESS

((SEVCRAl PEOPLE TALK INC AT ONCE. >)

BAHRAilANI:

((INTERPRETS)) HE SAYSOT OF THEIR PROBLEM IS THAT BECAUSE FROM THE STANDPOINT OF PROPAGANDA. EW WORDS UNCLEAR!) IS VERY WEAK. FOR INSTANCE. EW WORDS UNCLEAR)) THIS WAS DONE. NOT ONLY WITHOUT THE KNOWLEDGE, BUT WITHOUT THE SPECIFIC PERMISSION OF THE GOVERNMENT, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ARRESTED BECAUSE OF; THIS

NORTH:

BUT SEi-. THE BASIC PROBLEM OF ALL OF THIS IS THE PERCEPTION. NOT JUST IN BUT ELSEWHERE. THAT THERE OTTHAT ORIGINATES WITHIN IRAN. WITHIN THC-.EASJjARAN AND

hakim: NTERPRETS))

NORTH; ALI OF THAT HASREAT DEAL Or MISTRUSTOR SEVEN YEARS

: NTERPRETS) )

BAHRAIWJI:

HAKIM- C< INTERPRETS)) HE HAS HEARD ONLY TWO NAMES FROM YOU SO FAR. HE

WAN1S ET-TO KNO" UHO IS SUPPORTINC THIS ACTIVITY AND WHO IS MJT. SO FAJTHE'hAS HEARD ONLY TWO NAMES FROM YOU-POINDEXTER AND THEND THEIR EVALUATION OF EMAINDER MISSED) )

PRESIDENT SO HE WANTS TO KNOW WHO

y [ : .njiNDEXTER HAS AUTHORITY TO DO MANY THINGS IF HE WAS

k7"hE WOULO^rOT BE ALLOWED TO DO THESE THINGS. HE WOULD NOT HAVEn. HE ISREAT DEAL BY THEE "nEplA'RITICS, EVEN WITHIN THE ADMINISTRATION BUIMAN OR WE WOULDN'T BE HERE.

HAKIM: NTERPRETS))

BAHRAilANI:

HAKIM: NTERPRETS)) WHO ARE THE OTHER EXCEPT POINDEXTER?

NORTH- THE PRESIDENT. THE VICE PRESIDENT. THE NATIONAL SECURITY

HAKIM: MO BUT. THE LAST TIME WEIFFERENT STORY.

NORTH" NO THE PROBLEM IS. YOU WOULD PROBABLY PUT. IF YOU HAD TO DRAWIST. YOU'LD PUT FOR/AGAINST. OKAY? BUI THAT'S TOO SIMPLE. IT'S TOO BLACK AND WHITE. ON THE FOR SIDE YOU WOULD HAVE REAGAN, REGAN. POINDEXTER, CASEY. AND OVER HERE YOU WOULD PUT SHULTZ AND WEINBERGER. AND AFTER THAT. NOBODY ELSE COUNTS.

HAKIM:

NORTH: BUT RICHT NOW. NOBODY IN OUR CONCRESS EVEN KNOWS ABOUT IT. AND WE'RE NOT COINS TO TELL THEM UNTIL WE CET THE HOSTACES OUT.

HAKIM. UST EXPLAIN TO HIM THAT IT IS WITHIN THE POWER OFTO DO WHAT HE IS

NORTH- THE PRESIDENT.

HAKIM: NTERPRETS))

CENTLFMEN AT THIS POINT.AKE THIS THING'.VERY. VERY

PERSONALLY. PLEASE TEILWHAT YCMl^POSjf ION IS. EW WORDS UNCLEAR. ))

CAVE: KIN PErfSIAN) ) AT THIS TIME NONE OF THE MEM3ERS OF(FEW WORDS UNCLEAR. ))

If

HAKIM: AND TlttN PLEASE WRITE THIS QUESTION OUT. HE ISTHE

FACT? THAT I AM AN EX-IRANIAN, HE ALWAYS MAY 3E

CAVE: N PERSIAN ASSURES THE PERSIANS AS TO THE ACCURACY OF. HAKIM'S

FOOLING AROUND WITH THE TRANSLATION. SO PLEASE, HASANDICAP FOR ME THROUGHOUT THE PAST SEVERAL WEEKS

NORTH;

?

NTERPRETS) > HE SAYS THAT THEY HAVE INFORMATION BACK HOME THAT SHULTZ AND WEINBERGER ARE TAKING SThPS IN DIFFERENT CHANNELS. INDEPENDENTLY. TOELATIONSHIP WITH IRAN.

CAVE: CAVE:

WEIL. IT IS TRUE M AWARE OF THEM. WE ARE ALL AWARE OF THEM. ONE OF THE PROBLEMS THAT WE'VE OOTIS THE CREDIBILITY OF THIS CHANNEL EAL SERIOUS PROBLFM.

AKIM HELPS

<<IN PERSIAN)) AND YOU MUST HAVE THE SAMF PROBLEM IN IRAN.

OR NOT?

CAVE;

HE WANTS TO KNOW IF SHULTZ ORTION UNCLEAR))

NORTH: OH. YEAH. VERYILLRIGHT NOW. IF YOU RECALL THE PLAN THAT WE PUT INTO MOT ION "AFTER OUR LAST MEETING, IF THAT DOES NOT PROCEED AS LE ALL AGREED. M FINISHED. AND SHULTZ WILL-^

FIND SOME OTHERND HE HAS HIS PEOPLE IN TOUCH WITH

MORE f

AND HE WILL PROCEED IN THAT DIRECTION. AND THERE WILL BEI

CAVE: NTERPRETS))

SECCRD: I DO NOT SEE EITHER SHULTZ OR WEINBERGER IN DIRECT OPPOSITION.

BECAUSE THE PRESIDENT HAS ALREADYULING. AND SO IN OUR SYSTEM, WHEN THE PRESIDENT HAS RULED, THAT'S IT. "NOW. HOWEVER. IF WE FAIL, THE WHOLE ISSUE WILL OPEN UPEW WORDS MISSED)

.

NORTH: THEY OBJECTS'*. BUT THEY WENT ALONG, IS THE WAY TO PUT IT,

:%

CAVE:

WORTH: I HAVE BEFN GIVEN UNTIL SUNDAY TO PROVE THAT THISIVE

SECCRD: STEP FOUR WAS TRIGGERED THIS MORNING. SO SATURDAY ISHAKIM: NTERPRETS))

IXIH:

WE:jR TH:

INNO IF THEY ARE NOT SUCCESSFUL. THEY "AVE THIS CHANNEL; THEY HILL PURSUE MWCRD MISSED) )

EPORT BY SUNDAY. ADAffXWyTHIS ROUTE.

'lIKE TO ADO SOMEO. SINCEEU WORDS MIR'* SEVERAL MONTHS. WE KNOW THAT IF UE DO NOT COMPLETE THIS. ALLFEW WORDS MISSED)).

((IN ENGLISH)) I TOLD THEM THATFEW WORDS MISSED) ) IF Wc ARE NOT SUCCESSFUL- AND THIS CHANNEL IS FEW WOPISSED)). THEN ALL THIS WORK WE'VE

IT WILL

((INTERPRETS INE JMS' EXPLAINING THAT IF WE ARE NOT SUCCESSFUL. NOT ONLY WILL THir.CiTOVP'S WORK CCME TO AN ENDEW WOflDS MISSED)). BUTHE FUTURE WHICH WANT TO MAKE

CONTACT WILL USE THIS A3 ANT!UT IHA-MANS ?ARE NOT

RELIABLE?. THIS WILL DE STUDIED. !

3>

-VE

CCRO-

HAkIM;

CCIK PERSIAN -UNINTELLIGIBLE

WHAT NO-.TH ETTING AT IS WEARS GOING DOWN IN THE STEPSTHE NINE POINTS. WE'RE CO1K0 TO VERY QUICKLY... WE EXPECT THEM TOVERY QUICKLY SO THAT WE CAN MOVE TO THE NEXT STEP. AND THE NEXT STEP.iD THE NEXT STEP AND THBaTS U'O'J'T BEOfIT!GN.

Wit

3 PC* FOUR.

AT THS WHITEIN THHE VGA BP! MIS WE CAVE- HE TRANSLATE)

*

YEARS- FOR SINCE I HAVEOFFICE HE

FARSI. WHICH YOU ASKED FOR ^

Y ENGLISH TO FARE I.

SECORD:

< (ihter'pretT

ordaid that.

NORTH AND .LUCKY. THEV UON'T SHOOT US. JAIL.

-ISH)>

HAKIM: NORTH: CAVE:

CAVE: NORTH:

NORTH.

HE WANTS TO EXPLAIN HIS CASE.

BAHRAMANI:

POSITION THAT PEOPLE BACK TIMES HE TALKS ABOUT THINGS ABOUT. THEREFORE. IT IS HE TELLS US SUDULD NOT GET AND GET BACK TO 7them? BEC

AND GET BACA iu

fHlS CROUP. ESPECIALLY ,ERY TRUTHFUL WITH HIM. THAT SOMETHING GOOD -REFORE. PLEASE.

MISERABLE FOR HIM AND DIFFICULT FOR HIM. HE HAS NO FINANCIALEW WC3D5NE OBJECTIVE IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THISIS GOING TOFEW WORDS MISSED)). HE HAS FULL W GENERAL SECOFD. HE HAS VERY HELPFUL. AND HE WANTS IS COIN? TO CfME CUT OF-

WHATEVER HE DISCUSSES SHOULD NOT LEAVE THIS ROOM SO HE WILL FEEL COMFORTABLE TO BE ABLE TO GET BACK TO us

('TRAILS DISCUSSED THATTHIS WEEl

( (FEU WORDS MISSED) ).

ajm:

HE SAYS YOU HAVE

EW WORDS AND ONCE

THE COUNTRY IS MANAGED by SHAREHOLCIINVOLVED. YOU PUT KHOMEINI ASIDE* THERErftoaR^

AWO HAKIM:

' INTERPRETS! ) RE

COMPANY. they ARE MINOR thei" APE kwofdWITHINhen thin THERE'SEWot CKLVALSO the CtUNECTlON

miccsciscussiCNat us r

*kim-

HEAFSANJANt)) IS CONSIDERED BASICALLY BECAUSE OF THESE

AHRAMANI:

JN PUBLIC OPINION

THE SECOND-MAN. SECOND INWORD MISSED)).

IHRAMANI:

WHEN MR. KANGARLU RAISEO THE ISSUE OF ESTABLISHING

RELATIONS WITH. HE WAS IN FAVOR OF IT, BUT FOR HISHE DECIDED TO GET ALL THE GROUPS INVOLVED AND CIVEROLE TO

A MINUTE. WHO'S *HE?

AHRAMANI:

HE WANTS YOU TO know WHO KANGARLU IS. KANGARLU

WORKS FORI. THE PRIME mi MISTER. MUSAVI BELONGS TO THE RADICALTHE RADICAL CROUP "HAT THEY WERE THE UNIVERSITY STUDENTS WHO TOOK THE HOSTACES^Iri IRAN. THAT'S THAT CROUP.

AHRAMANI AND HAKIM:

WHEN KANGARLU CONTACTED MR. HASHEMI IN THIS

A=FROACH TOELATIONSHIP WITH HE, HASHEMI. ASKED FOR REPRESENTATIVES OF THE THREE GROUPS TO BE PRESENT AND PARTICIPATE IN THIS ACTION, ANDWO WORDSUPPORT. IN OTHER WORDS THIS IDEA OF HAVING ALL GROUPS PARTICIPATE IN THIS IS NOT NEW. IT DATEDONG TIME AGO. AND STILL HE'S GOING TO EXPLAIN flCHE AND STILL STICKING TO IT.

HIS ISSUE AS YGU CAN VERY NELL UNDERSTAND IS VERY SENSITIVE, YET HASHEMI DISCUSSED IT IN CABINET. IN PARLIAMENT. AND THE SON OrDISCUSSED IT WITH 'KHOMEINI

GOT HIS APPROVAL. THESE THINOS. 3'JT HE

KHOMEINI DCFR^'J firT TNVniVFP APPRISEO AMD APPROVES.

IT'S VERY DirFTCULT TO MAW ACE.

HRAMANI

LIKE'HOME.

((INTERPRETS IN PERSIAN. LAUGHTER. )>

T^^FERENCE^tT^ IF THIS ONE FAILS.ETNTERPRETS IN PERSIAN))

he DOESN'T WANT TO GET INTO DISCUSSING THIS. BUT ALL ThSe EFFORTS LED TO THE VISIT OF MCFARLANE. WHICH WAS CONsIdIrED^TAL FAILURE. AND THE REASONCAN ANALYZE ITWORDS MISSED)) YOU CANEW WORDS AND THEIR ANALYSIS SHOWS OPPOSITION IN THE U. STHE ee ISSUES CAUSED ?IT TO FAIL?-

ANCARLU HAD TOLD HIM THAT THELIS ARE PARTICIPATING AND HE SAID THAT.HE DIDN'T KNOW FROM THE BEGINNING AND JUST FOUND OUT. ANDA LOT OF .

OMBINATION OF MANY THINGS THAT CAUSEDEW WORDS MISSED)). SKED HIM HOW DID YOU KNOW ABOUT THE ISRAELIS? MR. KANGARLU BROUGHT

BUT KANGARLU OILY RECENTLY BROUGHT IT

NTERPRETS FOR BAHRAMANI))

((INTERPRETS)) AFTER THf. CAT WAS OUT OF THE dag. I JUST FOUND THAT HE WASTO?EW WORDS MISSED)) I JUST FOUND OUT EW WORDS MISSED)).

AKIM:

AHRAMANI

win:

;rm.

ANGARLU IS PORTRAYING THATELLOT OF ir-LUS.VCS WITH USHE AMERICANS)AND STILL ka-JGAPLU ISOR C'OftSAKIFAR, SAVIN* THAT WE SHOULD KEEP GHOREANIFA^HIS BECAUSE HE ECURITY VALVE FOR US IF SOMETHING G'-'O.LD CO WfiCNG WITH THIS CHANNEL GHGRSAr.'IFAS CW AUC HE CAN FIX THINGS.

((INTERPRETS"; he EayS SINCERELY KANCARLU.BELIEVESHIS HONEST OPTNICH IT'SIASEDGHORBANIFAR CAN DO. UNOFFICIALLY. THINGS THAT HE CANNOT DO OFFICIALLY.

(HAKIM SAYSF THE IRANIANS IE CCLD LCCR HUT,- WINDOW

( interprets) ) he has told- kangarlu thatou are wrong- ' and

he goes and sees thee goes with your name andhimself has no strengthut ohorbanifarot of influence

has no influence with americans. ean we're the americans to '

k talked to.

)

3ahramani:

<'he is using chorbanifar as the 7quality? person.

<(few words hissed) ) the fact that chorbanifar was the one who planned the assassination of general oveysi.

north:

hakim:

HE FORMER COMMAr.'DER OF THE GROUND FORCES, hrtrt.

also promised the iranians that

would cause the french POLiCE'not to make one move. and indeed they did not make one move

0ahsamani S, HAKIM:

kangarlu shows thisoint of strength of ckcr 3AN iFAH in the western world. he planned the assassination.

KE kept THE french police out. and they were therefew words

MISSED)

(interprets)) he says that he has so convincing that he started

to 3elieve HIrt. that he really isowerful man.

regard his power to be purely negative.

in this particular relationship between thehenothing to help it

sut KE HAS tke POWER to do much DAMAGE to it because of his KfiCWLEyGE.

((interprets))

S_ .

VE ALRi'-dy SEEN evidence cf THAT. AND that^heCHOkEANIFAR believes he has not EEEN paid the full amount by iran ano he is THREATENING TQ make pu3lic THEOJucirTtr,^

= CRTICll OFIfiN UNINTELLIGIBLE.ahk-MAMi

HAKIM:

7CAVC?

NORTH:

HAKIM;

NORTH:OPTH: HAH:

OECORD:; SECCRD: HAXII1;

f.'C-TH: ?EE0ORD?

-vAXIM:M

( INTERPRETS)) I HAVE NOT FORGOTTEN THE STATEMENT VOU MADE. BUTTHIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. MR. HASHEllI-RAFSANJANI HAS PROPOSED AND THEY BELIEVE THIS OOD THING TOO AND THATPORTION UNINTELLIGIBLE) )OUPLE OF MONTHS AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. THE REASON THEY HAVE NOT DONE THIS THING IS BASED ON WHAT HEHAT HE HASWORDS MISSED)EW WORDS MISSED) ) UN1VERISITY PROFESSOR AND SO FORTH. THAT WE

ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THIS HE SAYS THEY ARE OF THE OPINION.

WHETHERNE WORD MISSED)) OR NOT. HE IS GOING TO DO IT

ANYWAY.

IF THEY--COULD BRING HIMOUPLE OF MONTHS. IT WOULD BE CCOD.

HE HAS ALREADY CIVEN THE INFORMATION TO ANOTHER MAN IN. IF

HE'S NOT TALKING ABOUT OISAPPEARINC

HE'S GOING TO BE WORKING. HE'S GOINC TO BE KEPT THERE AND THEN HE'S GOING TO OE WORKINGNE WORDE'S GOING TO BE CALLING. TALKING. DOING THE WHOLE THING

THAT'S FINE AND IF CHOPDA... :

THEY'RE NOTLKINC ABOUT. .

NJURING HIM.

YEAH

WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT IS THE PERCEPTION. RIGHT OR WRONG. THAT CHORDA OWES SEVERAL OTHER PEOPLE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. THAT'S WHY THEY'RE GOING TO TALK. IF IS SEEN BY THEM TO HAVE DISAPPEARED. WE *RS LIABLE TO HAVE AN EVEN BIGCEP PROBLEM. .

WHY DON'T THEY PAY THEIR DILL?

I KNOW.

DO YOU WANT ME TO ASK HIM. OP DO YOU WANT ME TO TELL YOU. CAN WE ASK HIM WHY THEY ISN'T PAY THE DILL?

YES I TOHfl| *r t kE "ell HIM WHAT HE SAID ANOEW WORDS MISSED. MCORFGCT. FEW WORDS)) OWE HIM ILLION DOLLARS.

OUT IT IS "

HCRBA'S GOT KQRE CREDIBILITY THAN HE EVER DESERVED.

1

oc

Q FRCF TOW,

NO. HE SAYS

NO. IT'='ZTO DELIVER FREENOT ALL "HAT

AY? HE LIED GENTLEMEN. S TRANSLATE. WHAT THE HELL DOES HE SAY? he IS SAVIrv: THAT HA5

angarlu. after he learned what the 'real price"is,

auk spare parts. which they hao chargedillion

formillion) ). they charged the iranians eicht.

BRfl

. no. NpJTjSNpJ this is the second example.

MILLION.

not the first shipment. he had told them it was Ton'jBtJIen'when we cot thehen we gave them the billewhorbanifar had already told

((INTERPRETS IN PERSIAN FOR BAHRAMANI. THENAVE TCLDOUR OPINION IS. AND WE HAVE DISCUSSED IT IN THEHATbe PAID

THING RIGHT

THEM IT WOULD COST THEM SO. USINESSMAN.

HE SHOULD be PAID ATO KEEP HIM OUIET.

WELL. QUITE FRANKLY. I DON'THIT IF HE GETS PAID. WHAT I'M MORE INTERESTED IN IS THAT THE PEOPLE TO WHOM HE OWES MONEY CET

PAID.

DO WEHOU MUCH THAT ELL. I THINK WE DO KNOW. HOU MUCH IS THAT?

IT'S ABOUT.ELL. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT HE OWES. BUT FOR THE LASTOR THE SHIPMENT OF THE ORIGINAL PARTS. HE OWES THEM IO HILL ION.

THAT'S ALLHE IRANIANS)) OWE HIM. THAT'S ALL. THE MONEY THEY OWE CHCnCANIFAR. TEN MILLION. I HAVE HEARD

SEE. THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE BECAUSE CKORSANIFAR. went OUT AND BORROWEDILLION DOLLARS. HE PAFF THE one fWr-faAMD HE STILL OWES THE CANADIANSAND .THAT WOULD

MAKE v x

(TS> )

ARE YOU SAVIN-.', THEY SHOULD PAY US AND WE PAY THE BANK?

I DON'T WANT TO GET IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS." tTFEW WORDS)HEY DIRECTLY GET TCLD? ROY TO SHOW UP SOrSEKMcRE. OUT OF IT.

EW DAYS ACO, BASED ON

PROMISED THEM THAT HE WOULD APPROACH THIS AYLE IT VERY CORRECTLY. AND THEY HAD DECIDED IS AWAY. SECRET FROM MOST OF THE PEOPLE. AND HEUMBER OF THE PEOPLE. BUT HE DOESN'T BELIEVE IT'S TIME FOR HIM TO RELEASE THEIR NAMES. AND BROUGHT IT TO .THATSTTORDSND ONLY TWO DAYS AGO THAT THE IRAN HAS REACHED THE STAGE THAT WE SHOULD >LE AS WELL.

K.IM: NTERPRETS)) IT COT TO THE POINT THAT IT UAS DIFFICULT TO KEEP IT SECRET BECAUSE. FOR INSTANCE. THE HEAD OF THE CENTRAL BANK--WHORIEND OF WSAVTHAVE FOUND OUT ABOUT THEIR TRYING TO CET ILLIOrt COLLARS OUTEW WORDS MISSED)). THEY HAVEILLION OUT SO FAR. ND 7EW WORDS MISSED)). THEY COULD HOT HAVE KEPTECRET. SO THEY.DECIDED TO BRING EVERYBODY ELSE IN.

HRAMANI:

KIM: NTERPRETS)) HIS'SIS GOING TO BE GIVEN TO THE DIFFERENT CROUPS. THEY HAVE GIVEN AYUB'S NAME TO THE DIFFERENT CROUPS THAT HE HASORDS) ) AND THE REASON IS TO ENABLE HIM TO GO FROM ONETO THE OTHER AND BE INVOLVED IN THE KIND OF WORK THAT HE CAN DO. NOW. WITH WHAT.jH.A5 HAPPENED. WITH THE TOWS COMING OUT. THEY ARE GOING TO. BY THE WAY, HOUSAND EACH.

%TH: INUTE. I'M CONFUSED. WITH THE TOWS COMINGift IRAN. WHICH ARE THERE NOW. "TH: THIS

-KIM: MILITARY INTELLIGENCE THAT THEY GOT. AND THAT IN

ITSELF EVOLUTIONARY ACTION AND EVERYBODY'S GOING-TO CO CRAZY AND SERSERK OVEF. THIS- BECAUSE IT IS SUCH AN IMPORTANX.EVENT IN THIS TYPE OF PICTURE

:CRD: 3UT WHAT'S THE FOINT?

IM: I STOPPED. >C'J KNOW. M TRYING TO TRANSLATE.

SAM AN I:

IM- NTERPRETS! ): Ha XPLAINING WHY THE ARRIVAL OFVTHETHE MILITARY INFORMATION IS COMPLETELY BACKED UP--FIRST: ONE: KANGARLU AND HIS GROUPGOING TO BE TOTALLY ELIMINATED-

RAMANI:

AHRAMANI;

AXIH:

BACK TO THE DISCUSSION THAT

ag^ AT THE BEGINNING. HE CAN TAKEEAPWiVATION BEHIND OUR APPROACHING THEM ANDpOU^raO DIFFERENT THOUGHTS YOU PEOPLE HAVE. THINGS TMATCBS WORDS MISSING) ) OUICKLV. THAT IS. HE COULD GO AND SAY THAT. REALLY. THE MAIN THING THAT HE ARE AFTER IS THE ISSUE OF THE HOSTACES. HEV LL GET THINGS COINC. AT THIS MINUTE. THEY ARE CONFUTED THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT WE WANT, ANO THEY BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE FOUR OR FIVE OTHER CHANNELS. AND THIS IS ONE OF THEM. AND THERECHEME, BUT THEY ARE NOT QUITE SURE WHAT IS HAPPENING.

4KW: NTERPRETS)): HE'SBACK TOT HIGHLY RADICAL IS MOnTAZERI

AHRAMANI:

his CiCUP.

LMB&

main discussion. the

in reference to his.

Will:

.orth:

((INTERPRETS)): what ALI HINKNDERSTAND what he's DOING. to explain what hasince he LEFT us' there ARE HA&lJjJfFEREHT people. they are doing many DIFFERENT things. AND he's come DOWN... he'6 coming to the heart of it now... he was CONCERNED that the highly radical people. ie . montazeri 's croup. NCIDENTAL DISCUSSION)) he had the fear (that) y get tc some PLACE SOLID- AND if the RADICALS. MCNTAZERl's croup. would FIND OUT. he COULD not predict what would happen THEN he PERSIANS APPARENTLY LEAVE the room at this time))

BUTITTLE while AGO he SAID that his UNCLE drought everybody

in. hat'slan' way back whenwas here..

-kim

yes. but they. they brought him in. they told him doing. but they never told him how they're doingal move.

;-rth buton't understand

((invs.-ruptsh. can we at one pointittleget

A<i *r -

v

((tim-: out FCfi chatter about rooms, hone call. etc. ))

detect that hee's trying.onlyt'sfinish))

((time out for another__phcne call )!

INTERPRETS) ): HE'S TRYING TO GIVE YOU VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION

as TO HOW THEY CAME TO LEARN that MONTAZERI KNEW WHY they were TRYING to KEEP HIM OUT. HE knew THAT. and he ALSO IN THIS EXPLANATION IS COINC to TELL YCU ABOUT THE REST ofew words)). after it BECAME KNOWN IN SAUDI (ARABIA) ABOUT THE EXPLOSIVES. THEY STARTED to INVESTIGATE to EEE HOW AND whoj>lq_it.

JAHRAMANI:

(AKIM; NTERPRETS)): THEIR INVESTIGATION" SHOWED THAT SEYYED MEHDI HASHEMI WAS BEHIND THIS. AND HE belcnged*to THE LIBERATION GROUP.

SECCRD: THE TERRORIST CROUP.

iAKIM: RIGHT. THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE. MEHDIIN THE REVOLUTIONARY CUARD. HEAD of THE LIBERATION CROUP. I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT qst^

ECORD: HE WAS IN

AVE; HE WAS. HE WAS THE HEAD GF THE LIBERATION FRONT. REMEMSER THE PASDARAN ALSOIBERATION GROUP THAT WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR EXTERNAL CFERATIGNS,

SECCRD: BUT HE'S NO LONGER IN THE PASDARAN?

HE WAS NO LONGER ..

"AVE: AT IS SEYYED MEHDI HASHEMI's JOB AHRAMANI:

EARSHEY DISMISSED HIM

ave: ! still rema'ms' KNOwTwOFFICIALLY. AS "far

IS CONCERNED. THE HEAD of IT.

AHRAMANI:

akim-

.iAKRRIUHOM THEY RELEASED. TH: WHY WAS HE ARRESTED? IH: AMAN I: fM^

IM: frERPRETS)) WHEN THEY WENT TORREST HIM. SA'ID

WAS*ALSO THERE AND THEY ARRESTED HIM ASIS ABOUT HIS

ACE AND LOCKS VERY "MUCH LIKE HIM. HE LOSTHIS EYES IN THE WAR.

ORD: SO ITxU^^STA^/

IM: YEAH. IT WASISTAKE* THEY RELEASED HIM.

RAMANI:

MAM KHOMEINI WAS ALWAYS CONCERNED ABOUTGETTING INVOLVED IN THE FOREIGN ACTIVITIES. BUTNOT PROVE IT UNTIL THIS CAME

RAMAN I:

IK: NTERPRETS)) WITHOUTTHE INFORMATION WITH THE

MINISTRY CF FOREIGN AFFAIRS. HE HADELEGATION TO AFGHANISTAN.

H AN I:

IM: NTERPRETS)) HE LAN OF COUP D'ETAT IN BAHRAIN.

ord: IS HE TfcE CNE who TRIED ITORD MISSED)) THREE YEARS AGO?

IK: (( '

tAHANI:

IM: NTERPRETS)) ITEW YEARS AGO AND HE STILL WAS FOLLOWING

IT.

IS HE THETRIED THE COUP IN BAHRAIN. YEAH.

I; AND THEN IT FAILED ANO HE WAS THROWN IT.

7 am am I:

IAHANX:

[Hi NTERPRETS) ) AND KONTAZERI ALWAYS DENIED

He. SAID THIS GUY WAS SITTING AT HIS HOME DOING

IM: NTERPRETS)) HE'S VERY CLOSE TOORD MISSED))

HRAMANI:

(AKIM:

CHECK TO SEE

THEY HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT.

i'*LOT FEW WORDS

AKIM:

NTERPRETS) ) HERE HE WANTS ME TOEW WORDS MISSED)LAUGHS AND SAYS. 'YOU'RE GOING TO LOVE THISETRUE THAT HE IS ARRESTED. BUT THIS ISONSEQUENCE. OF YOUR DISCUSSIONS WITH MR. MCFARLANE THAT YOU HAVEARREST

ECORD: ON'T UNDERSTAND THAT.

man

AKIM: HE'S IMPLYING WHEN MONTAIERI WAS INFORMED THAT SEYYED MEHDI HASHEMI WAS ARRESTED AND THEY EX PLAINED-TO. piM WHY HE WAS ARRESTED. ME SAID. *VES. NOW YOU ARRESTED HIM. IUT-/HE REASON THAT YOU'VE ARRESTED HIM WAS THE RESULT OF YOUR MEETING v'lTH MR. MCFARLANE. THAT'S WHY

"i

LET'S GET TO* THE BOTTOM CF IT.

OR TH: HE BELIEVES THAT? MONTAZERI BELIEVES THAT? AKIM: THIS IS WHAT HE SAYS

AHRAMANI:

IS AFSANJAHI? WHO WAS HE TALKING TO?

AHRAMANI:

IM

((INTERPRETS) ) HE PUT THATETTER TO IMAM KHOMEINI. SAID)) 'I MUST UNDERSTAND WHO CAVE THE PERMISSION TOMEETING WITH KT1. MCFARLANE. ' AND THISS STAGSTJ INWAV THAT THE POINT OF THE CUN WAS STUCK ATi FEW). AND THE REASCN THE GUN WAS POINTED AT HIM ,WA$ NAJAFI WAS KNOWN TO Sc THE VERY STRONG ENEMY OF EEYYED CCNTINUS5 QUOTING MONTAZERI 'S I MUST INFORM YOU THAT YOU HAD THIS MEETING

^CORD:

MR MCFARLANE WITHOUT THE PERMISSION OFmin OTHER THINGS YOU CUTS HAVE AGREED ON

frEDTHE GUN AT NAJAFI. HE SAYS

INUTE.

AUTHORITY?'

AKIM- HO. HE'S SAY INS

IT'S AN IMAGINARY

UNDERSTAND HOW DR. NAJAFI*CETS

HE- IXSSN'J'fxNOW.HCWLET ME EXPLAIN ^I'yOuWORDS'Stl

ECCRD: HE

sue

"THE IRANIARWAY. SPECIFICALLY. YOU IMPLY, AND YOU ADDRESS ONE TAIt^tREXJN^ANO^ YOU, YOU KNOW, IT'

L EXCHANGES INAUDIBLE. ))

S LETTER WRITTEN?

*'I DON'T 'uN

AXIM: FTER*CONFERRINC WITH SAYYED MEHDI HAS ARRESTEDAYS ACQ. NINE DAYS AGO.

A*

IH: MMEDIATELY THIS ISSUE HAS DISCUSSED IN PARLIAMENT, IN THE UNIVERSITIES. AND IN THE MEETINCS OF THE SCHOLARS. J

AHRAMANI:

AXIM: NTERPRETING)): SOME PEOPLEKWJWORDSAJAFI'S REAL NAME IS DR. HADI, AND AT ONE OFEETTHIS FELLOW MNfflE MISSED) ) ASKED HIM. 'HEY. DR. NAJAFI. WHAT REALLY HAPPENED WITH MR. EW WORDS MISSED)) SECRET PLANE-

2RTH: HOW DID THEY KNOW THAT?

SAID THAT HE HAD A

3RTH:

i.KIM:

AKIM: FTER CONFERRING WITH BAHRAMANI SPY IN THAT MEETING.

WHO?AUGHTER)) HEOOD STORY.

ALl SAYS IF YOU WANT TO HEAR THE REST OF THE STORY, YOU'LL HAVE TO GIVEORE TOWS. MORE

*-TH: TORY TELLER. WHERE'S THE PHONE">ECCRD: TELL HIM I HAVE THE POLICE RICHT OUTSIDE. -HRAMANI:

TO TEHRAN

IM

NTERPRETING' >: SIX NIGHTS AGO, KHOMEINI CALLED FROM GOM. EW WORDS)) HONTAZERI.

KIT

-HRAMANI:

NTERPRETING) ): WHEN HE WAS CALLED TO THIS MEETING MI

THEY DIE-CUSSED VARIOUS ISSUES, EVEN HIS UNCLE. NR. /HASHEMI WAS AND

HE TCLD ME ALL THE

RTH

cLLS EVE.7YBCD

TALKED ABOUT BAYYED HEHDI HASHEMI AND HIS PARTICIPATION IN FOREIGN ACTIVITIES WITHOUT AUTHORIZATIONORD MIND ALL THAT. AND THEY COT TO DISCUSS THE ISSUE OF THE AMERICAN. AND MR. HASHEMI BRIEFED MONTAZESI ABOUT WHAT WAS HAPPENING AND HE SAID. 'OH. MR. HOR 3ANI FAR IS AWORDS MtS^rni * ERSONAL ESIENC

anaER!

jRTH: YEAH. AND THE ISRAELIS. FEW jEXCHANCES MISBJNC) ).

THAT GUY IS ARRANGING EVERYTHING.

INTERPRETING) >: HE SAID THEY HAD STARTED TO SUSPECTAHRAMANI)ECAUSE HE SAID. ABOUT NAJAFI. HE SAID HE HAD LEARNED ALL THESE THINGS FROM THE AMERICANS. SO IT WAS POSSIBLE THAT HE TOLD MONTAZERI. HE WAbCthLsPY. jWB'JWHEN IT BECAME KNOWN.

AHRAMANI:

INTERPRETING) >: WHEN THIS BECAME KNOWN. THAT'S WHY THEY ARE REALLY ANXIOUS TO ER INC OHORBA BACK AND KEEP HIMOUPLE OF MONTHS. I EEL INC THAT WHEN THEYOUPLE OF MONTHS. IT'S GOING TOONG. LGNC COUPLE MONTHS.

QNTHE YEAH. BUT HE'LL NEVER CO. HE WON'T CO. HOW WOULD THEY CET HIM*

AFTER ASKINC KANCARCuTSftN DO IT. KANGARLU CAN BRING HIM.

AHRAMANI:

NTERPRETING) ): SOMETHING VERY INTERESTING WHICH DURING THE MINISTER OF (FEW WORDS MISSED)) THE UNIVERSITY STUDENTSILLION COPIES OF THE STATEMENT ABOUT THESE AFFAIRSEW WORDS MISSED))

KNOW UHAT WENT TN THERE

NTERPRETING) ): T)) HAD COTTEN SO BAD THAT ALI WAS AFRAID OF COMINS OVER. AND HE BROUGHT IT TO HIS ATTENTION THAT IT WAS WITH THE'APPROVAL OF THE IMAM KHOMEINI EW WORDS

ICRTH: AS AFRAID?

ali WAS AFRAID CF COMING TO THIS channel. HE WAS MORE AFRAID BECAUSE HE DIDN'T CONTACT THIS CHANNEL THEY JUST SENT.

AHRAMANI:

NTERPRETING)): ALI WAS AFRAIDEW WORDS MI SSED) IF IT WAS blown. IT WAS only BLOWN

AKRAHANIr

F" v

((FEW EXCHANGESCRTHi BUT OHOnSANIFAR KNOWS SOMETHING IS COINC ON.

HE DOESN'T KNOW EXACTLYEU WCRD3 MISSED)) UNLESS KANCARLU HAS TOLO HIM.

; A3LU CCESN'T KNOW EVERYTHING

C-RTH: OCD POINT.

SOMETHINO IS HAPPENING.IM.

HE KNOWS ABOUT THE MEETING IN BRUSSELS 1AXIN: INTERPRETING FOR BAHRAI1ANI) )

((PORTIONAKIM: DOES HE MENTION HIS NAME? JORTH: YES.

SECCRD: HEOUNG BOY. JAHRAMANI:

INTERPRETING) ): HE THINKS IT'S ESKANDARI. SECCRD: IT'S GOOD IF HE THINKS THAT.

WHICH ONE IS HE?

="ECORD: HE WAS INHADRID. REMEMBER? "AKIM: HE'S STILL THERE. THAT'S ONE REASON THEY'RE GOING BACK. SECORD: HE'S AORD HISSED)AHRAMA.NI:

NTERPRETING)>: HE REFUSES TO GO BACK, AND IF HE DOESN'T RELEASE THE MONEY. HE IS SUPPOSED TO GO HOMEEU WORDS MISSED)). HE'S COTILLIONTO THIS, I'M NOT KIDDINGHE'S COTILLION DOLLARS. HE HAS HIS ORDER FROM* HIS, COUSIN, MOHSEN PEZA'I. TO GO BACK . HE DOESN'TWORDANT TO CO SACK BECAUSE HE WANTS TO MAKE THIS COMMISSION FOR-THE TOWS.EU WORDSE CAN0 PER TOW 'THAT THEY BRING IN.

HAKIM: SECORD:

THERE'S NO ONE ELSE HAS EVER DELIVERED

THEY KNOW THAT. FEW WORDS MISSED)) HE DOESN'T

HE SAYS THAT THEY KNOW IT. BUT THIS IDIOTEW MISSED)).

AND HE DOESN'T RELEASE THE MONEY. YOU KNOW WHAThS tiEglO TELLING HIM? HE SAID. 'WHY DON'T YOU TAKE THEILLION DOLLARS -ANOORD MISSED)).

.HASINK WITH AMERICANS AND THEN THEYAYUB ^FOLLOW UP ON THISND THISVwieHFhl/ AND HIMSELFFEU WORDS MISSED)

ESKANDAR APPO

AYU3. MR./HASHEMI

NTERPRETING)); THE MISINFORMATION THAT ALI HAS BRDUCHT OUT!

ANDH PER9*IAN TOECCRD: DOES KANGARLU KNOW OF HIS INVOLVEMENT. OF THE DETAILS?

EWBUTKANCARLU) )HAS COME TOAHRAMAWrn-.MJT KNOWING HE'S INVOLVED. AND ASKED HISTHREE OR FOUR WEEKS AGO.

a AHRAnAr; i

hen he returned from washington, two days after thatent tobahramani) ).

ecause he knows that ali knows what's coinoew wordsound out. and he told eskandari.

jakramani:

((WORDSEPT ASKING ME. COINC ON IN BRUSSELS?' 1 SAID.

his particularew wordsrussels. ;ave

'ARE YOU CURRENT ON WHAT'S GOINGORDS

IF HE KNEW HOW WOULD HEUT BRUSSELS? THIS KANCARLU KNOWS. YES. EUT HOWE KNOW? 3AKPAMANI:

HAKIM; AFTER ASKING BAHRAMANI )) HASHEMI-RAFSANJANI TOLD

SECCRD: THAT THEREISCUSSION IN BRUSSELS

(AKIN AND HE HAD YOUR NAME AND MY NAME. BUT THEY DIDN'T WANT TO USE HIS

NAME. HE PREPARED THE REPORT, LET ME SACK UP. HE PREPARED THE REPORT. WHEN he WENT BACK FROM BRUSSELS. HE PREPARED THE'REPORT'FOR HIS he SAID. 'IEETING WITH FOUR PEOPLE, ' AND .HE PUT TWO FAKE NAMES AND CORRECT NAMES. HE MENTIONED YOU BY NAME.-tHENTY FIRST NAJ-.E. AND DISCUSSED EVERYTHING THAT WE HAD DISCUSSEDASHEMI-RAFSANUANI CALLS KANGARLU IN AND SAYS. 'HEY. YOU LIEO TO US, AVE. THROUGH MYSAYINO'.WHAT THE SOURCE INFORMATION. AND THE INFORMATION SAYSfo..VERYTHING THAT WE DISCUSSEDORDS ?pr

m

^HIM NDTHINl

iECORD. AND THAT'S WHY HE WAS FISHING THAT'S WHY HE ?CAME TO YOU. SIR? YEAH. AND THAT'S WHYO

md. henifar, 'something's goino on. ' - r^v

iop.th: o cstjhts s.. working. that's what we've cot to do.

imc TjJTje/all over the freak in world. what we've cot

Pnftr^how we're cox wo to handle the next. literally, soint along the line. we're going to de forced that we're holding private discussions with the

ave: ew words missed)) to cet tkos damn hostaces so that we can p

to release those eest light on this

ecord: theee is that we can afford the heat, buton't think They cam. ean, you can take the high road. ou canf course we're talkinc. we're trying all thefew wordsse every channel available. and we're also trying to stop this bloodyeweace in the region. on't think they can stand the heat. do you acs i

ECORD: CUT THEIREW WORDS

OR TH. I UNDERSTAND THAT. THAT'S WHY TH BACKGROUND IS VERY

IMPORTANT TO WHAT WE SAY CRAY. YOU KNOW. EAN. THERE'S ALREADY RUMORS, AND WE'VE SEEN THE JACK ANDERSON STUFF.

ECORD: IS HE AHRAMAMI) I FINISHED WITH HIS AGENDA?

'AKIM: KRAMAN*))

3 AHRAMANI:

MCMTAZE.1i. HE IS HOT ON CCZH TERMS WITH THESHUTHOUSE TO PECFLE SO NO ONE CAN CO TG HIH. AND HE HAS

ASIrt: EW WORDS)) IS ACTUALLY ON SADRTM: WHO? AKIM

HE HAS SEQUESTERED HIMSELF. ut THE BEST way" ^uu can hui ii.

IS HE UNDER HOI/EE ARREST?

no. that'spersian word forkuuhus when he does it himself, but it's understood he has to do it.

AVE: OPTH AVE

HE DIDN'T DO IT HE'D BE IN DEEP

HAV&AS&IL

HINX WHERF WE OUGHT TO HEADFD.OUGHT TO BE HADE WHEN THESE TWO GUYS ARE RELEASED

:>tV ACTICAL THING-THATJfc

40RTH: dKr^HEY. CU^TljpWNSTAIRS, IF YOU GOT ANY MORE TAPE. SOMEBODYUP. LAUGHS) > WE'RE OUT OF TAPE FOR OURCHINE. .

((APPARENTLY TALKING

WHAT DOEWO CHANGE HIS TAPE? ABOUT BAHRAMANI. WHO HAS LEFT THE ROOM. ))

AAIM: HE PROBABLY WENT TO SEEEU WORDS MISSED)).

ECCRD: HE WENT TOORD MISSED))

CRTH: WHY. WHY ISEW WORDS NlSSEf.

HE SAID. HE MENTIONED.

WIM BECAUSE WE STARTED TALKINGFEW*WORDS MISSED)ASKED HIM

DRTH.

IS HE CARRYING SOME EW WORDS HISSED)). ?D0 THEY HAVE ONE? NEXT DOOR? ARC YOU SURE?

WHAT DID' HE SAY?'

WHO UERE

THERE ARE TOO MANY THINGS HAPPPENIWC. SO LET ME COITTLE BIT? HE EU UDPDSONTAZERI. HE CLOSED SHOP. THAT MEANS HE KNEW THAT IF HE DIDN'T. HE WOULD BE IN DEEP SHIT, BECAUSE KHOMEINI HAS ONDERED RREST? OF THE, OF HIS CROUP WHO HAD PARTICIPATED IN ALL THE UNWANTED ACTIVITIES: THAT INCLUDES. THE ASSASSINATION OFEOPLE IN AFGHANISTAN. AND WHEN KHOMEINI SAYS "ARREST." IT MEANS EXECUTE THEM.

JRTH . I HEAR YOU, BUTITTLE CONFUSED. THE 1.

WERE KILLED. ASSASSINATED INT(

SAYYED MEHDI HASHEMI DID IT.

RTH. YEAH- BUT THOSE HAPPENED TO BE FRO-RUSSIAN PUFPET*s" OF_THE SOVIETS.

EW WORDSHAT ALI WAS DOING IS.. WHAT.THEYWERE EW WORDS HISSED)) ORTION INAUOIBLE)) THE CUYS THATOUT THAT DID NOT COOPERATE AMONG THE ?SHI 'AH?, THEY i

RTH: I'M NOT SURE OF THAT. EAN

CORD: ATHER THAT THESE ARE CUERRILLAS THAT HE HAS KILL

N SHOP. HE'SRRESTED YET? BUTL THAT KHOMEINI HAS MADE. HE'S SAID. "YOU YOURSELF IN. "EW WORDS MI6SED.HAT'S MY >YOU AGREE WITH THAT. SAM? THEY WILL CO AHEAD PEOPLE. BUT PERSIANS RETURN TO THE ROOM. ))

OFFICE OF

( (SEVERAL EXCHANGES

;AVE: APPARENTLY TRANSLATINGERSIAN NEWSPAPER. ))

THE IMAM HAS ISSUED ORDERS TO ARREST THOSE HAVE CONE ASTRAY.CONNECTED WITH MEHDI

IN PERSIAN)) -CHARCESTAQAIHST THIS CROUP: MURDER BEFORE THE REVOLUTION; COOPERATION WI TH"SA>AK. AND THIS IS CONNECTED TO MEHDIELL. HE'S GOING TO BE DEAD AFTER THIS ANYWAY. "KIDNAPPING AND MURCER AFTER THE REVOLUTION. HOLDING WEAPONS ANDLLEGALLY' FIVE. HOLDING SECRET GOVERNMENT DOCUMENTS) SIX. GOVERNMENT DOCUMENTS; SEVEN, SECRET. UNLAWFUL ACTIVITY...

AND HIZBALLAH?

OR TH: WHAT ROLE DID HE HAVE WITH THE

WE WILL' ASK HIM. BUT THE E STARTED TO TELL ME THIS.

WAS MR. AMEHO WAS KNOWN TO BE AN AMERICAN (ASKED KIM WHO WERE THE EOPLE THAT HE KILLED

ARE PEOPLE IN YEAH. AND HE SAYS EW WORDS MISSED. ))

( INAUDIBLE. ))

WHY DON'T WE CO ?TAKE A

((MUST BE PRAYER TIKE. PERSIANS TRYING TO ESTABLISH DIRECTION OF MECCA. AMERICANS LEAVE. ))

((END OFEGINNING OT TAPE AtoM

DURING FIRST PART OF TAPE. PARTICIPANTS APPEAR TOAP. EXCHANGES ARE FOR THE MOST PART INAUDIBLE. 'jjT

LATER THE AMERICANS. EXCEPT FOR HAKIM. APPEAR"-TO HAVE ROOM.

CAN I'.EAR CONVERSATION IN PERSIAN IN THE BACKGROUND DUTfcPI hOR

ISOLATED PHRASES. THE EXCHANGES ARE tzfSX)

AT ONE POINT. HOWEVER. THE PERSIANS PLACE TELEPHONE CA?

APPARENTLY TG TEHRAN. ANO PARTS CF THEIR END OF THE

CAN BE HEARD

rO SOMEt .STEP

econdFJf tJ1S -

* concluded by saturday at the

top

((END>

f

NOFORN

)

HAKIM:

CAVE:

HAKIM:

NORTH:

HAKIM:

CtBECINWINOyOF TAPENS UNINTELLIGIBLE EXCHANGES IV U. S

ONEU WORDSFEU UORDS MISSED)S THIS IN IRAN?

( (FEU WORDS MISSED)). ONE OF THEM WASAMEF AFGHANISTAN, AND THE AFGHANS HAVE SENT VERYORDESSSAGES IN CONNECTION WITH SEYYED MEHDI HASHEMI BEING RESPONSIBLE FORWORD MISSED) ).

HAKIM:

WO NEW poifws.-'UFEW WORDSHEY WERE ACCUSED OF BEING CIA'S AGENTS'FEW WORDS MISSED) ).

m

((INTERPRETS)) HEABO THAT THERE IS NOEU UORDS

MISSED)).

UAS THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THEORDND THE DAUA TOWARD THE HIZBALLAH?

HAKIH-

((INTERPRETS AFTER ASKING BAHRAMANI)) HIZBALLAH BASICALLY IS UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE IRANIAN GOVERNMENT. THE IRANIANEU UORDS MISSED)). WOU THERE IS WITHIN THE HIZBALLAH, THERE IS

A FACTION THAT ARE THE RADICALS AND THOSE ARE CONNECTED TO.

DEFINITELY, SAYYED MEHDI)) HASHEMI. AND. IN FACT THEY PUBLISHED A

NEWSPADER. AN ARTICLE EWSPAPER THAT. UH. AMERICAEW WORDS

MISSED)).

BAHRAMANI:

HAKIM: HEYTHAT THE LAsTvTuO HOSTACES WERE

TAKEN BY THESECAN NOT CONFIRMHEY ARE IN THE

PROCESS OF QUESTIONINGOFORTION MISSED.))

NORTH: YOU HAD ASKED EARLIER UHAT IT IS WE REALLYhat WE want TO DO

HAKIM: WORTH:

HAKIM:

vmiB

IS WE WANT TO GET BACK ON TRACKOVERNMENT.

((INTERPRETS))

WE WANT TOROPER RELATIONSHIP, THATOOPERATIVE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN OUR TWO GOVERNMENTS.

((IN)ERPRETS) )

HAKIM: NORTH:

HAKIM: NORTH:

CONCERNS ARE VERY GREAT: THE IRAN-IRAQ WAR* THE SOVIET INVOLVEMENT IN THE REGION; ALL of THOSE ARE WORKING AGAINST BOTH you and us.

: ERPRETSVf*

timecXlNST YOU AND US. WE BOTH RECOGNIZE THATAREMAJORTERMS ofFORMAL RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN OUR TWO GOVERNMENTS.

INTERPRETS))

theSasNer weJanTut THAT OBSTACLE OUT OF THE WAY and start WORKING

hsa^tSaafiwaSi other issues, the better for you. the better

FOR usriom^^

NTERPRETS))

((PHONE RINGS. HAKIM ANSWERS AND TALKS BRIEFLY IN PERSIAN. CAN'T MAKE OUT WHAT HE SAYS. ))

NORTH: THE THINGS WE DO HERE IN THE NEXT FEWMPORTANT. WE DON'T WANT TO DO THE WRONG THINGS. EW WORDS MISSED) ). FOR EXAAMPLE. DO rW^NJ US--THE RESIDENT OR SHULTZ OR POINDEXTER ORSaPe6mETHING POSITIVE ABOUT IRAN WHEN THESE TWO HOSTACES ARE

HAKIM:

NORTH: THAT'S AN IMPORTANT FACTOR. ^ rj

SECCRD: ANOTHER EXAMPLE IS DO YOU WAW&iuR PRESIDENT TO MAKEIT EARL IER JTHAN. UH

MUCH DEPENDS ON HOW THEY ARE TO"BE* TURNED OVER. THAT THEY WILL BE FREED?

DO YOU EXPECT

ORD MISSED) ) IS VERY IMPORTANT. TOO. HE SAYS WHEN HE COMES TO THE POINT THAT HE CAN AT LEAST .CLARIFYORTION MISSED))

north: hakim-north: hakim:

BAHRAMANI:

HAKIM: NTERPRETS)) ANY SENTENCES MISSED. ))

((PORTION MISSED)) KNOWS ?SO0 TOWS?EW WORDS MISSED))

IESSAGE FROMORTIONnd.HE- GOT.THE MESSAGE THAT THE TOWS AREORTION1 FOR THE HAWK PARTS AND THE ISSUE OF - , M,

and he also knows that the cloc i

I UNDERSTAND.

IN that message he Says me knows. is ticking.

NORTH: HAKIM:

AKIM;

NORTH:

HAKIM:

CAVE:

HAKIM:

NORTH:

hakim;

lfiT>^TQ C

4UNN1UT^jx H

HE knowsAr IS R

CFI^IONSt^^LI WENT BACK AND TRIED TO COORDINATE THING Si

i HoSLd BECOmTaCOMPLICATED 7PHASE?, AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO MEET THE DEADLINE THAT 'S MY OPINION. YOU KNOW THEY HAVEN'THANCE TTJ^TaLki THEY NEED TO TALK. I SUGGEST THE FOLLOWING THAT HE JUST OObNVND FINISH MITH THIS BRIEFING HERE, ANDREAK. AND WE TALK^IT OVER. ATHEyOTHER ORTION MISSED )) THE HOSTAGES, BECAUSE

ON'THINK THAT I'M HEARING THAT ONEHQSfA^*IB"COINC TO BE RELEASEDEW WORDS MISSEDofEART^OF THE AGREEMENT ON'T LIKEORTION HMDU

im'T UANT THEEW WORDS MISSED) ) THE WORK THAT WE HAVE ALREADY

DONE.

((INAUDIBLE))

I DON'T CARE WHERE HE COES.MISSED) ).

l UNDERSTAND. BUT

I UNDERSTAND THAT. THAT'S WHY HE CANNOT CO BACK.

S HE GETS THE HOSTACESORD

"

((FEW WORDSO COORDINATE.

WE'LL SEND HIM TO MIAMI BEACH.

ALI SAYS THAT HE HAS TO CO BACK TO TEHRAN

WELL IF THAT'S WHAT IT TAKES. THEN HE COES BACK TO TEHRAN. THE IMPORTANT THING IS. AT THIS POINT. THAT I CAN CO BACK TO WHEREAVE TO CO AND ASSURE MY BOSS THAT THE PLAN HE APPROVED IS INDEED BEING CARRIEDTHERE IS CONFIDENCE THAT BOTH SIDES ARE INDEED FULFILLING WHAT THEY SAID THEY'D DO. OUR SIDE UNDERSTOOD THAT WE'VE COT THE MAPS. WE'VE GOT INTELLIGENCE. WE'VE GOT ALL THIS OTHER SHIT. AND IF I CO BACK AND TELL THEM THIS PIECE OP PAPER IS NO GOODE TEAR IT UP. I ONG WALK.

I UNDERSTAND THAT,M CONCERNED THAT BEFORE WE PASS THIS ON TO HIM, I'D LIKE TO SIT DOWN ANDEW WORDS

HAKIM:

YOU THINK WE CANREAK, THEN?

I NEEDRINUTES TO TALK ABOUT THIS WITHHH* THIS ON.

IN BEFORE ?WE? PASS

.HAKIM. NORTH. HAKIM;

DON'T SEEUTFEW WORDS MISSED) )

WELL I JUST WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT THE HELL'S GOING Or*

WHAT IS GOING ON IS THAT IFEW WORDS MISSED) ), THE MANEW UORDS MISSED) ) THE ISSUE OF THE HOSTACES. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT ANY OTHER ISSUE. I'M TALKING ABOUT THE HOSTAGES NOW IF WE DERAILED, ALI WOULD BE KEPTIF WE DERAILED IT. THEN LATER HE SAID IF WE AGREE THAT ALI GOES BACK AND__COQfiO;

THIS EW AGREEMENT. DO YOU FOLLOW ME?

HAKIM:

NORTH: HAKIM:

CAVE: NORTH:

OT DEMANDS* OK. AND 7WORRIED? THAT WEO FACES FOUR DAYS AFTER THEY CET THE 7MISSILES?

HED. WHAT IN THE HELL DOES IT MEANANT TO SIT DOWN AND TALK ABOUT THIS. TO MEEW CAME, WHICH I DO NOT LIKE THE SMELL OF IT EVERYTHING HASAS TOLD EVERYTHING WAS COORDINATED. WHAT DOES THlS"MEAN?rI'D.CIKE TO TOSS THIS THING AROUND BEFORE WEWO WORDSITf04lM.

I THINK THE IMPORTANT THING IS THAT WE'VE COT Tp HAVE TWO HOSTAGES BY SUNDAY.

mm

YEAH I DON'T SAY. IF THEY'RE NOT OUT BY SUNDAY. I DON'T. LET ME JUST MAKE THIS ONE POINT. YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE TWO OF YOU 7TRY AND COMMENT? IF WEAVE TWO HOSTACES BY SUNDAY, ON MONDAY MORNING SOMEONE IS GOING TO FOLLOW UP ON ONE OF THESE OTHER CONTACTS AND NEVER AGAIN WILL THIS CROUPVOF PEOPLE BE GATHERED TOGETHER WILL BE OVER. THAT POINT HAJTCOT

TO BE MADE.

AHRAMANI:

HAKIM: NTERPRETS))

THERE IS NO PROBLEM.

HAKIM: NTERPRETS) ) ORTION MISSED)) AS SMART ENOUGH THAT I DIDN'T THINK THAT IT CAN HAPPEN ON WEDNESDAY. EW WORDS MISSED) ) AND ANY TIME BETWEEN WEDNESDAY AND THEH OF NOVEMBERFEW WORDS MISSED))

SECORD: I'M NOT COINO TO ACCEPT THAT ANY OF THISFEW WORDS

MISSED)) WE DELIVERED THESE THINGS AS QUICKLY AS WE COULD

UNDERSTAND. HE SAID IF HE KNEWEW WORDSE WOULD NOT HAVE COME TO THIS MEETING* HE WOULD HAVE STAYED HOME TO COORDINATE. AND THEM I HAVEORDSND WE WERE IN TOUCH WITH HIM* AW NOPROBLEM WITHEW WORDS MISSED)). AND NOW HE TELLS ME THAT THERE IS NOEW WORDS MISSED. )) THE POWER STRUGGLE* EW WORDSUESTION OF OETTINO CREDIT FOR IT* ON'T KNOW. THERE IS SOMETHING HERE THAT IS NOT JIBING, AND I WANT TO UNDERSTAND IT. AND FOR THAT. I NEED TO TALK ABOUT IT.

ahramani: naudible))

hak im: this is the most important o. if you don't mind. gentlemen. sam could translate. ll to cet ew words mi!

north. cave:

hakim: north: hakim: north: hakim:

NORTH:

tho cuvs talk. heessage toon't like the way thincs ?are going?.

well. 'let's just find out what he's ?cot in mind?.

e^says* there's ho problem. that they're going to be

released by sunday.*

okay: 'are you satisfied?

no. awon't besatisfied until sunday

well.aking all the rules in this ball came.

i know but whenew wordse have ahere. we have anttle?. if we hear from?we know? themhear from both of themhave coordinated this thing.ould feel much better(two words missed.ut whencrdhere. and iaccess toewo calls.ord missed)know whats going on. and everybodyew words missed.hot going to let gonow what's going on. theythey ?co

all can wait an hour orhink it would be good to let them finish whatew wordsere about to say. ,

I'VE GIVENOT OF INFORMATION. IT MAY HAVE SOUND" LIKE STCRIES. BUT THATORTION MISSED)

) BACK IN TEHRAN. HE HE'S BAYING HE'S PASSING ON WHAT THE PEOPLE SAY THERE THEY CONSIDER EW WORDSOINTS AS THE OFFICIAL POSITION OF. THE NINE POINTS HE REFERRED TO AS THE AGREEMENT BETWEENEW WORDSND EXAMINING THE SEVEN POINTS. THEY COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT. IS VERY CAREFUL. AND HERE. HE REFERRED TOORDARLIER IN TAKING THE STEPS TOWARDS NORMALIZING RELATIONSHIPS. AND HE HAS DEFENDED OUR POSITION BY PASSING ON TO THEM THE POSITION OF THE US THROUGH THE WORDS OF GENERAL 6EC0RD. WHICH WERE THAT THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT WE WENTEAR OF SONG AND DANCE WITH ?YOU?. AND YOU RELEASED TWO PRIESTS FOR US AND THETNTURN Anomip, AND GRAB TSOflE? OTHER GUYS. THAT'S THE BOTTOM LIN*-HAVE PASSED THIS ON

HAKIM- (CINTERPRETS'J AS SOMEONE WHO'S INTERESTED IN SEEING THESE THINGS

LIKE TO TELL YOU THAT THERE ARE THREE STEPS. SEPARAT FROM THWTEPS THAT WE ALREADYILL SOLVEfi^ROBCEMS/^

fr('THE REMAINDER OF TAPEA7 IS UNINTELLIGIBLE- EW "OJDi^ tcULD BELIKE: SPARE PARTS. SEVENTY. HASHEMI-RAFSANJANl. ' TOUSJi

(<END>

((BEGINNINO TAPE AB))

((ENTIRE TAPE POOR OUALITY. BEGINNING FEW EXCHANCES COMPLETELY UNINTELLIGIBLE. INTELLIOIBLE PORTION BEGINS WITH THE FOLLOWING:)>

SECORD: THEYIST OF SPARE PARTS FROM THE AIR FORCE. BUT I DON'T TRUST THE AIR FORCE. BECAUSE WE WERE JUST STARTING TO TRAIN THE HOMAFARS IN THIS FIELD, AND,NONE OF THEM WERE IN... THEY WERE NOTLONG?. YOU KNOW. TljE^'j-JERE NOT REAL PROFICIENT. NONE OF THEM.

HAKIM: NTERPRETS FOR BAHRAMANI)I"

SECORD: I SUSPECT... MY GUESS IS THAT YOU HAVE BIG PROBLEMS IN THE FIRE CONTROLORD MISSED)) IRE CONTROL SYSTEM.

HAKIM: NTERPRETS FOR BAHRAMANI)S

SECORD: AND IN THE COURSE OF. NDOUBTEDLY, THERE ARE PROBLEMS WITHIN THE MISSILES THEMSELVES. BECAUSE THEY ARE EW WORDS MISSED. HAVE NOT SEEN THE LIST OF SPARE PARTS YOU TALK ABOUT. BUTOULD DON'T IMAGINE ERY GOOD LIST. I WOULD NOT BE INCLINED TO SAY THATALID LIST UNTIL EXPERT TECHNICIANS LOOK AT IT.

HAKIM: NTERPRETS FOR BAHRAMANI)>.

BAHRAMANI: ISSED))

SECORD: I ALSO BELIEVE THAT THEREOT OF SPARE PARTS^^THE DEPOTAND IN DOSHANTAPEH. ENTENCE MISSED)JJAY. TWO SITES. THESE TWO DEPOTS. I AM CERTAIfTTHAT* THERE ARESPARE PARTS WHICH THEY CAN NOT IDENTIFY BECAUSE ?THEY*RELOGISTICS SYSTEM. WORD

HAKIM: NTERPRETS FOR

"

SECORD: AND THFN FINALLY I WOULD SAY THAT IF YCUMISSILES. GOOD

TECHNICIANS COULD CANNIBALIZE AND MAKE OPERATIONAL SOME MISSILES VERYYOU HAD GOOD TECHNICIANS.

HAKIM: NTERPRETS FOR BAHRAnANl)).

< (PERIOD in WHICH SEVERAL PEOPLE ARE TALKING at ONCE* SECCRD: what I'm trying toot

THAT CAN BE FIXED OVER NIGHT. IT'S GOING TOITTLE BIT OF TIME. AND THE WHITE HOUSE IS COINC TO HAVE TO AUTHORIZE US TO SEND IN SOME TECHNICIANS. AND WE'VE COT TO CO THROUGH THESE STEPS BEFORE WE DO

IONHE TECHHAWKS THEY'RE TALKING

YOU KNOW, I'M SURE THE PRESIDENT WOULD AUTHORIZE US TO WORK THEM ON IT? IF WE COT OUR THREEEW WORDSREE PEOPLE

THE PROBLEM.

WAY, ALI, YOU GIVE ME THE THREE PEOPLE TOMORROW, EK WE'LL ?PROBABLY? HAVE SOME PEOPLE IDENTIFIED.

FOR'BAHRAMANIJ).

SECORD: TO AND

i

NTERPRETS FOR HENEW SENTENCES IN ENGLISH WHICH CAN NOT BE HEARD. ))

SECORD: ?KE IS? SAYINO THE SAME THINGUST SAID. EW WORDSHICHHINK THE PRESIDENT WILL AUTHORIZE US WE DO SOME TECHNICALALWAYS-TALKED ABOUT THISEW WORDSF WE CET OUR THREE PEOPLE BJg^THAT'SAID, "GIVE ME THE THREE PEOPLE TOMORROW, AND I'LLE'LL SAY THAT THEY'RE GOING TO CET SOME TECHNICIANS ?IN ASOU.tjia "WEEK?.

NORTH; THE BIG PROBLEM I'VE COT IS THE WHOLE DAMNEW WORDSEAN, IF WE'RE REALLY SINCERE ABOUT THIS WHOLE FRICGIN THING. WHAT WE OUGHT TO BE DOING IS. THEY OUGHT TO BE EXERCIZING EVERY POSSIBLE AMOUNT OF LEVERAGE THEY'VE COT TO GET THOSE PEOPLE OUT. AND WE AGREE THAT AS SOON AS THEY'RE OUT. WE CAN DO ALL KINDS OF COOD THINGS, BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE WE'RE ?HEADED?. WERICGIN FMS CONTACT ORDUI THERE. WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS TOORD MISSED TV AND ALL THIS SECRET SHIT. AND CET ON WITH THE REAL RELATIONSHIP.

HAKIM: INTERPRETS FOR BAHRAMANI) ).

NORTH: YOU KNOW. WHEN WE WERE IN TEHRAN. YOU KNOW, FOULED UP THOUGH IT

MAY HAVE BEEN, IF YOU LOOK AT THE DOCUMENT THATROTE AND MCFARLANE WAS PREPARED TO SIGN, YOU WILL SEE THAT THAT'S WHAT WE WEREUT WAY BACK THEN, WAY SACK IN MAY. FEW WORDS MISSED) ) BEYOND THE HOSTAGES, WE CAN CET ONORMAL

HAKIM: NTERPRETS FOR BAHRAMANI)).

NORTH: EVERYTHING WE HAVE DONE SINCE THE VERY FIRST CONTACT, "WHETHER IT BE STEP BY STEP OR WHETHER IT BE ALL AT ONCE, THAT'S WHERE WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO CO.

WORTH:

FOR .

VOU GUYS DON'T TRUST US, AND WE DON'T TRUST-YOU> AND SO WE END UP DOING ITTLE BITIME...

( (SEVERAL PEOPLE TALKING AT.

NORTH. SECORD:

TrA fRPL *NE?jp 7

HAKIM: rha

INC ABOUT THE LONGEW WORDSHAT'S TALKING ABOUT.

3

T KNOW UNTIL YC'J ACTUALLY GO OUT THERE AND ?TRY? ED) ).

THE INTEGRALSYSTEM IN THE NOSE OF

WE CAW GO JUMP THROUGH OUR ASS AND GETCANN0N? THAT WILLILLION DOLLARS, OR WHATEVER. AND IT WILL TURN OUT TO BE THE WRONG THING. EW WORDS KISSED)).

HAKIM: INTERPRETS FOR BAHRAMANI) ).

BAHRAMANI:

NORTH: HAKIM:

HAKIM: HE IS NOTNDERSTAND THAT.

( (FEW WORDSE'S SAYING THE SAME WAY THAT YOU ARE TELLING ME, WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT WOULD OPEN THE WAY FOR YOU IN THE UNITED STATES. M PASSING ON TO YOU THE WAY THAT WOULD OPEN THE WAY FOR ME AND FOR MY UNCLE JtfWi^s

HAKIM: NORTH:

((BRIEF EXCHANGE MISSED))

( (UNINTELLIGIBLE) )

HAKIM: NORTH:

HAKIM: NORTH;

HAKIM: north

YOU KNOW, WHEN WE CO AND DO SOMETHINO LIKE THAT. THERE ISN'T GOING TO BE AORD MISSED. )) NEW EXACTLY WHAT THE THREE THINGS YOU NERE GOINC TO TALK ABOUT WERE. YOU KNOW WHY? BECAUSE ANOTHER EMISSARY FROM IRAN HAS ALREADY TOLD OUR GOVERNMENT THAT. THAT'S EXACTLY THE THREE THINGS THAT WERE RAISED WITH US TWO WEEKS AGO.

( (INTERPRETS FOR

a^ncRI0HT THIW-7yl^afcm,AND IT N0,TD FDUL IT UP' 1 CAN

((INTERPRETS FOR BAHRAMANI)).

HNICAL HELP* 'AND WEur- "PHIMFNT.

rr- am. ^

((INTERPRETS FOR

AVC JT TO COOD OLDWORD HISSED)f.

1 UH

WE HAVE KNOWN FOREAR THAT YOU HEED ^TEC-HAVE OFFERED CONSTANTLY TO SEND IT. CO BACK AND THATROTE IN TEHRAN IN MAY

CAVE: NORTH:

WE

IN TEHRAN, ALL MCFARLANE SAID WAS, "LOOK. WE DON'TSE THE WAR) WE WANT AN HONORABLE SETTLEMENT. AND ALL DOTS USE YOUR INFLUENCE TO GET THOSE HOSTACES OUT, ANDOi DO ALL KINDS OF THINGS FOR YOU. " IN FACT, HE SAID, LIMIT JplRSELF TO JUST THIS. THERE IS MUCH. MUCH MORE THAT BE DONE. THE HOSTAGES HAVE TO CET BEHIND US. "

FOR BAHRAMANI)).

NORTH.

ARE CONVINCEDE HAS SAID IT BEFORE. HE SAIDT^IaEIER'THINGS BROKE UP IN IRAN. ANDEW WORDSO SEND THE STUFF. THAT INDICATED TO THE IRANIANS THAT THE AMERICANS HAVEEW WORDS MISSED)).

HOW THE HELL DD WE CET FROM WHERE WE ARE TODAY TO WHERE WE'VE COT TO OO?

NTERPRETS FOR BAHRAMANI)).

HAKIM: EOUNTRY! LIKE THEORTION MISSED)). THEN I SAID. "AN IMAM LIKEFIRST SHIAHFIRST ?GOVERHOR? OF SHI *ITES IN THE WORLD-HE DOESN'T HAVE THE POWER OF GOING TO LEBANON AND TELLING THOSE ASSHOLES TO RELEASE THE THREE HOSTACES?REAT RELIGIOUS. HE DOESN'TEW WORDS MISSED. )) I SAID, "WELL, OUR PRESIDENTEW WORDS MISSED. )ijLi^ 'M TRYING TO MAKE THE POINT THAT IT'S THE WRONG ATTITUDE TO SIT BACK ANO SAY THE UNITED STATESUPERPOWER. AND YOU FORGET THAT-THEY AREUPER RELIGIOUS COUNTRY. IT'S VERY EQUAL.

NORTH: WELL. EW WORDS MISSED)) THE INFLUENCE THAT THE IMAM HAS OVER THOSE WHO HOLD THE HOSTAGES ISORD MISSED.))

HAKIM: OF COURSE. HE CAN CET THOSE PEOPLE BACK WITH ONE WORD. ONE WORD. I AM CONVINCED. FEW WORDS MISSED. ))

HAKIM:

NORTH:

HAKIM: NORTH: HAKIM: HAKIM: NORTH:

FOR BAHRAMANI>).

ARE YOU GOING TO STICK TO THE PAPER THAT YOU CAVE THEM IN MAY, IF YOU GET THE HOSTAGES BACK?

SURE. AND YOU KNOWORDAPER ALSO .TALKS ABOUT "ALL OF THELL THE HOSTACES, ALL TERRORISM STOPS.

I UNDERSTAND. BUT YOU ARE PREPARED TO STICK TO YOUR PAPER OF MAY?

OFNTERPRETS FOREW WORDS MISSED)) COPY IN THE FILE? YEAH. AND THERE ISOPY THERE IN TEHRAN

HAKIM: MISSED))

<A>CES MISSED))

I?*

'ST'ClvINCIECE OF PAPER* WE HAVE ALREADY STARTEDE'VE TAKEN ACTION.

HP. AH.

SHINE DAYSEW WORDSVE CTVEH YOU THIS LIST OF THEUYS. YOU CAN AT THEY HAVE STUDIED IT AND EXAMINED IT AND THEY

NORTH: HAKIM: NORTH. SECORD: CAVE: SECORD.

CAVE: NORTH:

ARE

I HAVE ALREADY MET WITH THE KUWAITI PRIME MINISTER. NTERPRETS FOR BAHRAMANI)).

IN MY SPARE TIMEEW WORDS MISSED. )) E HAVE ALSOROM THE PRESIDENT.

AND SOME INTERESTING

(< CAVE AND BAHRAMANI CONVERSE,IN PERSIAN. UNINTELLIGIBLE. ))

;(SAYS SOMETHING IN ENGLISH. IG18LE. ))

WELL. OF COURSE THEY DO. OLDJyOUEAR AGO. LOOK. LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING. THESO WE ALL UNDERSTANDISIBLE EFFORT IS MADE BY THE UNITED STATES COVERNMENT WHENONG LIST OF HOSTACES BEING HELD IN LEBANON. THIS PRESIDENT IS GOING TO GET STONED BY MAGGIE THATCHER AND THE FRICGIN FRENCH. YO'J KNOW. IT JUST AIN'T GOING TO HAPPEN THAT THIS EFFORT IS GOING TO BE VISIBLE.

HE SAYS YOU CUYS DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKBOUT. HE SAYS. "THE ENGLISH JUST TOLD US THAT SOME RADARS ANDTECHNICIANS ARE IN

TEHRAN HOW. 1

HAKIM. BAHRAMANI:

I KNOW 3UT IT WASN'T DONE WITH THE AUTHORITY OF THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT.

4

((INTERPRETS FOR BAHRAMANI)).

((SEVERAL PERSONS TALKING AT ONCE.

CavE

OF QUIET CONVERSATION BETWEEN CAVE AND NORTHND BAHRAMANI IN PERSIAN))

NORTH: CAVE: NORTH: HAKIM

(fFEW/WORDSIPLOMATIC RELATIONS WITH THE SYRIANS BECAUSE THEY pAVE BEEN MAKING SOME PROGRESS WITH THE SYRIANS ON THE BRITISH

ETACE

WELL ONE'S an NTERPRETS FORAHRAMANI:

SAYS THEY COT INFORMATIONEW WORDS MISSED)) BRITISH PASSPORT.

NORTH: ?MCCARTHY?( E WAS S'JPpJsVdCV KILLED FEW WORDS MISSED) ).

(FEW WORDSE SAY9THAT THEY COT BRITISH PASSPORTS AND

THEN THEY WEREN'T SURPRISED THAT" WE WITHDREW OUR AMBASSADOR AND THEY WERE CLAD THAT WE DID NOT BREAK OFF RELATIONS WITH SYRIA. HE SAYS THAT EST OF SENTENCE MISSED)).

Bamr aman I!

CAVE

((PORTION MISSED) ) IF IRAQ JPSTXF IRAN WANTS TOORD MISSED)) THE THE IRAQ-IRAN WAR, THEY ?ARE?-BETTER ADVISED ?TO DO IT BY? THETHAN THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT

BECAUSE THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT HAS LITTLE OR NO INFLUENCE IN

SECCRD; CAVE:

BAGHDAD. AND THEY DO. EW WORDS MISSED) ).

SEE IF? THE BRITS WILL CET RID OF SADDAMNINTELLIGIBLE))

(( END OF TAPE AQ ))

EGINNING OFERY POOR QUALITY)PORTIONVERY WORRIED ABOUT THIS BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO INFORMATION

OJN0.TO fNVADEj THE RUSSIANS

;WILL KNOW IF WE SEND TECHNICIANSEXPERTS. THEY'LL BECOME AWARE OF IT.

FOR BAHRAMANI. MAKES ADDITIONAL COMMENTS TO>

AND EXPLAINS TO NORTH WHAT HE HAS TOLD BAHRAMANI. ONLY SNATCHES OF WHICH WERE INTELLIGIBLE.))

MC FAR LANE WAS INORD MISSED)). MY FRIEND ^AMI '

WAS THERE. HCFARLANE KEPT SAYING THINGS LIKE. "LODK^ PUT THIS BEHIND YOU. DON'T LIMITO THESE SMALL LITTLE THINGS. THINK BIG THINK BEYOND Trfg&jSTACES. THINK ECONOMICALLY OF ALL KINDS OF WAYS IN WHICH'* CAN HELP YOU. NOT JUSTO IN PHOENIX MISSILES. AND THAT'fe THE IMPORTANT THING TO DO. BUT WE CAN'T THINK BIC WHEN WE'VE OCT THAT STARING AT US.

BAHRAMANI:

( (CHATTER ABOUT SOMEONE NEEDINC ANABPIRINJ)

SECCRD: TELL HIM THAT IF HE JUST COSSjJUT TOMORROW OR THE NEXT DAY AND CRABS THOSE THREE GUYS OUT OF LEBANON. WE'LL GO BACK IN AND REBUILD HIS GODDAMN AIR FORCE. I BUILT IT ONCE. I'LL CO BACK IN AND BUILD IT AGAIN. THAT WAS MY BABY, I BUILT THAT AIR FORCE-FOURALF YEARS.

SECORD:

HAKIM:

SECCRD:

CAVE: SECCRD:

FOR BAHRAMANI)).

YOU SEE THAT TAKES THE HEAT OFF THE PRESIDENT. WE CAN CO OUT HERE AND RECRUIT PEOPLE AND SAM CAN HELP US FIND SOME PEOPLE-PEOPLE WHO HAVE RETIRED FROM THE MILITARY. PEOPLE.WHO ?ARE? IN INDUSTRY.

((INTERPRETS FOR BAHRAMANI) ).

WE'LL SAY THEY'RE SWISS OR SOMETHING. YOU KNOW, .'AND IT'S NOT BUT IT TAKES

((INTERPRETS FORNINTELLIGIBLE CHATTER. ))

I GUARANTEE HIM THAT IF HE LETS USOUPLE OF LOGISTICS EXPERTS INTO THEEPOT. WE'LLILLION DOLLARS WORTH OF STUFF THEY DON'T KNOW THEY'VETWO WEEKS.

FOR BAHRAMANI)

secord: he had an iranian air force with the most well-supplied air force the world has ever seen. portion missed))

that's hot an issue. ouple of words missed))

4 two millionay. he says the experts words missed)).

but that's because there hasn't been any new exploration 7SINCE the? war started.

more than four millionew words

even the shah couldissed)k

((unintelligible))

the point isi've been telling these guys forearfew well-placed technical experts. in whatever field tthey're talking about? they'll be worth more money than they could ever spend. few words! missed) )

((interprets for bahramani)

there is an important point on theordnd that is: that just like the mcfarlanethat will become public.

((interprets for bahramani>).

we want to make sure that we can do it rioht. and that it's not going to cost anythingew words missed)). but because of the risk of that becoming public. we can't doEW. words missed)).

((interprets for bahramani)).

it's time for you guys toeveral exchanges unintelligible. ))

the CUV who ram

trf-

we have the guyve already recruited the hawk system in iran for me.

( (interprets for bahramani)).

((several exchanges unintelligible. the room during this time. ))

hossein is running

NORTH-HAKIM:

CAVE: HAKIH: SECORD; HAKIM

SECORD:

NORTH: SECORD: HAKIM: NORTH:

WHO THE XPLETIVE)) IS HOSSEIN?

HIS LAST NAME IS MONAJJEMI. HEHIPPING COMPANY. HE'S THE ONLYCAN STILL PROVIDE WOMEN. WINE. AND DANCING AND OPIUM. HE PROVIDES

ii >feT3 THERE NOW

E IS THE-BASTARD?

D HE'S COINO TO BEIJING. ENTENCE MISSED.HAT HE'S BEINC TAKEN OUT OF THE DEAL ANDORDS

MISSED

ALI TOLD ME WHILE YOU WERE OUT OF THE ROOM THAT HE WAS OOING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM OF THE THREEEW WORDS MISSED)) BUT WE DON'T KNOW HOW.

I HAVE SOME DOUBT THAT HE WILL.

I DON'T CARE HDW RIGHT NOW

I DON'T CARE HDW EITHER. EX

HE CAN DO IT. I KNOW THAT,

WELL. YOU KNOW. YOU SAID IT YOURSELF. THE ONLY THING THAT WAS NECESSARY IS FOR THE IMAM TO MAKE VERY CLEAR TO

HIS SITUATION IS RIGHT FOR THEM TO DO IT.

AYUB HAS JO GET EW WORDS MISSED. )) HE CAN'T

DO IT FROM

HE SAY? AYUB WAS STAYING HERE?

SECCRD. NO. AYUB WAS SENT TO PORTUGAL.

HE COINO TO DO IT FROM PORTUGAL? HOW'S HE OOINO TO

THOSE GUVS RELEASEDEW WORDS MISSED.))

SECCRD:

NORTH: HAKIM

UMBER OF EXCHANGESHATTER ABOUT GOING SOMEWHERE TO EAT. ))

GRAB ALL

I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY IT'S NOT EASIER FOR THREE IN ONE STROKE.

I DON'T EITHER.

BECAUSE. I OU WANT AN ANSWER? BECAUSEEW WORDSNOT GOING TO USE KHOMEINI. EW WORDSUTWANT TO USE THEIR BIG

HAKIM:

CAVE:

HAKIM:

EXCHANGES MISSED.HEY DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY ARE. THEY KNOW WHERE THEY ARE NO. THEY KNOW WHO HAS TH

THEY KNOW WHERE THEY ARE. TOO. YOU THINK AYUD'6 BOYS DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY ARE?

NORTH:

SECORD:

CAVE: NORTH;

NORTH:

SECORD:

NORTH:

SECORD:

NORTH:

SECORD:

CAVE:

SECORD:

NORTH.

THEY KNOW EXACTLY WHERE THEY ARE.

THEY OFFERED TO ?OIVE?

1THATEW WORDS MISSED)>

THE LOCATION OF THE THIRD ONE.

AND THE LOCATION OF THE OTHER THREE. AMERICANS MISSINC. ?CUYS?. SIX.

JELF>KNOW THAT THE PALESTINIANS ARE INVOLVED IN SOMEORD MISSED. )>

I THINK THAT THE LIBYANS ARE PROBABLY INVOLVED IN THE LAST THREE, BUT I DON'T KNOWEW WORDS MISSED.))

SO THEY MAY WELL BEO THE TRUTH WHEN THEY SAY THAT THEY DON'S KNOW WHERE THEY ARE.

' FRUIT CAKE.

fl

THAT ONE CUY HAS ASRANT YOU THAT. ANYBODY WOULDEW WORDS MISSED.EU EXCHANGES MISSED. >) ' :

DO YOU THINK THAT CONTRACT?EW WORDS MISSED.UT THE IRANIANS MAY NOT BE* CULPABLE.

NO. BUT THEY CAN TELL US WHERE THEY ARE. THEIR FEW WORDS MISSED)) IS MUCVBETTER THAN OURS.

THEY MAY NOT KNOW WHERE THEY ARE.

THEN THEY CAN FIND THEM.

I DON'T KNOW IF THEY COULD OR NOT. YOU KNOW HOW CONSTRAINED THEY ARE. .

IF THEY'RE NOT CULPABLE. THEY AREEW WORDS '

F?

YOU KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE. THEY'RE SO THEY MIOHT NOT

IF THEY CET THE RIGHTEW WORDS MISSED)).

T EITHER.

H OF NOVEMBER? HOPENEED HIM THEN?.

NO,OPE

we^'RIpCOINQNECOTIATINQ ?ABOUT? the NEW HOSTAGES BYLAUGHTER))

YE COYS.

GAIN jJonicht.

( (SEVERAL EXCHANOES MISSED))

DID YOU EVER FIGURE OUT WHAT TIME YOU'RE GOING.IN THEeu EXCHANGES MISSED))

'M REALLY SERIOUS ABOUT THAT..,

if HE THINKS HE'S ODT TO GO BACK THERE TO HAKE IT WORK. let HIM CO BACK THERE.

iECORD AND CAVE: *ORTH:

>SECORD?: LET HIM CO BACK THEREEW WORDSAN ?BACKHAS SUPPOSED TOEETINGEW WORDS MISSED)).

?HAKIM?

FRIDAY? IT ?MAY NOT BE DONE? BY FRIDAY. THAT'S ONLY TWO

DAYS AWAY.

n.

WELL. I'M TRYING TO FIND OUT WHAT SORT OF MIRACLE IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN.

NORTH:

I NEED TO KNOW AT THIS POINT, TWOEED TO KNOW WHATUS TO SAY ABOUT

HAKIM:

NORTH HAKIM:

((FEW WORDS MISSED)). YOU KNOW, I TOLDTIMECOTHROUGH ME. YOU COTORDME. I WANT YOU TO BE RIGHT BACK IN THE MIDDLE. HAT THEY ARE COINC TO MEET THEIR REALLY

FOR YOUR SAKE. I HOPE SO.

((LAUGHS))

USCJSTATtl EXCHANGE MISSEDECORD: Qs WAITE STILL CALLlNcTj

NORTH: EAH, WAITE'S BEENOZENALF TIMES. HONEHERE HE IS AGAIN. AUGHTErTTJ

((HAKIM ANSWERS PHONE. TALKS IH PERSIAN BRIEFLY. TURNS THE PHONE OVER TO NORTHOUPLE OF MINUTES WHO TELLS THE PARTY ON THEHE IS DOING GOOD WORK AND THAT "WE WON'T FORGET" DONE. ALSO ASKS THE PARTY IF HE HAS RECEIVED JL-^QM HIS DAUGHTER. THEN HE TURNS THE PHONE BACK TO 'WHO TALKS IN PERSIAN WHILE THE AMERICANS CONVERSE AMONG SELVES AB*DUT" GOING TO DINNER. THEN THEY ALL LEAVE THE ROOM. ))

N TAPINO RESUMES AOAIN, THE IRANIANS AND HAKIMTHE BACKGROUND IN PERSIAN. ONLYPHRASES COULD BE UNDERSTOOD. BAHRAMANI CAN BE SAYING THAT SOKE ACTION SHOULD BESOON AB^POSSIBLE. -TOMORROW MORNING WOULD BE BETTERrMY_AFJER>TOMORROW. THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW WOULD BETHE NEXT DAY?. THE DEADLINE IS SUNDAY. AND ANY DAY WOULD BE BETTER THAN THE PREVIOUS ONEIC)) "

((END OF

((BEGINNING cBtAPE AlO))

((TAPE TEN CONSISTS ENTI RElV* OF1 CONVERSATION AMONG THE PERSIANS IN THE BACKGROUND. AND ONLY ISOLATED UORDS AND PHRASES COULD

BE UNDERSTOOD. HAKIM WAS PRESENT FOR AT LEAST PART OF THE TIME.

ANDHONE CALL IN WHICH HE TALKED ABOUT ITEMS WHICH HE

REFERRED TO'S.

((END OF TAPE MO))

I sag-?7

TOP SECRET NOFORN

((BAHRAMANI AND ANOTHER PERSIAN. ?ALI SALARI?.

CONVERSING. ONLY ISOLATED PORTIONS CAN BE UNDERSTOOD. CALL HADE TO HOTEL SWITCHBOARD TO FIND OUTELEX HAD BEEN RECEIVED^ROM TEHRAN. ANOTHER CALL

ORDERING BREAKFAST HAKIM ARRIVES. HAKIMHONE CALE^ASKSR. SCHNEIDER.

SCHNEIDER NOT AVAALKS TO SOMEONE ELSE

(THIS CALL IS ON THE "B* "TAPES RECORDED DURING THESEATER. PHONE RINGS AND BAHRAMANI TALKS 3RIEFLY TO SOMEONE IN PERSIAN. BREAKFAST ARRIVES. )>

((TAPE BEGINS WITH PARTICIPANTS APPARENTLYFOR THEIR MEETING. SOMEONE OPENS IN THE DISTANCE. PROBABLY IN AN SOUNDS LIKE THE MAID IS CLEANING UPCHATS BRIEFLY WITH HER IN7SALARI? CHAT. . PARTICIPANTS BEGIN TO */

CAVE: SECORD:

CAVE: SECORD:

THINGS WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT. WE WON'T gpcMn HilPHTWO THINGS ARE VERY

INTERPRETS)-

?HE/WE? SAID THAT IRAN. THE COUNTRY. IS NOW RUN LIKE SHAREHOLDING -DIFFERENT CROUPS SHARING POWER.

((INTERPRETS))

OUR CROUP. IS MEN, ARE VERY CONCERNED

AS TO WHETHER OR NOT WE ARE INDEED DEALING WITH THE GOVERNMENT OF^JRAN. THEY RECOGNIZE THAT THERE ARE DIFFERENT FACTIONS; YET rjltbvOUESTIDN WHETHER WE'RE DEALING WITH THE TOP.

TNTER

f

'ifHIS EXERCISE THAT WE'VE RUN THROUGH THE PAST SEVERAL WEEKS 'ABOUT GETTING THE MONEY INTO THE BANK, INTO OUR SYSTEM SO WE AN GET THE TOWS- HAS BEEN WORSEORD MISSING) ). IT'S IBLE? AND THE IMAGE CREATED BACK IN WASHINGTON IS WHAT

JUST AS IN ANY BIO COUNTRY. THE PRESIDENT GETS INFORMATION FROM MANY OF HISINTELLIGENCE PEOPLE. INFORMATION PEOPLE. SENIOR ADVISORS. UMBER OF ADVISORS TO THE PRESIDENT THINK THAT WE'REMUST BE CRA2Y.

SECORD:

CAVE:

CAVE:

SO MAYBE SAM AND I AND WE LIVE WITH IT. T'S NOT LOGICAL. A LOGICAL PROCESS.

((INTERPRETS))

CAN UNDERSTAND SOME OF THIS BECAUSE CANNOT. IT JUST DOES NOT MAKE SENSE; MAKE THISEASONABLE.

UESS THAT'S GOOD NEWS. THIS. OF COURSE, WOULD BE ONEMPORTANT STEP IN CREATING THE KIND OF SITUATION WE WANT TO CREATE WHICH IS ONE OF MUTUAL TRUST. IF WE CANNOT DEVELOP IN THE NEXT FEWONDITION WHERE WASHINGTON AND TEHRAN HAVE AT LEAST SOME TRUST IN ONE ANOTHER. WE'LL FAIL.

SECORD:

CAVE:

SECORD

TILL WE PREPARE TO CO FORWARD. TILL WE GET READY^Q, MOVE FORWARD. YOU NEED TO GET THE MONEY FROM EUROPE HERE SOME PLACE. SO YOU HAV1 YOUR HANDS ON IT, SO IT CAN BE RELEASEDAY. OF THE TIME THAT WE AGREE TO TAKE ANOTHER STEP. WE NEED*TO HAVE THE MONEY ALI RIGHT HERE WITHOUT ANY STRINGS ON IT SO WE DON'T HAVE TO CO THROU' THIS JOKE AGAIN.

((INTERPRETS))

NOW. WHAT WE'RE CONCERNED WITH IS NOT IHE^HDl i.

BACK HOME IN WASHINGTON PEOPLE SAY IF YOU ARE DEALING WITH THE IRANIAN GOVERNMENT, THEN THREE MILLION DOLLARS. RS NOTHING. YOU MUST NOT BE DEALINC WITH THE GOVERNMENT

secord:

the nextamal.

IELAT

and this has to do with

CAVE: SECORD:

CAVE: SECORD:

CAVE: SECORD:

CAVE: SECORD:

CAVE: BAHRAMANI CAVE: BAHRAMANI:

CAVE:

THAT IS FALSE HE

HEARD OF HIM BUT DID NOT KNOW HIM. WITH OH ORAR. NTERPRETS))

WE DO NOT NEED ANOTHER CHORBANIFAR WE WILL NOT ACCEPT cW Uj -ftWtfb

NTERPRETS) ) teU

WE HAVE NO OBJECTION TOJfeusiNESSMEN MAKING MONEY. THAT'S COOD. WE DON'T CARE ABOUT THaJT^T'S NOT IMPORTANT TO US. WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO US IS SECURITY^

<(INTERPRETS))

NOW. UGGESTION. BECAUSE WE DO NOT WISH TO CREATE PROBLEl WE WANT TO CET OUR HOSTACES OUT* WE DON'TOT OF NOISE, OT OF TALK. SO WE'LL TALK WITH KAMAL HERE FOR THE NEXT FEW DAYS BUT WHEN WE CET PAST THIS NEXT STEP, WE WANT TO SEE KAMAL OFF TO ONE SIDE.

yrrca

((INTERPRETS))

HAVfc NUIHIM.,

1 WOULD LIKE TO HEAR HIS OPINIDN NOW. I HAVE NOTHING MORE TO SAY ON THAT. HAS HE FINISHED WHAT HE1 PERHAPS WE COULD HEAR HIS OPINION

((INTERPRETS))

((INTERPRETS))NAUDIBLE))

E SAYS. ON THE QUESTION OF MONEY, HE SAYS.UST COT INVOLVED INEW MONTHS AGO.ON'TORTIONPOUT THE FINANCIALEW WORDS MISSED)).

heon't knowlarge portion hissed.o tehran. aj they^accept that the fact that this hasroblem. and

out.

HE SAYS WHAT THEY'VE BEEN TRYING TO DO IS TO SET UP AN ACCOUNT WHICH WOULD BE UNDER AYUB'S CONTROL AND TOHAVEILLION DOLLARS IN IT SO THAT WE CAN. WHEN THEYHROUGH WITH'THE TRANSACTION?, UE CANEW WORDS MISSED) )

((INTERPRETS)) HE SAYSHERE ARE)) SOFEW WORDS MISSED) THAT FROM THE TIME THEY STARTEW WORDSIT TAKES? ATORKING DAYS TO CET THROUGH ALL THE VARIOUS BANKEW WORDS MISSED)) IN GETTING BACK TO THEADERAT.

THEY GIVE AYUB MONEY* THEN THAT WILLEW MISSED)). IT WON'TROBLEM.

((MISSED)).

WORDS

SECORD:

CAVE: BAHRAMANI

SAYS, ANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE PROBLEM OF KAMAL.

ANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE PROBLEM OF KAMAL. KAMAL. BUT IN THE CONTEXT OF ALL THE OTHERARE INVOLVED IN THIS. BECAUSE PORTION MISSED) ) A T

-A.

SECORD: IN OTHER WORDS HE AGREES WITH ME.

((SEVERAL EXCHANGES INAUDIBLE) ).

BAHRAMANI:

CAVE:

CAVE:

SECORD;

CAVE:

BAMRAHANI

CAVE-

HANDLEOLUTION FOR THAT PROBLEM.

((INTERPRETS))

(fINTERPRETS)) (IINAUDIDl

BAHRAMANI

hat he has with chancw is that

ays. onestly.don't know how to

((END OF TAPE AMI)

BAHRANAHI:

CAVE: vf HE SAYS IFWO WORDS MISSED) ) FROM THEE LEFT AMD-WENT BACK THE LAST TIME. HE SAYS HE HAD TEN CALLS FROM CHANCIZ ASKING WHERE HIS MONEY WAS.

SECORD; MY SU0GESTI_ONIS THAT WE SIMPLY TAKE CHANCIZ OUT OF THIS LOOP.

WORKS FJRJje. WE GOT HIM ENGAGED TO START WITH BECAUSE WE

THAT HAD CONTACT WITH KAMAL AND, THROUGH KAMAL.

HE SAYS THAT YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT WHEN YOU

TALK ABOUT KAMAL BEINGEW WORDS MISSED)) AND BEFORE WEWITH HIM. HE WAS INVOLVED IN THE FRENCH THING. KNOW THAT. AND YOU KNOU THAT THE FRENCH. WERE IN HIM BECAUSE OF THIS. WHICHHOW HE

GOT TO KNOW CHDRBANIFAR

BAHRAMANI:

CAVE:

BECAUSE CHORBANIFAR HAS VERY CLOSE TOORD MISSED)).

HEY KNOU NOTHINC ABOUT HIS CONTACTS WITH CHORBANIFAR. he HAS NEVER SAID ANYTHINO TOjTHEM ABOUT IT. AND he SAYS IF WE'VE GOT ANY EVIDENCE. -THEVVtinitLn pc^py

INTERESTED IN HAVING IT BECAUSE THEY WOULD PURSUE IT FEW

words missed)Tnotmfcf '

xpECAUSE wf,?have placed albert under pressure on thewe think that if we cet at them quickly

bahramani:

ortion missed)) he says. an't do this.

he says. alberthe advisor.aveord missedehran incoordinate this whole thing with the various government orcanizationsportion missed)).

nintelligible))

bahramani:

ortion^missed)) he says albertord missed).

inc? things that haven't been discussed with us. and he says he doesn'teu words'hissed)).

bahramani:

nintelligible)).

((exchange missed))

((phoneecord tells party "we'll be fTNISHED ini right WmI:r[ yum

secord: north wants to talk. let's finish thii bahramani:

cave: ortiono be doneord missed)).

bahramani:

he says. "well why didn't they tell me this?""

and he said- "well. they can't officially tell ydu these things, but 71 can be7 unofficial ew words missed)).

CAVE:

SECCRD

IS OUR FAULT. I SUPPOSE. AND OMMUNICATIONS PROBLEM WHICH WE MUST SOLVE OR ALBERT. OR ANYBODY ELSE, HILL NOT BE ABLE IJHER^THAN MAKE PHONE CALLS

NTERPRETS^ )

V IF AYUBCOlNQ TO BE THE EXECUTIVE IN CHARGE. AND IF WE CAN

MEET WITH HIM FREQUENTLY HERE IN EUROPE. THAT WILLONG WAYTOWARDS SOLVING THE COMMUNICATIONS PROBLEM.

INTERPRETS)/

((INTERPRETS))

5E. THE SECURE COMMUNICATIONS.

WHAT HE'S SUGGESTING IS THAT BECAUSE THERE'S GOING TO BE AN AWFUL LOT OF TELEPHONING THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS, HE WOULD OF COURSE LIKE TO TAKE THAT THING BACK. BECAUSE THEY'VE ALREADYOUPLE gF,-DEDICATED TELEPHONE LINESEW WORDS MISSED)) THAT THEY CAN DSElfOREW WORDS MISSED) )

(HAT HE'S BRINGING UP IS HE SAYS THAT ANOTHER THING THAT WOULD BEORTIONO THE SITUATION, BUT HE SAID. -WHAT WE REALIZE IS AFTER TALKING TO YOU IS THAT WE NEED TECHNICIANS. WE'VE COT TO HAVEEW WORDSND HE SAID. "I'D LIKE TO MOVE" AS FAST AS POSSIBLE ONEW WORDE CONTACTED YOO,tf HE SAID. "THAT'SUGGESTED THAT SOMETIME NEXT YEAR YOUECHNICIAN IN. IT WOULD BE GREAT.

FINE. LET WE WILL TALK TO OUR PEOPLE ABOUT THIS TODAY AND COME BACK TO THAT SUBJECT LATER TODAY.

SECORD:

CAVE:

SECORD:

BAHRAMANI

CAVE:

THE COOD SOLUTION. OF COURSE. TO THIS PROBLEM IS FOR THE COMMUNICATIONS STATION TO BE SET UP EW WORDS MISSED)).

Iff

THAT'S THE REAL SOLUTION.

((INTERPRETS))

SATELLITE

((INTERPRETS)) OK. WHAT HE'S SAYING IS THAT "YEAH. THAT'S FINE. AND AS SOON AS WE GET THE TWO HOSTACES OUT. WE'LL GET THE 7PHONE THE PROBLEM WE'RE GOING,'TO HAVE WITHIN THE NEXT FEW DAYS

CAVE:

SECORD:

UNDERSTAND THAT. I AGREE WITH THAT.

THEY DON'T IT'S TOO MUCH. SECURE WAY OF TALKING TO US.

LET'S HEORK ON THIS PROBLEM

OLD ME AT THETOLD ALL OFDIDto de"involved IN THESE POLITICAL DISCUSSIONS. HE SAID.

'^^mh uP'q.mT-COMFORTABLE IN THIS ROLE.

*BnreEJBBErfl to be finished, now ue will cet some more

cave: secord:

cave: secord:

bahramani: cave:

professionals involved in this as ue cet this process organized. ue 're so short of people right now, it's terrible.

((interprets))

as soon as the president tells us to movem sure that sam and i can get the right people involved in this.

< <interprets))

and now ?nqrth? needs TO^TaLk about beirut and damascus. i'm not sureew words missed)).

{(phone rings)) secord says to party on phone. "okay, i think we're on the right road NOWj be rioht down. "

e says that; albert really doesn't understand theewack. in tehran. and that's part of the problem.

{(knock on there you finished?

just two minutes. two minutes?

yeah. hen. speaking toot solved

that problem. and we can come back to thi9 later* but wea problem, is that

so we agree? now north wants to talk to you about thehow wegovernment and our government. this is very important* i e'Tp fin qfj HJW 'go cet

NORTH:

((cave and bahramani chat in persian. good morning.

INAUDICLE. NORTH AHH

IVES

BEFORE UE START?

ND CIRCUMSTANCES DO TMEY WANT ANY CREDIT FOR RELEAC THE HOSTACES.

HIW-SAIB. ABOUT IRAN.

NOTHING SAID ABOUT IRAN. THEY THINK THE BEST THING TO DO IS TURN AiTHEH OVER TO THE SYRIANS. LET THEM RELEASE THEM. AND THEN SAYSOMETHING ABOUTEU WORDS MISSED)). CONSIDERING.NED ABOUT THE MCFARLANE VISIT. IF PRESIDENT REAGANTATEMENT THANKING IRAN. IRAN WOULD CONTRIBUTE TO 'MISSED)) CONDITIONS CREATED BY BRINGING OUT IN THE OPE. -ANE VISIT. EW UORDS HISSED) ).

BUT IF THE PRESIDENT SIMPLY SAYS HE WISHES TO THANK THOSE FRIENDL GOVERNMENTS UHO HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO

SECCRD: CAVE: SECORD:

THINK WE SHOULD JUST THIS DOWN

((PORTION INAUDIBLE. ))

ALBERT, WHAT WE'D LIKE TO DO IS JUST LET THE THREE OF US DEAL UITr THEM ON HOU WE'RE GOING TO COORDINATE THIS BEIRUT-DAMASCUS THING.

((MUTTERING IN THE BACKGROUND! ALBERT LEAVES THE ROOM. ))

YOU HERE OUT. HEALL FROM TEHRAN ABOUT THE 7HOSTA0ES7

AND THEY'VE BEEN 7TRYING TO? RELEASEONE OR TUO WORDSY SUNDAY AFTERNOON.

CAVE:

NORTH: -> CAVE: ^ NORTH:

CAVE: > NORTH:

J SECCRD:

MISSED))

DAMASCUS. THE OTHER THING HE'S SAYING IS THAT BECAUSE OF THETHEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BE ON THE TELEPHONE ^COORDINATING AND THAT POSSIBLY ?THEY? UON'TECURE' VOICE(PORTION MISSED)

T

J

MY INSTRUCTIONS ARE NOT TO TURN IT OVER UNTIL" WE'VE GOT. HELL. UE DON'T HAVE ALL THE PARTS TO IT .

NO. WE COT TWO SITTING UP IN. .

I DON'T OIVE THEM THE. . WE DON'T HAVEEW UORDS MISSED)).

IT'S IN GENEVA UELL THEY CAN OET 'EM. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS JUST ENTER THE CODES. BUTAVE TO GET THEM OUT OF GENEVA.

WELL. I'D LIKE TOAUCUS WITH THE THREE OF US ON THIS SUBJECT HERE WHEN UE'VE FINISHED

CAVE:

TO 0AHRAflAfc/t Tu.r

PHONE))

CAVE:

NORTH:

HAT HE HANTS TO KNOU NOUTO HIM HOU WOULD LIKE,TO HAVE THE HOSTAGES HANDLED, AND HE'LL SEE IF IT'St ISSIBLE FOR THEM TO DO IT THAT WAY.

IDEALLY. UE UOULD HAVE TERRY UAITE GO TO BEIRUT AND HAVE THE STAGES TURNED OVER TO HIM IN BEIRUT.

BAHRAMANI:

HERE'S UAITE NOU?

(INTERPRETS) )

BAHRAMANI:

(INTERPRETS))EW WORDS,MlESED))

THE REASON FOR THAT*-IS. BECAUSE IT MAKES EVERYBODY THINK IT'S

A HUMANITARIAN EFFORT AND IT PROTECTS YOUR SIDE AS WELL AS OUR SID? THE REST OF THE WORLD DOESN'T LOOK AT MCFARLANE; EVERYBODY LOOKS AT UAITE.

NORTH:

CAVE:

E SAYS YEAH, HEEU WORDSECAUSE WE CAN ALWAYS SAY IT ?UAS? BY MEANS OF WAITE. .

BAHRAMANI: CAVE:

NORTH: SECORD:

NORTH: ^WE CAN QEt"htmthERE THIS( INTERPRETS)I

bahramani:

ok.

pjdrth:

CAVE: BAHRAMANI

CAVE:

FEU UORDS MISSED)) ON'T KNOU? IF I CAN CETMESSAGE THROUGH TO THEM TO TURN THEM OVER TO UAITE v TODAY ORSENTENCE MISSED. >)

OCTOR IN BEIRUT WHO WAITE HAS TALKED TO BEFORE WHO KNOWS THE HIZBALLAH.

YOU CAN CET THEWO WORDS MISSED))?

CAN HAVE IT FOR YOUOUPLE OF MINUTES PROBABLY.

vb^bmhik

NORTH:

CAVE: NORTH:

((FEW WORDSRE YOU GOING Tp TURN THE CUYS OVER TO THE DOCTOR. TURN THEM OVER TO WAITE. OR WHAT?

((FEW WORDSIRECTLY WAITE CAN CET INTO WEST BEIRUT) THEY JUST DON'T WANT HIM TAKEN HOSTAGE BY SOME OTHER FACTION.

((INTERPRETS))

I DON'T WANT TO BE TAKEN HOSTAGE

IF IT'S TOO HARD FOR THEM. WE CAN MOVE THEM LATER TO DAMASCUS AS WELL.

BUT IT'S BETTER TO DO IT IN BEIRUT. IT REALLY IS.

PUT THE HOSTAGESfi irnPTFO amh takc THEM

WE 'LI

BAHR AMAN1 CAVE:

NORTH:

CAVE: BAHRAMANI:

QUESTION: DOES THIS PLAN SOUND REASONABLE

CAVE: E SAYS HE SAYS I'VE COT TO CALL TEHRAN TO CHECK ON THIS BECAUSE WHAT WE WORKED OUT IN TEHRANLAN TO TURN THEM OVER TO THE SYRIANS. AND THEY ALSO WANTED TO EMBARRASS-THE 7ENCLISH7. BECAUSE THE SYRIANS WOULD CET CREDIT^FOR THE RELEASE OF THE HOSTACES.

BAHRAMANI:

HE SAYSEW WORDSE DOESN'T THINKOULD LIKE YOU GUYS HAVING TO THANK THE SYRIANSREEINC THE HOSTACES'g.^

WE DON'T EVEN WANTEW WORDS MISSED) ).

HE SAYS HE'LL CALL AND CHECK ON IT AND SEE IF IT CAN BE DONE IN BEIRUT. IT'S 7THEIR? PLAN. THE PLAN. THE PLAN THAT THEY DREW UP IN TEHRAN IS THAT THEYEW WORDS MISSED)) TO MOVE THEM TO DAMASCUS.

THAT'SEAN IF THE ONLY WAY TO DO IT IS THROUGH DAMASCUS CO AHEAD AND DO IT THAT WAY.

ABOUT 3

((INTERPRETS))

((INTERPRETS)) HE THINKS IF HE CALLS THEM.

HOURS FOR THEM TO CET 7AN ANSWER?. AND THIS IS WhaT^HE'LL DO. HE WILL CHECK WITH TEHRAN AND FINDBECAUSE HE HONESTLY DOESN'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANY DIFFICULTY IN DOING win BEIRUT.

((INTERPRETS))

( (INTERPRETS)) HE SAYS ONE THING THAT 7CAN HAPPEN?EW WORDS MISSED)) BEFORE HE LEAVES. WE HAVE COT TO GET SOME SORT OF CIPHER COMMUNICATIONS OR SOMETHING ?IF? WE'RE GOINC TO HAVE TO BE OH THEOT ONCE HE GETS BACK TO MAKE SURE EVERYTHING

L TRY TO DO. D. ))

GOES SMOOTHLY. THIS IS WHY HE BROUCHT UP THE THING ABOUT TURNING THAT TELEPHONE OVER TO HIM. OR WE'VE COT TO WORK OUT SOME KINDOMPLICATED CODE. HE SAYS THAT ONE OF THE BIGGEST HEADACHES THIS TIME HE'S HAD TO BE ON THE TELEPHONEEU

'QUESTION IS. GETTING THE WHOLE DAMN THING TOGETHER.

N HAVE IT COURIERED FROM DOWN IN GENEVAHAT'S ALL WE NEED TO DO IS ENTER THEANOURIER MEET US IN FRANKFURT. IN THE MACHINE. PRESET THEM, EU UORDS MISSED )

I WILL TRY TO CET PERMISSION

E SAYS THAT OTHERWISE WE'RE CO INC TOJJAVE TO USE THE CODES THAT ALBERT DEVISEDORD MISSED) ^PARTICULARLY [FOR THE QUESTION OF

CAVE:

-

|AVE:BAHRAMANI:

SAID -YOU GUYS DON'T UNDERSTAND THE SITUATION INT'S EXTREMELY DIFFICULT FOR HIMEW WORDS MISSED)).

HOW ABOUTNTERPRETS))

t]

CAVE:

I

i i

I

HE SAYS , ON THIS QUESTION. HE SAYS THAT ONCE WEBY THIS ST ACE, THEY'VE ALREADY DONE SOME THINKING IN TEHRAN, AND THEY'VE PICKED SOME PEDPLE WHO UILLDIRECT CONTACTEW WORDS MISSED)DELATIONSEW WORDSOF THESE IS GOING TO BE AYUB. M PERSIAN TOHIS REAL NAME

FERIDUN MEHDIZADEH.

1 CAVE;

i

|

;AVE:

| BAHRAMANI ; v;

((PORTION MISSED>)

fa.

WHAT WERE YOU TALKING ABOUT? "

WHAT WE WERE TALKING I'M SORRY^WHAT HE ARE TALKING ABOUT IS THE PROPOSAL. SKED HIM WHAT'S FERIDUNAYUBREAL NAME? AND HIS PASSPORT NAME IS AYUB HG7.AFFARI.

BAHRAMANI: KE EPRESENTATIVE OF THE MAJLESWO WORDSPORTION MISSED) )

NTERPRElfillU HE IS NOT AN ELECTED REPRESENTATIVE. UHAT HE IS MAN UHO IS APPOINTED BY THE MAJLES TO BE THEIR REPRESENTATIVE ALL THESE VARIOUS SIX CENTERSEU WORDS MISSED)).

THE NEXT CUY IS THE MAN WE MET IN HA

OKAY. HE SAYS AS YOU KNOW. UEONFLICTEU UORDSE SAID THIS HAS BEEN DIVIDED UP INTO SIX MAJORPOBJJOtL MISSED) ).

HE AN ELECTED MEMBER?

EPRESENTATIVE FROM TEHRAN.

I CAVE: NORTH: BAHRAMANI:

(INTERPRETS))

A MEMBER OF THE MAJLES THEN.

N PERSIAN TO BAHRAMANIINAUDIBLE))

NO THIS CUY NAJAFA3ADI IS ALSO.HASHEMI'S SPECIAL ADVISOR ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND HE'S HASHEMIO BE THE

((WORD MISsfbTVii- -

BAHRAMANI: CAVE

NORTH: CAVE: NORTH: CAVE BAHRAMANI:

NEXT FOREIGN MINISTER IN THECURRENTLY HIS ADVISOR ON FOREIGNADVISOR ON FOREIGN

WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO

((INTERPRETS)):

HE SAYS THAT IT DEPENDS ON THE ELECTION. BECAUSE HE

A HASHEMI MAN AND IF THEY DO WELL IN THE ELECTION. THEY MIGHT MAKE HIM THE MINISTER OF HEALTH OR THEY MIGHT MAKE HIM SOMETHINO ELSE IT DEPENDS ON HOW THE NEXT ELECTION COES

' BAHRAMANI: I

j CAVE

WHAT YOU HUSTOTE CF IS THAT DR. AJAFABADI AR MORE POWERFUL POSITION IN THE FOREIGN HINISTR BECAUSE HE IS THE SPECIAL ADVISOR TO HASHEHI ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS.

OH, AMD

7HANDLES? THEIR RELATIO

BAHRAMANI:

((INTERPRETS)): AND HE SAYS IF.YOU ?FIMD 7ANYTIHE? THERE'S AN IMPORTANT COMMISSION. GOING ON IN TEHRAN, HE'S TAKING PART IN IT.

; BAHRAMANI:

I HE WAS VERY"OPPOSED TO THE SHAH, AND HE COT HIS PH

PAKISTAN IN INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS. AND IF YOU WANT TO CHECK HIM

. SECORD: ROMWONDERFUL.

WAS PROBABLY THERE WHEN THEY BURNEO THE EMBASSY IN ISLAMABAD.

AND IN THEIR

BAHRAMANI:

ANO HEEMBER OF THE

YEARE TOOK OFF HIS TURBAN.

'DID HE LEARN TO SPEAK ENGLISH SO

| EW WORDS MISSED) ).

BAHRAMANI:

NORTH:

i CAVE:

i

EW WORDS MISSED INTERNATIONALEW WORDS MISSED))

OK. RUN OVER ONCE

OK. HE IS THE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE MAJLES.

I CAVE

1

!AVE

|AVE:

; BAHRAMANI:

HE SAYS THAT THEEW WORDS MISSED)) IS KANCARLU. AND HE IS THE .

WHAT'S HIS REAL NAME?

((INTERPRETS)):

MDHSEN KANCARLU.

((INHEANCARLU MUST BE TURKISH. RIGHT? IS IT AZARI? KANCARLU MUST BE AN'^ZARI NAME.

HE DOESN'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT HIS BACKGROUND. HE'S ONLi KNOWN HIM FOR ABOUT ?TWO.OR^ORD MISSED) ). ?HE HAS A? VERY IMPORTANT POST BECAUSE.HE IS THE ADVISOR TO THE PRIME MINISTep ON SECURITY AFFAIRS. AND-HE^IS ONE OF THE REAL ?HOTHEADS?; HE

CAVE:

j

: NORTH:

AVE

;

;

i CAVE

WORDSEAH.

THAT RIGHT?

SO WE NOTICED.

HE TRAVELSASSPORT THAT SAYSNTERPRETS)):

E SAYS THAT. YOU KNOW, HE'S COT NOFEW WORDSNY PASSPORT HE WANTS. THAT'S BECAUSE PASSPORTS NOW ARE ISSUED BY THE PRIME MINISTER'S

THERE'S ONE MORE.

cave

OING TO TRY TO EXPLAIN IT FOR YOU?:

0THER 0UV TH*T'S AN ADVISOR. BUT YOU'RE NOT GOING TOm BUT HE'S OOINC Tfl PF IN CHARGE OF

"HAT HE ISSAYS THAT THEY HAVE DIVIDED ALL IONSEU UORDS MISSED) ). THEY HAVE THE PEOPLE THAT ON, AND THEN YOU ALSO HAVE THE STAFF WHERE THEY DO THE SAXE-THINC OUR STAFFUORD MISSED) ). ALL THE PLANS AND EVERYTHING ELSE AND THE THEORIZINO. AND THIS CUY IS THE CHIEF OF HASHEMI'S PLANNING STAFF.

E BAYS. YOUORDSRAN. HE'S INVOLVED IN EVERYTHING. AND HE HAS-BEEN IN CHARGE OF U. S. -IRANIAN.HEPLANNINGIRANIAN kEUWIONS.

HE'S ALSO IN CHARGE OF AIRO BAHRAMANI IN PERSIAN)OU CAN THAT BE? CHIEF OF AIR DEFENSE?

((IN PERSIAN)) YES... NO. DEFENSE OF ALL THE COUNTRY.

AIR DEFENSE OF THE EHTIREj.COUNTRY. DOES HE HAVE ANYHIS?

( (INTERPRETS) ):

((INTERPRETS)): HEN SOCIOLOGY

NO WONDER HE'S IN CHARGE OF AIR DEFENSE. OUR SYSTEM. IT'S JUST LIKE HOME.

((LAUGHTER< JOKE MISSED. ))

IS HE ANY RELATION TO CENERAL RUHANI OF THE SHAH'8 AIRNTERPRETS)):

NO.

I ALSO ASKED HIM IF HE'S RELATED TO ALI FEU UORDSOU DO YOU SPELL HIS.

. O BAHRAMANI IN PERSIAN) ): ORD

UHANI IN PARIS. DO YOU KNOW HIM?

11:

ERPRETS) HE SAYS THAT HIS UNCLE REALLY LIKES THIS GUY AND THINKSOF THE BRIGHTEST LICHTS IN IRAN. ANDEC 'GOOD CHANCE THAT HE'S COINC TOUTURE PRIME MINISTER OF IRANO BAHRAMANI IN PERSIAN) ): HOW OLD IS HE?

HE'SKANCAR LU?

HE DOESN'T KNOW. SENTENCE MISSED)).

HE SAYS KANGARLUEMAINDER OF

SECORD:CAVE:

BAHRAMANI:

NORTH:

i

;AVE:

YOU'RE TRYING TO SAY?MENTAL ACE IS ABOUTAUGHS))

^1

TELL ME MORE ABOUT WORD MISSED))

HE FACT THAt HE IS DOING THIS WITHEW WORDS MISSED)) AT^THTS JUNCTURE IS THAT THIS HAS BEEN KEPT SECRET FROM EVERYONEHE IS THE CHIEF OF THE COMMISSION FOR IRAN-AMERICAN RELATIONS.

BAHRAMANI;

*

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I

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EW WORDS VED BECAUSE IT

((INTERPRETS)) HE SAYS NOW IT'S VERY IMPO MISSED)) THAT NO ONE KNOW THAT THISILL CAUSE HIM ALL KINDS OF PROBLEMS

((INTERPRETS)) OK. THE OTHER NE OR TWO WORDS MISSED)) THISREASON WHY HE'SORDISPOSED TO DO THIS ISHAS PRO-AMERICANORD

( (INTERPRETS)) ENTENCE

HE WAS NOT AT ANY OF THE MEETINCS WE HAD^JN TEHRAN*

((INTERPRETS. LISTSANGARLU. . HAD I

(<IK PERSIAN)) KADI. AND ONE OTHER PERSON.

BAHRAMANI IN PERSIAN IF IT WAS MUSTAFAVI AND SAYS THAT HEMUSTAFAVI)) FORGOT HIS NAMEMPLYING THAT MUSTAFAVI WAS NOT HIS REAL NAME) ).

PERSIAN)) NO. THAT'S NOT IT.

'FORCOT^HTS NAME.

Alio: MR. SAID. "WHO? WHO ISAUGHTER FROM ALL)) r

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((INTERPRETS)) THIS IS AN IMPORTANT PROBLEM. HILE IT'SBE VERY COMPLEX. THE REASON IS THAT THIS HE SAYS THE THREE OTHER THEHADI EW WORDS MISSED)) THE ONLY GUY OF THE FOUR THATHE IS IN ANY WAY INVOLVED JNJHIS IS SAMITHE ONLY REASON FOR THIS WAS BECAUSE HE:HAD TO BE, IS ONE OF THE OPERATIVE

THE ONLY ONE OF THE FOUR THAT KNOWS THAT INVOLVED IN THIS?

IS SAMI 'I.

WMAT HE'S NOW SAYING' IS THAT WE^RE CETTINC IN*

I^cfuM0 T0 BE MORE-COMPLEX DISCUSSIONMISSED)). THAT'S WHY THEY'VE APPOINTED THIS

MAT HE UANTS0 MAVE A TINC. HES "JSSEDM WHAT WE HAVE TO DISCUSS UTW0 "ORDS MISSED)) THEY'RE GOING TO CET ON

Jn-UJI; SUBJECT8 WE'REDO YOU GUYS WANT TO DISCUSS. AND THEY WANT TO SAY UHAT THFY LI ANT Tfl niScySS

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DECIDE WHO TAKES PART IN THEPORTI ONEU1E, ASK THIS: DO ALL FOUR OF THOSE MEN TRAVEL OUTSIDE THE

SKS IF WHEN THEYEETING ALL FOUR MEN COULD

COURSE THEY WANT TO KEEP HIM FREE FROM THE :SEHR EE? GUYS THAT DON'T KNOW HE'S INSTANCE. SUPPOSE FOR INSTANCE THAT ?IT'S DECIDED?OEETING TO DISCUSS SOMETHINO WHICH ETJfl-SAY FOR INSTANCEFEW WORDS MISSED)). OUPLE OF DAYS BEFORE THIS MEETING TAKES PLACE. EITHER IF WE HAVE SECURE PHONE COMMUNICATIONS WITH HIM. OR IF NOT HE WILL COME OUTEW WORDS MISSED)) ON THE PHONE. OR HE'LL COME OUT AND MEET WITH WHOEVER WEONE OF USFEU WORDSTHREE OF US OR TWO OF US. AND WHAT THEY WILL DO IS THEY WILL TELL US THE SUBJECTS THEY WANT TO DISCUSS AND THEY WANT FROM US WHAT SUBJECTS WE WANT TO DISCUSS AT THIS MEETING. AND THIS WILL DETERMINE FOR THEM WHO'S OOING TOHE MEETING. HE SAYS IT MIGHT BE DECIDED HELSO TAKE PART IN THE MEETING. HE SAYS THAT HASN'T BEEN DEC! D< YET. BUT BASED ON WHAT WE WANT TO DISCUSS. THAT WILLOU KNOW, THE CONTENT OF THE PEOPLE WHO COME TO DISCUSSTRAILS OFF)). BUT HE SAYS IF THEY DON'T SUPPOSIHO IT'S DECIDED OKAY, LET'SUBSEOUEWT MEETING TWO UEEKS FROM NOW ' OUPLE OF DAYS BEFOREEU UORDSN9. UE'LL DO IT IF NOT HE WILL COME OUT AND SAYHE SUBJECT THAT THESE GUYS WANT TOOUR SIDE WANTS TO DISCUSS. EW WORDSHE AMERJCAN SIDEEU^WORDS MISSED)). THEN HE'LL TAKE THAT BACK AND THEY UILL MAKE-SURE THAT THEIR PEOPLEEU WORDS MISSEC DISCUSS THIS.

OKAY. UESS I'VE COT TWO QUESTIONS. THE PRESIDENT IS ANXIOUS TO CET ON WITHWE HAVE TALKED?. YOU KNOW. ABOUTEU WORDS MISSED)). POLITICAL DISCUSSIONS WEWO WORDS MISSED) ).

((INTERPRETS))

SENT OUR SIDE

AS OF RIGHT NOU. THE PERSON HE HAS CHOSEN IN THOSE DISCUSSIONS IS MCFARLANE.

((INTERPRETS))

((INTERPRETS)) HE SAYS, YOUS HIS POST? AD THE SAME POST THAT POINDEXTER HASOF.SECURITY

HE ISERY CLOSE PERSONAL FRIEND OFNTERPRETS))

. axis*

AND HE HANDLES MANY VERY SENSITIVE MISSIONS FfJH 1MbHAT'S WHY HE WAS THE ONE WHO ran^ rn TCHBAN

. NORTH;

,

f

i BAHRAMANI: AUCHS))

((INTERPRETS)) HE SAYS THAT WHAT HIS PROPOSAL WAS WHEN THEY WERE DISCUSSING IN TEHRAN. ANO HE WAS HIS PROPOSAL WAS THAT DR. HAJAFABADI AND ?HEWO WORDSO TO HASHING TON, BECAUSE IF HE TOLDEW WORDS HISSED)) ?YOU GUYS WERE PAYING? AND THEY SAID. WELL WE'LL THINK ABOUT IT AND LET YOU KNOW-EW WORDS MISSED)). BUT HIS PROPOSAL WAS THAT THIS MEETING BE IN WASHINGTON.

TH?: NAUDIBLE))

BAHRAMANI: CAVE:

((INTERPRETS)) HE SAYS THAT WHEN THEY WENT BACKORDHE SAYS. YOU KNOW. WE THOUGHT THAT THEYFEW THEY UERE HDVINC US AROUND ?TOUE WENT TODIFFERENT

BAHRAMANI

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S IT HAS BEEN DETERMINED THAT THEY SHOULD

(FEU UORDSE SAYS THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THATEU UORDSE'S GOTTEN CONDITIONALSAYS

?si[enDTHAT THE DEPUTY FOREIGNEMAINDER OF_SEHTENCF MITRED)).

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J .JAKE THEM ON THE SAME GUIDED TOUR THAT YOU COTiNTERPRETS

WHAT'S THAT?

HE SAID ?THIS IS ALL?AUGHS))

ItE SAID THAT THIS CUY WAS FIRST IN HIS CLASS AT ?m. I. S THAT RIGHT. MART MAN IN MATHEMATICS. THAT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO DO

((INTERPRETS)) EW WORDS MISSED)) ALSO ATHAT RIGHT? HOW OLD IS

ND HEERY CLOSE FRIEND OF HIS UNCLE'S. HDW OLD IS HE?

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BUT HIS UNCLE ISAMMAD?. NOTEW WORDS ,

HAPPENS AFTER. UH. . LET US ASSUME THAT SUNDAY AFTERNOON HEIdO ALL THIS COORDINATION AND THESE TWO PEOPLE AREH. WHAT DOES HE ENVISION THE NEXT STEP IS? WHAT do WE

((INTERPRETS)) HE'S QOIWC TO OIVE YOU HIS PERSONAL OPINION.

the m'dicine will be on that

((INTERPRETS)) OK. WHAT HE'S THINKING OF IS. HE SAYS THIS. WHAT THEY WOULDWHAT HIS PROPOSAL IS AND HOW HE SEES WE CO AHEAD WITH THEWUlC SPARES. THEY'LL PAY THE MONEY FOR

IT.

I C

THEM ?TO? SHIPAS WELL.

((MISSED))

((MISSED))

CH THAT'S RICH!. FEW WORDS MISSED.HEY'LLITH THEJ

((SENTENCEHAT DID I JUST SAY. YOU SAID THE NEXT STEP WOULD BE THE HAWKS

LET ME PAY FOR HAWK SPARES IS THE FIRST STEP.

SECCUD

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the hawk spares. ship the hawknterprets))

rV

((INTERPRETS) ) HE SAYSHE MONEY IS ALREADY IN FRANKFURT.

BUT HE SAID THAT SAMI'I IS COMING TO LISBON

I'LL CET INTO THAT. AND WHAT HE SAYS ?HE> WOULD LIKE TO DO REMAINDER OF SENTENCE MISSED)). I TOLD HIM THAT IT'S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT TO CET SOMEONE FEW WORDS MISSED)). WHAT HE

WHAT UE DON'T VE BEEN ON THE PHONENIGHT

ON TECHNICIANS. OX? I ECHNICIANM

TOLD THAT THEY ARE NOT ANXIOUS TO SHIPBEING HELD.

<INTERPRETS))

NORTH: HIS IS WHATTOLD HE: HE KNOWN. "

'ON't. IT UILL BECOME PUBLICLY

BAHRAMANI

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;

I TOLD HIM; HE SAID.ON'THINK IT WOULD

THE BRITISH INTELLIGENCE SERVICE IS GOING TO LEAK IT. YOU KNOW. THAT'S WHERE IT'S GOING TO COME CUT.

BAHRAHANI:

HE SAYS THAT ONE THING YOU SHOULD KNOWEW

WORDS MISSED) ) IS THATCLEARANCES? HAVE AIL BEEN TAKEN OVER BY THE PASDARS. THEY'RE UNDER THEIR CONTROL.

THE PILOT? HE'S THE ONLY ONE WHO WOULD ?HAVEEW WORDS MISSED) ).

BAHRAMANI; NOR TH: CAVE:

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PERSIAN)) DO YOUN PERSIAN)) YES. FORNTERPRETS))

((INTERPRETS)) Ht SAYSEW WORDS MISSED)) 4 PILOT AND HE WUOULD BE THE GUY THAT YOUR EXPERT WDULD HF rqvTACT WITH.

F SAYS DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT COMING OUT IN IRAN FEU UORDS MISSED)) MCFARLANF. AUGHTER))

FIVE MIL' ION COPIES OF HISEW WORDST IS NOT THAT WE DO NOT TRUST YOU OR YOURNOT THE PROBLEM.ROBLEM IS THAT IT'S PCLITICAL'ON OUR SIDE IF IT BECOMES PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE AND THERE ARE STILL HOSTAGES BEING HELD.

((INTERPRETS))

Hr SAYS WHAT HE'S ASKINO IS THAT YOU CUYS COT CM GO SACK TO WASHINGTON AND CONVINCE THE RESPONSIBLE OFFICIALS

THIi

WORDS MISSED) ).

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WE'VEORMER MILITARY CUYi ORJER^NAVff-GUY WHO HOW WORKS HUGHES?

I THINK SO. LISTEN. UE CAN CO BACK ANO TRY TO CONVINCE UASHINCTOJOT OF THINGS. 3UT AFTER SUNDAY WE WILL HAVE STILL AT LEAST ONE HOSTAGE THAT WE SCORE OR COUNT AGAINST LEAST ONE. I THINK THAT IT'S HICHLY UNLIKELY THAT WE WOULD BE ALLOUED TO SEND TECHNICIANS INTO IRAN. TO ISFAHAN, UNTIL UE CET THAT CUY OUT. SO UHY CAN'T UE DO SOMETHING TO CET THE OUY OUT? THAT'S WHATANT TO TALK ABOUT.

3AHRA'tANI:

SECCRD:

N PERSIAN)>

f TO^RESOLVE THAT TOO.

AN) ) OLITICAL ISSUE. UE THINK WE CAN BUT BEFORE WE'sEND HIM. WE HAVE TO CET THE

HE SAYS THATIND OF WAR OF NEHVES. HE SAYS THAT... FIRST HE SAYS LOOK, OU CUYS HAVEEW WORDS MISSED))AN'T CET INVOLVcD IN THAT BECAUSE I DON'T UNDERSTAND YOUR PROBLEMS AND YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO WORK ON THEM YOURSELVES. EW WORDSE SAYSEW WORDS MISSED)) MY UNCLEEW WORDS MISSED))

HAS BEEN TAKEN OH THE SUBJECT CF THF PHCEN

WORDS MISSED)) FEW WORDS M

HE'S PUT AN AWFUL LOT OF PRESSURE ON KANG ISbUE OF THE PHOENIX) AND HE SAYS IT'S

AR OF NERVES BECAUSE ?HIS

TALKED TO HIM ABOUT THE PHOENIX, AND HE SAYS THAT .

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?OUT?

but he says that this is one OF the twTnOS that hase's been taken with. and this was ONE of the REASON3 why he brought it up. to explainne word missed) ) here is the amount OF prowess to be made if we wouldechinicia a'jo just look at

UE UNDERSTAND THAT.

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KNOW THERE ARE STILL PEOPLE OUT TRYING TO BUY PHOENIXES. THEY OUGHT TO SAVE THEIR MONEY.

tiINTERPRETS))

ASTE OF TIKE AND

((INTERPRETS)) KE SAYS WE DON'T WANl ALL OUR WORKERS IN THE MINISTRY OF DEFENSE TO BE OUT OF WORK. AUGHTER)

LOOK. HE'S STILL NOT BEING RESPONSIVE TO THE POINT. I MEAN. WE UNDERSTAND TH? PRESSURE ON THE PHOENIX. WE'VE UNDERSTOOD ITONG TIME. BUT g'fJiv.KES NO SENSE TO ME WHY THEY WOULD

WANT TO HANG ONR JpT^GRAB THIS OTHERIT ANY

WAY YOUTHATIC. BIO PROBLEM FOR US.

IG PROBLEM FOR THtHT WHY NOT JUST CET HIM THE HELL OUT OF THERE AND LET US ROLL?

((INTERPRETS)>

((INTERPRETS)) HE SAYS "US DON'T CARE UHAT YOU SAY. "HE'S GOING TO TELL THEM WHEN HEACKORD MISSED)) THAT YOU PROMISED TO SEND HIM. BAHRAMANI

TACE THING. IM. EAN

fnaDwr WT TIC

BUT HE'S STILL NOT TALKING ABOUT THE CODA MINIMUM. TELL US WHERE HE IS ANDNEED TO CET TO WE NEED TO CE

THAT IS

THAT IS IMPORTANT. N PERSIAN ASKS BAHRAMANI

STATUS OF THE OTHERWHO WILL REMAIN AFTERRELEASED)

((ASKS CAVE THE TOTAL NUMBER OF HOSTACES)).

THERE ARE SIX LEFT RIGHT NOW. RIGHT?

YEAH. TODAY. YOU WANT THEIR NAMES? SUTHERLAND. JACOBSEN.

ANDERSON. CICIPPIO, REED. AND AUSTIN

TRACY

lK*TERPpETS)) HE SAYSEU WORDS MISSED) > IS THIS THE ONE TT LARRJJj*SPEAKES SAYSOOKSELLER? EU WORDS MISSED) ).

SEjEAH, HE'S

A5KE0 me, "HAVEN'T THE SYRIANS COT SOMETHING TO DO WITH

IT'S PROBABLY THE LIBYANS.

TELL YOU. YOU OUYS JUST TELL US WHERE THEYUE'LL CO GET THEM.

CAVE

((INTERPRETS)) HE SAYS THAT, THEY HAD TO SEND VELAYATI TO LIBYA TUO DAYS AGO. BECAUSE THE LIBYANS OFFICIALLY OBJECTED TO THE ARREST OF MEHDI HASHEMI EU WORDS MISSED)).

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BAHRAMANI; CAVE

SURE. CAUSE HE'S THEIR BOY. HE WAS THE LIBYAN AGENT. THATCASE. LET HE COYOU ONCE OFFERED TO TELL US

((INTERPRETS))

((INTERPRETS)) HE SAYS, "LET ME TELL YOU WHATEW WORDS IRAQIS KNOW WE DON'T HAVE ANY OPERATIONAL PHOENIXES. REAT DEAL OF RESPECT FOR TH* PHOENIX. IF WEF WE COULD JUSTOUPLE OF THESE AND IF IT WOULD HIT ANN IRAQITHINK IT WOULDERRIBLE BLOW TO THEIR MORALE. EW UORDS MISSED)) DZFEHQ CUREU- NOU, HE SAYS. "LOOK. I'LL TELL YOU WHAT I'LLSEND THAT TECHNICIAN TO HELP U3 WITH Tjfe PHOENIXES. ET THF THIRD CUY OUT, OTjCD'TEO. YOUREST OF THE OUYS ARE. ILL LEARN wfeflE THEY- ARE. UT WHERE THEY ARE. .

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DOESN'T KNOW WHERE THEY ARE.

((INTERPRETS))

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MANY FRENCH?

THeY'VE COT EIGHT. DON'T

HE'S CERTAIN THAT IF ANY PROCRESS CAN BEKUWAITI THING

HIM I THINK IT'S SEVEN OR EIGHT. I'LL GIVE

HE SAYS THAT ONE OF THE REASONS WHYFEW THE HIZBALLAHEW WORDSNE WHY THEY HAVEN'T BEEN RELEASED IS THAT THE FRENCH ARE EXTREMELY DECEITFUL. ANO. UH. THEY WON'T AGREE TOl EASE THEM?. BUT HE SAYS THAT THEY JUST LIE TO THEM ABOUT EVERYTHING.

THAT'S THE FRENCH. UHAT DID YOU EXPECTRENCHMAN?

( (INTERPRETS))

I MEAN. THEY WERE

E SAYS THEYVDIDN'T JUST LIE. MAJOR LIES. AUGHTER )fg^.(

THAT'S THE FRENCH.

THAT'S NORMAL.

HE SAYS THAT THE RELEASE JbfgTHE FRENCH DEPENDS ON SOMETHEORD MISSED)). BECAUSE THEY ARE SO FED UP WITH

WEiL, WE'RE INTERESTED IN THE FRENCH. BUT WE'RE MORE INTERESTED IN OUR PEOPLE RIGHT NOW. I MEAN. LET'S GET SERIOUS.

I CUT EVEN SEND

((INTERPRETS. THEN INOLD HIM TWO.

LOOK. I'LL GETECHNICIAN A'. RICHT? ON'T KNOW IF HE'S COINO TO BE THERE TUESDAY OR NOT. BUT. BY COD, WE'RE GOING TOECHNICIAN. HINK WHAT WE OUGHT TO DO IS THIS: UE OUCH! TO PLAN TOECHNICIAN ALONG WITH THE HAWK PARTS.

TELL HIM I'LL MAKEEAL. GIVE ME CNF "OF"4 'Si SHOOT DOW SOMt- AIRPLANES. I'LL CET AT LEAST THREE ON

1

((INTERPRETS))

WE'LL PUT ALI IN THE BACKNTERPRETS))

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i INTERPRETS)) HE SAID IT WOULDI TV IF YOU COT KILLED.

HOW WOULDET KILLED BY AN IRAQI PILOT? IMPOSSIBLE.

HOLD YOU AT YOUR WORD. BECAUSE.I'M DOING TO KNICIANS.

E SAYS. AS OF THE TIME HE LEFTE SAYS ABOUT THE ONE CUY. HE SAYS THAT HE'LL BE FREE. THE

p BETTER CET READY TO CO TO LEBANON. INTERPRETS))

OTHERSAID AS OF THE TIME

TWO?

WEIL. THERE ARES OF THE TIME HE LEFT TEHRAN.HEY WERE JUSTO FOR TWO. YOU KNOW. BECAUSE THE OTHER CUY WASE SAID THERE WAS NO WORD ON PRECISELY WHERE THEY WERE.

m

((INTERPRETS)) WHAT HE SAYS ISEW WORDSNE OF THE THINGS THAT'SEW WORDSOLITICAL AND DEFENSE PROBLEM WHICH IS THE CONTINUED ATTACKS ON CITIES BY THE IRAQI AIR FORCE. AND, YOUFOCUSED ON THE PHOENIX AS THE ONE WAY THEY CAN DOA80UI IT.

WELL, YOU KNOW, WOULD YOU DOAVOR AGAIN? AGAINORD MISSED)) RESERVATIONS. EU WORDS)) ECAUSE I HAVE NO IDEA WHATORD MISSED)) FLIGHT PLAN IS.

CK.

WHAT OOD IDEA ABOUT BRINGING THEM

IN WITH THE HAWKS IS THATPASO ARAN CAN TAKE CONTROL

OF TKEM WHEN THEY ARRIVE IN ?BANDAR ABBAS? (AFEW WORDS MISSED))

"PARTS.

HUM. UE NEED TO RESOLVE THE DISCREPANCYHE NOT WANT US TO SHIP

((INTERPRETS)) ELL. HE'S ASKED FOR ANOTHERE DON'T KNOW. WE'RE WAITING TO HEAR FROM THEM

((IN PERSIAN))W MANY MORE DO VCU MEED?

I IINTERPRETS) I KE SAYS THAT THEY'VE COT PLENTY OP HAWK PARTS. HE SAYS^WARMY'SERIOUS PROBLEM. HE SAYS THE CUY IBTTHE^MiNISTRY OF DEFENSE CALLED HIM THE NICHT BEFORE HE LEFT

S'

E REPRESENT THE ARMY TOO?

IE SAYS THAT WHEN ThEY COT THOSETHAT 1 3ARLV COT/THEY ALL WENT TO THE REVOLUTIONARY CUARD CORPS.

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60.

BUT THE QUESTION REMAINS. DO THEY WANT MORE TOWS OR HOT. THEY HAVE TO ORDER THEM.

OW. WASN'T THERE THAT

((INTERPRETS))

IN THE PROGRAM. THERE WAS ANOTHER GOING TOATER?

((CNF WORD HISSED)) I DON'T

WE SAID WE'DITH

THINK WE PLANNED ANYTHINO. BUT WE

THE PLAN SAYS ANOTHER SOOl WE COULD SEND MORE. IF WE'D CET THE HOSTACES OUT. IT DEPENDS ON WHAT ?THEY ORDER?.

-STAGES OXU^E'LL SENOILLION OF THEM. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS PAY^FORF THEM. AND IF YOU CUYS WOULD CET YOUR ACT TOGETHER. WE'D OPEN UP AN FMS ACCOUNT AND YOU'DETTER PRICE ON THEM.

((INTERPRETS))

IF WE OPEN At* EMBASSY

((OBVIOUSLY UNDERSTANDING WHAT NORTHO.IN THE IMMEDIATE FUTURE. THEY WANT TO

F YOUN EMBASSY) )YOU'RE JUST GOING TO CREATE ANOTHER HOSTACE CRISIS. GENERAL LAUGHTER)).

/;>

IN THE IMMEDIATE FUTURE. THEY'RE COING TO HAVE TO TELL US. EAN THAT'S WHY WE HAVE TO GET TOGETHER.NOW .HE .SAID AYUB WAS COMING TO LISBON. WE NEVER COT BACK TO

i

YOU SAID TO MAKE THE ARRANGEMENTS FOR AY

WELL. DO YOU WANT TO BRIN3 AYUB INTO WASHINGTON?NTERPRETS))

((IN PERSIAN)) YES. THERE IS NO PROBLEM WITH THAT.

(UNUT FOR THAT SAMEEW WORDSHAT DO YOUEW WORDSORE TOWS OR HAWK PARTS?

BAHRAMANI.

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BRING

k^CANSWEKlNC^CAVE'S LAST QUESTION)). NO. THE STli'Ji MMj loCRAM HAS TO BE CARRIED OUT. EMAINDER HISSED))

aPPARENTLY INTERPRETING THE LAST PART OFTHAT NINE-POINT PROGRAM?

WANT ME TO CET IT?

ISERSIAN COPY OF IT?

WE CAVE HIM ONE. REMEMBER?

WE DID?

YEAH.

I 'M LOCKED OUT OF MY

E'S LEAVING TOMORROW AT TWO. WHY DON'T WE BREAKEW MINUTES?

YEAH.

AND IF HE HAS TO CO TO DAMASCUS. HE GOES ?T0 DAM ASCI

((PORTION MISSED)) I COULD HAVE CCMt INUTES ACQ. WELL, YOU OUGHT TO GO. WHEN IS HE GOING BACK. NTERPRETS))

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NORTH. CAVE: NORTH; CAVE"

BAHRAMANI: CAVE:

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BAHRAMANI:

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THIS EXPERIENCE. LOOK. UH. NSf

in TODAY. TOMORROU'S FRIDAY. RIGHT? TO THE STATES

RIOHT. YOU'VE COTIGURED OUT.

I UANt'to'cET BACK TO THE STATES. I'VE COT SO MUCH

NOTHER THING THAT YOU'VE COT TO FOLLOW UPEW WORDS MISSED) )

( (FEW WORDS HISSED) )

M

YEAH.

Of-JE STEPIME, MY FRIENDS.EW WORDSN PERSIAN TO BAHRAMANI)) DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT.

Y^ANT

HATANT TO KNOW IS SHOULD THEY MEET WITH THEM/HIM OR NOT?

( (ONE OR TWO WORDS MISSED)) YES.

((IN PERSIAN)) YES. MEET WITH HIM. NO PROBLEM.

AND TELL HIM JJST THE SAME THING THAT WE'RE SAYING.

((IN PERSIAN) ) DON'T YOU WANT SADDAM TO LEAVEPOWER) )?

&&&

OF COURSE. BUT WE DON'T WANTEWITH THE ARABS. EW WORDS MISSED))

IF THE RELATIONSHIP COES FORWARD LIKEISSED))

IF IT GOES

33rf1 %

WO WORDS MISSED))THE GUYS JffKT THEY WERE SUCCESTINC TO TALK .. CO TALK TOWORD MISSED)) WOULD BE

HIM.

YEAH, AND HEEU UORDSERY VERY SERIOUS PERSON.

HE'S OK.EW WORDSQUALL Yr-RIOHI?

((MISSED))

YOU KNOW HIM

ALI. IF THIS THINO GOES WELL AND WE CET OUR PEOPLE BACK. WE'LLMPHASIS ON "WE'LL")) TALK TO THE SAUDIS. YCU TALK WITH THEM, Wb'LL TALK TO THEM, EW UORDS MISSED)).

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((INTERPRETS))

ALK. OT OF TALK.

HE PROPOSAL

MAYBECAN CALL BACK ?OM WHEN AND WHERE?.

Il'S OOINO TOOT DO YOU WANT TORE' YEAH. I'VE COT TO MAKE SOME ARRANGEMENTS. WE HAVE TO DO SCMf PHONE CALLS.

((INTERPRETS) )

((INTERPRETS)) H- SAYS THEY'RE COIMC TO CALL HIM BECAUSE EW UORDS MISSED)).

ER THING IS

CjL^WE^LL BE BACK. I'VE COT TO CALL AND MAKE CERTAIN ARRANGEMENTS

CNE OF THE THINGS WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO DO ON CET .

[ma

CET ?ABE?N UHICH SHIPMENT?

((FEW WORDS MISSEU)) ON THE NEXT EU UORDS MISSED) I

((FEU UORDS MISSED) ) GET THE HAWK PARTS AND GET THE MONEY HE SAYS THE MONEY'S HERE.

THAT'S FINE.ON'T THINK HE'S GOING TO NEED CUITE AS MUCH AS HE SAYS. BECAUSE WITHOUT PARTT'S CONSIDERABLY

CHtAPER.

north: cave:

bahramani cave:

cave: bahramani:

ahramani:

I^^be^fCHTjiback. eaves the room.the factories don't make that anymore.

((few words missed.t's very expensive. is aboutand more, much more.

ew wordsSbjssed)).

we don't wantew wordse don't need it. we want the 7wire? that attaches to the hawk. its pricerials.

((laughs))

callsndpeaks briefly on the phone in persian. cave and bahramani speak "quietly.

((end

((TAPE BEGINS WITH SOUNDS OF SOMEONE MOVING ABOUT THE ROOM* PERSONS CONVERSE IN PERSIAN IN THE BACKGROUND. -BAHRAMANIELEPHONE CALL. TELLS SOMEONE TO CALL 'THAT PERSON" AND ASK" HIM WHETHER OR NOT HE HADESSAGE TO "HIM" iNEl). THEREONG PAUSE DURING WHICH THf PARTY. ON THE OTHER END APPARENTLYALL TO -THAT)N ANOTHER PHONE! DURING THE PAUSE. CAVERS VOICE CAN BE HEARD SPEAKING WITH BAHRAMANI. BUTS IS INAUDIBLE. THEN THE PARTY ON THE OTHER END. APPARENTLY UNSUCCESSFUL IN CONTACTING -THATOMESHE.PHONE. BAHRAMANI TELLS HIM TQ KEEP TRYING TO" MAKE THEjCOJ/TACT AND THAT HE WILL CALL HIM BACK IN ANAHRAMANI ASKS FOR THE PHONE NUMBER OF 7HAJJI?. BAHRAMANI ASKS ABOUT THE WHEREABOUTS OF MR. SA'ATCHIYAN. THEN SAYS GOOD-BYE. >)

SOMEONE. APPARENTLY HAKIM. KNOCKS ONRICHARD? f .

3

9 o

IS TURNED ON. BAHRAMANI MAKES ANOTHER PHONECALL. ASKS FOR MR. SA'ATCHIYAN. HE'S NOT THERE. ASKS IF "HAJJ ACHA- IS THERE. HE SAYS HE JUST COT HAJJ AGHA'S NUMBER FROM HI8 OFFICE AND THAT HIS OFFICE HAD SAID! THAT HE MAS SUPPOSED,:JO BE THERE. HAJJ ACHA HAD LEFT. BAHRAMANI ASKS IF ANY OTHER OF "THE LADS" ARE PRESENT. THEY ARE NOT. BAHRAMANI HANGS UP. )>

((BAHRAMANI TELLS CAVE. -HE SAYS TO CANCEL ND TO ADJUST THE PRICE.- CAVE TALKS ABOUT ALBERT REMOVINO THE ITEM FROM THE LIST. LONG SILENCE. HUMMING. >)

((TAPING IS APPARENTLY INTERRUPTED IS TALKING ON THE PHONE))

ecord:

he CHECKEDSTILL LIVING THERE.

I*EN KE RETURNS THISYOU

ttHB im the ROOM)) OXEVEN:

1IT SST1LLORTION MISSED)) YOU SHOULD/TELlihfr

ALL HER EW"ISSED)). C6%HECKYOU'RE NOT COINO TOEW WORDS MISSED.

scheduled

ant3 the/:"

be there. tunnecessaryill

LOST, AVE THE BROCHURE TO LARRY ROYERORDHERE NOW. M HUNG UP ON THIS OTHER CLASSIFIED PROJECT. IT'S JUSTRITICAL TURN, AND I'M NOT COINC.AS

tO DOWN THERE THTS AFTERNOON TO JOIN UP WITH THEM. TO MEET MY AIRPLANE. AND I'M NOT COINCONLY WAV TO STOP HIM FROM TAKING

JflSi IS1 FOR ME TO QUICKLY SENDELEX SAYING ILL ARRIVE THERE TOMORROW. ILL CONTACT MR. TELEPHONE TONIGHT. OKAY? APOLOGIZE PROFUSELY. TELL HIM NOT COMING ON THE ALITALIAS SCHEDULED.

jl'LL TALK TD^yOU.LATER THIS AFTERNOON. AND YOU MIGHT ASK HIM >T0 ApCXNOWLEDOEVRECEIPT ANO SEND THFIR TELEPHONE NUMBER. I'D

SURE"HE SAME.

WELL.jlt.REMENDOUSLY FAST TRACK

RICHT/NOH^Sa I'LL CET BACK TO YOU THIS AFTERNOON. THANK YOU. GOOD-BYE. OEW WORDS MISSED. HAKIM LAUGHS)) NOW WHAT SHE'S LIKE. DON'T YOU? I'MNOW. I'M

AFRAID I KNOW THFDON'T YOU WALK WITH ME? I'LL OO-

UPSTAIR3 AND CET MY BAG. OOR CLOSES)

(O POSSIBLY INTERRUPTED AGAIN. CONVERSATION INCAVE AND HAKIM. HAKIM ASKS ALIUESTION. CAVE, HAKIM, AND BAHRAMANI TALK QUIETLY INISOLATED PHRASES

((CAVE AND BAHRAMANI TALK ABOUT. ONLYAUDIBLE. )

((END

*3

((CHATTER CONTINUES BETWEEN HAKIM. BAHRAMANI. AND CAVE-IN PERSIAN. MOSTLY. INAUDIBLE. THREAD OF CONVERSATION CANNOT BE FOLLOWED. BUT IT APPEARS TO BE MOSTLY PERSONAL RATHERTHAN BUSINESS RELATED. MUCH JOKING AND LAUGHTER. SECORD ENTERS THE ROOM. THEN:))

we:

-:cord:

-kim:

.kim:

YOU THINK WE CAN CET THE MESSENGER MERE TO BRINGMISSED).

I. DON't THINK

EW WORDSTHEY TOOKHAT EW WORDS MISSED) ).

no. listen. we talked about this fort's not possible to cet the codes here. moreus'efy,our units in the unitedordtoo. and we don't have them yet. ew days,

we have to.

UILL HAVE THEM. NOU. THERE'S ANOTHER

EETING AGAIN

THAT'S WHAT I JUST TOLD HIM.

hortly. and we will have the codes installed. they'll BE cood for nine weeks of operation. 7THEY? won't have to mess with them.

((interprets for bahramani))

3 j

3

'3

4&

secord:

3ahramani!

secord:

:ave: 3ecord:

aahramani:

3ecord:

VlKIH:

5ec0rd:

<akim:

secord:

cave: (AKIN:

RECORD:

:ave:

secord:

ecord: ave:

AND BETWEEN NOW AND NEXT WEEK, WHEN WE CIVE YOU THE SECURE COMMUNICATIONS, WE WILL HAVE TO USE THE GUARDS* CODE. MY GUARDS' CODE.

a a

NORTHRE GOING TO LEAVE VERY SHORTLY. HE KNOWS THIS. 'E AREfCOlNC TO CO PICK UP OUR KAN AND TAKE HIM DOWN THERE.

NTERPRETS FOR BAHRAMANI. SAYS NORTH AND SECORD ARE OOINO TO* BEIRUT. ))

^AND^WEWIlRoHE BACK PROBABLY TOMORROW FROM BEIRUT. ANJD, WELLEAVE THAT OUY THERE; AND THEN IF WE HAVE TO MOVE HIM. THEY'll MOVE HIM.

E WANTS ME TO GO ESTABLISH CONTACT WITHFEW WORDS MISSED. ))

HE WANTS YOU TO CO?

I; willo london.

YEAH. ANT TO

WHEN WILL HE OET BACK?

YOU'LL COME TO LONDON?

YEAH. LL COME BACK FROM BEIRUT, PROBABLY

1

HE SAID LET THE CUY DROP YOU OFF IN LONDON. EW UORDSCRATCH. TELL HlHtjTOWORD MISSED) ) THIS. EW WORDSOW YOU CANLIGHT DIRECT TO WASHINGTON* AND YOU CAN WAIT FOR ME THERE*

I'VE

OKAY. GOOD. SO Z WILL GO TO LONDON. TOO. TOMORROWURVIVE BEIRUT TONIGHT. WITH ALL OF THE MORTARS. GOT TO CET OUT OF THIS BUSINESS. I'M TOO OLD FOR THIS BUSINESS.

( (FEW WORDS MISSED

DOES HE UNDERSTAND IF WE HAVE TO MOVEUR AMBASSADOR ORD

( (interprets))

AUGHS)) I'M THE SMART ONE.

NO. THE CHARGE D'AFFAIRES REMAINS IN DAMASCUS. HE USED TO

((INTERPRETS))

ND. AMBASSADOR IN BEIRUT WORKEDSjttfm((INTERPRETS) i

(AL CONVERSATIONS COINO ON AT ONCE))

SECORD: CAVE:

IF WE DON'T CET OUT. IF UE DON'T CET OUT OF THERE. I'LL HAKE SAM. HOLD YOU HERE.

NTERPRETS) >

< (HAKIM IBHONE CALL TO THE AIRLINE ABOUT THE CHANCE IN SECORDLANS. ))

ONVERSATION ABOUT CETTINO READY TO LEAVE. ))

SECORD:

ARE WE DOING NOW?

I'M COINO TO FRANKFURT. THE MAN'S COMINO FROM LONDON. WE UILL MEET hTN"AT FRANKFURT. WE WILL GO STRAIGHT TO BEIRUT. ?WE? ARE GOING TO CYPRUS. AND. ARMY HELICOPTER.

TO BEIRUT.

((MORE CONVERSATION ABOUT TRAVEL ARRANGEMENTS. MOSTLY INAUDIBLE. ))

CAVE:

>ECORD:

EXPENSIVE

WE DIDN'T GIVE HIM THE BILL YET FOR HIS

NEITHER DID I.

((INTERPRETS FOR BAHRAMANI. LAUGHTbR)>

DOES HE UNDERSTANDRAND NEUHEY'VE NEVER HAD THESE MAPS BEFOREl THESE ARE 7BRAND? NEW MAPS.

ENTERS THE ROOM. TO

MORE CHATTER ABOUT GETTING READY

CAVE: SECORD: NORTH: SECORD:

IF HEET TAKEN HOSTAGE IN BEIRUT TONIGHT. YOU GET TO STAY HERE UITH HIM.

((INTERPRETS. LAUGHTER))

WE'LLRADE.

THERE'S MORE THAN ONE WAY OF PLAYING THIS CAME. ,

ALI. Li: UILL CALL YOU TONIGHT. DID YOU KNOW

((MUCH CHATTER AND LAUGHTER IN BACKGROUND ROM BOTH SIDES SEEM TO BE INIS APPARENTLY AN EXCHANCE OF OIFTS. ERSIAN IN ENGLISH. "THIS IS FOR YOU. - THERE IS A OF PAPER AND HAKIM SAYS. AINTING QOM. THERE IS TALK ABOUT PISTACHIOS. MORE CHATTER DOOR CLOSES.

*ND TAPE

uiLlA-DAD. HIKE POSITION IS SUCH THAT IT IS PICKING UPAIRLY HELL. BUT IRANIAN SIDE IS rOM THE MOST PART UMNTLLLIOIBLE. AT TIMES. PERHAPS WHEN PARTICIPANTS SIT fl. CAM NOT HEAR. PARTICIPANTS EITHER. >

TTINC

GIFTS.

GEORGE CAVE AND ALBERT HAKIM.

EVERYONE TALKING AT ONCE. BAD EL.

UP OF SCHEDULE. ARRANGING FOR DINNER. INTRODUCTORY PIOUS PLATITUDES

TAPE 2. JUST BACKGROUND NO

THE HIKE Art'EATIS TO DE IN THE ROOM OF ONE OF THE PERSIANS. WHEN MEETING IS NOT GOINO ON. CAM SOMETIMES HEAR PERSIANS TALKING SOFTLY Ml HHIBPCRING. CAN HEAR AIRPLANES TAKING OFF ANDO.

T. V. . DRAUERS AND DOUflS CLOSING. ETC.

ACKGROUND NOISE. FAINT CONVERSATIONS IN PUT NOT LOUD ENOUGH TO DISCERN EVEN

AT HUUGHLY MIO-FOINT INSOriE AMERICANS ENTER AND BEGIN TO CHAT. ORDERING LUNCH FROM <ROOMj SERVICE.

TAPE 1 CHATTER. RE HASHISH. TOBACCO. TRIP BY ONE OF PERSIANS TO AFGHANISTAN. (OIE WHO was FROM THE REVOLUTIONARY GUARDAS IH IRAO WITH KHOSRO BARZANI. ONE OF MAS'UU BARZANIEN. TELLS OF TRAVFLS IN IRAO WITH BARZANI KURDS.

APR IVES (HATTER. JOKES. SUDDENLY. AS FOLLOWS:

THEN THE REAL TALKS BEGIN RATHER

ks-

ELIEVE THAT IR. HAS THIS RESPONSE TO YOURA

I WANT TO IICAR THAT. DUT I UANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT THEREAIR AMOUHI OF ANXIETY OH OUR SIDE AS^O' WHETHER OR NOT we AHE HEADED IN TIE RIGHT DIRECTION. OUR COAL; AS we said-'in THE MEETINGS IN WHAT I SAID WHENjl was IN TEHRANAND IIACFARLANE EAIU AL TgHT STRATEC iTrtiETAT 1qnshjp

WITH. BETWEENn WHICH. wftg UAR-dTT

HONORABLERESERVE .THE TCRRl TOR 1AL SOVEREIGNTY. RECOGNIZINC THaTThE IRANIAN REVOLUTIONDEED FACT. AND GET ON WITHAND OURS IN THAT PART OF THE WORLD. AND IT Oil THE BASIS (IF RECIPROCITY. OF COURSE.

I: HAKIM:

sami i: hakim:

vcrtlrc hestart thems tonight, to the level/of* establishing the case. and an an intndduction, he responds to the statement that vow hade and he would like io ift hashe contention because they fully icosulze hou sensitive this issue is. therefore he wantsabout ayjihroduction of who he is and who they are and win; to the level that he can.

FftOfTfflE eafly stages of the relationship of the two countries, especially .this croup that they san traces of deep interest in estaplishing the relationship and they have enough evidence to observe and siudy the relationship. they cave it valuable they classified italued effort.

hakim:

cave:

secord:

samii: hakim:

secoro: samii

hakim:

SAMII: HAKIM:

, SAMII:

THE SPARKS OF THE RELATIONSHIPITTLE BIT TOO MUCH FOR THE DEPTH OF THE FELATIWSHIPATHAr EXISTED.

AT HE MEANS IS THAT THEREIFFERENCE IN THE SPEEDj . THEY rCPCEJVE THINGS COINO AHEADACE FAR GREATER THAN THEY COULD COMPREHEND OR TAKE INTO ACCOUNT.

THE SPARKS WERElowOUNDATION. THERE WAS NO FOUNDATION FOR THAT MUCH SPARK.

AS YOU KNOW, THE RELATIONSHIP GOES FAR BACK AND HAS BEEN

PER EFFORTS FOR THE RELATIONSHIP GOES AS FAR BACK

ASA'AD IN LEBANON .

RA'ADRENCHHE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH US.

0 FOCUS

I KfKiN THAT HF IS NOT WORKING FOR YOU. BUT HIS EFFORTS WERE THE BEGINNING OF IPJR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE WESTERN WC"

Tltr" Tl'RP' "A! TE CAME INTO THE PICTURE.

ALI. ONE POINt THAT I WOULD REALLY LIKE EVERYOT< ON AS TO WHERE IR. SAN! I IS GOING IN GIVING YOU HISTORY OF HOW THE OPENING INTO THETARTED, AND WHERE HE PERSONALLY WAS AND WHY ALONG THE LINE OF INTRODUCING HIMSELF AS TOdlJICRPREIS THIS FOR ALI BAHRAMANI.E WAS INVOLVED FROM RA'AD'S TIl-E.

SAMII:

CAVE: HAKIM:

SAMII

HSADAATIAN.ADAATIAN ISIRAN'S AHDASSAOOR IM LONDON.

E IS COIN.M VARIOUS NATIONS BECAMJU PARTICIPATE:

riOMS BEGANPOINT

f;Ht

fvTATHE UPSHCLUQF THIS WAS THAI AND

E

ihat in_ftp'r also,

hakim:

AT ANY RATE. THE RESULT OF ALL THESE EFFORTS THAT HE REFERRED TO AND THE INVOLVEMENT OP CHOnBANIFAR AND KANGARLU AND OUR CROUP. all THESE CAUSED THE CREATION OF THE RELATIONSHIP AS IT DID AND AS VOU abe AWARE. AND IN ADDITION TO THAT QSeU (TRIP (IT m nn th .lA.fggfcTji i IS UNDERERATION PENDING THE DEVELOPMENT OF CERTAIN ISSUES.

$TAT6

Aft

HAKIM:

SAMII: HAKIM:

CAVE:

HAKIM:

CAVE:

SAMII: HAKIM:

He'savS YOU MVS, UNDERSTAND AMD RECOGNIZE THE FACT THAT UHEN ALL THE! ISSUES ARE IN PROCESS

m

THAT-l

HE SAYS YOU .WELL RECOGNIZE THAT-WHEN ALL THESE ARE HAPPENING THE DIFFERENT EFFORTS OF ESTABLISHING THE RELATIONSHIP IT IS ONLY PROPER FW THEIR GOVERNMENT TOOOPERATIVEEADOUAPfFR TO NOT ONLY EVALUATE ALL THESE EFFORTS BUT ALSO LKARII fcNOUCH AOOUT THEM THAT THEY WOULD DE ABLE TO CHOOSE OUT OF ALL THESE THE BEST ROUTEHAS IS THAT MOT ONLY THESE WERE TO BE EVALUATED THESE EFFORIS BUT ALSO CURRENT EVENTS THAT CREATED QUESTIONS WITHIN THE NATION SUCH AS' THE CONTACTS OF (H. K. ) WITH THE YOUNC SHAH AS HIS CWEULTANT. HE'S

AN ADVISOR REALLY.

THESE HADE ALSO EVALUATED.

THEYERIOUS PROBLEM IMN TJTHER WORDS THEYROUP TO TRY TO ASSESS ALL THIS BUT THEYERIOUS PROBLEM IN ASSESSINC THE VARIOUS OVERTURES TOGETHER WITH SUCH THINGS LIKE AIDING THE YOUNG SHAH

IN THE PROCESS if SELECTING AND HANDPICK THE-CREAM OF fR^ttlOP OF THESE OVERTURES AMD ALSO EVALUATING THE VARIOUS EVENTS. AS HE IS SURE WE ARE AWARE UF. THEY CAMEEFINITE CONCLUSION THAT THE BEST WAY TO APPROACH THIS WOULD BE TOIRECT CONTACT BECAUSE THIS WOULD ELIMINATE ALL MISUNDERSTANDINGS, MISINTERPRETATION ALL INTFR-.'FrT frillun of

TAPE 9

THAT IS REFERRING TO THE DIRECT CONTACT THEY HAD TO THE NATURAL PLACE TO START WAS TOCHOOSE ANN INTEREST. IT WAS ANS^lS'S BACK AND ANALYZING AND TRYING TO EVALUATE OR tOLVE THE HUGE AND DEEP DIFFERENCES.

RING INFORMATION FROM ONE PARTY TO ANOTHER.

YOU CAN WELL WIERSTAND THAT LIKE THAT YOU WERE ALSO HAMMOCK HILAR EFFORT IH CHOOSING THE RIGHT SEGMENT OF! c, YOUR CONTACT THEY HAD TO DO THE SAME EVALUATION AS TO WHICH WAY TO CI ABOUT ESTABLISHING THEIR CONTACT

HAKIM:

he SAYS HE CAN'T DESCRIBE HOW'HUCH IN COMMON WE HAVE jh COMMON bui HERE COMES THE DIFFERENCES^THERE ARE. THEYANDICAP THAT we DIDN'T. WHAT YOU NEEDED FROM THEM WERE HOT COMPLETELY WITHIN THEIR REACH . IT WASISTANCE AND EVERYTHING THAT YOU HAD THAT THEY WANTED YOU HAD IT IN YOUR REACH BUT THEY RECOGNIZED THAT THERE WERE OTHER HANDS THAT WOULD NOT PERMIT YOU TO HAND THESE THINGS OUT TO THEM ASD, BUT AT LEAST THEY WERE WITHIN YOUR REACH AND WHAT YOU WANTED THEY WERE ifcJT-lttlTHIN THEIR REACH.

i;

COULD ONLY DEMONSTRATE THAT THEY WILL DO THE BEST THEY COULDHE AREASAT THEY HAVE INFLUENCE AND YOU CAN WELL SAY THAT YOU WITNESS THEIR EFFORT IN THE AREA THAT IN LEBANON WHERE THEY HAD SOKE INFLUENCE

WERE WATCHING THESE EFFORTS THROUGH MAGNIFYING CLASS

HAKIM:

PA"

IN EVALUATING WRGENUINELY.:

WANTING TO ESTABLISH THISFEy/wENT MOT,'? ONLY TO THE EXTENT OF ACCUMULATING THE VARTDOS SICNS THAT WE NEnE SENDING THEM THROUGH DIFFERENT SOURCES BUT THEY, WENT THROUGH FUCH DETAIL OF EVALUATING THE VERBACE THJ TERMINOLOGY USED IN SENDING THOSE MESSAGES IN ORDER NDERSTAND US VETTCR

v'ATAIIEPE CTUALLY GHQyi.D

am.

rri'fv

HAKIM:

WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE

NSHIP HDU NOT DEVELOP LIKE IT WOULD BETWEEN TWO

:RCHrtHIS ANO YOU HAD TO START TRADING AND DEALING WIIHOTHER. THEY WANTED TO MAKE SURE THE RELATIONSHIP fc WLD DK ESTABLISHEDEVEL THAT YOUR OBJECTIVES AND COAL 'WOULD BE^CMBTHINC BEYOND AND HI CHER THAN TRADING.

ALI WANTS TOHAT MR. 5AMII HAS BEEN SAYING. HE SAID WHEN HE GOT TUG ASSIGNMENT DF EVALUATING ALL THE EVENTS OF THE PAST ANDDFILES AND READ EVERYTHING. AND CET THE INFO FROM |IR. SAMII. HE DEFINITELY CAME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THE RELATIONSHIP WAS AT THE LEVEgOf THfl MERCHANTS^. AND HE WANTS TO ESTAULJ'iHMfVSSA"'! OUTDID HIHSELI ESPECIALLY DURING THE FAST SEVEN AL WEEKS TO kJRwHE LEADERS OF THEIR COUNTRY IHAT THIS IS WRONG TOELATIONSHIP ON THE LEVEL OF MERCHANTS AND WWTS TO LOOK UPELATIONSHIP THAT IS MORE VALU/NPLE AND WECTtVE. ISS ANYTHING?

CAVE:

SE: CAVE:

HAKIM:

CAVE: NO. HIE/ ARE NOT CRITICIZING.

NO. HE HANTS TO MAKE CLEAR THAT EVEN IN THE LAST LETTER IHEY DIDN'T LIKE THE MERCHANT TONE Of]"YOU DO THIS. WE DO THAT.THEY MAJir TO RET AWAYJ THEY WANT TO JUST UNDERSTAND. .

WHICH LETTER?

IT IS HOT ?CR1TJCISM?. IT IS OBSERVATION.

WELL. IHE THING WE DID IN TEHRAN. THEY WANT US TO UNDERSTAND THAT LV.NT THIUE SOMETHING MORE THAN JUST. .

THEY SAY THAT TIEY UNDERSTAND THE EVOLUTION

LITHE HIT. ALT. DECAUSE WEITTLE DIT HO THAUWENT THROUGH THIS. ND APPRECIATE VERY MUCH THE EFFORTS THAT IlAvG DOMt iiVtRYIHlNO THAT THEY HAVE DONE.'

r

CHORPANIFAR. AHO EVEN THE WAY HE HAS DONE IT.. KAHCARLU AND

..

Ml HOT SURE I APPRECIATE CHURBANIFAR QUITE SO MUCH.

HAKIM: NO. PMI THEY UO THEY SAID THAT AF1oon^ IME. THE KVI BEING IN THE SITUATIONWAS. fUE GUI'S TO COT IE TO IRAN. AND FOR THEMHIM, THEYOT OF VALUE TO THIS OINT THAT THAT RELATIONSHIP CANNOT FHUI ' AMY MORE IT HAS TO EVOLVE TO THE NEXT STAGE.

CAVE;' AIKEN I'V'T THE

HAKIM:

SAMII: HAKIM:

SAMII: HAKIM:

cave:

UAHT0 TU EHntABlZE AGAIN THAT THE HAY THE CURnEHTS WERE IN MOTION IIETHEEH THE TWO COUNTRIES. THE ONLY WAY TI1AT YOU COULD HAVF. BRIDGED BETWEEN THESE TWO CURRENTS WUUU) HAVE BEEN THROUGH CATALVZC.ItS AND INTERMEDIARIES SUCH AS KANCARLU AND GHORBANlrAH TO HRINOYN AMIC CURRENT TOGETHER. THAT IS WHY HE SETS LOT OF VALUEHAT THESE^gOPLE HAVE DONE.

HE WANTS YOUNOW THATHEEX1xTHAOPblNARY PEPRFSEN TAT 1VE OF THE COOPERATIVE THAT HA3 BEEN MSIGUEO TO DEAL HI TH THE RELATIONSHIP WITH TtrE US

WE REALIZE THAT HIS EFFORT IN 'iVFJU^iENXs-

nur

IliiS.

FOR THIS

IT CAN BE UROUGHT OUT IH THE OPEN. IT

HE RF.CCVNIZES AIDMT there ARE SENSITIVE QUESTIONS IN OUR HIND THAT WHO IS THlS^CQOPERATIVE. DOES THISMALL PARTTHE1 IGCER PART? WHAT PERCENTAGE OF IT. WHO REALLYARE. AND WHAT THEIR AUTHORITIES ARE? THE ONLY WAY HE CAN AJISWEP YCVR QUESTION IS THE FOLLOWING MANNER: THAT STEPS HAVE KEN TAKEN TU CENTRALIZE THIS EFFORT. THEY DO NOTO HIDE THAT THE'iE ARE ENEMIES THAT DO HOT WISH TO SEE THIS TAKE PLACE. ANOARE BIG PROBLEMS THAT they HAVE TO RESOLVE AND THEY PEG US FOR OUR RECOGNITION OF THESE DIFFICULTIES. OUT HE ISJTSuOS",IS Cn0iiPILLINC TO OVERCOME THESE DIFFICULTIES HEY WILLHEIR UTMOST TO OVERCOME THEN

HAKIM:

HE must HAVEel FOR THE FACT THAT GHORBAIIlFAfl. THIS HUNG CO't'.LUUED FASTER. HAS MADE MISTAKES.

_ GET

btuU

SAMII:MI H

rem

m'M ati cm

5

IT HAS

DWF rrrORT THAT IiTIIT INTO BRINGING THT DCLEQATIOH

"ISTAI'.E PFCAUSE PTALLY

HAKIM:

ali:

TirF. ITT-iwt HASapture THE speed OF time. and thatailure.j to say is that we are trying to o7e fruit rife. amd thatistake.

VtRY IMP 0liT AWT FOR YOU TO KNOW THIS. THIS TEAMWAS THE PIONEER IN ESTABLISHING THE RELATIONSHIPND HAI) REPORTED IN WRITING AMD HE REVIEWEDHERE THAT HE WAS AGAINST HAVING THE RELATIONSHIP ATI OH TO COHE TO IRAN AT THAT TIME. AND ALI WASF MR. SAMII ATIME PROVED TO DE CLOSE

HAKIM: HE REFERSERSONAL ISSUE IN TEHRAN. HE SAYS FROMOF

VIEW OF All IRANIAN. WHEN YOU HERE THERE THEY THOUGHTWERE

GOOD HOSTS. HOWEVER THEY COULD NOT CONSIDER THEMSELVESDIPLOMATS AND HE HOPES THAT YOU RECOGNIZE THIS.

SECORD?: 1 THINK THAT IS IMPORTANT

HAKIH: - HE REFERSERSONAL ISSUE .IN TEHRAN. HE, SAYS.;FROMOF.

VIEW" OF AN IRANIAN. 'WHEN-:YOU'WEREWERE

GOOD HOSTS. HOWEVER THEY COULD NOT CONSIDER THEMSELVESDIPLOMATS AND HE HOPES THAT YOU RECOGNIZE THIS.

((i

hi

north: the problem that developed over our perception of that visit was what

we wereItold before we came, okay? and the insult that was percieved by the" PRent was not in your personal hospitality. THE rooms were very-COMf ortable.EJOA?ountry at war. those OF us WHO came ON TtfVr HiSSIQN..onderstand that.

hakim: nt!

WE WERE TOLD THAT. AND AGAIN THIS WAS THE PROBLEM OF HAVING TO DEAL THROUGH OTHERS TO TRY AND ESTABLISH EXACTLY WHO WE WERE MEETING WITH. WE WERE TOLD THAT WE WOULD BE COMING TO TEHRAN AND WE WOULD MEET WITH SPEAKER RAFSANJANI, PRIME MINISTER MUSAVI, PRESIDENT KHAMENEI AND SO ON. WHEN THE PRESIDENT SAID TO ME. AND HE WAS VERY

UPSET. HEI VERY NEARLY GOT FIRED. WHEN IT

WASI HAD EffiO.UElAGED HIM TO BRING

MACFARLANE.

HAKIM: NTERPRETS))

SAMII:

SAYS THAT YOU DON'T RECOGNIZE^THAT RELAXED OF ALL THESE PROBLEMS, jf (LAUGHTER) )

coinc

THERE WAS ONE POINT WHEREASO TO VOLUNTEER TOAUGHTER)). AVE KNOWN MACFARLANE FOR EARS. AND SO IN ADDITION TO BEINO PROFESSIONALLY VERY CLOSE. WE ARE PERSONALLY VERY CLOSE. BUT ON THE THIRDE CALLED ME INTO HIS ROOM MAYBE YOU CUYS HEARDSAID TO ME. "LISTEN. YOU S. U.OU DETTER HOPE THAT THEY ASKOSTAGE TO STAY. OMINATE YOU. ANO GIVEN THE WAY THIS HAS CONE. I'LL STAY WITH YOU. " ORE ALONG THE SAME LINE OVIAL VEIN ABOUT MACFARLANE'S DREAD OF TELLING THE PRESIDENT THAT THE DELEGATION HAD NOT MET WITH HIGH-RANKING IRANIAN OFFICIALS. AS HAD. BEEN PROMISED BY CHORBANIFAR.

FFTRACK. AW? ElW'T liti . HE "AIN 1SSUEERE TRYING TO PUT ACROSS THAT ALL THIS HAPPENED BECAUSE THERE WAS NO DIRECT CONTACT.. ilEAT. ALL OF THIS HAPPENEO BECAUSE YOU WERENTERMEDIARIES.

3AMII:

,AKIM: HE NEXT TlhE' ?NO? ARCUMENT AS TO WHO

IS GOING TO BE KEPT AS HOSTAGE IN IRAN. ECAUSE THERt

rTF HE HERE" INVOLVED. HE WOULD HAVE caused KHAHENEMAND

JU^IDNIT HEET.UITH THE GOVERNING LEVEL. AND HE WOULD NOT'ERE^TODAY.

7NDRTH?: WELL.

WHAT WAS COINOTRANSLATES.

UH,. WE WERE IN TEHRAN, THE Rl?HAT THENO THAT WE DRAFTED THATRAFTED THE WAV IT MAS. HAS

WTHOUGH? THAT THAT WAS GOING TO HELP HOVE THAT PROCESS ALONG. AND BECAUSE WE THOUGHT THAT THAT WAS WHAT YOU WANTED US TO DO.

:ave: well, choroanifar led us to BELIEVE.THAT

HAKIM: . NTERPRETS))

iORTH- AND SO i'm SURE IT WAS OBVIOUS TO. YOU AFTER WE HADOULD SEE-'aLL OF THIS WORK CONEOBJECTIVEHINK EVERYBODY IN THIS ROOM WANTS TOTHAT TRATEGIC RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN OUR TWOOVER THERE, AFTER THE SECOND DAY. OULD SEE THAT IT WASHILL PRETTY QUICKLY. ECAME VERYAFTER WE RETURNED TO WASHINGTON. THAT MORNING MACFARLANE . I BRIEFED THE PRESIDENT. AND THE NEXT DAY WE HAD AWHICH TWO OF THE PRESIDENT'S VERY SENIOR ADVISORS. WEINDERCER SAID. "STOP IT. DON'T CO ANY

AND SHULTZ. IN THE MEETING IN THE PRESIDENT'SfHTCH' HE

SAW. AND you'RE WELCOME TO COME THE NEXT

OVER to me AND SAID. "WE HAVE TO STOP THIS. HE NWfflTv- DOESN'T KNOW WHO THE HELL WE're TALKING TO it'S NQTl

WILL MAKE SURE we CO BACK THROUGH fTHE - "

/PAKISTANI FORElCN MINISTER., YA'CHUBILL BEDAYS. WHY DON'T WE USE HIM

((TRANSLATES. PLUS AN EXPLANATION THAT NORTH HAD MADE^l'lJ JffSJSB

EFFORTS OF THE PREVIOUS fEW YEAR! ^jfo-jj^'

AND IN TRYING to SAVE my JOB. I SAID. "WELL YOU KNOWHE")

1AKIM:

WOULD NOT BE WASTED. ))

ATTER

ve that he wentpecial

1:HEHAP"QiONEiTQ- IHE'TO Eaj^^ANDmTHEN WHENRESIDENT]

hakih: n persian))

emissary ^JARAfTj he went tq^miaki. J

7NDRTH: [hIAkTUB. the one. who came to tehran.

ESIDENT HIMSELFT'WHEN HE WENT TO [THE EC

(<

presi directl

HAKIM:

TALKED WITH HIM. AND THE ECONOMIC SUMMTtJ TALKED

NORTH: HE DIRECTOR, GENERAL OF THEIR FOREIGN MINISTRY} fC * WENTrnTA COMMERCIAL TRADE NISSIQNJTO TEHRAN.IAKTj* WAS THE SENICWHJAf ANESE DIPLOMAJJ ON THAT MISSION. OH. NO. HE WAS THE nOmBERANP 'HE TALKED TO FOREIGN MINISTER VELAYATI. SEVERAL WEEKS LATER. Ea'GHUD KHAN. FROM PAKISTAfiTJ WAS SHINGTON. WE CAVE HIM EXACTLY THE SAME MESSAGE THAT WE CAVE *

E HAS READ THOSE.

FOCUSING ON THE

HE HEARD HE SAID THAT

AVEOPY OF THE TEXT OF WHAT WE CAVE BOTH OFNTERPRETS))

:SS THE JAPANESE SCREWED IT

((INTERPRETS)) HE SAYS THAT WHEN HE^ EVEN ON THE CHOICE OF THEE WAS REFERRING TO THOSE LETTERS^fj !

THE LETTERS WERE THE SAME. YES? UP IN TRANSLATION.

NAUDIDLE))

HE SAYS THAT HE'S AFRAID THAT THE WAY THINGS ARE GOING. THERE WILLOOM FULL OF FILES. BUT THEY ARE ALLAUGHTER)).

THE PROBLEM THAT ue HAVE NOW. ASEE IT.PHILOSOPHY AGAIN. IF YOUeERY PHA*,T ue HAVE

[the %Jell.

( (INTERPRETS)

St*>tC

JAPANESE. THE PAKISTANIST] AND KANCARLU ALL WHAT DO YOU WANT US TO DO NOU?"

ukjOw

AKIM: NTERPRETS)

JUST ON FRIDAY. [THE JAPANESeJcAME IN TO ME AND SAID. -WCLlT

ORTH:

HPRETSI

HAKIM: NORTH:

SAME TIME. LTHE PAKISTANIS^ WHOM WE ARE WORKINC WITH OF THEAVE COME IN TO SEE ME AND SAID, SDID YOU MAKE CONTACT? WE DELIVERED THE MESSAGE. "SAID, "THANJirVoO. " AUGHTER)) AND THEY SAID. ffXAflEvYOU IN-CONTACT YET?" ANDAID, "WELL. NO,

IS THEIR AMBASSADOR

" N

OF TAPE FIVETAPE SIX

HAKIM: NTERPRETS))

NORTH: AND HE SAID THAT'S VERY STR ANGE^BECAUSE HE OBVIOUSLYTHERE WAS A

HAKIM: NTERPRETS))

SAMII;

SAYS THAT THIS IS SOMETHING MAT'HAS TO BE EVALUATED, THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU SHOULDTpUT IN YOUR COMPUTER IS THAT THE REASON THAT'HE FOUND IT STRANGE UAS BECAUSE OF THE REACTION OF IRAN FOR NOTO CO THERE.

OKAY. ON TOP OF THOSE TWO. THE FRENCH INTELLIGENCE SERVICE

IS LISTENING TO CHORBANJFAR. CHOPDANIFAR IS TALKINO TO KANGARLU. THE DEPUTY IN CHARGE OF OPERATIONS FOR THE FRENCH INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ONG-TIME FRIEND.

HAKIM: NTERPRETS))

JOR TH: WHEN I WAS IN PARIS LAST WEEK. IN TRYING TO HELP THEN*'illLLBOMBINGS AND EVERYTHING, HE TOOK ME ASIDE ANOYFRIEND CHORBANIFAR" AND THE IRANIANS ARE GOING 'TOJAIL.

NTERPRETS))

iORTH: AND I SAID. "WHAT DO HE SAID. "WELL. IT'S'EITHER .YOU

ARE COINO TO GO TOYOU'RE GOING TOEDAL. BECAUSE

WHAT YOU ARE DOINOHOSTACES WILL EITHEROU LOCKED

UP OR PROMOTED.'

AKIM: NTERPRETS))

MELLSTHE SAME THING IS BASICALLY THE

ALL OF THI! SAME FROM

((INTERPRETS

ALL OF'tHIS : r.

BECOMING INCREASINGLY AWARE ANO CREATING BIGGER VULNERABILITIES.

((INTERPRETS, ADDING HIS OWN COMMENT ON THE NEED FOR PROMPT ACTIONTO-^RINO UNDER CONTROL ALL OF THE PHONE CALLS. ))

YES. t OF IT. BUT IN A BROADER SENSE. IF WE CO BACK TOHYi3lM THE BROADER SENSE. WE HAVE GOT TO CET THIS. THING MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, SENSIBLY. BEFORE IT LEAKS OUT.

((INTERPRETS)) IS INTERPRETATIONLICHTLY DIFFERENT SLANT. IN THAT HE SAID. -SOONER OR LATER THIS THING ISO BE EXPOSEO. AND IF OUR ACTIONS ARE NOTIRM AND PROPER COURSE BEFORE IT IS EXPOSED. WE WILL NOT CET ANYWHERE. ))

AMU:

KEEP OUR DEALINGS

IN THIS MEETING MR. SAMII IS SURE THAT ALL THESE ISSUES WILL BE DISCUSSED AND TAKEN CARE OF. THAT IS. THE TELEPHONE

CALLS AND ALSOERY PROFESSIONAL WAY OF CONTINUING

WITH OUR RELATIONSHIP.

:ave:

ORTH:

((INTERPRETS)) HE SAYS HEECOMMENDATION TO MAKE. LET'S GET ON WITH THE SHOW. LET'S START DOING THINCS ABOUT IT. BECAUSE HE IS CONVINCED THAT IF WE WANT TO STICK TO THE ISSUES THAT WE HAVE BROUGHT UP AND HAVE TAKEN PLACE. BOTH PARTIES HAVE MANY STORIES TO SAY.

((COMPLETING THE INTERPRETATION))OT OF HEARTBURN ON BOTH SIDES.

DIDEASSURE YOU ABOUT THE TEHRAN BUSINESS? THAT .IT.IBERSONAL THING. IT WAS WHAT WE HERE TOLD BEFOREHAND.*'"

AKIM: NTERPRETS))

AVE:

((IN PERSIAN)) WE UNDERSTAND THE CAUSE OF THE

MISUNDERSTANDING, SINCE EVERYTHING WECAMEHORBANIFAR ALONE. AND WE WANT YOU TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE NOW UNDERSTAND HOW THIS DISSATISFACTIONUT.

I:

AKIM:

E IS REFERRING TO AHE DOESN'T WANT TO OPEN IT UP UNLESS WANT HIM TO DO THATSAYS HE'S HOPING THE DIRECTION THE DISCUSSION WENT THAT NIGHT THAT HE CANE TO THE

HUTELr ANU-.urCH -i m.

y S HOPING THAT SUCH EVENTS WOULD NOT TAKEJ*Y, AGAIN. AND WOULD NOT REFER TO tuat tvdf qF DISCUSSION AGAIN.

NORTH:. IS THAT THE NICHf nMAIWjl ALL PISSED OFF? I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER WHICH ONE IT WAS.

samii:

KNOW WHAT HE'S'TALKING ABOUT. WE DISCUSSED THIS THING EARLIER.UGGEST THAT-WE-DO NOT CET INTO IT. ILL OIVEINT. LET'jl REALLY FLY OVER IT. APPARENTLY. AT ONE POINT THERE WERE DOUBJSTTN THE MINDS OF THE AMERICAN DELEGATION IN THAT THE LIVESPEOPLE_WERE ENDANGERED BY BEING THERE. AND THEY WERE fa'LITTLE BITrTOU<!HY ABOUT THE ISSUE. AND THERE WAS TOTAL HISUNDER'OTANDINq'oF THE IRANIAN HOSPITALITY ANO THAT THE GUESTS OF AN ir^iIAN""xrE "AS DEAR TO THEM AS THEIR EYES ARE. HEOUBT US AGAIN. IF YOU ARE COMING THERE TO OUR COUNTRY.^BECAUSE OUR CUESTS ARE DEAR TO US LIKE OUR EYES. "

I MUST CONFESS TO AON OUR SIDE. TEHRANERY BAD MISTAKE. GOING TO TEHRANAD MISTAKE. AND WHILE WE WERE THERE HE BOTH MADE MANY MISTAKES.

IKE WE SAID AT THE AIRPLANE

1AMII:

AMI I:

1AKIM:

((INTERPRETS)) HE HANTS TO PUT ALL THESE THINGS BEHIND. IS ONE THING THAT HE HANTS YOU TO LEARN FROM THEI PERSONALLY, HONESTLY VOUCH FOR THIS, IRANIAN, AND ESPECIALLY AN IRANIAN MOSLEM. WHENSEE. THIS HAS ROOTS THAT COfjjfcit TO THE TIME OFTHIS WORD "ANAN". AN ENEMY WHO ISUN OR ATO KILL AN IRANIAN MOSLEM AND HE GETS TO THEHE IS BROUGHT UNDER CONTROL AND THE IRANIAN MOSLEM READY TO KILL HIM, IF HE SAYS ANT "AMAN", TEACHING AND THE ISLAMIC TEACHING DEMANDS THATTO GIVE HIM 'AMAN"ECURITY/SANCTUARY)). AND THATBECOMES UNDER YOUR CUSTODY. AND WHEN SOMEONE WALKS INTO AND HE UEST AND WALKS INTO TERRITORY THAT TO THEM THAT THEY WALKING INTO THAT SOLELYTHEIR COURTESY. THEY WILL DIE BEFORE THEY WILL LET THEIR HE WANTS YOU TO KNOW

.Hp*

((INTERPRETS)) I'LL OIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE WHICH ISONG STORYEMBER OF IRANIAN OPPOSITION WHO

ONTH AS GUEST IN THE HOME OF THE HEAD OF THE_INTELLICENCE

TEAM WHICH HAS PURSUINC HIM. ))

SECORD?: I DON'T THINK THAT THERE HAS THAT MUCHmISUNI

I THINK THAT THESE PEOPLE WERE WELL EDUCATED ON .THE WAYS OF_ISLAM.

ORTH: IT WASN'T SO MUCH THAT WE HERE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT THE GOVERNMENT WOULD DO TO US. BUT THAT SOME RADICAL FACTION MICHT FIND OUT UE

NORTH:

SAYS;THAT:HE UNDERSTANDS THAT. THE POINT THAT HE IS TRYING.TO PUT ACROSS TO YOUVl's^THAT HE AGREES THAT'SUCH A. THING COULD HAVE TAKEN" PLACE. BUT %HEY3HAD TO FIRST STEP OVER THEIR DEAD BODIES BEFORE THEY WOULD CET TO YOU. HE WANTS YOU TO KNOW THAT. HE SAID. THAt YOUR CUYS SLEPT SIXAY. HE AND HIS CROUP .

(<LAUGHTER))

DIDN'T.-SLEEP AT ALL. BECAUSE THEY HAD TOQVEH

:ome?

THEIR.DEAD BCD lES^EFpRE THEY WOULD CET UU.

HOW CLOSE DI1

<<SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW BEST TO PROCEED. CONCENSUS MAS THAT AN AGENDA SHOULD BE SET UP FOR THE NEXT DAY'S HEETINCS BEFORE THE MEETING THAT NIGHT BROKE UP. THEY BEOIN TOIST OF THINGS TO BE INCLUDED ON THE AGENDA. ))

ME PUT AT THE VERY TOP. . HINK WE NEED TOISCUSSION TOMORROW OFALL THE HONORABLE SETTLEMENT, AN HONORABLE PEACE IN THE IRAN IRAQ WAR. BECAUSE WE SEE THATEY TO KEEPING THE SOVIETS OUT OF THIS 'DAMN* THING.

BUT. "

COD KNOWS I'M

HAKIM; EALLY THINK THAT THE FIRST ISSUE .THAT YOU SHOULD DISCUSS WHICH IS TOTALLY ISOLATED FROM EVERYTHING

ELSE IS TIED TOGETHER. THERE IS AN

ISOLATED ISSUE YOU SHOULD DISCUSS THAT TAKEAND THE QUESTION OF THE HOST- BELIEVE WE SHOULD DISCUSS THAT, HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING ON THIS. AND PUT IT ASIDE AND THEN HAVE THE DIPLOMATIC, POLITICAL DISCUSSION. THAT IS MY SUGGESTION.

hakim;

NORTH:

AGREE WITH THAT. ON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO FIX THE HOSTAGES TOMORROW. WE'RE NOT GOING TO FIX THE IRAN-IRAQ WAR TOMORROW EITHER. ON'T WANT ANYBODY IN THIS ROOM OR ANYBODY IN OUR RESPECTIVE GOVERNMENTS TO WALK AWAY FROM THIS MEETING THINKING THAT THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE FOR US IS THE HOSTAGES.

NO. NO. NO. WE UNDERSTAND THAT. LET ME REPEAT ONE^rllNO^HAT THIS MAN SAID. THAT IS COINC TO BE THE FOUNDATIONISCUSSION AND THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT WEHANGED THE TOTAL ATTITUDE OF THE GOVERNING SECTOR" OF 'IRAN IN HOW THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN IRAN ANO. SHOULDE'S THE FOUNDER OF THAT. SO THAT ISM BRINGING THISSUBJECTM TALKING ALONG LINES THAT YOU TWO WANT TOTHAT'S WHY I'MNOW THAT AS FAR AS YOUR OB JEC TI VEt THE LONG-TERM RELATIONSHIP..IS MORE IMPORTANT. AND SO IS HIS... M SITTING HERE. 'ANDrl SEE-THERESUE. HEREr'r*-*

WELL. ERY PRACTICAL OBSTACLE.

r scONS by talking about thean-iraq war. explains also* hat. in his.view it wouldig mistake.to FOLLOWurse. and vTHATl there,irst be ^discussionshostages before getting to political matters such AS thewar. he notesiscussion ofomplex issue as the .iran-iraqleadiscussion of the role. of .THE. SOVir the ROLE "'of' THE arab countries of THE culf. etc. says that although THE MATTER of THE hostaces micht be AN insignificant issue for "you DIPLOMATS" IN comparison with the matter of LONG TERM relations.^for him- civilian"ON-diplomat. THE hostace matter IS extremely important. HE views ITpTENTIAL obstacle TO further lonc-rance political relations. "LET's cet rid of this hatterE said. "then proceediscussion of THEJ relations between the two

sami i: fJNO account of all the various matters that should

be discussed including the situation in lebanon. the relations with the Soviets' the relations with Persian gulf countries, etc. >>

(AKIM:

FIRST THING IS THAT ALL THESE SUBJECTS. IF THEY WANT TO DISCUSS THEM. AND OIVE US WHAT THEIR VIEWS AREHOLE LIST OF SUBJECTS. YOU KNOW. THE LEBANESE SITUATION. THE AFGHAN SITUATION. THEIR RELATIONS WITH THE ARAB COUNTRIES. THEIR POSITION IN EBANON. THEIR PROBLEMS WITH THE FRENCH. CEOSTRATECIC PROBLEMS. THEN THEY WANT TO HEAR OURS. AND IN THESE THINCS THEYOT OF INTELLIGENCE THEY WANT TO PASS TO US. ON AFGHANISTAN. FOR INSTANCE. AND ON THE LEBANON. THEY WANT TO HEAR WHAT WE HAVE TO SAY. THEN TOGETHER COME UP, WITH PLANS ON HOW THEY'LL HANDLE THESE SUBJECTS IN THE FUTUR^

THE ISSUES THAT MR. SAMII ARE IN FULL THE SAME AS THE ISSUES THAT WE HAVEABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE ATAS AMAZED AT HOW DETAILEO HE WENT WITHOUT NOTES ON THE ISSUES THAT HE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT AND. HOW HE WANTS TO DISCUSS THEM. NOT ONLY FROM AN ANALYSIS POINT'OF VIEW. NOT ONLY FROM EXCHANCE

POINT OF VIEW, BUT ALSOOF VIEW, AND ALSO

GET IN TO THE PERIPHERAL. AND HE GAVE EXAMPLES OFANTS T0 D'SCUSS: THEIR RELATIONSHIP WITHPARTICULARLY WITH FRANCE. AND WHAT THE FRENCH ARET0 0ISCUSS THE WHOLE ISSUE OF THE LEDANESE.

E UHAT THEY HAVE HEARD FROM THEM. AND IJvL, HANCE THOSE VIEWS WITH US. THEY WANT TO CO INTO

DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THE RUSSIANS. THEY WANT TO CO DEEP INTO DISCUSSIONS WITH RECARD TO THE NEIGHBORING ARAB

PLACED PARTICULAR EMPHASIS ON THAT.

^TFEED.BAC*'TO US THE ISSUES THAT 7WE? pTsJufsED WITH

^FwHOLE LISTHAT lU^irCUSS WITH US. AND MY UNDERSTANDING

i^HIS^NO^D'LE^Els^ul0 ^

THEY ARE VERY INTERESTED IN THAT.

OR TH:

HAKIH:'>

NORTH:

HAKIM:

BOTH. BC m

((IN PERSIANJTELLS SAMII WHAT HE HAD JUST TOLD NORTH ABOUT THE TWO OF THEM

I THINKING SO MUCH ^ALIKE. ))

REW UP AN AGENDA OF ITEMS. UT ON MY AGENDA THEWAR-FIRST. SECOND WAS AFGHANISTAN. THIRD WAS CENTRALNICARAGUA. FOURTH WAS OVERCOMING THE OBSTACLES THAT CETAND BY THE OBSTACLES I

I M:

) FORGIVE ME.NOW WHAT HE IS SAYING HERE. HE'S GOING BACK TO THE VERY ISSUE THAT IS OUTSTANDING IN YOUR MIND.

WHO HE IS. HE IS GOING BACK TO THAT ISSUE. OKAY"? THAT'S WHY

HE MENTIONED THIS. THAT'S WHY HE STOPPED ME FROM TRANSLATING. TOMORROW HE HANTS TO OPEN UP AND TO FLOOD YOU WITH EVERYTHING

THAT HE KNOWS AND HE HAS ON HIS MIND. HE WANTS YOU TO JUST

LISTEN TO EVERYTHING THAT HE

I:

iORTH:

AND THE REASON HE WANTS TO DO THIS IS HEEELING THAT THERE ARE MANY ISSUES. WHILE HE IS SPILLING HIS CUTS OUT. THAT TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES. AUTOMATICALLY SETTLED. AND THEN AFTER HE FINISHES, THEN YOU LOOK AT YOUR LIST. AND IN THE ORDER OF PRIORITY THAT YOU HAVE ESTABLISHED, AND THEN...

AND BETTER EVEN STILL. HINK OUR ACENDA FOR TOMORROW OUCHT

TO BE: YOU TALK. I'LL LISTEN. .AND THEN I'LL TALK

TOMORROW IS COINC TOERY GOOD DAY BECAUSE IT'SH

((EXCHANGE OF BANTER. JOKE ABOUT KANGARLU THINKING THAT CAVE IS IN THE HOSPITAL. I)

going. hakim: nterprets))

north: he can't fight this in the press before he even cet the machine

parties agree to meet the next morningreaks up with personal chitchat, >)

((persians continue to whisper and talk softly in the background. they obviously are operating on the assumption that the room is bugged. can only pickord or two here and there. sounds like at least three people are present. later there is talking and lauohino in what sounds like another room of the suite. one person says good night, and two or more other people continue to chat in the background. last part of tape contains no voices. only sounds of movement. closing drawers, etc. ))

eight

nothing heard on the tape until about one third of the way thr ouch. counter. then. suddenly. as if the recorder had just been turned on, voices are heard in the background. sounds like it might be in another room in the suite. sounds like at least three people. for the most part inaudible. one sentence was clear however. someone said, in english, "tell ali toheet of paper." ounter. conversation is in both english and persian. but only isolated phrases can be heard . about twee quarters of way through the tape. sound stops in mid conversation. ounter.

tape nine

similar to tape eicht. conversation going on ?in adjacentt least three. probably more. people present. at least two english speakers and one persian. one party serving ast counter. persian stops speaking and english speaker begins interpreting by

saying. "he says thatonly fragmentary

secments are audible. even with volume turned up all the way. other phrases heard:ell you verythere are many theoriesord '

s to uhat is causing the

-the dialogue ue had in; "we made every

effort to"ue even put our marines into

beirut to stopordnd then ue withdrew the marines in july. conversation continues throughout the enti

Tape.

tape ten. side a

to this point. remainder of tapes

have been recorded on only one side.

are seven mqre. including this one -sr.

ARE RECORDED? ON BOTH SIDES. ))

WHEN TAPE FIRST STARTS. SOUND IS REMOTE AS IN PREVIOUS TWO TAPES. THEN SUDDE^CnSOUND COMES ONOUNTER ) WITH MR. CAVE;CHATTINVwITH TWO PERSIANS. IN PERSIAN. ABOUT PERSIAN LANGUAGE AND LITERATURE. FGHAN REFUGEES

ROOM SERVICE ARRIVES. RATTLING OF DISHES. OTHER PEOPLE IVE'IN ROOM.' CHATTER ABOUT CETTINO FLIGHT BACK. JSTj BE AFTERNgCN. BECAUSE 7NORTH7 SAYS WOULD HAVE TOOW TO0 HOURS FLIGHT BACK TO WASHINGTON. ))

( (THESjSpARE^THE. NOTES THROUGH ABOUT HALF WAY THROUGH SIDE A

NORTH:

CAVE:

CAVE:

NORTH. CAVE:

sam i:

NORTH. CAVE

FARSI. MENTION OF SOMEONE SLEEPING. )

HE IS SLFtPINO MAYBE THEYHIFT. ONE OF THE THREE HAS TO SLEEP WHILE THE OTHER TWO ARE AWAKE NOW THAT HE IS WORKING HE HAS TO SLEEP. (LAUGHTER)

OKAY I'LL SLFEP NEXT

(INIEKPRETS)

(TASKINGETlER THAT HF HAD RECEIVcD) HAVE YOU SE'N THIS LE1TER?

*1

EHO CAVE THAT

(INAUDIBLE)

(INTERPRETS)

HE TOOK THIS FROM ONE OF THE BOYS IN TEHRAN THAT VISITED LEBANON.

WAS GIVEN TO THE MEDIA?

NORTH. IT HAS PROVIDED TO THE MEDIA BY THE HI ZBALI. AH

AS YOU SEE HERE?

anfM it iu tan fflJ

(ALL TALKING AT ONCE)

YES THAT'S IT.

(PEkSIANS TALKINGIDEOTAPE THAT UAS SHOWN THEY CAN'T QUITE AGREE ON WHICH ONE IT WAS. FIRST THEY SAID ITE ONE ON FRIDAY THEN THEY SAID THURSDAY )

SAMII CAVE:

samii

CAVE:

SAMII

CAVE:

SAM 11

<INAUDIBLE)

HEUMMATION ON AfTAN AND THE SOVIET...

{(IN PERSIAN)) O THE SEVERAL YEARS THAT THE SOVIETS HAVE BEFN-IN^AP^ANISTANA THEY HAVE ESTABLISHED THEIR OWN POLITICALCE NC EX ARABND COVEHNMtNT MACHINERY.

<THIStm|Hf^f'WsT RECENT INFORMATION UE HAVE ABOUT THE SOVIETS AND THe"WIEVpRESENCE FROM THE STANDPOINT OF W- . THE HILITARY SITUATION. THE POLITICAL 6ITUATI0N. ANO TNE CONTROL OF THE MACHINERY OF THE GOVERNMENT

ND NOU THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO PREPARE THE UAY FOR HARINC THE NATURE OF THEIR PRESENCE COMPLETfc.

SAMII CAVE:

SAMII CAVE

TO THEIR INFORMATION. HAS EVOVLED THE STRUCTURE OF THEIR PRESENCE

((INTERPRETING))

AND UHAT THEY HAVE DONE. ACCOR THE SITUATION UHERE THEYN AFGHANISTAN.

(INAUOIBLF)

EVEN IF UE WOULD DO NOTHING THE'SOVIETS WOULD WITHIN TWO YEARS COUtDWOULD BE ABLE TO UlTHCRAU ALL THEIR FORCES FROM AFGHANISTAN

(IN-.UOIBLF)N PERSIAN))

IN OTHER UORDS. THEY UIH SETOVERNMENT THAT WILLISASTER FOR US (INAUDIBLE) MEANING THEY WILL CHANGE THEIR MILITARY PRESENCE, HOWEVER (INAUDIBLF) UILLISASTER FOR US

NORTH CAVE

HAKIM: SAMII: CAVE

HE SAID THAT WHAT THEY UILL DO ISN THEY WITHDRAW THEIR FORCES THEY UIU SETUPPET GOVERNMENT.

COMPLETELY?

F THE EXISTING GOVERNMENT AND FORHIS WILL

NOT FOR IRAN FOR ISLAM.

(INlEKRUPTED BY SOMEONE COMING IN) UHAT'S HIS NAME LFT HER IN THE ROOM

(INAUDIBLF)

SAMII: CAVE:

SAMII: CAVE"

SAMII: CAVE:

HAKIM:

SAMII: CAVE-

SAMII:

CAVE:

BAMXI: CAVE:

HAKIM

CAVE:

SAMII:

CAVE:

SAMII: CAVE;

AND NAJIBUH AH TOOK OFFICE THEY BOTH TRIED

TO CORRECT THE MISTAKES OF THE PAST LEADERS IN AFGHANISTAN.

WAS DIRECTtD TOWARDS REl ICICN. NATION. AND SOCIETY.

SWORD THAT ONE HANDACTFUL

< <INTbRPRETING))

FOR INSTANCE CREATION OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

((IN

INCIDENTALLY THE "LOI JEKGEH" (NATIONAL ASSEMBLY) RARELY EVEN IT'S LIKE THE OAJHCRINC OF THE CLANS.

<INIEHPRETINC))

THE PRINCIPLES OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY ISOMMUNISM. BUT...

<(INUT THEY HAVE UTILIZED THIS INAY THAT ENABLES THEM TO MAINTAIN THEIR PRESENCE/^

<<INUT THcY HAVE CONTROLI E" THIS INSTRUMENI. THEY'VE BROUGHT THIS INSTRUMENT. UNDER THEIR EMPLOYMENT TO ESTABLISH THEIR PRESENCE.

<(INTbRPRETINC))

THEY. THE SOVIET UNION. HAS THE EDGE ON INTELLIGENCE SURVEIU ANCE ON ALI FRONTS.

((ALSOVEN MORE THAN THAT THROUGH INTELLIGENCE THEY CONTROL.

((FINISHING INTERPRETATION)) AND THEY HAVE CONTR

THIS PROCESS. SUCH AS TRYING TO SEPARATE

THE DESTINY OF THE FOREIGNERS AND THE CIVILIAN PEOPLE OF THE

BAKU: v

f SOKE SORT. VOICES TOO LOW TO DISCERN. )

SECORD: north:

SECORD:

rm.

SAMII: CAVE:

BAM I: CAVE"

AVE:

TElL THEM THAT I'LL CALL

ou ?ACl?t'.lNours.

PW TMEIfclO-JXCUSE me. i'm workingittle crisis here.

pi it vOU ON holdinute and

*'LL,T

on the break^and

VChY well, (inaudible)

(<innderstand.

aSsTAn'h'.'sWn DW.DEU IHrt'sECTION. DY THE RUSSIANS AND EACH SECTION... (ASKS SAMII SOMETHING IN FARSI)

<

AnHekENdI^ON THE PRIORITY AND^MPORTANCE OF EACH SECTION HASHASE APPROACH TOWARDS THE TOTAL REGION

CINAUOIDLF)

ANDNTHfcPFIRSTCpRIORITY HAS BEtN GIVEN TO AIL THE VILLAGES AT THE BORDER AND THE OPERATIONAL OBJECTIVE IS TO DISCONNECT THEIR RELATIONSHIP BETWEFN THESE VIU AGES WITH THE NEICHBORS

SAMII

cave:

SAMII: CAVE:

SAMII: CAVE:

IT IS PAKISTAN FIRST. IRAN NEXT. THEN CHINA

NTERPRETING) T_ 71 i

AND HE WANTS TO BE VERY CLEAR THAT THE WESTERN WORLD AND PAKISTAN^ HAVE NOT DONE MUCH FOR THE AFGHANS

ND TODAY THE MAIN ISSUES AND PROBLPMS THFY HAVE ARE GROUNDED AND HAVE NOT BEEN TAKEN CARE OF

HAKIM:

SAMII:

CAVE"

SAMII:

CAVE:

SAMII CAVE:

ENQrlSHTT?FOR PRECEDENT.

.. THEY'RE FbARFUL ABOUT IRAN.

Iblf)

((iTStRPP-etinc) therehor&jft*1'

s^enqC the internal security OF pakistan.

CAVE:

samii:

ENETREATED THE FARTHESTjgART OF AFGHANISTAN AS FAR AS IS CONCERNEO.

ANDNWEEARE*UITNESSINC THE DISACREtMENTS AND CLASHES OF THE FACTIONS.

CAVE: NHAT FACTIONS'*

SAMII: N PERSIAN))

MOJAMEDIN FACTIONS

CAVE: NTtRPRETINC))

AND THEY ARE WITNESSING THE DISACREfMENTS BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT FACTIONS OF THE MOJAXEDINS

cave: cave:

cave:

samii: cave:

HE WANTS TO MAKE CLEAR THE APPROACH TOWARDS MORE ?IN/THAN? AFGHANISTAN.

((INTERPRETING))

BAHU: CAVE:

SAMII: CAVE:

SAMII: CAVE:

SAMII: CAVE:

SAMII: CAVE:

SAMII: CAVE:

SAMII: CAVE:

SAMII: NORTH: CAVE: SAMII:

CAVE:

SAMII

CAVE:

(<INTERPRETING >)

THE MOJAHEDIN SCROUNGE TODAY.

PRESS THEM FARTHER DOWN, THEY ARE

((INTEKPRETINC))

ANYTIMF THAT THE RUSSIANS DECI NOT CAPABLE OF DOING THAT.

(INAUDIBLE)

ANn^THEY^TRANSFERRED ALL THE YOUNG* (INAUDIBLE) COULP CARRY WEAPONS QUITE EFFECTIVELY UH. . SENT THEM OUT OF THE COUNTRY TO THE ?QUARTERS? IN IRAN AND PAKISTAN

((INTEKPRETINC))

IF YOU OIVE THEM SURFACE-TO-SURFACE MISSILFS TO (INAUDIBLE)

(IN1EHRUPTED)

SURFACE-TO-SURFACE OR SURFACE-TO-AIR? N PERSIAN))

LOOK. ONES THAT ARE SHORT RANGF GROUND-TO-CROUND

HORT. SHORT RANGE.

((INTtRPRETINC))

MOJAHEDINS CANNOT FIGHT THE ENEMYISTANCE. THEY HAVE TO PENETRATE THE HEART OF THE ENFMY AND FIGHT.

HAKIM.

PERSIAN)> MUST NOT. NOT CANNOT

SAMII: CAVE:

SAMII: CAVE:

HAKIM: CAVE: SAMII: CAVE:

IS: CAVE:

: CAVE:

AVE:

CAVE

INTERPRETING))

TlC?lMEED TRAINING^.ESPECIALLY TOWARDSAN'T COME UP WITH A

EPEATSTWAT HAKIM SAID)NTERPRETING))

ANTITANK EQUIPMENT

UHICH RUSSIA IS PUTTING INTO EFFECT AND TRAININO FOR USING SURFACF-TO-AIR MISSILFS.

(INAUDISLE)

END OF TAPEIDE A

mrm

CAVE

EXCHANGES WERE MISSEt' BETWEtN THE TWO SIDES OF THE TAPE. )

THEY ARE AWARE THAT RECENTLY YOU HAVE STARTEtVTTO OIVECROUPS

PERSIAN))

YOU SEf. WE HAVE DONE THIS AND YOU SHOULD DO THE SAME PRESSURE THOSE OUTSIDE OF AFGHANISTAN TO MOVE INSIDE SO THEY MAY FIGHT AS

Ml

PARTICULAR WORD EVERYONE TALKING. INAUDIBLE)

CEED

SAMII:

CAVE:

CAVE:

HAKIM:

SAMII: CAVE:

SAMII: CAVE:

HAKIM

SAMII; CAVE:

TOHIS AND WEDO THE SAME TH INCANNOT. IN PUSHING THE PEOPLE FROM THE OUTSIDE TO UNITE AND MOVE INSIDE

hCV MUST MOVE INSIDE

ffflN BOTH AREAS. ORGANIZE AND.

(INAUDIBLE)

1

OJAHEDINS MUST BE TRAINED 1

((IN ENGLISH))

((IN.

I THINK UHAT HE'S THINKING IS BOTH IN REGULAR MILITARY TACTICS AND

IRREGULAR MILITARY TACTICS

(INAUHI3LE)

THE CROUP THAT THE MOJAHEDIN ARE.INVOLVED UITH (INAUDIBLE) THEY MUST PENETRATE ANDTO THE AFGHANI'^AND THF RUSSIAN TROOPS

SAMII: N PERSIAN))

WE VE THAT THE WAR MUST BE TAKEN OUT OF AFGHANISTAN AND INTO TIC SOVIET UNION AND WE HAVE STARTED TO DO SO

NTERPRETING) )

THFV BELIEVE THAT THE UAR MUST BE TAKEN ONTO SOVIET SOIL. THE AFGHAN WAP MUST BE TAKEN DN TO SOVIET SOIL.

IS

SAMII

CAVE:

AKIM

5All I: HAKIM

(INIERPREI ING) )

AND IRAN IS NOT SITTING IDLF IN THISIME OUT FOR CCFFEF AND CHATTEH))

AW

((INTERPRETS)) TODAYORTHERN PART OF AFGHANISTAN LIKE BADAKHSHAN JOZCAN. FARYAB. BADGE IS. ANDHARIF. jHUST; BECOME ACTIVE UE MUST El IMINATE THE FEAR OF THE MOJAHEDIN FRON'iC CITIES

( (INTbRPRETS)) UST EMPHASIZE IN THE ISSUE OFTHAT una r, c. a|

<(INTERPRETS)> FOR INSTANCE. UT OF THEHAT

UAS GIVEN TO THEM . UASJAMIAT-E ISLAMI CROUD. BECAUSE

north.

OFN INQTJT HEY JUST DID NOT CET THE TRAINING.

samii

IT UAS THE TRAINING

HAKim:

y the russian militaryumber of n. the border guards. the ground forces. iVtHF border guards include ten brigades. four round forces comprise three armiesamii actually one independent division the first armyn kabulime out to roll out some maps. >)

INFO UE HAVE. INSIDE AFGHANISTAN. THERE

SAMII: THISAP OF THE NORTHWEST UHICH IS LOCATEO OPPOSITE EASTERN IRAN AND HASHHAD AND YOU SEE ON THE HAP THE DEPLOYMENT OF COVERNMENT FORCES IN THE BORDER AREA OF HEKAT AND FARAKH

NTERPRETS) ).

SAMII IfrflAT AND FARAH ARE THE SAME PbOTRcE IN WHICH THE SHINDAN HEADQUARTER IS LOCATED. THE SHINDAN AIRBAHSSfiiE FIRST CORPS IS IN KABUL VOU SEI- THAT IN THIS FIRST CORPETTNEkE ARE VARIOUS ENGINEERING BATTALIONS. INFANTRYOMMUNICATIONS BATTALIONSAVE INTERPRETED THIS AS INTELLIGENCE)). DEr-ENSE

AND TRANSPORT. AND THESE ARC ALSO"ORCANIZEn IN THE INDEPENDENT DIVISIONS AVE INTtRPREIED AS "AND THEY HAVE THE HEADQUARTERS OF AN INDEPENDENT DIVISION "WAND ON THISAP)) IT IS CLEAR THAT VARIOUS TRANSPORT AND TRANSFORATION BATTALIONS ARE CONCENTRATED IN KABUL. AND THE ARTILLERY FINING ALSO TAKES PLACE IN KABUL AND THE MOUNTAIN INFANTRY. AlQ-NQ HELICOPTER. AND INDEPENDENT PARATROOPER BATTALIONS AND MECHANIZED INFANTRY. AND UE ALSO SEE COHMUNICATIONS. RADAR AND PARATROOPERS ON THIS MAP. AND THEOF THE SECOND CORPSAVE SAYS ARMY)).

((MORE EXAMINATION AND EXPLANATION OF THE MAP. GOESEIAILFD. ))

. SIDE GIVES INFORMATIONI PLAN OF ATTACK ACAINST IRAN WHICH INCLUDES INVASION THROUGH HERAT AREA OF^AFGHANISTAN THtORY THAT BATTALION IN BORDER AREA IS SOVIET "PoCTE*CRECQNNAISSANCE

ENCAGED IN CATHEhINC INTEi LICENCE IN'XONNECTION Ml

SOVIE) DESICNS AGAINSTAN. ))

SAMII

says iran has problfm in tracking soviet overflights 0f|

Iranian Territory because of radara

very serious problfm uith lack of radar and samii hants to talk about that later. iran. to pass to the pakistan

(UNFOLDS MAP. ) WE

IrEASN))LLICENCC THAT thendai

look at the lowerf thenit that is deployed in zaran,

NORTH:

CAVE:

north.

CAVE.

SAMII:

CAVE:l I:

CAVE: SAMII:

CAVE: SAMI1:

CAVE:

north:

SAMII:

CAVE:

SAMII:

CAVE

north

SAMII:

CAVE:

SAMII:

CAVE:

CAVE. SAMII

RE YOU ALRIGHT? UH?

LRIGHT.

RE NO FACTI0N3 DEPLOYED IN ZARANJ BECAUSE OF THE FACT THATINSTEAD OF FACTIONS. )>

HCWEVEK'^HIjilB ONE OF THE MAIN ARTILI ERY HEADQUARTERS AND THERE IS ALSO AN INFANTRYN AND THE HEADQUARTERS OF THE TUDEH PARTY OPERATIONS AGAINST US.

((INTERPRETS))

AND THEIR JOB IS TO CONTROL OUR ZAHEDAN. THE CITY OF ZAMEOAN IN IRAN

uhat do you mean "control-?

THF MISSION OF THOSE FORCES THAT ARE DEPLOYED IN ZARANJ IS CONTROLLING TIC IRANIAN CITIES OF ZAHEDAN and .ZABOL

HE SAYS THAT THAT THE duty OF THESE GUVS IS TO CONTROL WHAT COES ON IN THE IRANIAN CITIES OF ZABOL AND ZAHET1AN

YEA. BUT SEE THAT'S NOT... THAT^JwRONS THATRU OPERATIONOVIET ARMY OPERATION ITT'sa KGB OPERATION. OT OF SOVIETS THERE THEY'RE KGB j

IB THEKE AN INTELLIGENCE PRESENCE THERE? YES

WEIL- I'VE SEEN REGULAR MILITARY FORCES THERE. HE'S TALKING ABOUT THE SOVIET REGULAR ARMY. VES.

L HIM THATARE INTELI ICENCE FORCES ANDL ION HERE AND BECAUSE OF THE WATEK THAT FL INTO IRAN TiiEYOT OF PROBLEMS FOR US

HE SAID THAT ah.. YOU KNOW THIS . THFnE

THE HELMAND RIVER AND THE 7KASHMI? RIVEK

r,ve,,s' IRAnIanTt!

CIVEELLOT OF PROBLEMSWATER.

(ASKS SAMII SOMETHING IN PtRSIAN)

WE ARE PRESENTLY CONFRONTED WITH THIS PRORi Fm OURSE SEVERAL TIMES

WE HAVE BLOWN UP DAMS THEV HAVE BUILT IN THIS REGION AT KAMANNAR AND CHAHARVORKAT.

SAMII

CAVE: SAMII CAVE: SAMII

CAVE:

SAMII

CAVE:

BUT THfrV STILL USE THISOINT OF BRINCINC PRESSURE TO BEAR ON {RAN.

ff"*i'TiIS PROBABLE IN THE MOUNTAINS BEHIND ZARANJ..

t (AVE FORCES FOR OPERATIONS AGAINST PAKISTAN, THE PERSIAN GULF. AND THE SEA OF^OMAN HOWEVER. UE HAVE HO KNOWLEOOE OF THEM.

((INTERPRETS)>

IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THEY'VE OOT FORCES DEPLOYED IN THE MOUNTAINS THERE TO USE IN THE PERSIAN GULF AREA AND BALUCHISTAN BUT THEY DON'T KNOW THEY DON'T HAVE ANY INFORMATION.

THE HEADQUARTERS OF THOSE INTti LICENCE FORCES THAT ARE OROANIZINO OPERATIONS IN IRANIAN AND PAKU>IANI BALUCHISTAN IS IN ZARANJ.

((INTERPRETS))

HE SAYS THAT THE INTfc' LICENCE 'HEADQUARTtRS FOR OPERATING IN Ji A'J AND PAKISTANI BALUCHISTAN IS IN ZARANJ.

CAVE:

SAMII: CAVE:

WE HAVE KGB COMMS COMING OUTEGULAR BASIS?

I THINK. SO. 1 KNOW WE'VE COT THEMTHIS AREA.

HAT THEY ARE BEHIND ZARANJ.

( (THEN TO SAMII. INwE-KNOWA KGBTHIS ARE'

THEY DON'T THINK THEY ARE RIGHT IN ZARANJ. YOU SEE. THE MOUNTAINS RISE. AND THEY THINK THAT BEHIND THE MOUNTAINS. AND THEY WANTNOU IF WE'VE EVER PICKED UP ANYTHING THAT SHOWS INSTALLATIONS BEHIND THESE MOUNTAINS

CAVE:

SAMII: CAVE:

NORTH SAMII:

CAVE

((INE HAVE SEEN CNF OF THOSE BIG SATE IN THAT AREA.

THERE ATELLITE DISH THEhE. AND IT'S PROBABLY KGB I THINK THAT WHAT WE'RE SEE INC IS THE KGB COMMUNICATIONS

BUT WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO OEI ANYTHING. YOU SH CAREFULLY ON THE SHARAFATKUH AREA WHICH IS BEHIND ZARANJ

SAMII: CAVE:

THEY CAN PICK UP ANY INFORMATION.. THEY DON'T HAVE ANY OVEKHEAD CAPABILITY.

SHA.APAT^^OOLISTA-.UH. AND CHAMANISTAN. BUT HE HAVEN'T BEEN MLE JO CET ANY INFORMATION.

noforn

top secret

sami: north:

HAKIM: SAMI:

CAVE:

WORTH:

CAVE:

WORTH:

CAVE:

SAMII

NORTH:

(APARENTLY^SOME^MISSED IN THE CHANCING OF TAPES )>

a:iO(^THAT I'VE GIVEN ON THE DEPLOYMENT OF THESE FORCES

I 'CL 'CO BACK. AND THE NEXT TIME WE GET TOGETHER. I'LL SEEAN CEI SOME ANSWERS TO SOME OF THESE THINGS

mm

N THE. COO MAP ALSO

( (INTER? TELL HIM ;

( (PClLLINCvOUT*flAPS EVERYONE TALKING AT ONCE. >)

HE AMII)) WANTS TO KNOW TO WHAT DEGREE YOU ACCEPT HIS EXPLANATION OF THE SITUATION IN AFGHANISTAN

IT'S VERY PARALLEL TO OURS EXCEPT IN TERMS OF THE TIME LINE

( (INTERPRETS)

ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THIS

OU MEAN EXCEPT FOR THE TWO-YEAR PEPIOD THATAVE**

t

YOU ARE TALKING TWO YEARS

ASK HIM WHAT HIS VIEW IS*'

THIS IS WHY THIS

'RE

DISCUSSION IS SO VERY IMPORTANT"TO OUR TWO GOVERNMENTS AVE TO CD BACK AND TELL MY PRESIDENT'WHERE WE ARE HEADED IN TERMS OP RELATIONS BETWEEN THE US AMD IRAN. SO THAT HE KNOWS HOW TO HANDLE WHAT WE EXPECT THE RUSSIANS TO SAY ABOUT AFGHANISTAN AT THE END OF THIS WEEK. OUR ESTIMATE IS THAT THE RUSSIANS ARE COINO TO MAKE PROPOSALS CM AFGHANI STAN ON FRIDAY TO TALK ABOUT PULLING OUT IN THEULL OUT

n: NORTH"

HAKIM SAMII:

HAKIM. NORTH:

AND THEY ARE GOING TO ASK US TO MAKE ABSOLUTE GUARANTEES OF NO MORE HELP TO THE MUJAHEDIN

((INTERPRETS))

CO YOU THINK THAT IF YOU GIVE THESE GUARANTEES. THE

.OH, THEY'LL LEAVE THE KGB JJEIU M1 BUT THE ARMY

NTERPRETS))

samii:

HAKIM:

(INAUDIBLE))

( (INTERPRETS) ) HE IS SURE THAT WHENEVER THEV PULL OUT, THEV UILL LEAVE AT LEASTHOUSAND OF THEIR ADVISOR5 BEHIND

OH SURE. .ADVISORS. BUT I'M TALK INC ABOUT MILITARY UNITS

THIS IS AVERY* IMPORTANT MATTER ESPECIALLY AS IT RELATES TO THE SECURITY OF PAKISTAN WHICH IS EVEN NOW BEINC THREATENED BY THE RUSSIANS.

NORTH:

HAKIM.

NOR TH.

HAKIM

SAMII:

HAKIM:

SAMII:

HAKIM-

THAT'S TRUE SECOND. MY PRESIDENT KNOWS THATF WE LOSE THE RELATIONSHIP WITH PAKISTAN^ AND HELP THE MUJAHEDIN. UE'VE cot TO HAVE ANOTHER UAY OFO.

((INTERPRETS))

WHAT IS THE ONLY OTHER COUNTRY THROUGH WHICH WE CAN HELP?

auchter ))

HAS TAKEN THE SKY AUAY FROH^OU^ (

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT UE HAVE PREPARED FOR THE MUJAHEDIN TO USE UHEN THEY CO TO THEIR FORTIFICATIONS

THISMALL MAP THAT THEY HAVE PREPARED FOR THE MUJAHEDIN TO USE IN ACTION

HAK IM

SAMII: HAKIM

NORTH.

THIS IS THE SPEECH OF THE IMAM KHOMEINI SAYINC THAT. WE PLEDGESTHE MUJAHEDIN THIS IS UHAT THEY GIVE TO IS IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER IT GIVES THEM THE PRELIMINARYEACH INDIVIDUAL

IT IS DIVIDED INTO SECTIONS AND THEY REFER TOIT

BY FRIDAY. WE HAVE TO CO TELL THE RUSSIANS. BASED ON ATO WHETHER ORMOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION

WITH IRAN.

HAKIM: NORTH.

HAKIM NORTH:

ME JUST FINISH ABOUT THE BUSINESS OF WHAT WE EXPECT THE RUSSIANS TO DO. WE EXPECT THAT THE RUSSIANS ARE PROBABLY COINC TO MAKE AH EFFORT TO TERMINATE ALL ASSISTANCE TO THE AFGHANI HUUAHEDIW^

((INT^^SX^I

INSTFUCTIONS %RE=4HAT THE PRESIDENT NEEDS TO KNOW WHERE WE ARE OOlNd'lfJ OUR RELATIONSHIP SO THAT WE KNOW HOW TO RESPOND TO THAT BECAUSE) THE SOVIETS WILL MAKE THEIR PROPOSAL PUBLICLY KNOWN. ANDIET PROPOSAL WILL SOUND VERY VERY PEACEFUL. AND THIS IS THE*MAN OP PEACET"AND HE UANTS TRANQUILITY AND ALL THAT.

WHENHIS MORNING. WHEN WE SENT THE MESSAGE IN OUR LITTLE MACHINE THERE. WHEREVER THE HELL THAT IS. I WAS ASKED. WHERE ARE WE GOING" DO WEELATIONSHIP WITH THE GOVERNMENT OF IRAN THAT WE CAN BE SURE THAT WE WILL BE ABLE TO CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THE AFGHAN RESISTANCE'*

QUICKLY THE PRESIDENT POLICY ADVISORS THAT WE OCETHER.

HAKIM: INTERPRETS)>

NORTH AND OBVIOUSLY THAT IS GOVERNED CAN PUTRE MOVING IN THEECTI

HAKIM;

f.-ORTH ALL OF THE THINGS THAT YOUED ME TO DO. ARE POSSIBLE

WE CAN GO TO THE ARAD GOVERNMENTS^AND START TALKING TO THEM IN REASSURANCE .

HAXIM: NTERPRETS))

NORTH AND I CAN CET THE INTELLIGENCE THAT VOU HAVE ASKED US TO GET BUT ALL OF THAT IS GOING TO BE DETERMINED BY THE SENSE THAT WE ARE ABLE TO COMMUNICATE. THE THREE OP US WHEN WE CO HOME. AS OUR REPRESENTATIVES ON THIS COMMITTEE- AS TO WHERE WE ARE GOING

NORTH

HAKIM NORTH

HAMM NORTH

WE HAVE EVEN BROUGHT WITHIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OFGIVE TO YOU REGARDING THE IRAN-IRAQ'

((INTERPRETS))

Mm

AND WE ARE PREPARED TO GIVEETAILED BRIEFING AND LEAVE WITHAP

((INTERPRETS))

THAT'S ENOUGH SERMON

FTER CONFERPING QUIETLY WITH SAMII)) I'M GOING TO TRANSLATE SOME THINGS AND THEN PLEASE HOLD YOUR ANSWER. UNTILET BACK. AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND SOMETHI NC HE SAYS, HAVE YOU GENTLEMEN

NORTH: MAKlrl-SECCRD: HAKIM*

WORTH:

HAKIM:

NORTH.

HAKIM: NORTH:

HAVE EXPLAINED THAT EACH ONE OF VOU IS COINC TO FORM HIS OWN INDEPENDENT OPINION OF THIS MEETING. AND THE THREE OF YOU HAVE TO ACREE AS TO THE DIRECTION THAT THIS MEETING IS GOING. AND HIS QUESTION IS, HAVE YOU BEEN ABLE TO DETERMINE TO WHERE THE DIRECTION OF THE MEETING IS COINC. PLEASE DO NOT GIVE ANY ANSWER THAT WAS THE TRANSLATION.

HOW WORD "UNCLEAR) ) GIVE OUR ANSWER. LAUGHTER. ))

,

((LAUGHTER))

NOECAUSE "THERE IS.. I KNOW EXACTLY

I

UENOW

IRANIANS DO NOT

BUT HE KNOUS

NO. LET ME EXPLAIN JHIS TO YOU. IRANIANS IMPLY.

COME'TO THE-POINT AND SPELL IT OUT AND I'M GOING TO TELL HIM UNLESS HE UILL COME OUT AND SPELL IT OUT. THERE IS NOT COINC TO BE ANY GODDAMN GUESSWORK THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TOHEN SPEAKING TO SAMII IN PERSIAN. HE SAYS)) WHEN AN AMERICANEPORT. HE CANNOT SAY. "MY IMPRESSION HAS SUCH AND SUCH -HE MUST SAY. "THEY SAID SUCH AND SUCH " ORE ALONG THIS LINE.HEN, SPEAKING TO NORTH, HE SAID)) NOU, PLEASE GO AHEAD AND ANSWER

YES. IN GENERAL WE HAVE CERTAINLY THE SENSE THAT WE ARE PROCEEDING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. BUT PERHAPS TOO SLOWLY. AND TIME. AS UE SAY IN AMERICA, EAN. UHAT UE REALLY NEED TO DO IS TO CET ONUMBER OF VERY VERY UELL-HANDLED SPECIFICS THAT ALLOW US TO MOVE IN THE DIRECTION WE BOTH WANT

MAYECOMMEND. NOTOLITICIAN AND GIVE STRAIGHT FORWARD ANSWERS I SEE CONTRADICTIONS WE SAV YES. AND THEN LATER ON WE SAY WE WANT SPECIFICS

LOOK. IT IS VERY CLEAR TO ME THAT HE AND I WANT TO TAKE OUR GOVERNMENTS AND COPECIFIC DIRECTION

( (INTERPRETS)>

IT WOULD BE ONE THING FOR ME TO GO HOME ANDT AND AIRLIFT OF ESSENTIAL ITEMS FOR IRAN. AND HAVE MY ASS HANDED TO MEAN'T CONVINCE MY LEADERSHIP OF THE NEED TO DO THOSE

THINGS .OR THE WISDOM OF DOIHC THOSE THINGS

INTERPRETS))

NORTH' AND HE MIGHT WANT TO GO BACK HOME TO IRAN AND DECIDE..THAT, THEV WANT TO OPEN AN AMERICAN EMBASSY IN hRAN, AND NOT CONVINCE HIS LEADERSHIP OF THE SAME THING.

. NTERPRETS) )

CAVE

((IN PERSIAN)) SAME PROVERB ElISTS FOR BOTH OF US. DONKEY DOESN'T ALWAYSDATES "

north

SO UHAT UE NEED TO DO. AND 1 THINK WE NEED TO>^IT RELATIVELY. SOON, BECAUSE TIME IS RUNNING OUT. WE NEED TOHAT VERY PRACTICAL TMINCS. BETWEEN THOSE TUO NICE OBJECTIVESWAT I JUST DESCRIBED. UMAT PRACTICAL THINGS CAN WE DO TO CET C< WITH THE BUSINESS OF PROCEEDING UITH THE STRATEGIC RELATIONSHIP

HAKlM. INTERPRETS) > THUH THE BEClNNlNC IT HAS CLEAR THAT UE WANT TO COOURSE OF COOPERATION WITH ONE ANOTHER. YOUR NEEDS AND OUR NEEDS BOTHORD UNCLEAR.)) BUT AS OF YET. THERE IS NO PRACTICAL PLAN AVAILABLE. CHEDULE AND WITH AN UNDERSTANDINC OF THE VARIOUS STEPS WHICH CAN BEFEWPTHINC TANGIBLE IS IN HAND.

OU^HAVE_ASKED, US FOR INTELLIGENCE PROVlDEi""'AT LEAST INITIALLY.

EW WEEKS AGO. HE ASKED US FOROF MILITARY HARDWARE SOME OF THOSE are ft^oTKERS. AND WE ARE PREPARED TO MOVE ON THOSE

WE ARE PREPAREDTART ON THAT INTELLIGENCE. YOU WE ARE IN THE PROCESS OF ACQUIRING

NTERPRETS))

NORTH TODAY. YOU ASKED ME FOR SOME MORE INFORMATION. AND I'M GOING TO CO OUT AND CO FIND IT AND CET BACK TO YOU ON THAT

NORTH.

I THINK THOSE ARE PRACTICAL cSTEPS THAT WE CAN TAKE ON OUR SIDE MY FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEMSAME ONE THAT WE TALKED ABOUT WHEN AL 1 WAS'INE HAVE IN OURERCEPTION PROBLEMAJOR"OBSTACLE THAT SITS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD OF PROGRESS. "

NORTH.

MY SENSE IS THAT IN ORDER TO PJfOCRESS ON THEAY IN WHICH WE DO NOT EXPOSE' THIS RELATIONSHIP AY THAT DOES NOT CREaTE^A* SENSE THAT THE SOVIETSNEED TO INTERVENEWITH EITHER THE KGB ORNEED TO WORK VERY QUIETLY TO ACCOMPLISH CERTAIN THINGSTO BUILD THAT RELATIONSHIP I THINK MUCH THE SAME WAY YOU HAVE TALKED FOR. I WOULD LIKE TO PUT. BASICALLY. AHOW WE CROW THAT RELATIONSHIP TOGETHER. BEFORE MY PRESIDENT CO HOME.

HAKIM

HAK IM

,FfLT

GENTLEMEN, I THINK WE ARE COMING TO AN UNDERSTAJ THAT EW WORDS UNCLEAR ND I HAD TO DRAW

EXPLAIN THAT. WHAT HAS HAPPENED. YOU KNOW, EPRESENT IN THE FORM OFERE TALKED ABOUT AND ALMOST AGREED ON.

THERE WAS NO

UNDERS THAT YO AND PUT TRT5 IT IS NOT CLEAR TO THE

BOTH ON THE IRANIAN SIDE AND THE AMERICAN SID CODDAMN STEM HERE TO HOOK THESE THINGS TOUNCLEAR ND NOW HE EXPLAINS TO ME THAT. E HAS TO DO THAT. BUT THERE ARE LARIFIED FOR THEM THEREFORE THEY CAN NOT C* SKELETON TOGETHER FOR THE DISCUSSION SUCH AS. THEM WHAT YOUR POLICY IS IN CONNECTION WITH SADDAM HUSAIN MESSAGE THAT -WAS SENT?ITTLE BIT UNCLEAR

HE RAISED THE ISSUE OF THE TOWS THAT ARE TO BESAID IT

IS HOT CLEAR AID THAT I DISACREE. IT IS VERYALL

STUCK OUR NECKS OUT AND STARTED TO PACK THE DAMNWE CAN

DELIVER^HEM^INj^ NEXT EIGHT DAYS

HAKIM

NORTH

CAVE NOR TM

HAKIM NORTH.

SECORD

NORTH

HAMM

NORTH:

HAKIM:

EAMII :

M

((INTERPRETS)> WHATJARE THESE ITEMS THAT ARE EASY FOR YOU TO HANDLE ANDfWHAf ARE THE DIFFICULT ONES'* HE 'RE GETTINC TACTICAL HERE UEfIS THIS LIST HE WANTS TO KNOW IF YOU ARE GOING TO GIVE THEM. HO-lrX.'Y, ANDE WANTS TO BE ABLE TO WRITE IN FRONT OF THESE ITI

THE LIST THEN

THES TOGETHERARRELS

OKAY. YOU'RE O SHIPLOADS OF STUPF LET ME START AT THE OTHER END. LET'S START IN CHRONOLOGICAL TERMS. BASED ON WHAT YOU

HAVE TOLD ME SEVERAL DAYSYOU EXPLAIN THE VERY DIFFICULT

PROCESS. BECAUSE WE DON'TORMAL DIPLOMATIC RECOGNITION, WE DON'T HAVE. SALES. ITERY DIFFICULT PROCESS WE HAVE TO CO THROUGH TO GET THIS WITHOUT EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD KNOWING WHAT WE'RE DOING. HAS THAT BEEN EXCKlNED^

( (ASKS SAMII IF HE UNDERSTANDS^SAMI I SAYS HE DOES >>

OKAY BECAUSE THAT HAS CREATED ENORMOUS COMPLICATIONS WITH MP CHORDANIFAR AND MR KAHGAPLU BECAUSE.

AND ALSO FOR

OH YEAH JUST TERRIBLE PROBLEMS^SeCAUSE OF THE METHOD THAT WE HAVE TO USE TO OBTAIN THESE ITEMS ABASED ON WHAT YOU HAD TOLD ME SEVERAL DAYS AGO. I PUT MY ASS OH THE ClKE'wlTH THE PARENTCOMMERCIAL COMPANY THAT WE USE TO HIDE THIS--AND WE STARTED ORDERINGANDOWS AND THE REMAINDER OF THE HAWK PARTS THAT WE HAD AVAILABLE

((INTERPRETS!) ADDS THAT MATERIAL CAN BE IN TEHRAN'ORKINU DAYS.

THISAWK PARTSOWS. INE ITEMSOTALARTS.

PLUS THREE PALLETS OF MEDICAL SUPPLIES FCR WHICH THEPE IS NONTERPRETS)>

THAT WAS ORDERED HERE WILL BE)) NTERPRETS))

((INTERPRETS)) EW WORDS BY KANCARLU"'

NORTHIN-NORTH. HAKIM NORTH:

THAT'6 INCREDIBLE DID YCU TAKE THIS BACK WITH YOU? SEED)HE GIVEOPY OF THAT? J

UESTION TO ASK AWKS. ARE THEY THAN?

Ff. WHEN WE SHIPPEO THE FIRSTCHE OF WHICH CANE IN WHILE WE WERE IN TEHRAN. US. AND THE PEST OF IT CAME IN AFTER JENCO WAS ALL UE MAD AVAILABLE FROM THAT LISTT

ANOARLU HAS DENIED THAT HE HAS ASKED FOR THESEINE ITEr

NTERPRETS))

NORTH: THIS IS THE ACTUAL LIST THAT WAS GIVEN TO US BY KANCARLU. AND OHORBANIFAR CAVE US THE SAME LIST.

ORTH: SO ue WERE ASKED TO

OF SIDE "A" TAPE)

OME CONVERSATION MISSED UHILE TAPE WAS BEING TURNED. ))

HAKIM

IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND WHY^WE DIDN'T HAVEEW WORDS UNCLEAR)) THE HAWK SYSTEM YOU HAVE. WE DON'T USE ANYMORE

HE KNOWS THAT.

AND SO IT'S HOT UNUSUAL TO BE OUT OF CERTAIN PARTS IN THAT SYSTEM HAKIM: NTERPRETS))

HAKIM:

NORTH.

HE APPARENTLY HAD GREAT. .AFTER THE ORIGINAL ARRANGEMENT EW WORDSO FORMAL WRITTEN CONTRACT. BUT AN UNDERSTANDING.

THEN THEREREAT CONTROVERSY WITH KANG' CHORBANIFAR OVER WHAT HAD BEEN PAID FOR. NOT BEEN VERY HONEST IT WAS ALMOST REASON FOR EVERYBODY ONj -FORGET ABOUT IT - BECAUSE WHAT EVERYBODY LOOKEI MISSED))ALL THE DAMN PHONE CALLS TO ME FROM THE HIM . IT WAS CRAZY. OKAY

THE 'D CONE

((INTERPRETS))

SgjaiN

SO WE WENT BACK AND UE TOLD THEM, SOMEWHERE SEPTEMBER. UHAT IT UASHAD NOW COLLECTED

KMC CASES AND ACTUALLY BOUGHT FROM THE PRODUCER? HAD THE PARTS TO MAKE UP THE BALANCE OF THAT ORIGINAL REQUISITION

CAVE: ND-TH

HAO ARM* GO CET THEM.

YEAH ITERY SECRET PROCESS. SO THAT UE DON'T HAVE EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD LOOKING AT IT. AND THAT IS AN EXPENSIVE PROCESS. MUCH OF THAT WORK HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE PARTS HAVE BEEN ASSEMBLED. SOME OF THEME STOPPED EVERYTHING WHEN YOU TOLD ME THERE UAS NO HONEY WE STOPPED EVERYTHING

NORTH

HAKIH: NORTH:

WE f VE'/alSO TAKEN STEPS TO OBTAIN THE TWO RADARS THAT HERE ASKED Ft

frXRPRET

"' TWO RADARS THAT ARE PHASE TUO RADARS; THAT'S THE NEXT CENERATjOrtpF HAWK SYSTEMS AND WE HAVE TOLD THE ARflY TO PREPARE^*NCfwTl HAVEN'T DONE THIS. ON'T WANT THE ARMY TO SEE THE WHITE HOUSE BEING IH ON THIS THIS IS ALL BEING DONE BYAUGHTER)) SAM'S COMPANY

WORTH:

HAKIM: NORTH

(INTERPRETS))

HR1

O PREPARE TO REVERSE ENGINEER THOSE ITEMS AND TO PACK THEM FOR AIR TRANSPORTORT WHICH ISRELATIVELY NEARBY UHERE UE CAN FLY THEM IH AND TRANSLOAD THEMlP THAT CAN BRING THEM IN TO BANDAR ABBAS

<(INTERPRETS))

WE HAVE ALSO TAKEN STEPS TO ICENTIFY IN THE ARSENALS OR. IF YOU WILL. THE BUNKERS. ADDITIONAL TOWS TO BE MOVED VERY QUICKLY

NTERPRETS))

NORTH. NOW THERE ARE REASONS FOR THATJ ALRICHT? FIRST OF ALL. YOU HAVE THE TOWS ALREADY. YOU DON'T NEED a'l-HOLE BUNCH OF TRAINING ON THE TOUS. AND THEY CAN BE AIRLIFTED VERY QUICKLY.

NORTH

HAKIM: NORTH

HAKIM NORTH

HAKIM. NORTH:

INTERPRETS))

THERE ISHILOSOPHICAL REASON OUR PRESIDENT HAS TOLD ME TO TELLOLDUE ARE PREPARED TO HELP IRAN DEFEND ITSELF AND TO MAINTAIN ITS TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY.

D ARE

((INTERPRETS))

THE ITEMS THAT WE HAVE IDENTIFIED CAN BE MOVED PRINCIPALLY DEFENSIVE IN NATURE

NTERPRETS))

THEY ARE ALSO ITEMS THAT YOU ALREADY HAD. AND ARE NOT OOINO TOBY THE SOVIETS. SUDDENLYfirififcVuiNQVnEW "

iRtrliw *

((INTERPRETS)>

HAKIN:

^CONVERSATIONS COINC ON AT ONCE IN BACKGROUND. >)

FRpiETs1^THESV HAVE THE HONEY AVAILABLE FOR THE SCO TOWS RICHT 1day. GIVE TO USEW WORDS UNCLEAR. ))NDERSTAND

TOGETHER. CAVE AND NORTH TALKINGER OF THE CONVERSATIONS >>

((INTERPREWT-^OKAY. LET ME CIVE YOU THEORD IN* NUTSHELL. WHAT HAS BEEN GOING ON BACK ANDS TRANSLATED SOME OF IT THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THEY HAVE CHANCED THEIR ORDER OF PRI^rItIEB THEIR IST OF EIGHT ITEMS- AND ITEM EIGHT WHICH IS IN THEIR REQUIREMENT IS THE HAWK MISSILES. THEYHEIR POSITION IS. .ALSO RESOLVE THE OTHER SEVEN ITEMS AS TO WHAT OUR POSITION IS. SO THEY CAN REACT TO THE WHOLE THING. I SEE AN ISSUE HEREAVE TOACK AMDASK HIM BECAUSE BEFORE WE SAY THAT IN EIGHT DAYS WE WILL BEP THE, UH. OIVE US THE MONEY TO SEND THE HAWK MISSILES. NOW HOW HE'S COINC TO FILL IN

THIS AND CET BACK TO YOU

RSTAND MR. SAMlI HERE. ON THE

DICEST IN MY COMPUTER UNLESS IT'S CLEAR TO YOU

I ONTRADICTIONEED TOACK AND CLARIFY GENTLEMEN IS IT CLEAR TO Y

ONE HAND HE SAYS THAT THEAS CHANCED; PRIORITY ONE. WHICH WAS FORMERLY THE HAWK SPARES. IS ITEM EIGHT. AND THEN EARLIER HEE THAT IN EIGHT DAYS HE IS COINC TO PAY FOR THE HAWK PARTS

AND

hakim:

BUT LET ME JUST CO ONE STEPFATHER. BECAUSE I HAVE TAKEN THIS LIST. AVE TAKEN IT TO THE PRESIDENT. AND HE IS VERY CLEAR ON IT.

((EXPLAINS THE APPARENT CONTRADICTION TO SAMII. BAM11 EXPLAINS AND HAKIM BAYS. INKAY AGAIN THEREISUNDERSTANDINC ON 7tmat HAWK? WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND- ASSUMING THAT YOU SAY THAT YOU CANNOT SUPPLY THE SEVEN ITEMS.

NOAID THAT.

HAKIM: NO. NO I DIDN'T SAY THAT YOU SAID THAT OU HAVE TOLD ALI. AND YOU HAVE TOLDRIAOOINC OVER THE SAME THINC. BUT I'M TRYING TOOUNDATION FORORD UNCLEAR)). I'D LIKE TO SAVE THE REPUTATION OF MVVlRANIAN FRIENDS HERE. OKAY? THAT'S WHAT I'M AFTER REALLY.-THE ORDER OF PRIORITY HAS NOT CHANCED AND I WANT YOU GENTLEMEN TO UNDERSTAND THAT HE SAYS TODAY IF YOU DON'T CIVE USWILL CO AHEAD AND BUY THE HAWK PARTS CODERSEW WORDS UNCLEAR )) ONE OF THEM IS

CAVE: IN OTHtR WORDS THEY WANT TO CET THE MOST FOR THEIR HONE

YOU OUGHT TO SEEe It LNQ THAT WE'VE COT. WHAT I'M TRYING to DO FOR YOUND I'VE SPENTEARS OF MY LIFE IN THE MILITARY THAT'S IMPORTANT...

north:

HAKIM: north:

WHAT THE'^PREs'i^EiJTvTOLD ME TO DO was TO BUILD THE BEST POSSIBLEWE COULD ON THE IRAOI WAR HE DIDN'T CIVEULL^NTELLICENCE*>AJKACE BACK IN FEBRUARY.

((IRJEPPRETS))

Ea'if'd* on THE INTELLIGENCE OF WHAT WE THINK WE KNOW ABOUT THE iraqis. AND BASEDRJTnTElLICENCE ABOUT WHAT WE KNOW OF YOUR MILITARYD>fKT7WE THINK THE SOVIETS WOULD DO IF THEYHAT^WE *WERE DO INC TOGETHER. IST OF" MOST NEEDED

ITEMSECOMMEND TO YOU

NORTH;

HE ONLY PUT ONE CONSTRAINT ON WHATID. "YOU WILLE SAID TO ME. "RECOMMEND ITEMS THAT WOULD ALLOW OR ENCOURACE THE IRANIAN ARMY OR THE PASDARAN TO SEIZE BAGHDAD. "

SAMII: HAKIM

NORTH.

HAKIM.

NORTH

HAKIM;

SAMII:

HAKIM:

NORTH:

HAKIM: SAMII; HAKIM:

NORTH

SN'T IT YO'JR UNDERSTANDING FROM EVERYTHING THAT YOU HAVE SEEN THAT BAGHDAD IS HOT ONE OF THEIR OBJECTIVES"*

MY FRIEND. NDERSTAND THAT. CTu*_LY BELIEVE THAT BUTNE HELLIME CONVINCING PEOPLE LIKE CASPER WlNEBERCER AND GEORGE

((INTERPRETS))

AND THAT'S an IMPORTANT FACTORNTERPRETS!)

E SAYS THAT YOU. THEY DID NOT BELIEVE THAT THEY COULD SEIZE FAW. BUT THEY DID

THAT'S WHAT SCARED THE HELL OUT OF CASPER WEINBERG SHULTZ. AUGHS))

((INTERPRETS))

HAKIM: INTERPRETS) > AND If THEY DO. IT UILL BE TOO LATE

SAMII: TELL HIM THAT I'M JUST JOKING.

NORTH:

WORTH:

WEINBERGER. IN OUR last SESSION UITH THE PRESIDENT. said. "I DON'T THINK UE^SHOULD^SEND ONE MOREABOUT THE HAUKUNTIL Wt HAVE OUR* AMERICANS BACK FRDH BEIRUT. BECAUSE WHEN THEEOPLE fl.nd OUT THAT THIS HAS HAPPENED. THEY 'LL LKINC^TO the PRESIDENT.

-RETS) )

UENT THROUGH THE LIST WITH THE GENERAL AND THE ADVICEithTh"7tTie GUIDANCE THAT THE PRESIDENT HAD GIVEN US. , BASGLpN UHAT WE KNOW IS COINO ON IN THE REGION. AND XPECTOF.THE IRAQI PLANS. WAS; IMPROVE AIR DEFENSE ^PgyiDE ANTI-ARMOR DEFENSE; AND GET YOU THE rOU heed SO THAT YOU DON'T DECIMATE WHAT'S LEFT OF THE PASDARANj AND THEN SEE UHERE ue 'RE GOING BEFORE UE HOVE ANY OF THIS. he. THfc PRESIDENT. DIDN'T SAY NO TO ANY OF THIS -

>

SEEING WHERE UE ARE GOING UITHILLION DOLLARS. OR

IDEA UHAT ALL THAT IS GOING TO BE OVER

AND HHEN HE'S TALKING ABOUT "SEE WHERE WEHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT IS. VERY PRACTIC. THE UAR. THERE'S NO POINT IN WHATEVER THAT COMESF YOU DON'T NEED IT BECAUSE

OULD YOU CIV BECAUSE THIS LJST IS BASED ON

RECOMMENDATION ABOUT THIS LIST, ERATIONAL PLAN THAT THEY

((INTERPRETS)>

I UNDERSTAND

AND THEY WANT TO UNDERSTAND YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT THESE LISTS

I THINK. AFTER HE HAS SEEN THE INTELLIGENCE. MY PRAYER FOR THOUSANDS OF YOUNG IRANIAN YOUNGSTERS. IS THAT SOMEBODY THINKS VERY CAREFULLY ABOUT THAT OFFENSIVE OKAY'

((INTERPRETS))

((SAMII AND HAKIM TALK QUIETLY IN BACKGROUND. TIME OUT FOR NORTH AND CAVE TO MAKE PHONE CALL

THEIR LIST OR OUR LIST^ SECORD THEIR LIST NORTH

LET ME THEN, WHILE YOU ARE DOING THAT. CO OVER THEN*FOR MR: SAMII SOME OF THE THlNCS WE SAID IN WASHINGTON ABOUT THIS LIST AND HOW IT RELATES TO THE. STEP BY STEP APPROACH TO IT AND THE HOSTAGES.

3

FCft IT PCU_ITlC*LL-rVllHlM "iUuW CGUHTRTT THE PRESIDENT UNDERSTANDS THAT OKAY UE TOLD ALI WHEN HE WAS IN OL* COUNTRY THAT WE UNDERSTOOD AND RECOGNIZED THE NEEDERCEPTIBLE VICTORY FOR THE IRANIAN PEOPLE.

NORTH

HAKIM:

NTERPRETS "FORS FOLLOWS) > YOU MUST BELIEVE THAT WE UNDERSTAND THAT YOU NEED THIS OFFENSIVE THE PRESIDENT ALSO"ARE SENSITIVE TO THE DESIREICTORY BY THE IRANIAN PEOPLE THESEEU WORDS UNCLEAR)) HAVE BEEN SAID REPEATEDLY. CENTlEmEU ARE SAYINC IS NOT THAT YOU SHOULD STAGE AN OFFENSIVE. WHAT THEY ARE SAYING IS ALONG THE LINES OF JU SHOULD DO TO REACH YOUR OBJECTIVE. UFEU UORDSE VARIOUSPATHS TO VICTORY. THE COURSE UHICH SHOULD BEBE DISCERNED BETTER IF YOUEW WORDS)) INFORMATION

THE PRESIDENT HAS SAID . AND I SAID THIS TOND I FLEU UP TO CAMP DAVId TO'TAL* TO THEND HE SAID. NDERSTAND WHY UE SHOULD^DD^VEPYTHINC POSSIBLE TO INSURE AN HONORABLE PEACE FOR IRAN. "

I(INTERPRETS. BUT SAYS "HONORABLE VICTORY" INSTEAD OF "HONORABLE PEACE"))

NON'T EXPLAIN THAT PLEASE

WHY YOU DON'T EXPLAINEM

CAN ACHIEVE VICTORY

BECAUSE I'M NOT SURE THAT CUR COMPATIBLE

111 NTERPRETS i

[FIMTIONS OF VICTORY ARE COMPLETELY 1

11

HAKIM

E SAYS HE CA'.'ROT'TJNDERSTAND WHY YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND BECAUSE HE SAYS FORiTHEH (iFEU WORDS UNCLEAR))

SADDAM HUSAIN OKAV. AND I DON'T KNOW QUITE EXACTLY HOW THAT'S ALLO TO WORK OKAY** ONE OF THE THINCS THAT UE WOULD LIKE TO DO IS THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO BECOME ACTIVELY ENGAGED IN ENDING THIS WAR INAY THAT IT BECOMES VERY EVIDENT TO EVERYBODY THAT THE CUY WHO IS CAUSINC THE PROBLEM IS SADDAM HUSAIN

HAKIM: NTERPRETS))

NOW UST LAST FRIDAY TALKED TO THE KwFERE TO TALK TO FIVE. OR IF 1 WERE* THE OTHER MOSLEM LEADERS. THE* WOULDN'T SAY SADDA PROBLEM TMEVD SAY IRAN IS THE PROBLEM

north

HA"IM: NTERPRETS) /

Nt-ntH

IS NOT CHE REAL P

WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ROCESS BY WHICH ARA3 WORLD COMES VERY QUICKLY TO REALIZE THAT TO THFn. IRAN IS NOT GOING TO OVERRUN KUWAIT.!

OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT OF SAUDI ARABIA.

RrOF'THAT^ flEC,DK' ADDAM HySA'N- AVE

IM

AKIM NORTH

HAKIM

THIS IS THE CONCLUSION THAT YOJ HAVENTERPRETS AS!) DO YOUR REALLY BELIEVE THIS"*

YES. THE INNER CIRCLE OF OUR GOVERNMENT KNOWS THAT. THEY HAVE COME TO UNDERSTAND.-THE ONLY THING THATRINKLE IN IT IS THE TWO NEW.

rwnin;

SECORD ANT TO ADDRESS THIS LIST JUST AS WE DID IN WASHINGTON

(SAMIAND HAKIM CONFER QUIETLY IN THE BACKGROUND- U. 6 NEGOTIATORS TALR.PRIVATELY AMONG)THEMSELVES SEVERAL CONVERSATIONS COINOIMULTANEOUSLY. )> /

((END OF TAPE)

SECCRD.

WITW^HAMm AND SAM] C QUIETLY TOCETHFR. HISPERING. EU PHRASES CCJLD BE HEARD AT HAKIM SAYS. 'THESE PEOPLE THINK THAT THEY ARE TALKIMC INTEGRATED CRCUP. SO THAT IF YOU SAID ANYTHING IME WaS^HERE. THEY DON'T HAVE TO REPEAT IT ALL TO YOUiEM/o. S. PARTIES ENTER THE ROOM AND SEVERAL

INO PLACE SIMULTANEOUSLY. THEN TALKS RESUME. >)

THIS ?INTEL?. MAY I ADDRESS THIS LIST? I'M COINC TO ADDRESS THIS LIST. THERE ARE SOME TERRIFIC PRACTICAL PROBLEMS HERE. THEREOUPLE OF REAL. AS OPPOSED TO PHILOSOPHICAL. PROBLEMS UITH THIS LIST.

THE FIRST IS POLITICAL.

((SAMII LEAVES THE ROOM AT THIS NEGOTIATORS DISCUSS STRATEGY UI IRANIAN SHOPPING LIST. THEN MR.

FIRST PROBLEM IS POL1TICAI. BASED UPON PREVIOUS OFFICIAL REQUESTS OF THE IRANIAN GOVERNMENT. I E. KANGARLU, AND VERIFIED. AND I WOULD UNDERLINE. DESPERATEJIEQVESTS FROM HIM. FOR TONS FOR HAWK PARTS AND FOR HIGH POWERED JflADARS. WE HAVE ACHIEVED PRESIDENTIAL AUTHORITY FOR IMMEDIATE* AIR DELIVERY OF THOSE ITEMS.

IM NTERPRETS) >

SECCRD: KANCA9LU CAN DENY THIS OR NOT DENY THIS IT IS IRRELEVANT. WE HAVE DOCUMENTARY PFCOFi IT'S NOT EVEN WORTH DJSCUSSINC.

IM

-a- IM SECCRD:

TE-fpet5-.

4

WHICH SEEMEDVS

e.

WE ALSO.

CORD:

Hill:

Kin-

RTH:

MP!

-.in:

:

MISSED)i. THIS UNTJ

NT FERSI PROBU

hostaTces !

( (IN terr'

-off

WHEN YOU HISSED))

((IN PcRSIAN)) IF YOU LOOK AT THESE ITEMS INDIVIDUALLY. IT IS NOT DIFFICULT TO OBTAIN TMEM. BUT just TO TAKE THE FIRST STEP. TO

( (FEW WORDST IS NECESSARY TO ELIMINATEPROBLEM. ue DO NOT DARE to START STIR THINGS UPTING PRICES. IN ENCLISH TO. SIDE))

AY. AT THISINDPPROPRIATE TO EXPLAIN TO HIM WHY THIS IS DIFFICULT TO START UITHcOT^RC-lTICAL SUPPORT AND ADD WHAT

YOU TOLD ME EAPLIER. '

LET me. OKAY? EVERYTHING THAT THE ocnehal SAID IS ENTIRELY ACCURATE. WHEN ue LOCKED AT THIS LIST. WE ESTIMATEO THAT. EXCLUDING THESE TWO ITtMS. THE HAWK AND THE TOWS. UE ARE LOOKINGINIMUM OF FOUR SHIPlOADI CF EOUIFMCNI

((INTERPRETS)1

THOUSANDS OF FE">LE IN INIMUi UOULD KNOU ABOUT THAT. ('INTERPRETS)I

IF WE ARE GOING TO CO SOMETHING IT HAS TO EE VERY WE ARE DOUG THISAUSE WE AREOILITARY'HE PEG IONOLITICALANO HONORABLE. SOLUTION IRAN- IRAQ -VR

im:

-

:m

"H

<iINTERPRETS': 'I3UT SAYS 'tpe WORLDUNDERSTAND THAT "WE ARE EMDAPKINCOURSE TOALAWCf OF POWER THATiMUST. SE

the underthat the wcrlo has.

IN offer FOR USE SEEN ASOLITICAL RqffiM^ BALANCE IN THE >IL.'TAR, SITUATION. OUR JUS TIF JCATi 0lv?0R THAT, WE MUST ?EEElL OTHERt, TO INCLUDE OUR OWN PEOPLC^ThATCASPYINOITH THE

.

IN OPfER r'jfi tO iKrtuE'WITM THcSSc'Ii

that isacceptable to cjr people. Mlave

THAT rock in THE THAT OBITAClE. AMD PUT IT BEHIND US.

ft that 'he

IK Tl'E

THAT SATURDAY WHEN ALI MAS'IN WASHINGTON. LEW UP TO CArtP DAVID TO TALK TO THE PRESIDEN T. ill THE LIST. AND HE SAID. "WHY ARE YOUO SO 5KAU.7*

a

^Xll^^iWT RIGHT THERE. AND HE WENT LIKE THISisS THE TA3LE--AND HE SAID. "FOR SCIlEtt* WHO SOS YOU HAVE. NORTH. YOU SHOULD UHCCTSTANO THAT TO ENO THAT WAR ON TERMS THAT ARE ACCEPTABLE TO IRAN

'j-'ht TOSIMPLY HELP CO OUT AND KILL MORE IRANIAN YOUNGSTERS WHATABGUTILLION PEOPLE WITHOUT HOMES? "HAT ABOUT TkFo'I^I'n^STRY WHICH IS ALREADY IN RUINS? WHAT ABOUT THE INDUSTRIAL BASE OF IPAN WHICH IS BEING DESTROYED? STOP COMING IN AND LOOKINGUN MERCHANT. AND HE BANGED ON THE TABLE.i WANT TO END THE WAR. "

Aft Wr

AND EVERYTIME WE GET TO THE POII WE FIND THIS OBSTACLE SITTING INJ

:re we can act in that regard,

middle of the road.

NTERPRETS WHAT HAKIM IS SAYING TOROM THE FIRST DAY.

AND IT WASNT SASEO CN YOUR OPINION OR MY opinion. BUT ThETHAT WE HAVE COT TO GET RID OF IS THE HOSTAGE THING. AFTER A ALF. LOOK WHERE WE

AKIH: (iINTERPRETS)' I THINK LIKE VQU DO IN THE EVALUATION OF THIS SUBJECT AND ITS SOLUTION.

!^rCP--Pt*S' BUT HOW CA* I DEFEAT YHf PRESTIGE CVWTPf SMIiCT CONVINCED THAT I HAVE SCVtT

( IILSO UNDERSTAND Tr-AT THE MAIN PROBLEM IS WHAT >OU JUST

i SK'AD reositionO SACK"?'ANDi.eali-? "ran that ant *ou TO PJT at crA>'E JCStf^ONOR.'cp Th;: S3 a

hetave in leoancn. .

1 ON.

.Mi^Iagm WE>E J> IN jL-V. gwwSci

SAMII

HAWIM:

we MOULD have resolved it.

THE *ahC*JaY^TRAT. the other hostages were released

LISTEN TO WHAT WE HAVE TO SAY.

HAKIM:

iUNTE^slmE MUST PUT AT STAKE THE SU3STANCE THAT WOULD BE EQUAL

HAKIM

NTERPRETS) > AND YOU KNOW THAT EVENJO THIS MT*. WITH THE TEHRAN HOSTACES WE ARE STILL UFEW) IN A

HAKIM"

('INTERPRETS> > THEREFORE. PLEASE UNDERSTAND MY PROBLEM. ANNOT CO TO IRAN AND SAYUTILLION DOLLARS IN THE HAGUE ISSUE. AND I DO NOT EXPECT IN THIS MEETING TO RESOLVE THAT.

AMI I

NAfcin-

NTERPRETS) ) AND HE IS BEINOY REMINDED THATASE THAT THERE WERE NO OTHER PART IEB^INVOLVED. IF IT WAS ONLY IRAN ANO EW WORDSTILLESS IN THE HAGUE. HOW THE SHUATICNE IF THERE; WERE OTHER ELEMENTS INVOLVED.

HAKIM"

E MUST UNDEFSTA'iDYE nCNFIPENCE

I have TO gain

FDA mqrsear wc,alc-C'je with >UK fR, rlu to PROVE TO MM that itAS speak iNCJ OF

i i

CAVEr

NORTH: HA-IN-NORTH:

IN HIS ROCH IN THIS CITY. PIOEO UP THE PHC-NE, AND ORDERED THEOWS. OURS LATER. THEV ARRIVED AT BANDAR ABBAS.

r' -

NTERPRETS) .v.

((IN PERSIAN)AS THREEALF MILLION DOLLARS IN DEBT.OOVERNHENT.

SINCE THEN. WE HAVE SHIPPED A0 MORE TOWS.-'

WE DELIVERED ALL Of THE mauk PARTS THAI HAVE BEEN REQUESTED THAT WE HAD ON?

NORTH:

HAKIH* NORTH.

m

THE PRESIDENT SENT TO TEHRAN ONE OF HIS MOST TRUSTED ADVISORS. WHEN ALI WAS IN WASHINGTON. HE ASKEOURTHER SIGN THAT HE COULD TARE 3ACK HOME ABOUT OUR SINCERITY.

I(INTERPRETS))

HE MENTIONED TWO THINGS SPECIFICALLY. THE VOICE OF AMERICA AND THE HAGUE. THE FOLLOWINO FRIDAY, THE EXACT WORDS I TOLD HIM WERE BROADCAST OVER VOICE OF ACER ICA.

NORTH.

HAKIM: WORTH.

IM

-OATH

n.

ORTh,-

h -in

WORDS THAT HE AND I HAD AiflEED ON. .ANO. SINCE THEN, TWO BIC CASES IN THE HAGUE HAVE BEEN

NOW IF YOU THINK THAT LIST OF WEAPONSIG PROBLEM. VOU OUGHT TO TRY THE HAGUE CPAY? IFFICULT PROBLEM. THE CLAIMS TRIBUNAL N EVEN MORE DIFFICULT ISSUE TO WORK THAN THIS

(<lNTcRf=fc?S) ) AMII DOESN'T SEEM TO KNOWCLAIMS * IS ))

tm lK TMc

WHOOURT CASE INVft.VJI* THE GOVERNMENT v

s'T O.VEMENT IN THAT

(ii

E IS RELATIVELY LIT'LiCTIVITY

home T- BAMS PFCSi. Em

-atNTERPRETS'

MD OODIH -

(UNT'EPPs-ETS))

th:

HAr IHi

hakim: north:

hakim: north.

hakim: ngfth

N I go 2AC* I ALL LE NEED TO DO IS TO FRDVE OUR COOD FAITH AND IRAN WILLHAT he kuom TOERY. VERY DIFFICULT STEP IN TIE LEBANON- -WE UNDERSTAND THAT. THAT IT ISRAN WHO.HOLDS THE AMERICANS. -

NTERPf

AT THAT IS ERT DIFFICULT STEP FOR IRAN

TO THE FRESI DENT A'JD TO HIS CLOSEST ADVISORS II THAgftelARE HOPlf.'C-THAT AN WILL USE ITS INFLUENCE WITH THOSE IN THEfLEBANON TO CAUSE THE RELEASE OF THE AMERICANS AND THE OTHER HORACE?.

NTERPRETS i)

WE RECOGNIZE THAT THOSE WHO HOLD THE HC-STACES MOST WANT THEIR BRE1HREN WHO ARE HELD IN KUWAIT AS CONVICTED TERRORISTS FREED.

VERY. VERY PRIVATELY WITH THE KVWAIJriS. LAST FRIDAY, WE HELPED TO TRY AND SET THE STAGE FOR THATF THING TO HAPPENIRECT DIALOGUE BETWEEN IRAN AND

im

th.

m interprets) <

we have assured ThEvery. VkRV experienced

the dawa prisonersJwe their business bui you should know,veryatectgjjg hat what that means is that if

the kuwaitis decide to release JTHEm! over some length of time or forRELICIOUJ reason. that wegoing to criticize tkem anoape not going to ask that they be extradited to the

ham in:

-ukih,

:*th

n

<iinterpret?))

' iws. ucsy ivcptant decision that cur

that can

'--EPS At-t RELlGIOjS

countryTA* cN BAtEb

NOV. VOUGTKt ee used TO release MlfrUNCKS.

( i'

Yfcu0 th KNOW WHAT The Kuwaiti**lahT.in Cf

release Those prisoners

EKpflCTS) i .

rvme kvwattissomebody

ecjoo f Tlrte

attacks cn Twoe -

#1K

'..iuDGTun -H'lemo HOlD OUR AMERICANS ANDW" THAT RELEASE AND HAVE VOW TO ASSURE IT.

NORTH.

E^NE IS TRY TO ACTESPONSIBLE WAY BUT VERY. VERY. DISCREETLY.

((INTERPRETS))

WE HAVE TRIED TO REASSURE YOU THAT OUR INTERESTS CO BEYCND THE HOSTACES. THAT OUR OBJECTIVE IS TO ASSURE THE POLITICAL SOVEREIGNTY AND TERRITORIAL IN1ECRITY OF Iff

HAMM: NORTH

HAKIM: NORTH.

HAKIM: NORTH:

NORTH

((ENO OF SIDE(IPCRTION OF CONVERSATION MISSED'IN FLIPPING TAPE))

TO DEMONSTRATE OUR SINCERITYUMBER OF WAYS TO YOUR

AND TO TAKE THOSE STEPS VERY. vfjcV^ VERY DISCREETLY WITH KUWAITTHAT CIVCS YOU 3ETTE* FPEEOOM CF ACTION REGARDING KUWAIT.

((INTERPRETS))

ME ARE PREPAREDE ABE PREPARED RIGHT HOW TO LAY OUT BEFORE YOU VERY, VERY ESHS1TIVC INTELLIGENCE WHAT ME Kf-XIW OF THE IRAS! MiuIT-fi- ED FOR IN WASHINGTON

((INTERPRETS)

MN THE MARS THAT .'OU AfKRO FOR INAY, BETO HAVE SIvtM 'HEM r0

C< INTERPRETS,.

Ar.D TO v. VERYI>i. ADDITIONALK TO LIE TO *rK -CSTA5E P INP0A9

NOR TH

il*:AV LAL- TO DO BECOMES KNOWN BECAUSE OF

i'Cc SERVICE. IT IS IMPORTANT THAT THAT ISS'jg 5EMJUD -g

CAVE: I OINT TO HAKE ABOUT THIS LIST THAT I DON'T KNOW IF THE GENERAL MADE THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT FROM MY RESPONSE FOR GETTING THISHAT I THINK THAT HE SHOULD BE AWARE OF THAT THE MATERIAL THAT WE HAVE SHIPPED- THE TOW MISSILES. ARE EXPENDABLES. AND THEY* ARE EXPENDABLES IN THE NATURE OF WHICH THERE IS REGULAR

>- - RODUCED BECAUSE THEY APE IN SUCH WIDE USE. SO

THAT if IS VERY EASY FOR USAIN" CAN" GO DOWN THIS LIST ' AND POINT OUT TO HIM THAT THE PR02LEM UE HAVE WITH THE HOWITZERS IS THE TIME LAG THAT IT IS GOINC TO TAKE. BECAUSE TOARRELS IF WE DO IT ALL FROM AMERICAN SOURCE. OWED HOWITZERS PLUSARRELS. TNEY'PE GOING TO HAVE TO OPENRODUCTION LINE.

SECORD: YOU WOULD UNDOUBTEDLY. AND WE SAID THIS IN WASHINGTON. LOOK AT THE WORLD-WIDE FRIENDLYINTERESTS?)> ANO VERY SELECTIVELY GO AND BUY THEM.

O TELL SOME ALLIED. SOME COUNTRY, THAT WE WILL LOOK THE OTHER

"AVE: BUT EVENINGLE COUNTRY THEY WOULD HAVE TORODUCTION

LINE.

"ECORD: WE MIGHT GO TO THIS COUNTRY, THAT COUNTRY. AND EITHER PROCURETHEM OR LOOK THE OTHER WAY AND LET THEM PROVIDE AT LEASTOF.'i-.

AHW: 3RTH.

AVE: SPEAKING NOW TO THEHE TOW MISSILES WERE VERY EASY FOR US BECAUSE THEY ARE EXPENDABLES OF WHICH UEOT. (vE'PLAINS THE ABOVE CONVERSATION. ))

O INTERPRETS ALL THE ABOVE. )) IV

LOOK. ALL Or THIS IS TO SAY THAT ALL OF THIS AND MOPE CAN BE DONE. BUT WE NEEDRE PROOF OUR PRESIDENT BY REMOVING THE OBSTACLE.

at wefe ocne, and I THINKe have both acted to set the SiACE FOR that toTHEHING uepe behind us. ano I

0 *ei the stage for that

NTERPRETS)Th

.-'e 'TAW tOumber ofou see

'1 inf"cn shipping them tp your when. because of arms dealers like

-Kim

FROM o'tiiER

ou an example mr. t

MR V. an*uiXuying WCAP'OnS

^lEllother weapons AndNlCH *ke- avaIlaSlE.COUNT-UESA^ff vC AM PWTo

NTERPRETS)). -

SAY "CERTAIN THINGS TO HAPPEN IN OURHE HOSTAGES?

YES. AND I'M NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT OUR HOSTAGES. I'M TALKING ABOUT THE WESTERN HOSTACES.

NTERPRETS) > HFN, TOHAT COMPLICATES IT??

NORTH. NOW. I UNDERSTAND THAT. THISOMPLICATED ISSUE. THIS THING

HAKIM: NORTH:

HAKIM: MHII: iORTM: SAMII: HAKIM

RIGHT HERE. LET ME CIVE YOU AN EjfAMPLE. THIS PARTICULAR ITEM RIGHT HERE IS MADE IN ITALY AT THE RATE OP ABOUT IOOOONTH.

( (INTERPRETS) >

BUT THERE ARE TUO ITAI IANS WHO ARE MISSING IN BEIRUT. THEY ARE MISSINCj THEY MAY BE DEAD FORKI.o'J

((INTERPRETS) )

cA't'/n

D QUI

SINCE WHEN'

I don'T HAVE THAT WITH ME.

((interprets) ) he says that ie is HEaMNS it from you fcr the first tip:=i it is veryhat voj are keeping them as

does anyone know where ali is**

ave.

orth: no. outALK? where hid he co'- is Ht lying akim. sks samm where ali is s where he is.

*EFSlANi) WHAT'S HER?

^pth a:5ka-<ly dipfichis jot started.macte

kim nterpfets)>

. . .

MIX

*lw NTE*r':.rETi. 'teZhinav :hat wit oucht'to act in"

ttt he SELIE.es IN that. to CO

- and list TmE GOOD THINGS that THEV HAVE DONE FOR Its.

HE HAKE JUST ONE LAST POINT. ;T'S YO'JR TURN IT IS ALSO IMPORTANT.tothat our APPROACH IS NOT THAT OF

_*KIrt:

orth:

iAKIfl: AMI I: orth AMII: AKIM*

opth

AKIM* DRTH

AKIM CRTMM ?RTH

Win

th

>"TH.

THAT'S NOT BE YOU) REASON. IT CCJUT HAPPEN. ONTINUESTHOUGHT)) THIS PRESIDENT MOULD LIKE TOCAN TELLI'VE LISTENED TOVISION IS THAT WHEN HE IN l'S" WE WILL HAVEIPLOMATIC RELATIONS BETWEENAND

((INTERPRETS)>

1

HE WOULD LIKE TOEnEMBEPEO AS^AJflAN WHO HELPED TO BRING PEACE. IF YOU WILL. TO THE CHRISTIAN AND MOSLEM AND JEWISH PEOPLE IN THIS WCRCD

SPSS HEM Ol* HDly BOOK.

HAT'S KtIN'ERPFETS"

it ISN'T home SHORT-TERM thing JvST to cet reelectedIMI'E'jIaTE BPOBLPMi AND "nXN pdrset aboutCUG-terh VISiON

. itWECRlrVvt'

HS KNOWS THAT SADTAM HwSAIN LE JtPLgT JvE>)

co ahead ATS HIS word. OT MINE

TheThat We"are aMUTTo give ytv we have "never civcn TO*

aatbcdy Ir. ISOVNTkV with WHOM

UE have diplomatic RELATIONS.

NORTH:

TH-

CAVE! NORTH; CAVE: NORTH-

(INTERPRETS)'* IF

KNOWN WHAT WE ARE GIVINGHAT we ARE CIVINC YOU FlfcANT VULNERABILITIES ON THEIR PART.

VSR BECAME KNOWN WE HAVE DONE THIS. WE WOULD BE FINISHEDREDIBILITY AS LONG AS PRESIDENT REAGAN IS PRESIDENT.

RETS))

ALI ASKED FOR WHEN HE WAS JN WASHINGTON.

THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT WE DON'T HAVE IT ON A AP BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE THE RIGHT MAP SHfeETS. AND WE ARE GOING TO GET THEM FOR YOU. THEY ARE ON PLATES AND THEY AREO THEM.

north-

'ave: samii:

:ave:

he wants to kn corps.

YOU MEAN THE ARMY OR THE CUARD

ave: orth.

AVE:

'-Mil:

ave;-.

*HESKED ABOUTinO THE MILlTAOy SINCE THEY PLAN TO USE THIS ON^LY^flTH THE S

E bea5cw foa 'his isthat. even among'

ThF'^LIGEKCE ANDS CCNTR^led BY

AV.Iil-

HORTH:

HAKIM:

WORTH:

HAKIM:

NORTH

HAKIM; WORTHTH

HA- IM:

NORTH

HAMMj-

Ill"

- 7iPF

1

ltft^

WHO?

AND DID WE SHIP ANYTHING AFTER THAT?

WE SHIPPED THE HAWK PARTS IN JUNE.

AND ANYTHING AFTER THAT?

NO. WE SHIPPED THE INITIAJ

US ONE PALLATE CF HAWK PARTS.

*(INTERPRETS)>

AND THfcW IN JJ-hE WEHAT WAS JUL if

AND THEmG THAT HAP-ENeKSFTER THAT WAS. FATHER JENCO WAS RELEASED

AFTER THEHlPHEHT? WELL - LEAC-ED CIPST AFTtf->V.9LG

RIGHT lane

load OPTS allAD AVAILABLE

rnelse afTCr that:

11

NO talk LOTS OF talk *

SfJO'

I I'iu t

';:-

OTi;.

ft r= SO TMAT THESEAT a'JD THEY CAM TA'*- TO THEIR RESPECTIVE <CFEU WDORDS MIt'SED* 1 IT'S BEEN DAMN NEAPCUftS ITEE* 11 *iPVSS TODAY

HAKIM- <(

I USTack ave

HAVEO'K LAY. ANDONG DAY AMONG FRIENDSONG DAY.

-HAKIM: AMXZ:

HAKIM. L'AS ITood DAY OR WAS ITood day?TH: ITOOD DAY.

IAMXI:

HAKIM: DID you LIKE THE MEETING?

/

iORTH: ATE ALL meetf'-KIM: NTERPRETS) >

THISOOD MEETING. 1 THINK THAT Wt HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING AS TO YOUR PROBLEMS APE

INTERPRETS:

IT stic UNDER STG

1NTERFPCTE: i

-CP** ncerstaniiIMG OF WHAT OUR PROBLEMS

rt'tKlrt; !

--fettkrMS _of each

IM ;r.

mm

RAtT;tAUSTEPS AND

. Bf-EAK EW HOURS OP

i. fiiEFEW WORDS>> :T AI& SO DO WE-

L 1

HAKIM WORTH.

HAKIM: NORTH.

HAKIM: NORTH.

HAKIM: NORTH;

HAKIM. NORTH:

IM: "JCfl TH

it

l!1

P".ES SAVE PECN 6IVEM* PRESIDENT. MINTERPRETS;I

]T IS ALSO MADE IN THE CONTEXT of THE VfcJSY REAL POSSIBILITY THAT ALREADY KNOWS ABOUT THIS AMD WILL H'KE IT PUBLIC. MAKEi -

< (INTERPRETS))

IT IS MADE WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU ARE PREPARING AN OFFENSIVE AGAINST IPAQ.

(<INTERPRETS))

IT IS MADE WITH THE RECOGNITION THAT The. IRAQIS ARE PREPARED IN MANY WAYS FOR THAT OFFENSIVE. AB YOU UUST SAW FROM THAT INTELLIGENCE.

((INTERPRETS)>

AND THAT IT IS MADE WITH THE RECOGNITION THAT THE IRAQIS ARE RIGHT NOW WOPKINCUMBER OF DIFFERENT AIRCRAFT SUPPLIERS AND TRAINERS TO PREPARE FOR MAJOR ATTACKS AGAINST YOUR FUEL OIL AND YOUR ECONOMIC INFRASTRUCTURE

((INTERPRETS)>

AND LASTLY IT IS MADE WITH THE RECOGNITION THAT WINTER IS COMING.

(iINTERPRETS-'

OR THAT UE TAKE TOGETHER THE

i willHAT WE ENGAGE FOLLOWING 3EVEMSTEPS

(<INTERPRETS)I

PREPARE TO wRITF. t'JWN THE f'ROPOSAL) >

ONE ,OV PPOVirC the FUNDSFOR THE PURCHASE OFOWS a.'NPEiSrTO BRING YOUR HAWK SYSTEM

-* WD EF-SCZVE

Mi-JTER"ET=i

* ming made available

Ij,;

R Vr

THi".

wiwL PC WHERE rCLl.EREI)"

i". RPLA'fE IT & Ti.'0 AIRPLANE

north

hah in rORVH

OR TM.

BAMll:

CAVE. NORTH:

m.

JOPTH

t^TH a> IHm -'III

in

HUSSM THPSE. tOU MOULD USE'" VC?>IN LEBANON TO CAUSE THEM T3 FELfiASC ALL CF THE AMEPKAN HOSTAGES.

i(INTERPRETS)

STEP NUMBER FOJR. YOU WOULD THFNHE FUNDS FOR0 MORI TOWS.

(UNTERFFETS)i

((IN ENGLISH INAUDIBLE OUESTIOH DIRECTED AT NORTH. ))

FIRST I'VE HEARD OF IT. 1 THIN* UE OUCHT TO PUT THAT CN THE LIST OF FUTURE THINGS BECAUSE UE DON'T HAVE IT IMMEDIATELY AVAILABLE. LET ME JUST GIVE YOU AN IMPORTANT POINT.

((IN PERSIAN. O FEW UORIyS)) .. SINCE WE ASKED0 TOWSAUNCHERS

LET HIM*

i

WE HAVE LONG AGO STO'FED USING THfc KINO CF TOW LAUNCHERS THAT YOU HAVE WE NO LONGER Utl IT. WESED OREARS

((INTERPRETS)*

HOWEVER. IT IS POSSIB.E. Llr-E IT IS WITH THIS LIST. TO FIND THE OLD LAUNC mpk.E

(iNTERr FcTS'

EUT TmAT tA^.E: "IHB

mm*.

JHA7 - TO YOUsiRY OUICK PROCESS

a,jd it

. MANy

[matin Bmrti>

ile's iu

iavk:

PERUROBLEM. NO. uimaud13LE)>

SUPPOSING WE CAW FINDEW OF!fc THAT

hakim .

orth. hakim:

;ave:

MOflTH:

seccrd:

-JORTH;

EECOOD

'jorth:

hakim

N"*ll%

he wants toif you know the effect OF the second or third cenerat1cn of im on th-nd if you don'T you do?

oh yeah. it coes through them like butter.

<<interprets)>

A HtAD-oh shot?

yeah. if you if oh cod!

yeah. because they've had some troubles with head-on shots.

what ThEt did is theylace to shoot. ide ancle. (ut seeks north isicture to illustrate what he is baying.hat's THE front of what you do. instead of aiming lou like here. you aim right here. what THE missile does issle glances up and it goes off right there. it'll hit. it'll slide up and IT BLSU's the TURRET CLEAN off the top of the tank

.VST abgeW.

t'EAH. IM fIGHT above this pointead-on shot. aim right ABOVE BECAUSE?ointed NOSE and if you aim right above it THE MISSILE WILL hit AND SLIDE RIGHT up into that groove BETWEEN THE 7UFUET and THE HULL AND it blows THE turret right OFF

THE ITET KILLS EVERYBODY INSIDE IT.

NTERPRETS*

e ave

- FIFEC THf iAHE Ulv. ON't slow the TURRETthf. ai/jTHEF fiOur-'C

im

' he FWts*

: nc tfCvS of

* :wo..

A, H 2 Ti-aT-AV- system iff*

Ituto help ^achwwftw.

S. I.

IkteWl _'_

echnical support

will HE sent to see

ti-iTC*ePUV -itDOS that the communicationsl HAVEES. *J

r.-jFTH P NUK3CR SIX RETVSN OFODY. UE KNOW HE IS DEAD. CFi Of THE OESPIEF. THE HIZBALLAH. TH= 4CO PACES OF DEBRIEF INFORMATION; AMD THE RELEASE Of JDN PATT1S. WHO WAS ACCUSED of PY BECAVSESTUPID.

HAKIM: NTERPRETS. LEAVES OUT THE FACT that. KNOWS BUCKLEY IS

DEAD. ALSO HE DOESN'T meN HIZBALLAH. HE SAYS. HE INFORMATION GAINED FROM

NORTH: NOW WE DIDN'TUT PATTIS HERE TODAY BUT I RAISED PATTIS WHEN ALI WAS IN WASHINGTON AT THE WHITE HOUSE. FATTIS WAS NEVERPY. PATTIS WAS DEBRIEFEDUR FBI WHEN HE WOULD RETURN. THAT IS TD THE UNITED STATES FROM IRAN.

tINTERPRETS)>

THATORMALONE WORD. ))

INTERPRETATION REGARDING

((FEW WORDS/) KNOWS HIS SOURCE?'

no! I MEAN HERE'S THE WAYNAUDIBLE) )

(UN PERSIAN* 1 WHEN AN american GOES to IPAN. WnlLE HE ISWKPI-S) > THEY see he was IN IRAN, THE FBI ALWAYS ASKS WHYTO

ue CO THISEOPLEFT-DM WMFN PEOPLE RETURNT 3CSHANY. LACES whereHAVE DIPLOMATIC REPRESENTATION.s TH ellep IS : HERE ANO WHEN HE COMES back INTO THE

u S WC fcllo--fl

secord WESV,

'*srt > coke rack iij

lf* isa stamped from

East CERrt^:ix vcu uubt came from east

" . -als coldwould r he hall who has okk people

SA-. k'M

e r

Wt -CrLLECT. .

-

a^v"

KINDt> OF

Mucin

HEARD'ohO was in very

(ifew words UNClEaR.ean. as farure.working for caw'ture out why he _

-'hakim?: his cowc=KtP. used to WORM for me. he knows him very well north. and he was an effective employee. i think it was stupid of him. hakim interprets

cave: n persian)) the fbi didn't even disseminate his report. when

they talked with him. they didn't cet anything worthwhile.

didn't publish it. when you arrested

north: step numeer seven . will then co out and find /

those parts or items are and start working through y

mechanism you want to make sure that yc'j can buy theseright now therelock on these things.

hakim in

north let me just explainittle bit. what we would do is we would find out for example on these anufacturer who we think would be discreet and not screw him on the price. and . however you want to work it. chorbanifar or kangarlu or what's his name you tell us who you want your agent to be. we will go andn the company that makes these things and say. we're going tolind eye don't screw them on the price. don'tut it.

hakim in iERFf-ets

fth iL VOV right WON that in the case of things thatery definite signature. if fOU WlLL. like radars. we're wind to make sure that its not american it will be european or

asian. sincapork or korea

mwin interne tc

n5pth- t want that t0 ke american, because" the

ould mck vp immediately thatn 1

K*>ir

VORTH s'.'A 'ft L A-e* ALL "rtfia*ts that you would

SHCftL t > '?

H4 ^fVit cense 'in it

1*1

V

TO MJCW IF -Ii II-M-

V

'**OF.

"itfT'D TALK WITH

' ' Cntc-c

kANT

HAKlH INTERrPETS BAHI1

A SEVEN OR UN ITEM PROPOSAL. AND IT IS POSSIBLE THAT IN THAT PROPOSAL THERE KAY BE POINTS WHICH CONPLICT WITH TOSSYOU PRESENTED DO SOU HAVE FULL AUTHOR IZAT ]ON AT THAT TIME TO ACCEPT THAT LIST ('FEW WORDS UNCLEAR II

HAKIM INTERPRETS NORTH

IT MAY BE NECESSARY THAT I CO BACK AND REVIEW THAT WITH MY PRESIDENT AND THE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR. THE LISTAVE TO YOU. HE COULD AGREE CN TONIGHT CR TOMORROW MORNING. AND THINGS WOULD BEGIN TO HAPPEN THEHING THAT CNANCES WILL DO IS DELAY THINGS BECAUSE I WILL HAVE TOACK TO THE U.AVE TO CO BACKUST. BECAUSE MY PRESIDENT IS GOING OFF TO ICELAND. AND MUCH OF THIS ISO DONE IN THE CONTEXT OF WHAT IS AS OUT TO HAPPEN BETWEEN US AND THE SOVIETS IN ICELAND. HE WANTS TO KNOW WHETHER OR NOT WE ARE HEADED QUICKLYOSITIVE DIRECTION WITH YOUR GOVERNMENT BECAUSE HEE KNOW THAT THE SOVIETSGOING TO MAKE SOME PROPOSALS THAT WE DO NOT LIKE REGARDING AFGHANISTAN.

HAKIM IN1ERPFETS SAMII NAUDIBLE*)

HAKIMRPKETSDOESN'T THINK THAT IT WILL BE NECESSARY FOR BOTH croups TO GO SACK AND CONSULT THEIR GOVERNMENTS. AND HE ALSO BELIEVES THATFEW WORDSOTH GROUP! KE MAY COME UPON ISSUES THAT WE CAN AGREE zh PEGAPDINO AFGHANISTAN. EW WORDS MISSED)).

SAMI I.

IM INIEPTRETS NC AFGHANISTAN. HE WAN'S TO POINT OUT THAT.

PECPDi.ES? -mat THE SUPERPOWERS may AGREE UPON. PAKISTAN, OR

fghan fcrVnENT. ANY THINS that ot IN LINE WITH

THEthe NISHT9 t* theMO-'AHEOIW) i THEY WILL CONTINUE TO

pcwkuied ..

h'^he^viT**nV-

i.ea.se at-xauj3 tan uncondi

THfc ENT AFGHANISTAN MUSTTEMMINEDEOPLE AND "HKErETURN. WE ARE NOT GOING[CHAT TYPE OF COVLOfJTF'JT ThEV SHOULD HAVE IF THE PEOPLE THEYT COWTRt. SO iE IT ' y T!Ji.t_ E CAN NOT AGREE TO 1* lSIN OO 'JOT PARTICIPATE

- n rr, the>^r

fc-h=

*' uj- ! Mis FPEBENTING SIGHT THERE was a

t,.at we ace hfaded in that

WO TnCV.vT i WJCHTED. THOSE iEvEN STEfS. WOULD MOVE FAIRLY OUlOL' inlRVCTlON. iT IS DESIGNED ONCE AGAIN TO PROVIDE THE ASSURANCE E COVING FIRST.

H.'KIH iNTERFPETS

r.-CFTH- HE COULD5 FIND THING Wl THAND SAVE THE

PROBLEMS Of IT DIRECTLY. 3UT IT PECOftES INSTANTLY MORE EXPENSIVE. MUJH MORE CONFUSING. AND ALWAYS THE SUBJECT cf POSSIBLE EXPOSUREthe PRICE LIST THAT UE UORKED UP IS EMINEN1LY FAIR. IT IS AN HONEST ACTUALOR THE UAY IN UHICH UE MUST DO 3USINESS UNTIL WE CAN REOPEN EMBASSIES.

HAKIM INlERPRETS.

NORTH: IT IS THE MOST DISCREET UAY UE KNOU OF GIVING WHAT THEY NEED IN ORDER TO SUSTAIN THEMSELVES. TO DEFEND THEMSELVES.

SECCRD: UHEN UILL UE ADJOURN TO LET THEM THINK ABOUT IT?

HAKIH INTERPRETS.

I:

HAKIM INlERPRETS BEFORE UE ADJOURN HE UISHES TOERYORTH. WHO IS THIS FROM? HAKIM THE GOVERNMENT CF IRAN. SAMII:

HAfclH) . PRESIDENT REAGAN SHOULD RECOGNIZE THAT IRANERY EXPANDED MANNERIGHTING COMMUNISM IN THE IRAOI UAR.

nAKIll INlERPRETS. =VA TmIS MOVE. HE SHOULD TAKE INTO COWSIDERATION THAT while ThEYING UITH THIS SPRCAO OUT FRONT HP'H IPAQ THERET -TJCN WHERE THE IRANIANSVE TO FIGHT ANOTHER :f* Zf AFGHANISTAN.

I:

: K *'SV CONSIDER IT THEIR DUTY IN THE REGION. THE pf*IXAfJ '. THE REGIONERY PEACEFUL MANNER

f-'I I

. it very*oaj recognue that protect in Persian culf nations

vd;bleto motcct *vw*n, eaudi arabia. and the

".

-u t e >MITED states can understand

AS MjCh TnEi"depstanc- t'FEu Ant)l protecting the region against

cckhuhism

iakh: 3vl this is our belief and we are acting on it hon, if others

understand that and accept it. it willetter fdr us. if they do

t.-ot accept it. ue will act inith our beliefs anyhow.

1AMII INTERPRETS. Will: NAUDIBLE) >

INlERPRETS. IF THIS HONORABLE VICTORY IN THIS WARINAUDIBLE))

I: ANO AS LONG AS YOU NO PEOPLE LIKE ME BELIEVE IN THIS REVOLUTION OF OURS. YOU CAN BE SURE THAT. UNDER NO CONDITION, WILL WE HOVE AN INCH FROM OUR POSITION.

'AKIM INTERPRETS.

<(SEVERAL EXCHANGES INAUDIBLE.))

iAKIM INTERPRETS. AND IF THEIR YOUNG PEOPLE SHOULD LEARN THAT THE REVOLUTION HAS LOST ITS HA IN ATTITUDE OF NEITHER WEST NOR EAST, THEY WILL NO LONGER REMAIN WITH THE REVOLUTION

AMI I:

-AKIM INTERPRETS THE FACT THAT THE MESSAGE THEY HAVE RECEIVED THAT

PRES1TENT REAOAN HAS ACCEPTED AMD RECOGNIZES THE REVOLUTION AS ITOO A ERY "IMPORTANT*- ISSUE WITH US.

<(END OF

SECORD:

NORTH:

SECORD:

NORTH:

CAVE:

SECORD:

NORTH:

CAVE:

NORTH:

CAVE:

SAMII:

CAVE:

SECORD:

NORTH:

CAVE: SAMII: CAVE: NORTH:

BIDE A

CHECK FOR INUTES. HE IS THERE BY NOW.

WHERE IS THE STUFF TO XEROX. I COT IT.

((MEETING IS BREAKINO UP AT THISHEO. OOORE COMING.

((INHIS ISHICH IS BRAND NEWHAT'S THE WHOLE COUNTRY. THE WHOLE BATTLE ZONE.

((INND LATER SINCE HE DON'T USE THEM VERY OFTEN THEY ORDERED. ..

THE PILOTS NEED THOSE.

HOWEVER YOUR PILOTS NEED THEM VERY MUCH.

THOSE THINGS THAT WE OUTLINED FOROOK.FEU WORDSECAUSE UE KNOU YOU USE.

THAT'S CORRECT.

THIS ISNAUDIBLE))

OKAY. WELL tHAT'S THE SAME SCALE AS THAT. WOULD YOU MAKE DAMN SURE... EAN THAT'S... THESE ARE RESTRICTED. EAN THESE NOT THE REGULAREW WORDS MISSED)>.

((INHESE ARE NOT ORDINARY. THEY ARE RESTRICTED. THESE ARE AIR MAPS. CORRECT? USED PRIMARILY BY PILOTS?

((INES MOSTLY DUR MILITARY USES THEM. THESE ARE NOT FOR COMMERCIALMAPS BEING

NORTH SECORD: NORTH: SECORD:

NORTH:

NO. SEE. HOSEThERE NE IN HERET DEPENDS ON THE SCHEDULE THAT THEY WEREN WHICH MAP IT IS.

YEAH. AND SOME OF THEM THEY DON'T UPDATEHIS IS1 NFOLDING MAP.)) ECEMBER

((TURNING TO SAMII.HE STAMP IS RIGHT HERE. IT IS THE MOST RECENT ONE THAT WE'VE GOT AVAILABLE. THIS5 AND THEY ARE NOT OPENLY DISTRIBUTED. EAN YOU CAN'T BUYO...

INTERPRETS

SECORD: WEHREE MINUTES.

NORTH: WHO?

SECORD: THE WHOLE CROUP.

((IRANIANS CONVERSING WITH ONE ANOTHER BUT THEIR CONVERSATION IS

HISPER.)>

CAVE:

ALI WANTS TO THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR EFFORTS. WE ARE COINC TO CONTINUE TOMORROW.

CAVE:

AND HE LIKES TOERSONAL OBSERVATION THAT GODF ORB ID. IF THERE SHOULD NOTELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE COUNTRIES HE CONSIDERSREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR HIMSELF THAT HE COT TO MEET YOU PEOPLE AND YOUR WAY OF THINKING BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR HIS THOUGHTS.

CAVE:

HE WAS PLANNINO TO BRING IN WITH HIM EXPENSIVE GIFTS FOR YOU PEOPLE. BUT SINCE MR. HAKIM TOLD HIM THAT OUR GOVERNMENTEW WORDS MISSED)). HE WOULD NOT KEEPEW WORDS MISSED)) AND HE DIDN'T WANT YOU TO LEAVE IT IN STORAGE. THEREFORE HE OBTAINED GIFTS THAT ARE NOT AS EXPENSIVE. BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT EXPENSIVE HE SEEKS YOUR FORGIVENESS.

CAVE:

THIS KORAN IS IN EXCHANGE FOR THE BIBLE THAT THEY HAVE RECEIVED AND ITASSAGE THAT BROTHER SAMII NAUDIBLE)) AND. HE'S PRAYING FOR THE DAY THAT THE REAL OFFICIALS OF THE TWO COUNTRIES WILL EXCHANGE SUCH GIFTS.

YOU'S EXCHANGED. ))

CAVE:

IFTET ME EXPLAIN THIS HERE. HE KNOWS THATNAUDIBLE)) SUPPORT THIS RELATIONSHIP AND HE LIKES TO EXTEND HIS

SECORD:

WISHES FOR IT.

USAMII RECIEVES THANKS FOR HIS GIFTS )) . NEGOTIATORS PRESENT GIFTS TO IRANIANS. ))

NEXT TIhE MR. SANHEN WE KNOW YOU ARE COMING. MAYBE I'LL BRINGOLD TOW LAUNCHER. AUGHTER. ))

APE INSIDE.

((NO PERSONAL CONVERSATIONS HEARD. ONLY NOISES ARE THATELEVISION OR RADIO APPARENTLY "AID IS IN THE ROOM COVNC ABOUT HER BUSINESS.

((IRANIANS ARRIVE IN ROOM AND CARRY ON CONVERSATIONS. MOST OF WHICH ARE INAUDIBLE. >)

((BREAK IN TAPE >>

JORTH: I'LL TELL YOU WHAT BOTHERS HE. THE GERMAN SECURITY SERVICE IS ALL OVER HER EXPLETIVE) ). -

AKIM: THIS ONE LOOKS LIKE IT HAS NOT BEEN CLEANED.

ORTH AKIM DRTH

((INAUDIBLE. .

THE CLEANING SERVICE LEAVES BOMETMINO TO BE DESIRED.

THE HOTEL SERVICE IS UNCERMANLIKE.

WOULD YOU CALL AND ASK IF WE COULD HAVE SOME COFFEE- THERE ARE FOUR NEW ROOMS IN YCUR NAME.

HAKIM?: WHERE?

3RTH: . THEY'VE OOT TO BE OUT OF HERE.

VKIM: THEY PROBABLY ARE GOING TOO FRANKFURTNAUDIBLE)). ILL SEE.

WTH: OKAY. THERE ARE FOUR ROOMS IN YOUR NAME. THE SAME ROOMS. AKIM: DID YOU WATCH THE NEWS YOURSELF?

DRTH: YEAH. I SAW IT THIS MORNING. OKE UP TO IT.

-KIM: ALLS ROOM SERVICE FOR COFFEE FOR FIVE PEOPLE AND FOUR PEPSI'S. ))

((IRANIAN ARRIVES.TH: DID ME EXPLAIN TO YOU ABOUT THE SHIFT?-

AIM: (ISAPELY AUDIBiE. MENTIONS NEW LOCATION. )

((SECORD GETS MAID TO CLEAN UP MESS LEFT BEHIND ))

,TM: C( INAUDIBLE)) TO HAVE THE INFORMATION THAT WAS GIVEN US YESTERDAY BACK HERE BY... I SHOULD LEAVE NOT LATER .

1H: NAUDIBLE))

BAHRAMANI

HAKIH- IN THE NAME OF COD. HE IS HAPPY TO SEE THAT THE FEW WORDSND SOMEWHAT PERSONAL DISCUSSIONS AND HAVEOINT THAT-HE CONSIDERS IT TOICTORY IN'OUR RELATIONSHIP.

HAKIM: NTERPRETING. )) HE WANTS TO THANK THIS OROUP THAT ACCEPTED THE BURDEN IN COMINO HERE AND ESTABLISHINC THIS RELATIONSHIP AND HAVING THE MEETINOERY POSITIVE ATMOSPHERE THAT 7HELPED? US TO UNDERSTAND THE DIFFICULTIES OF EACH OTHER MUCH BETTER.

((AIRPLANES FLYINO OVERHEAD ARE RENDERING MOST CONVERSATIONS INAUDIBLE. ))

JAHRAMANI:

-(AKIM: INTERPRETING. )) HE WANTS TO THANK BOTH PARTIES AND

CONGRATULATEFORO THEIR CALM. BECAUSE OF THE DIFFICULTIES BOTH PARTIES HAVE EXPERIENCED AND ARE EXPERIENCING IN THEIR COUNTRIES. IN THE UNITED STATES PROBLEMS SUCH AS MR. SHULTZ AND THE MEDIA AND IRAN. PROBLEMS THAT NR. SAMII HAS REFERRED TO IN THESE PREVIOUS DISCUSSIONS. HE IS VERY HAPPY TO SEE THAT WE HAVE MAINTAINED OUR CODL AND CALM AND HAVE NOT GIVEN UP.

AHRArtANI:

NTERPRETING.)) THE LAST THING. THEY'D LIKE TO THANK

MR. SECORD AND MR. HAKIM FOR HAVING SUPPORTED THIS CAUSE AND CONTINUE TO SUPPORT AT LEASTEW WORDS MISSED) UN THIS CONTACT BETWEEN THE TWO COUNTRIES.

AHRAMANI:

nterpreting.e is confident that we are realizing the change of channel of communication from the previous one to thisfew wordso you that it is the right channel and he assures you that this channel has full authority on all issues, svch as the war. lebanon.o discuss with you completely

ahramani:

akim: nterpreting.o wants to make abrief statement in

connection with your remarks cf yesterday for the contact of thf mich-level officials of the two countries. since this was not an

i&sue that was discussed in Tehran ano he has not received any

authorities. he hopes that you don't ml no for him to addressforthcoming

-HRAMANI

A INTERPRET INC. )) REOARDINCEMSHEY HOLD*oJ IN AND FEW* WORDS*

SUCH AS THES. WE HAVE FULL AUTHORITY TO COMMIT THOSE AN

THOSE AREOOrt SERVICE ARRIVES. )>

NVITE THIS CUV TO COME VISIT US. CAN WE do THE SAME THINGTHE LASTANT YOU TO ASK HIMEAN IF we DID _ -

( (COFFEE

AHRAMANI:-

AKIM: HE WANTS TO PICK UP WHERE HE LEFT OFF. HE SAID THAT THOSE ITEMS THAT YOU CAN PICK UP UNCONDITIONALLY.. NTERRUPTED BY ROOM SERVICE. )>

ahramani:

AKIM: NTERPRETING.)) MR. SAMII HAS BEEN MORE INFORMED ON

ALL ISSUES. AND YETEWHE POINTS WHICH THEY HAVE REORGANIZEDESULT OF YESTERDAY'S DISCUSSIONS. THEY/ ARE GOING TO DISCUSS THESE POINTS WITH YOU AND HE HOPES THAT THERE WILL BE AN ACREEMENT. SHOULD THERE. NOT BE AN AGREEMENT. THEN THE WAY TO GO ABOUT THIS IS TO TAKE THE . NEW INFORMATION TO THE RESPECTIVE GOVERNMENTS. DISCUSS THEM. ANDESSENGER TAKE THE NEXT STEPS WHICH SHOULD BE VERY FAST. SPEEDY. BECAUSE TIME IS RUNNING OUT AND WE ALL MUST MOVE FAST.

HRAMANI:

KIM: ONE VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE THAT HE WANTS TO BRING OUT AND HE HAS BEEN VERY OPEN WITH US. HE HAS NOT KEPT ANYTHING BACK. HE WANTS YOU TO KNOW THAT THE ISSUE OFOWS ARE EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. IMPORTANT IN ESTABLISHING THIS CHANNEL. AND TO ACHIEVE THAT HE WANTS MR. HAKIM AND MR. SAMII TO REMAIN BEHIND AND TAKE CARE OF THIS ISSUE AND ALSONE WORDHE GIFT. THE MEDICINE. IN THAT SHIPMENT AND BE READY FOR THE NEXT MOVEMENT.

((INAUDIBLE. EVERYBODY JUMPS IN. ))

IM: OKEN. NOT ALL OF THEM. SOMETHINGIFT.

:ORD: IF WE PICK UP THE2 WE CAN PUT IT ON THE SHIP.

(IM INTERPRETS.

4IM: REMAIN BEHINDANDLE THE TOWS. HE THO FLOOR TO MR.

SAMII TO BRING UP THE POINTS THAT ARE THEREEW WORDS MISSED. ))

hi:

IH THE NAME OF COD. HE HAS TO BRING TO THE ATTENTION OF THE MEETING THAT CERTAIN BASIC ISSUES HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED AND THOSE ISSUES WILL BE .THE ?SPINE? OF OUR RELATIONSHIP AND WE WILL NOT DISCUSS

THEM AGAIN INEW WORDS MISSED. ))

11: NDTape)

4

(( SIDE B I)

III: IS REMARKS WERE MISSED BECAUSE THE TAPE NEEDED TO DE FLIPPED TO THE OTHER

(IM: HE WAY THEY HAVE APPROACHED THE

PROPOSAL... AND I DEO YOUR PATIENCEET TO THE

END OF THE WAY THEY HAVE APPROACHED IT IN THEIR

MIND, THEY CONSIDER THE ISSUE THATFEW WORDS MISSING))

ON ALL THE ITEMS AS FOLLOWS: THE TRANSFER OF

TOWS AND THE EXCHANGE OF INTELLICINCE BETWEEN THE TWO

COUNTRIESEPARATE ISSUE AND AN ISSUE THAT SHOULD

NOT ENTER INTO THE NEXT STAGE THAT HAS BEEN PROPOSED.

THESE ARE THE ISSUES THAT BOTH PARTIES ACREE TO.

((SYNTAX IS NOT CORRECT, BUT HAKIM'S INTERPRETATION

CAN'T BE COMPARED WITH SAMII'S REMARKS BECAUSE OF THE

TAPE BEING FLIPPED. ))

((NORTH ATTEMPTS TO INTERJECT.

ARNED YOU TO STAY COOL. IT'LL JUSTINUTE. 'RTH: I WILL LISTEN.

KIM; THAT'S ALL I WANT YOU TO DO. PLEASE.

Mil ANO BAHRAMANI BOTH TALK:

GENTLEMEN. M COMBINING THE TWO

STATEMENTS TOGETHER. AN NOT TRANSLATE THEM SEPARATELY. FOR INSTANCE. MR. SAMII STARTED TO SAY WHAT THE FOUNDATION. THE BASE OF OUR RELATIONSHIP IS GOING TO BE AND THAT IS THEIR UNDERSTANDING OF OUR INTERPRETATION OF WHAT WE MEANUCCESSFUL. RESPECTFUL VICTORY IN THE WAR... AND I QUESTIONED THEM. "DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE ANSWER YOU HAVE RECEIVED SO FAR IS NOTND ALI EXPLAINED IN DETAIL. HE SAIO THAT TO BE VERY FRANK WITH YOU. WITHOUT PLAIN AND CLEAR INTERPRETATION CF THIS ISSUE WHICH IS THE FOUNDATION OF THIS RELATIONSHIP. THEY ARE NOT OSITION TO HAVE ANY DISCUSSION WITH ANYONE THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO TAKE BACK THE MEANING OF "AN HONORABLEHICH HAVE BEEN THE WORDS OF THE PRESIDENT OF. ND)) TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT MEANS. DOES THAT MEAN THAT SADDAM HUSAYN IS GOING TO BE OUT AND THIS ISUCCESSFUL AND HONORABLE VICTORY?. OR IT MEANS THAT WITH HUSAYN OUT AND WITHOUT- THEtl TAKING ANY MILITARY ACTION. THAT UCCESSFUL VICTORY?; OR DOES IT INCLUDE SUCCESS FOR YOUR SIDE?. DOES THAT MEANILITARY SUCCESS IN THIS?. WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS YOURINTERPRETATION?

AHRAMANI:

*KIM: NTERPRETING)) YOU DON'T HAVE TO ANSWERNOW THI**

IS.VERY F YOU NEED TO DISCUSSPRESIDENT

REAGAN AGAIN ANDLEAR-RESPONSE TO

ITTLE BIT ON THIS. IN OTHER UORDS. WHAT BOTH APE SAYING

IS THAT TO THEM SADDAM HUSAYN HAS TO GO. BUT WHAT ARE THE

WHICH HE GOES. AND WHAT WOULD BE OUR REACTION. DO WE NOTTO TAKE ANYMORE TERRITORY OR IS IT ALRICHT IF THEY TAKEAND PUT MORE PRESSURE OH THE SITUATION? WHAT IS OURWHAT THEY CAN DO WITH, THIS?. -- - -

3RTH; LET ME ANSWER IN GENERAL BECAUSE I DON'TPECIFIC ANSWER FOR YOU. ON'T THINK YOUPECIFIC DEFINITION OF WHAT YOU WOULD CONSIDER VICTORY FOR ME AT THIS POINT. THIS IS WHY OUR RELATIONSHIP IS SO VERY. VERY IMPORTANT.

KIM INTERPRETS.

HRAMANI:

KIM: HE WANTS TO THE BOTTOM LINE OF EVERY THING THAT

THEY ARE TRYINO TO SAY IS THIS THAT WE BOTH AGREE THAT THE FOUNDATION AND BASE OF AN HONORABLE VICTORY MEANS FOR SADDAM TO CO. WE HAVE SAID ENOUGH AND WE BOTH UNDERSTAND THAT. WHAT THEY NEED TO KNOW NOW IS WHAT SHOULD THEY DO FOR US TQ TAKE THE NEXT STEP .TOWARDS THAT AND HOW. YOU SHOULD COME UP AND FOR INSTANCE BANG ON THE TABLE AND SADDAM HUSAYN WILL OO OR WHATEVER. EXPLAIN TO US VERY CLEARLY THE METHOD THAT WE HAVE TO ACHIEVE THIS.

II:

IM: HE WANTS TO LEAVE THAT WITH YOUERY IMPORTANT ISSUE. BECAUSE YOUR ANSWER MAY VERY WELL AFFECT THEIR MOVES IN CONNECTION WITH THEIR OFFENSIVE AND THE KILLING OF THE PEOPLE.

."H: NDERSTAND. AND THAT'S WHY WE RAISED THAT ISSUE IN WASHINGTON,

WHY THE PRESIDENT HAD ME RAISE IT. THE IDEA THAT THERE HAD TO BE AN HONORABLE PEACE FOR THE ISLAMIC REVOLUTIONARY GOVERNMENT OF IRAN.

M INTERPRETS.

TH: WE ALSO RECOGNIZE THAT SADDAM HUSAYN MUST CO. -M INTERPRETS.

CAN NOT TELL YOU EXACTLY DAY BY DAY OR STEP BY STEP. AS I OUTLINE CERTAIN OTHER STEPS BETWEEN US. HOW THAT WOULD CO. YET THE GENERAL OUTLINE OF IT FOLLOWS THOSE STEPSAVE LAST NIGHT

INTERPRETS.

ORTAftLE

CH-LEVEL DIRECT DIALOGUE WITH THE GOVERNMENT OF IRAN INAY THAT OUR PEOPLE ARE EVENTUALLY COMFORTABLET AND THAT YOUR PEOPLE ARE EVENTUAL WI iH IT.

1 INTERPRETS.

HEF THE REST 1HE-ARAD UORLDr 'AS TO WHERE WE ARE- -

Kin INTERPRETS.

STH: UE NEED TO BE ABLE TO ASSURE ARAB GOVERNMENTS THAT THEY ARE NOT THREATENED BY THE ISLAMIC REVOLUTIONARY GOVERNMENT OF IRAN.

AIM INTERPRETS.

iltt HDM CAN UK DO" THAT IP UE CAN'T EVEN TELL THEM UE ARE TALKING TO YOU?

UH INTERPRETS.

UE DIDN'T EVEN HAVE DIPLOMATIC RELATIONS WITH SADDAM HUSAYNOVERNMENT BEFORE THIS WAR BEGAN. WE DIDN'T HAVE DIPLOMATIC RELATIONS. OUR GOVERNMENT AND THEIRS. BUT WE DO TODAY.

KlH INTERPRETS.

tTH: QUITE FRANKLY WE WOULD MUCH RATHER HAVE DIPLOMATIC RELATIONS WITH

YOUR COUNTRY. BUT WE ALL IN THIS ROOM RECOGNIZE WE ARE NOT COING DE ABLE... NEITHER YOU NOR WE CAN DO THAT TOMORROW.

.IN

KNOW THAT WE CANO THE SAUDIS. THEOMANIS. THE

EGYPTIANS. AND THE MOROCCANS ANO TELL THEM THAT

REVOLUTIONARY GOVERNMENT OF IRAN ISHREAT

IM INTERPRETS.

TH: WE CAN DO THAT ONCE WE CAN ACKNOWLEDGE TOTHAT WE AREERY PRIVATE AND SECRET DIALOGUE.

IM INTERPRETS.

TH: WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO TELL THEM THAT THE REAL THREAT TO THEIR

STABILITY AND TO STABILITY IN THE WHOLE REGION. THE REAL THREAT IS THE SOVIET PUPPET IN BAGHDAD.

IM INTERPRETS.

TH: SADDAM HUSAYN CAN NOT EXIST IN POWER WITHOUT THE SUPPORT OF THOSE COUNTRIES.

IM INTERPRETS

< <INND WE KNOW WHO IT IS IN SAUDI ARABIA. FOR EXAMPLE. WHO SUPPORTS SADDAM.

IM: TRANSLATES CAVE'S STATEMENT FOR NORTH, t)

'H BUT UE CAN NOT CO AND DO THAT UNTIL WE REMOVE THE OBStAil EXISTS BETWEEN QUA TWO COUNTRIES.

IM INTERPRETS

H. AND THAT'S WHY THE STEPS I PROPOSED TO YOU LAST NIGHT WERE DESIGNED TO REMOVE THOSf. OBSTACLES AND GET ON VERY. VERY OUICKLYROCEES THAT-WOULD LEAD-TO THE OUTCCME THAT VOU. WANT_AND_ WE WANT._.

maxim interprets.

hakim:

>*orth: ;ave:

i orth: (akim:

((interpreting!) nderstand you correctly that when you refer to those obstacles you are specifically referring.,to the issue of the hostaces?

yeah. yes. olitical ?area?.

let me explain. n persian)) the politics in america((wordor the president

use my analogy of the fire-proof coat for the president.

((inhe obstacles. their main objective is establishing relations with iran. that is the bottom line if the american people support the government of iran. the presidente afraid to say that he wants to support iran. if the president becomes weak the american can hot support hih. it is to our benefit that the president maintains his political credibility. for the protection of the president's political credibility you must: also do something in this regard so our enemies'will not ruin it andeu words missed)). and there won't be anyone in. who will support iran's revolution. you can be sure of that. they emphasized on this yesterday. they said that the president has toire-prcof coat. olitical obstacle.

naudible) )

vkim: neforehand. arrived and brought the

negotiations only to thehostages. the lives of the

hostacespecialthe level we are working

cord: ery simple thing. it should not be made complex. it's very

simple. they eitheror they don't.

kim: they said they understand it.

CORD: OKAY.

only reason they ask this ouestion acain is because they want

to be able to specifically recognize...

i want... that's important because it is the essence of what we are talking about. this issue is so muchurst of laughter by iranians. who were talking in the background. few words missed he hostages. see. this is the relationship between two great countries ue 're talking about here. in this little room these six men have cathered and are making decisions about the fate of two

creat

NORTH' AND WE THOUGHT THAT FOR THE LAST YEARALF THAT ME WERE. STUflOLlNC AS WE WERE. HEADING IN THAT

DIRECTION. WHEN THIS WHOLE DIALOGUE BEGAN. "JJH JANGARLU. WE. AT THE VERY FIRST MEETINGEAR AGO SAID IT IS ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL THAT TERRORISM STOP SO THAT WE CAN HELP PROTECT OUR PRESIDENT AGAINST THE. NEGATIVE ASPECTS OF THIS.

HAKIM INTERPRETS.

WE INSIDE OUR GOVERNMENT HAD AH ENORMOUS DEBATE. ERY ANGRY

DEBATE mSIDE OUR GOVERNMENT OVER WHETHER OR NOT MYME TO SAY. "WE ACCEPT THE ISLAMIC REVOLUTION OF IRAN

HAKIM INTERPRETS.

-iORTH; HE WENT OFF ONE WHOLE WEEKEND AND PRAYED ABOUT WHAT THE ANSWER

SHOULD BE. AND HE CAME BACKEAR AGO WITH THATAVE YOU THAT HE WROTE IN FRONT OF THE BIBLE I CAVE YOU.

HAKIM INTERPRETS.

fORTH: AND HE SAID TO ME. "THISROMISE THAT COD MADE TO ABRAHAM- WHO AH I TO SAY THAT WE SHOULD NOT DO THIS?"

'AKIM INTERPRETS.

ORTH: AND THAT IS WHY WHEN THE TWO MORE HOSTACES WERE SEIZED IN BEIRUT. ENT IN TORESIDENT WHO WAS IN DEEP DESPAIR. AND THE ONLY REASON I AM HERE TODAY IS BECAUSE HE FIRST OF ALL WAS CONVlNCEO THAT THERE ARE many EVENTS WHICH HAPPENED THAT ARE BEYOND YOUR CONTROL. AND EECOND HE KNOWS WHAT THE INTENTIONS OF THE SOVIETS ARE REGARDING THE INTEGRITY AND SOVEREIGNTY OF IRAN.

AKIM INTERPRETS

KIM

WANTS TO CET ON WITH THE POINTS.

Ol-JTERl-RETINO-) BEFORE CETTING INTO THE SIX POINTS THAT THEY ARE CO.'NO TO PRESENT HE WANTS YOU TO CLEARLY UNDERSTAND THAT THESE POINTS DO NOT REPRESENT THE FACT THAT WE ARE NOT PREPARED TO CHANGE THEM OR BE FLEXIBLE. HE WANTS YOU TO KNOW THAT IT IS NOT AN UNCHANGEABLE SITUATION. THE SAME WAY THAT THEY RECOGNIZE THE POINTS THAT YOU HAVE RAISED APE NOT YCUR UNCHANGEABLE POSITION

E WANTS TO PECOMMEND THAT WE DOTH TAKE TlC

if^'ES ZHAT KAVE HEARD BACK T0 0UH GOVERNMENTS AND COME UP

AIR LIST THAT WILL FULFILL THE REQUIREMENTS OF DOTH

COUNTRIES AND THAT SHOULD BE THE SPINE OF OUR WORK "

Mil:

T xpect

HAKIM: INTERPRETINC))THEVIMETABLE. NOT THE EQUIPMENT,IMETABLE FOR THE THEV ARE

SETTING I'M COMING BACK TO WHERE YOU WERE

ALMOST GETTING READY TO CO THROUGH THE ROOF. THEY ARE GOING TO REACH AN AGREEMENT FOROWS. I WILL STAY HERE. AND EVERYTHING THAT GOES WITH" TOWS.

*ORTH: NAUDIBLE) )

HAKIM: OR OKAY? THAT'S GOING TO BE SET BEHIND US WHILE WE ARE STILL HERE.

1QRTH; ALRIGHT, ECOND NOW. EAN...

AKIM: WE UILL SAY WHAT IS GOING TO BE. JUST BE PATIENT. WOULD YOU LEARN WHAT TO DO WHAT THE

ORTH: VE COT AN

AKIM: FOR ONCE BE AN IRANIAN. PLEASE. WE LEAVE THE VERY LAST

ORTH: PLEASE CARRY ON

AKIM: LET'S PUT THIS (EXPLETIVE) OUT AND CET TO THE CORE OF IT. THE CORE

IS. ..

WTH: TIMETABLE FOR THE TRANSFER OF?

RTH:IM:

*TH:CRD:

IM:

ORD:

TH;

THE LIST THAT WERE GIVEN TO ALI. THENITS'S. AND ALL THAT (STUFF). AND THEY DO NOT ACCEPT THE... AND THEY ARE PUTTING THE SPARE PARTS FOR THE HAUK MISSILES IN THAT LIST. AND THEY DO NOT ACCEPT YOUR SUGGESTION THAT YOU ARE GOING TO FIND UHAT OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE THE VARIOUS ITEMS AND DIRECT THEM. THEY UANT TO BE DEALINC DIRECTLY, UITH YOU OR THE GROUPS THAT YOU UOULD PUT TOGETHER. THEY DON'T UANT KANGARLU IN IT. THEY DON'T UANT CHORBANIFAR IN IT. THEV UANT TO CO ABOUT THAT. THEY DON'T UANT EQUIPMENT. THEYIME SCHEDULE. ALI ADDED TO THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT SECORD SHOULD LOOK INTO THEN APPROVE.

IS IT UNDERSTOOD THAT WE DO NOT HAVE SOME OF THOSE ITEMS?

THEY UNDERSTANDEW WORDS MISSED.E DON'T WANT TO USE OURESTERDAY YOU SAID KANGAFLU AND CHORBANIFAR AND OTHERS. AS AW EXAMPLE

I DON'T CARE WrO IT IS. WHOEVER THEY WANT.

HE SAID.* "I DPrJ'T UANT ANY OTHER COUNTRY. JUST US."

'ECE THAT OUTLINES HOU UEET THERE FROM HERE?

YES.

IS THAT IN YOUR COMPUTER?

KIM: AVE RESOLVED THIS. LET'S CET TO THE POINT. THIS MAN HAS TO CO. THIS IS SOME TH INC THAT WE CAN DO

MI NTERPRETING)) POINT NUMBER TWO. IRAN WILL INFLUENCE THE RELEASE OF ONE OF THE HOSTAGES.

Mil:

KIM: NTERPRETING)) TWO THE RELEASE OF THAT ONE HOSTAGE THAT HAS

RTH: WHAT ONE HOSTAGE?

KIM: NUMBER TWO I SAID ONE HOSTAGE WOULD BE RELEASED. YOU COT THAT. RTH: OKAY.

KIM: HEN. AND HE SAID AFTER THE EXECUTION OF ITEM ONE. FOR INSTANCE WE SAID IT'S GOING TO BE TWO OR THREE WEEKS. AND I TOLD HIM THAT THIS THE WRONG APPROACH. SO HE KNOWS THAT.

Mil:

RTH:

A* IM:

CORRECTION IN ITEM NUMBER TWO. ITEM TWO, RELEASE OF THE ONE HOSTAGE. WILL BE EFFECTED AFTER SUBMISSION OF THE TIMETABLE WE TALKED IN ITEM NUMBER ONE AND ALSO SHIPMENT OF THE HAWK SPARE PARTS. WHICH THEY WILL HAVE ALREADY ESTABLISHED THE CREDIT FOR IT. IS TWO CLEAR? THEN WE'LL MOVE TO THREE.

*rll ZZll^lzJ UZ? T0 makE DAtwD0WN D PLAN FOR OBTAININGTKATND NOT

Tm" RELE*SE OF ONE HOSTAGE AFTER WE PROVIDE THAT TIMETABLE AND 'HE PLAN AND WE SHIP THE HAWK SPARE PARTS

FOR WHICH THEY WILL PROVIDE THE CREDIT IN ADVANCE

(( END TAPE IS. SIDE 3

Original document.

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